Posted by: flashlight_on_roaches ()
Date: April 01, 2015 03:09AM





Wai Lana claimed 248 volunteers worked a total of 145,000 hours in 2004. Ex-devotees have called this "volunteer" work nothing short of slave labor. I'd venture a guess that most of these 248 volunteers were also involved in Mike Gabbard's 2004 campaign for Congress. More on that in a moment.


VOLONTERS IS A GOOD NAME FOR SLAVE DEVOTIONAL SERVICE ..WHERE the Butlers make
millions $$$
Many of those 248 volunteers (and, I could probably name more than half of them) live a hand to mouth existence. Some are on public assistance with no money to pay for basic necessities like car registration and insurance (from public records involving cult vehicles), yet they are expected to purchase Wai Lana products, shop at Down to Earth, and make donations to their guru, Chris Butler. They were also ordered to campaign for Mike Gabbard and make large political contributions. Where did they get the cash? Perhaps SIF funds or some other source of money funneled to them. Note that Wai Lana denies any political involvement. Were these same methods used to propel Tulsi Gabbard into her seat in Congress? Like Father Like Daughter, at least when both bow at the feet of Chris Butler.

Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: April 06, 2015 06:21A

EXCELLENT EXPLANATION HOW FROM A SIMPLE VISIT TO A MEDITATION RETREAT ONE CAN BECOME A SLAVE TO A CULT THAT WILL MAKE YOU WORK and work and work some more .
And who is getting the $$$ ..the guy at the top ....others gets the crumbs from his table .

It's also total bullshit that the Butler cult is prepared to take care of people. Countless ex members of the cult complained of working long hours without help, housing, medical care or food. Many were abandoned when projects shut down or Butler left town. Many people lived on welfare or neglected families to "serve" Butler.

At first you will be drawn in by the sweet kirtans and incense. Slowly you will be vetted and indoctrinated. They have to convince you that the world is a horrible place where you are powerless unless you surrender to them, and only them. You will feel a part of something very big and important. You will never know where all your efforts and money are really going. You will be led to believe that you are saving the world. In reality, you will just be filling the pockets of frauds. IMO. Going clear, indeed.

If you study cults, you will recognize the drill.

Posted by: flashlight_on_roaches ()
Date: April 26, 2015 04:56AM

PICTURE and links to newspaper articles can be found on page 488 of this forum
Reading this post we are reminded that this Butler cult member Patrick Bowler
who was given the name PARAMAHANSA DAS was at one time a major drug dealer .
Rama Ranson as confirms that Mr Bowler was paying the expenses of his father when he was a full-time cook for Butler ...How much knowledge did Butler know about the drug dealing of his disciple Paramahansa?What at would the friends of Tulsi Gabbard in Congress think of the "Hindu cult" and of the spiritual leader of that cult if they knew that major drug dealers were a one time part of the cult ??

Revealed: the Kiwis behind a billion-dollar drug empire
I had recently written about cult member Patrick Bowler then along comes a highly competent journalist who confirms my research and much, much more!

EXCLUSIVE: Once, they ran the world's biggest dope-smuggling ring. But after giving evidence against their violent criminal associates and doing 15-year stints in some of America's toughest jails, two New Zealanders have returned home to escape their lives of crime. This is their story - a story that has never before been told...


PROPERTY, ART AND CASH SEIZURES

...Timewell also had to give up millions of dollars in bank accounts as well as real estate and currency in various countries throughout the world, his lawyer told his sentencing hearing.

"We were having auctions for years, trying to get rid of his art deco collection," Ryan said.

A transcript of his sentencing states Timewell arranged through his counsel to surrender to the government $2,089,000 in Swiss francs which hadn't initially been declared, that amount being the remainder of the proceeds. Timewell claimed he believed that the funds had been removed by Bowler.

...This week Bowler, who lives in Auckland, told the Star-Times in a statement he had 'paid my fine and did my time' and had I lost his partner and was separated from my children and grandchildren during their formative years...

And for all the millions they gave up, there's a chance someone has something more stashed away somewhere safe.

