But of course, if there is no perfect authority, we return to the basics - yama - universal moral principles. But activists will tell you that based on the teachings of Bhagavad Gita, a devotee can sometimes fail. Comment that it may be sporadic.

Well, then the question arises: why is this notorious "guru" taking money from a drug dealer? Well, they will say that they are sanctified because they were offered to a pure devotee. Hmm....

But Hari-Bhakti-vilasa says that Visnu accepts devotion, not money. But Chris Butler did not accept or give Hari-Bhakti-vilasa reading. But Hari-Bhakti-vilasa was created at the personal request of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Are you saying that "acharya" Chris Butler quickly got rid of Caitanya Mahaprabhu's personal wish 500 years after his appearance?????

Finally, it remains to prove that a given guru does not follow his own teachings.

"Jalpa, mothe*fucker..." "You fuc*ing hypocrite. Oh, you're offensive because you use the word "fuc*ing". Wait a minute, honey, your "guru" used the word "fuc*ing" 449 times in 1000 lectures. Including the terms "fuc*ing pope" "fuc*ing president"...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2024 08:19AM by Culthusiast.

The term Avadhuta or "Paramahamsa." in Sanskrit is often used to (justify) odd behavior in so-called saintly figures. We've all heard the tales of assorted holy personalities that behave in seemingly unsaintly ways but still get pegged as saints.

I always struggle with this aspect of these cults. They, on the one hand, ask that all manner of rules and ideologies be followed, but then there are the "exceptions." and it's usually just something that amounts to charisma and ability on the part of these "mad saints" to continue exhibiting bipolar-like, schizophrenic, or otherwise mental-illness spectrums but because it has some element of whatever god they believe in cranked up to 11, it miraculously "ok".

Authority is assigned in these cults by groups of people agreeing on sets of ideals and rules surrounding either a set of scriptures or personalities. Those same groups of people that create the dynamic of authority surrounding these things will then also dictate the punishments for those who go against the agreed-upon symbol of authority.

So effectively, if a group of people agrees that money is worth something, or Hitler is awesome, or Butler is the ticket to god—then that's what everyone follows. Those that do not subscribe to it, or even show ample proof or call out specific oddities that would never be considered as sustainable and functionally "normal" for society (An entire world shaving their head and jumping around singing random Hindu songs or supporting a reclusive white dude in Hawaii), are considered by the group as a "threat". No matter how dysfunctional the cult gets, they stand by and use the mechanism of fanatical adherence to what simply amounts to be agreed-upon symbols of authority.

Inherently, singing Sanskrit words like "Krishna", which means black, has no power. There is no verifiable mechanism by which "offering" food to a plastic, stone, metal, or wood statue of an interpretation of some mythical god has any conversion properties to make it a "purified" food.

So, really, after all the circumambulating of Tulsi plants, rambling on plastic japa beads, and any number of useless rituals, is it any surprise that in 40+ years, an adherent to this cult has not made any substantial or verifiable "advancement"? OR that such rituals simply fall away after some time, and the average 40+ year adherent simply develops or makes up their own "seva" and their own versions of the rituals that basically appeal to them or are more in line with their sustainable expression?

This then begs the question: Aside from a sense of "belonging" that such groups provide (as long as you follow their rules and ideology), and the inherent joy that one gets from activities like singing, dancing, eating food together, etc—What iota of benefit does it serve to believe that crazy-ass Siddhswarupananda, who told you that you're not the body and should worship a blue hindu puranic diety, is some conduit to "salvation"?

I read ISKCON versions of Bhagavatam or Charitamrita, and they are not any different from many pre- and post-ISKCON available versions of these texts in wide translation since colonial India. Books like Reincarnation Explained and Who Are You (suspected to have been mostly authored by Tusta Krishna Das anyway) don't offer a unique spectrum of information compared to any other Eastern texts. Not to mention, as I've suggested before, there is no realistic and sustainable or functional way to actually practice the ideology of Atma-vidya. You can say Aham Brahmasmi all you want. Still, it will not change that you are fundamentally a physical, material being with a material mind and material senses. As long as you have a brain in between your skull, you can self-talk/be conscious/aware. YOU NEED THAT PIECE OF GRAY MATTER BETWEEN YOUR EARS to make sense of ideas like atma-vidya.

I understand that it can be a useful coping mechanism for many to "disassociate" and pretend that they are some "eternal soul", but realistically, are you not mostly just bullshitting yourself?

And is it that horrible to imagine that life and consciousness developed incremental complexity? Systems organize, adapt, and express all manners of evolved functions ALL THE TIME. And that in itself is pretty darn wonderful without pretending that you are a 12-year-old cow-heard village girl from medieval India who helps a blue (so random) god have dalliances with his aunty? Or a cowherd boy, a parent, a friend, or a blade of grass in some fictional "cow heaven" some poet invented? Again, this is not a critique of "god" or the existence of a higher "source" or power. Just a rational observation using my god-given brain, if that suits better.

