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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: October 22, 2022 06:06PM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, when you bliss out on the mantras and
> transcendental love, the past does not matter
> much. However the past is what has shaped us.
> I am not saying I am a teacher snd guru. However I
> have descended into the hell of my own psyche and
> faced my inner demons. And unleasehd them onto
> others too unfortunately.
> butler is not aware of his inner parasites so he
> is in no position to be a guru.

It can be considered an added value of Vedic philosophy or yoga, that there is a dormant problem in everyone. Contemporary clinics talk about the effects of trauma, family scripts of parents, grandparents, genetic influence and it can be concluded that the mess does not help - they live chimeras. It's harder when the values are in conflict. For example, a man and a woman, 20-year-olds do their homework for college, sex and a mishap. There will be a baby. It turns out later that the family does not accept the husband because his ancestors are politically deadly enemies. And this reluctance will be manifested for decades. He will torment his wife. The children will suffer. And so on. On many plans. But here common sense helps. So you can accuse "progressive free sex thinkers" that they are unscientific and also generate chaos.
And the hidden demons inside - in this world you cannot be a sweet nightingale, you need to 'have hard elbows and a flexible neck' as it is in the Polish song, and a different set. By adhering to higher values, e.g. giving everything to the poor, you will not pay rent for a flat, etc. and will die of cold, hunger or lice in a shelter for the homeless ...

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: October 24, 2022 07:25PM

Of course the Vedas would know about human nature. Don’t they keep telling us that they created these human genomes?
Don’t they give us so many guidelines about the mind, ego, senses…
Yes human nature is very complex as well as the psyche.
I have realized that faith and beliefs make it a bit easier. Like when everybody thinks sthe same thing.
Humans like to hang out like a flock of sheep and do the rituals together.
It seems that having the same beliefs or non beliefs is what creates solid bonds.
In the past years as I started going down the rabbit hole and discover deeper truth, I come across people who all have their own theories.
It is not much easier to hang out with non religious or in non cultic settings.
I realized that almost each person I come across, still wants to brainwash or inject me with their beliefs or non beliefs.
There is the same inacceptance for those who do not share the same beliefs.
You see how everybody wants to be right at any cost. Devaluating each others’ experiences…
There is zero respect for the individual journey of that soul. People are absoluetly convinced that their reality and views must apply to others.
I have had nothing but conversations that lead nowhere because everybody is right. Jesus is the way, create your reality is the way, aliens are the way, atheism is the ultimate way…
It is hard to come across people who have the humility to say that noone holds the truth. We are all as clueless and we are trying to connect dots.
Individuality is not encouraged. This is why many feel safe in cultic situations.
At least devotees do not have to argue like animals about their belifefs all day long. And they also try to overcome their animalistic instincts by curbing the ego.
Beliefs and non beliefs seem to be like a program that humans need to adhere to.
Non beliefs are as strong and as dangerous as beliefs.
So it is not a bed of roses out there either when you leave a cult. Unless you are completely materialistic and only speak of superficial subjects.
If you are more on the spiritual path, it is a mess that make mental hospitals look like a meditation retreat.
Also this reality is a giant puzzle that is not meant to be solved. So on a psychological level, there is sanity is accepting one program or the other.
I realized that this society is like a combination of mini belief cults.
In the past years I was sold the Jesus and New earth program as well as we create our own relaity. They tried to sell it to me with as much conviction as the hare krishnas.
And every single belief will reciprocrate with you. Jesus, Allah, Krishna, aliens… Whatever you believe in, will interact with you. Solidifying your beliefs so that you will try and force it upon others.
There is the same non acceptance in society of those who think differently.
Also there is a tendency to think that X and Y know more or know better. So almost everybody is looking for some guru.
Now the gurus are any jane or joe who makes videos on youtube.
Every single person must look within and find the fanaticism and rigidity they carry. Most people have a cult mentality.
To inject beliefs and non beliefs into others is no different than the cult mentality.
At least one positve qualites devotee have, is that they try and be introspective instead of always pointing the finger at others.
Like how everybody is sitting on their sofa now and shooting arrows at Meghan Markle. Not one of these single peopke can look in the mirror and see their own narcissism.
This is the aspect of the krishna consc I appreciate. You are not allowed to always think that you are much better than the next guy.
There is some accountability. You are pushed to look within and try and correct yourself. Even if for some it takes 40 years.
There is a sincere effort to change. But they are misguided and mistreated. And the teachings are not perfect unfortunately.
I realize now that cults are not so much the issue. The fanaticism and rigidity is built in many humans.
Cults only feed and magnify that inner fanaticism that I AM rigt and you are wrong.
In order to change our society, we must all change individually. Cults are a refelction of our own spiritual and psychological immaturity.
Unless we are complete and wise, we will fall into one trap after the other.
There are preys and predators. If you are an easy prey, people like butler are here to milk you.
In the wild, one wrong move will get you killed. Nature can be a bit more ruthless than society. However it is no different really.
Can we blame a predator like butler for doing what a predator is supposed to do? This is his nature. But poor souls are so naive that even if a king cobra sits on the high chair, they will bow down to it.
There comes a time where we can only blame ourselves for our stupidity. For trusting too much and for being too blind.
Just looking for secutity and bliss at any cost. A mental hospital rarely cures. Our salavation is solely in our own hands. No religion. No guru. No alien can free us from the prison we have locked ourselves in.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: October 25, 2022 05:22AM

Of course there is some sanity to join a religious group. The question is what is the main motive - moral values in good company or the illusion of insurance in the event of imminent death? Beside "spiritual development". Contribution.