Posted by: VoxVeritasVita Das ()
Date: May 18, 2015 01:07PM

Was there a link between the cult of Butler and Tulsi Gabbard this ARTICLE IN THE HAWAII FREE PRESS does a good job of investigation
Please read the full post of VOXVERITAS DAS on page 491 of this forum


"Tulsi Gabbard's Cult Tied to "Billion Dollar Drug Empire"-- Funded Taliban
By Selected News Articles @ 3:27 PM :: 218 Views :: Congressional Delegation, Military, Drugs” Sunday May 17 2015

[www.hawaiifreepress.com]
The Sunday Star-Times and Timaru Herald of New Zealand are reporting the story of two drug kingpins tied to the so-called "Science of Identity" Hare Krishna cult whose members reportedly include Hawaii State Senator Mike Gabbard and US Rep Tulsi Gabbard.

IS THIS WHAT WE ARE WITNESSING IN THE CHRIS BUTLER CULT?

On this forum, many have shared that Butler has been using hypnosis from the very beginning of his career as a "HOLY MEN " calling his process psychic sleep . Wai Lana as made a recording of "NIDRA YOGA" a old Indian yoga form of hypnosis ...

Quote
Leonard Cohen on Suspicious Holy Men
I have always had a great suspicion of charismatic holy men. I think it is very very dangerous to hook up in a certain way with these guys. A lot of them are just head hunters. They know how to do it. It’s not the content of their presentation that is of any significance. They know how to do it. They know how to gather people around them. That’s what their gig is. They make you think that something important is going on and you’re hooked. I was always suspicious because I was able to do it in my own small way. I was always suspicious of that kind of activity. I know it can be done. It’s just a kind of gift, like hypnosis. I was a very good hypnotist when I was very young. It doesn’t necessarily indicate any special concern for others, or any sense of charity in your soul. It just represents the exercise of a gift, usually for your own mean purposes. I have always been suspicious of holy men and that gift.
– Leonard Cohen, speaking to author Pico Iyer in April 1998

THE MAIN REASON FOR REPOSTING OLD POSTS OF THIS FORUM IS TO PUT IN ONE PLACE
MOST OF THE VERY IMPORTANT TESTIMONIALS OF EX-CULT MEMBERS AND THE MOST IMPORTANT
INFORMATION REGARDING THE ABUSES OF THE BUTLER CULT.

This testimonial is a very good example of what children had to go through growing
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: eigenerherr ()
Date: July 07, 2015 07:45PM

Hi,
I'm a ex-child member of the Chris Butler cult, or SOI. My name's Lalita Mann, my dad is Hare Rama Das (Harvey Mann) and mum Jamuna Dasi (Josie Mann). My dad is one of the musical ones from SOI, doing most of Chris Butlers and Wai Lana's music in the past. My brother and sister and cousins (Pedersen family) are also involved. I got out 20 years ago, ended up having to cut off contact from my parents for a while, and then got in contact with them recently, but all the secrecy and craziness was still there (I was hoping they'd moved on), and I am done with it all. I'm sick of Chris Butler hiding behind a veil of secrecy and lies while many innocent people suffer (mostly the kids that didn't choose this life). I recently released this statement to my Facebook page, which has meant they have stopped talking to me. Which is the norm when you dare to say anything bad about the group and Chris Butler:
It is with a heavy heart that I write this. What I have to say is not easy, and it’s why I’ve not said anything for over 20 years. Writing this will come at great personal cost, one that I’ve struggled with the last couple of months, with many sleepless nights. But I’ve made the decision to speak up because the cost of not speaking up is far greater than my own personal loss.

I want to preface what I say next with this. I do not believe my parents or siblings are bad people. I love them all more than they realise, this is why doing has been so difficult. I’ve never, ever wanted to cause them any pain, but by keeping this secret, it has been hurting me over and over again for a very long time, and I can’t do that anymore. I just want this out so I don’t have to keep ahold of it anymore.

In the early 70’s my parents joined the ISKCON (International Society of Krishna Consciousness - or Hare Krishna's in layman's terms), living a life based loosely on the Hindu faith. The founder of that movement passed away in 1977, a month before I was born, without leaving a successor and the foundation split off into different factions. My parents decided to follow a self-appointed guru by the name of Chris Butler, aka Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa, aka Srila Prabhupada. I was brought up in the new group, called the Science of Identity Foundation (SOI from hereon in) from birth. As were my brother and sister, my cousins and a large group of other children across Australia, New Zealand, the US, UK and Philippines.