The above sounds like the thinking of simple people from a long time ago that had nothing to do with modern reality and knowledge. We don't have to say that "god", meaning a higher creative source, does not exist. We do not have to throw the baby out with the bath water just because we admit that this particular god is a load of cultural nuance. A relic of myths and stories written for amusement, as vehicles for wisdom, ritual, ethics, and morals... BUT, we have absolutely earned the right to dispose of old-world ideas that no longer serve a purpose beyond giving "authority" to that which has none.

Faith, generally, at least in cults like this, asks us to isolate our information sources and only read and follow the words of some very fractional ideology. This may work within a very small dynamic (100-1000 people max), but ultimately cracks and splinters.

But to answer your question XKRISHNA, yes, definitely, this cult dictates that Butler is the "one" and his words are final. HOWEVER, I have noticed that Bodhayan maharaj, a Gaudiya Math guru, has been invited on occasion to speak at SIF centers, for example. This 100% would not be allowed back in the day. so perhaps, as I have observed, the dynamic has fractured and devotees want to hear from others and acknowledge that Butler is not the only "one". OR, which is more likely and has also been explained on this forum: Bodhayan has probably NEVER met Butler in person. The so-called seeming inclusion of ISKCON and Gaudiya Math members in assorted SIF centers has likely resulted from a calculated effort to gain support for Tulsi Gabbard from the wider "Hindu" community. Also, the history of the founding of the so-called WVA, World Vaishnava Association (which is a misnomer since it pretty much only included Bengali/Chaitanya Vaishnavas—and not the well-established Vaishnava sects of India and abroad) was a way for SIF to try to find a "place" in the larger, growing Gaudiya cults around the world. As the internet started to gain traction, Butler quickly realized that his image would be exposed eventually and that he needed to "fit in" to the larger context of where the global cult of Gaudiya vaishnavasim was heading. what better way than to send Tusta Krishna Das, his right-hand man, to India to vouch for Butler to become a founding member of the WVA? What with some modest donations and never needing to actually show up in person (while ancient gaudiya gurus from all around the globe made it to the founding ceremonies even in their 100th year). Where was Butler while his brain-cancer-ridden proxies were showing up in jeans on the other side of the globe to represent the representative of god on earth? Well, he was surfing and watching Wai Lana do downward dog of course! What else?

RUN.

"that unhappy mixture of insanity and ignorance called "faith. ""
—Robert Greene Ingersol

And another from a different Robert Greene:
"too much respect for other people's wisdom will make you depreciate your own".

And here we have Tulsi Gabard partnering with the very "elite" she has so many issues with. Funny how she went from "Jai Gurudev" to failed politician, FOX news sweetheart and now [www.msn.com]

Gabbard said she was partnering with X on a series of short films to share stories of people "whose voices are silenced."

Wonder what voices she's gonna represent on behalf of her "gurudev".


And some quality fear-mongering from her holiness. God forbid we use our judicial system to stop a criminal from becoming a president again. I kind of hope that Trump wins and makes Tulsi Gabbard his vice president. It'll be like a remake of dumb and Dumber.:
[www.msn.com]

Just in case you want to fast from grains this year, here are the official dates based on mythological 4-armed, blue-balled God. [timesofindia.indiatimes.com]


Gotta love the comments of folks calling her out on her hypocrisy, rubbing her shoulders with the total elitist- billionaire-Epstein-warmongers-Don't-give-a-fuck-about-anything-Xcept-the-money crowd.

[twitter.com]

Meanwhile, "brahminical" cast-oppressive sentiments have been butt-hurt once again:

[www.reuters.com]

[nwasianweekly.com]

How's that for "free speech": [news.yahoo.com]

RUN.

Good things to read so as not to dry up your common sense:

[www.jstor.org]

[www.academia.edu]

[onlinelibrary.wiley.com]

[eprints.soas.ac.uk]

[digitalcommons.bard.edu]

[www.oxfordbibliographies.com]

From wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabir#Criticism:

Criticism
According to an article in The Independent, a former member has described SIF's teachings as "virulently homophobic, often anti-Islamic and misogynist...they were forced to worship Butler, who is considered to be akin to a God."[10] The same article described SIF as a "secretive cult".[10]

A 2022 Insider article has also referred to SIF as "an abusive 'cult'" and mentions how Butler teaches that "homosexuality is evil" and how his teachings are not to be questioned by members.[11] Butler denies he has ever said anything hateful.[11]

Similarly, an NY Magazine article described Butler as teaching "a virulent homophobia, skepticism of science, and the dangers of public schools."[12]

In March of 2004, a query about the SIF group was posted to the Cult Education Forum, which led to many ex-members and those affected by the group to speak out and give testimony. Twenty years later (2024), it remains the highest-ranking forum on the platform, with thousands of posts. Many of the posts verify negative sentiment about the group and its founder, Chris Butler, AKA Jagad Guru Siddhswarupanda Paramahamsa. Many posts also attack the person of former US Presidential Candidate Tulsi Gabbard, a lifelong follower and disciple of Chris Butler.