As a child growing up in SOI, I had no freedom, no space to grow emotionally. I was told how to dress, what to think, and there were serious consequences to not conforming to this. I saw kids refused access to their biological parents, and who were told that their parents were demons because the parents didn’t want to be part of SOI. And while I don’t have proof, I am fairly certain that some kids were kept hidden from their biological, non-follower parents for this reason. I’ve seen other kids be emotionally and verbally abused for asking questions and trying to speak out. One person I know was told by his mother that her obligation to him as a parent ended the day he spoke out. There is an unspoken rule that if you step out of line, say anything bad about Chris Butler, your whole family will cut you off and disown you, and that is what is probably going to happen to me by writing this. I hope not. But that is the most likely personal cost I will have for speaking out.

SOI and Chris Butler do not want their existence known. There are groups of followers who search online 24 hours a day (considered part of their devotional service), shutting down anything that is seen as threatening Chris Butler’s credibility, usually by threatening to sue for defamation. This also happens on the forums of their various forays into mainstream media. I've seen my own mother doing this as a moderator on some of their forums (little ninjai I think). This has happened a few times before and it will happen again. As it stands now with my family, they are secretive around me, to the point they hide their Facebook friends list on their profiles from me (even though their friends were also my friends growing up) because I am now an outsider. I wasn’t invited to my sister’s wedding, or my cousin’s, and the most hurtful thing is being told that people who my family and extended family, but don’t even know I exist. I’m a dirty little secret all because I went out and made a life for myself, something most parents would normally encourage and be proud of.

There is a lot of psychological abuse within the group. Parents are taught to disconnect from their kids, that family is just a temporary state, so to not get emotionally attached. As a child growing up in that it leaves you feeling rudderless and lost, and on top of that you have these incredibly strict rules. Everything you do is monitored including letters to friends, diaries, posts online, and if it doesn’t conform, you have to face the consequences. I know personally, when I was 17, I had written down in my diary that I had doubts, that I wanted to leave SOI. My mum read this and I overheard her tell my dad loudly that she didn't want me in the house anymore because I didn't respect their beliefs. I didn’t know anyone outside of the group, so you can imagine the impact that threat had on me, not to mention the violation of trust by having her reading through my private thoughts and punishing me for having them. And I am not the only person who has faced this. It’s everywhere. Depression runs rampant, but because therapy is seen as an outside influence, the kids who need it are denied that too. I have heard of people taking their own lives, or turning to drugs to cope. Instead of being shown compassion, they were seen as too weak and looked down on.

We were also denied an education. I was one of the lucky ones, in that I got a public school education from years 2 to 5 (age 8 - 11). I was taken out after that, and had to fight to be allowed access to a correspondence course that would give me my year 10 (basic high school) equivalency. Most SOI kids get even less useable education than that. After I left the group I worked my butt off putting myself through University preparatory classes, audio school and finally gaining a post grad diploma in acoustics. And while I am so proud of that achievement, I know that the damage has been done, and I can’t overcome my upbringing enough to free myself of the thought that I’m doing something wrong fighting for a better life for myself, because it’s outside of SOI. So I stick to a job I have no love for, that was the only job I could get when I first got out because I had no education, because ultimately I’m not strong enough to completely overcome my upbringing. No amount of education now will allow me to feel like I’ve caught up or that I will ever be smart enough to compete with everyone else, because it took me so long to catch up, I feel like I have nothing to offer. It’s really hard to live with that sometimes.

As I said, most kids that are growing up in SOI have no education. When they are old enough, they are shipped off to a boarding school in the Philippines (usually between 12-14 years old) where they are subjected to extreme living conditions, which one can only assume is there to break and mould them into more compliant followers, and they see very little of their own families after that. I believe the schools are run by an ex-military follower. It was only recently that it clicked how wrong that actually is. I was conditioned to think these things are normal.

Women in SOI are taught we are less than men. We’re told what to wear (long skirts/dresses, long sleeve tops, hair back, no makeup – dress up a bit too “nicely” and you’re verbally abused) and we wait for a husband. Kids are segregated at a young age, and we’re not allowed to communicate with the opposite sex without a chaperone. This means there are a lot of arranged marriages, girls as young as 16 were married off to 30+ men they barely knew. For myself, it took me a lot of years to be able to have something resembling normal relationships with people.

Children are expected to do everything in service of Chris Butler, including working hours that would border on slave labour. I have had friends who were working 11 hours out of 24 when they were 17, washing Chris Butler’s clothes and preparing his food, and it was all free labour. Kids as young as 14 are labouring for him. For free. I'm fairly certain this breaks a number of child labour laws.

SOI are also extremely homophobic, to the point that when I was younger, I saw followers encouraging children to go around putting stickers on random parked cars that said things like “GAY – Got Aids Yet” and other lovely things like that. I heard lecture after lecture of Chris Butler saying how much he hated gay people and egging all of his followers to hate them too…

Chris Butler is the leader solely responsible for all decisions made within the group. He demands complete blind obedience from his followers, and they follow him without question and sacrifice the well-being of their children readily in order to serve him. In return he berates and verbally abuses his followers for the tiniest infractions and constantly demands money from them so he can keep up his lavish lifestyle (my parents were giving him money even though they could barely feed and clothe us). He tells people he is their only way to God, and that he is so close to God he can choose the moment of his death, and yet he has a house lined with tin foil, special kitchens with tasters to ensure he isn’t poisoned, special air conditioning in his homes, teams of followers called “Air patrol” that sniff the air for toxins to ensure that where he travels to (always in a mask to protect himself from the toxins) is always free from life threatening toxins (did I mention the toxins??)… This is the man who is supposedly so unafraid of death he can choose when it will happen. Right, because all evidence supports that... not. I also heard him speak once about his reasons for following the path he did. To cut a long and boring story short, it was because he was dumped by a girl for rich guy, and he couldn’t take that (I’m sure it had to do with him hating to feel someone was better than him) so I spent years of my life oppressed for being a woman because of this… person. I would like to use stronger words but I won’t. It just makes me so angry thinking about what he has gotten away with for the past 40 years and what people refuse to open their eyes to or question. For this reason I believe he is an evil and dangerous man who will do anything to protect and expand the empire he has built for himself.

On top of everything are recent allegations that SOI was funded by a drug cartel. I would have laughed it off, but I knew of one of the main players and I know that he had drug charges pending against him all the way back in the 80’s. With everything that I now know, a lot of things are starting to make a lot more sense. The hypocrisy of it all is just terrifyingly mind blowing.

This is a deeply secretive, subversive group, I cannot say this enough. I haven’t worked up enough courage yet to speak out about this in public, which is why I am starting with you, my friends. It has been a huge step to even say this much.
When I left SOI at age 19, I had to literally leave everything I knew behind me and start again. I didn't know anything, I had no education, no support, and I didn't know how to ask for help, because I was taught not to. It has been a long, hard struggle to become the person that I am today.

I’ve had a lot of people over the years tell me I’m brave and strong, but I don’t feel that I am. Writing this was terribly hard because in spite of everything I’ve written above, I feel so much guilt over revealing the existence of this group. I know as soon as I hit “post” I will be switching everything off including my phone because I am terrified of the response. The conditioning I grew up with is so strong, that even now, 20 years after getting out, I am still terrified of the backlash that is coming for speaking out. That everyone I know will abandon me because I was honest about my feelings and my experiences. The trauma is so strong, that seeing a picture of Chris Butler recently had me shaking and feeling ill. Even just hearing his name is enough to trigger a pounding headache. I haven’t slept properly in a couple of months now because life has a way of swinging back around and making you face things you previously weren’t ready/able to face. That's what's happened now and it's time.

There is so much I want to say but this is already excessively long. I just had to get this off my chest. I have no doubt that after exposing the existence of this group and what they do, that my family will cut off contact from me, and/or send me a bunch of abusive messages. I just hope that one day they wake up to what is going on and stop following Chris Butler. They don’t have to give up their faith. There is a lot of beauty in the Hindu faith, but he has corrupted it and turned it into something awful, secretive and destructive, and if I can have a hand in stopping him, I will do that. I’m a survivor of Chris Butler's cult, and I’m not going to stay silent about it anymore.

-----

Posted by: eigenerherr ()
Date: July 20, 2015 05:49AM

MORE FROM THAT BRAVE EIGENERHEER AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF ANYONE THAT TRY TO TALK ABOUT THE ABUSES OF THE CULY


Obviously my family haven't taken it very well, and I'm trying to come to terms with the fact that I'll probably never see them or my nephew's again. I can't and don't want to force them to see things from my point of view, but it does become very frustrating that they can't see the obvious hypocracy of Chris Butler's regime. I stupidly thought we could have some sort of relationship if I just ignored that side of things, but then one day it occurred to me that for my own child, I would have to write in my will that if something happened to his father and I, my parents could never have unsupervised access to him, because I wont subject him to a life of following Chris Butler. And that's what sparked all of this, because there is just something so very very wrong with having to do that.