Common grievances with Christ Butler and his Science of Identity Foundation discussed on the forum include:

1. Connections to drug money. 2. Connections to international money laundering. 3. Involvement with politics. 4. Mistreatment of disciples and followers. 5. Illegal boarding schools for boys (and another for girls) in overseas locations where kids were forced to wake up at 4 am and take cold bucket showers and worship Butler. 6. Excommunication. 7. Homophobia. 8. Islamophobia. 9. Evidence, old tapes, and transcripts of Chris Butler's vulgar lectures and letters were deleted. 10. Butler's wife, Wai Lana. 11. A boat accident that killed a man by Butler's Lanikai, Hawaii ocean-front home that was driven by his bodyguards and disciples. 12. Inconsistencies of Butler's teachings with the larger Gaudiya Vaishnava faith. 13. Transgressions and legal issues related to Chris Butler and his global SIF centers. 14. Sexual and child abuse.

Sorry, wrong link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_of_Identity_Foundation#Criticism

It doesn't matter; it looks like the Butler-bots got to it anyway.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Gabbard said she was partnering with X on a
> series of short films to share stories of people
> "whose voices are silenced."

Is she talking about Rama Ranson, Henri Jolicoeur, Ian Koviak and many others whose public voices were attacked by SIF hired lawyers?

There is an interesting conversation on Polish Facebook/Meta profiles about honesty towards the leader of the Polish "SIF", Tapasya das. Before he lost his leadership position in Poland, Tapasya das asked for honesty towards him. This is in correspondence published on Facebook/Meta. And the late Tomasz Ornatowski wrote to him honestly what he thought and Tapasya, given his honesty and truthfulness, could not stand it....


RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good things to read so as not to dry up your
> common sense:

Thanks, donwloaded.

> 1. Connections to drug money. 2. Connections to
> international money laundering. 3. Involvement
> with politics. 4. Mistreatment of disciples and
> followers. 5. Illegal boarding schools for boys
> (and another for girls) in overseas locations
> where kids were forced to wake up at 4 am and take
> cold bucket showers and worship Butler. 6.
> Excommunication. 7. Homophobia. 8. Islamophobia.
> 9. Evidence, old tapes, and transcripts of Chris
> Butler's vulgar lectures and letters were deleted.
> 10. Butler's wife, Wai Lana. 11. A boat accident
> that killed a man by Butler's Lanikai, Hawaii
> ocean-front home that was driven by his bodyguards
> and disciples. 12. Inconsistencies of Butler's
> teachings with the larger Gaudiya Vaishnava faith.
> 13. Transgressions and legal issues related to
> Chris Butler and his global SIF centers. 14.
> Sexual and child abuse.

Quite precise and complete.

Interesting things are happening in Poland right now. Mariusz Kaminski and Maciej Wasik were arrested. Mariusz Kaminski was Minister of Interior and Administration from August 14, 2019 to November 27, 2023 and Coordinator of special services. He founded the Republican League.

The Republican League was responsible for the attack on "SIF" Poland in Krakow. Among other things, she attacked Madhav dasi while giving a public lecture. There were firecrackers and her shirt was little burned. They distributed leaflets during lectures. They taped the staircase in the tenement house with skulls where 79-year-old Narashinga das lived. He lost that apartment. It was rented to him for 40 years as an apartment and an art studio. But Madhava dasi held meditation classes there, and the tenement house's supervisor was a Catholic priest, and there were Catholic schools around it. The agreement, of course, did not include subletting or renting for proselytizing activities.

Mariusz Kaminski and his deputy Maciej Wasik were detained at the Presidential Palace, where they were guests of the President of Poland, Andrzej Duda. The president believes that he effectively pardoned them in 2015, but the verdict was not yet final and legal disputes, loopholes and inconsistencies with the Polish Constitution arose. Currently, they are both in different prisons.

Hi Culthusiast—

I'm not sure what this incident was, but it appears to be some sort of religious discrimination/intolerance/hate crime.

I'm curious what was written about Tapasya.

To this very day, in 2024, Catholics, Hindus, and Muslims are constantly arguing, fighting, and trying to suggest they have the answers, while mostly being the source of division, hatred, and avoidable distress.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure what this incident was, but it
> appears to be some sort of religious
> discrimination/intolerance/hate crime.
>
> I'm curious what was written about Tapasya.
>
> To this very day, in 2024, Catholics, Hindus, and
> Muslims are constantly arguing, fighting, and
> trying to suggest they have the answers, while
> mostly being the source of division, hatred, and
> avoidable distress.

On the Facebook/Meta - a scan with the article:

[www.facebook.com]


Rapublican League:
[pl.wikipedia.org]


Here are the articles. Please use Google Translate - the level of automatic translations is really good:

"Association against the Mission"
[dziennikpolski24.pl]


"A bag of sects"
[www.polityka.pl]

"Ticket to heaven"
[dziennikpolski24.pl]


"The Last Crusade"
[www.wprost.pl]

"Right to right"
[www.wprost.pl]


Narashinga das:
[www.facebook.com]


About Tapasya das - "sincere" letter to Tapasya das by Tomasz O. (departed)

[www.facebook.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2024 09:38PM by Culthusiast.