I'm currently reeling for an abusive text from my brother for speaking out, calling me childish for "blaming my parents for what is wrong in my life". Pretty sure I didn't do that, but that's the little narrative they have written for themselves in order to not actually deal with what I have said in relation to Chris Butler and what he has created. My parents have cut me off because I am s***ting all over their happy memories by "reading things on the internet" and making them fit with the fantasies of my horrible childhood (they like to tell me I'm crazy because I said they are child abusers for almost driving me to anorexia and suicide, but heck, what would I know). So it might be a week before my next video while I take some time to just focus on the truly happy, simple and free life that I have carved out for myself.

MORE TESTIMONIALS FROM EIGENERGER
The most touching part for many reading this forum is that young lady did not know what a hug was like till she was 20 years old ..All the love was directed toward the GURU and none for their own children.


It has been enlightening watching The Children of the Hare Krishna's documentary. I don't know why, but I always thought SOI was so different from ISKCON, maybe as part of the numerous lies we were told, but after watching that it really hit home. It was the same thing, just different packaging. Right down to being forced to watch The Day After (that frigging movie traumatised me for years), to rubbing people's face's in urine (we had cats, and that's how we punished them for their accidents, I though that was just normal until today), to realising that the main teaching was to separate parents from their children. I have a number of painful memories from my childhood. The first was my parents telling me they took me to see Chris Butler when I was a baby. As I sat there merrily chewing on his newspaper, he laughed and said not to get too attached because children will inevitably leave. I thoroughly believed this was why they refused to connect to me emotionally. Another memory was being told that as a small child, one of the slightly older boys rescued me from under a horse while we lived at the temple in NZ. It distressed me wondering why I was (being younger than 4) allowed to just wander around alone around farm animals without supervision. I could have been trampled to death. They just thought it was funny. And finally, the lack of physical affection. I remember being hugged for the first time... at the age of 20. I didn't actually know what to do because I'd never been hugged before, so I just stood there with my arms by my side while my non-cult friend tried to hug me. I always thought it was a failure of my parents. But now, seeing that documentary, I've realised it was the whole culture of that group, and I can't even tell you how angry that makes me feel. What AC Bhaktivedante and Chris Butler took from us can never really be quantified. And for what really? So ACB could create a religion where he got to be God, or so Chris Butler can have a mansion with endless footbaths and personal slaves?? I can't help wondering when do I get justice? When do I get to see Chris Butler and my parents and everyone else who willingly participates in this abuse, still, be held accountable for their actions. I'm trying hard to let go of this anger, because I know it'll just end up burning me out, but it's just really hard not to feel the anger.

Posted by: jaggedguru ()
Date: September 08, 2015
ANOTHER TERRIBLE WASTE OF ONES LIFE IN THE BUTLER CULT
ANOTHER TERRIBLE STORY OF PARENTS LOVING AND SERVING BUTLER AND NOT GIVING ATTENTION TO THEIR KIDS .

I am also backing up the statements of eigenerherr and Rama Das (slave name)
I was born into this cult, I am second generation.
I watched as my parents minds got slowly taken from them by Chris Butler.
I am from 3 broken families because of all the internal arranged marriages within the cult.
As a child I were neglected, physically abused, spiritually blackmailed, not educated, made to work as a slave.
All this for "devotional service". I was made to think the only way to achieve happiness is to be serving and thinking about how to please the guru Chris Butler, 24/7.

I was taught not to love my family members because they were "demons" "karmis" "materialists" because they believed different.
I was taught to operate on a level of secrecy and to not divulge any information I had that could put any doubt about Chris Butler in anyone's mind.
do not question. follow. obey. serve. surrender.
I have bowed down and kissed the feet of Chris Butler.
I have tried to recruit many youths into the group, some successfully.

I was born and raised a slave.
I am free now. there are others like me, we are growing and we are angry.
SOI is on its swan song. they will die in my lifetime.
It is only a matter of time.


I have attended the indoctrination schools on two continents.
I too have lost my family for having voiced out how I felt about it when i grew older, cut out cold. as ice. nothing. just done. this is not a normal group.
It is as evil and manipulative as it can get.
people within the group have killed themselves.
People within this group have surrendered their identities to be given another one by the leader, also a form of spiritual suicide.
this is all classic cult member mind control

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