Try to change yourself? Correction? It is still according to the Vedanta philosophy that there are "saguna" - on the material level. Of course, "mode of goodness is better than the rest." "Cleans". "Develops knowledge". On the other hand, "why fight with your nature". Meditation. "And better than meditation is to work without being attached to fruit" ...

There is a lot of room for abuse here.

Man has a certain amount of faith in a happy life and a willingness to fulfill himself in the perceived realities. The anxiety of death prompts one to enter a cult. Only after a certain load of pain, for example, a disease begins to see death as salvation. Even when he or she pulls herself out of pain, one no longer wants to delude himself with the vision of happiness.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: November 05, 2022 02:17AM

We all come into this world with baggage. Some have a more angelic fabric for sure. I have met such sweet souls at the SoI.Very rare though.
But then again they came from very kind and balanced families with no trauma.
I myself for sure carry a huge anount of the negative qualities, which am not proud of.
Those who have heavier pasts suffer more in these settings. And the leaders are not qualibrated to deal with such issues.
So all you do is supress, supress, supress. When you expolode, they ban you for. few yesrs.
Zero understanding of psychology and how the mind and dark forces truly function.
All that you get as info is mind, ego, demonic nature…
And chanting more like a robot is the only solution.
Yes krishna consciousness can be for sure a purifying method that keep the demonic nature in check.
However we can see from Iskcon and SoI’s rotten gurus, that it is still not a 100000 percent potent method to get rid of the inner darkness.
SoI help you in some ways and damage you in others.
Yes. They are a mental hospital with a staff that is so clueless that it truly hurts.
It takes a huge effort and many different methods in order for one to truly grasp the mind and this reality.
The teachings and practices of bhakti do not go as deep as one may falsly believe.
And as we have witnessed it, it can even be. very dangerous philosophy that can get so easily twisted.
The offenses are used as a fear factory to keep devotees in a state of absolute contro all the time.
And in the right hand, it can surely be a positive tool for those who like to bow and worship. To each their own.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: November 05, 2022 07:02PM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I myself for sure carry a huge anount of the
> negative qualities, which am not proud of.

Nature itself make species to stand against each other.

> Zero understanding of psychology and how the mind
> and dark forces truly function.

"Rajasic" and "Tamasic". Cult hierarchy. Recruitment and business motive. MLM techniques. Denial.

> And chanting more like a robot is the only
> solution.

Actually in the Gaudiya tradition there is "tadana & lalana" - a guru offers affection and chastizement. Both connected and important. According to Bhagavad Gita, a disciple has to ask submissive questions.Etc. What in SoI? Guru not available personally. Read "Sai speaks". "you have to put intellec aside". No guru, Gita says: ask submissive questions. And philosophy also has samkhya and pranama....Logic in the spirit of holy scriptures..


"Don't come close to the guru, don't ask any questions and serve with devotion in our MLM"

Or money...Many for marijuana are ok. Really? What about regulative principles?

> Yes krishna consciousness can be for sure a
> purifying method that keep the demonic nature in
> check.

But they fail even with own teachings. "Stealing for Krishna is OK". Really? Gita says that great men sets and example to follow for the whole world. You want the whole world to be in your MLM? Thats more for Bismark, Tibby and Eswaran...

> The teachings and practices of bhakti do not go as
> deep as one may falsly believe.

One can discuss inconsistencies in the translations of the Bhagava Gita, corrections in the verses in conflict with the literal sound of the transliteration, etc. There was no teaching of sanskrit, no acquiring a dictionary in SoI. Even in the brochures there are errors or omissions in the explanation of the mantras. Grammatical errors as shown, for example, by those familiar with Sanskrit.

Regarding Bhagavad Gita. "Learn to endure happiness and unhappiness without anxiety because they are like the seasons." Can it be learned? Does it have to be transcendental depth, detachment from the physical world? Willingness to die and faith or already have a relationship with God? A certain limit of physical suffering and hunger does not allow this to be "learned". When the pain or hunger is so great, only God can help overcome it. Well, unless someone is a Buddhist monk and will endure self-immolation .. As you can see exceptions, but still in extreme, ultimate situations.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: November 05, 2022 09:28PM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And chanting more like a robot is the only
> solution.

And the priority in "Kali yuga" - sankirtana. That is what "Run forest run" emphasized in the psychological sense - apart from the potential transcendent effects - congregational chanting, present in human culture (among animals too), a sense of community, rising for a moment from the realization of particular goals, focusing on a higher goal. Social satisfaction. And that it is automatic? That there is a leader, a bellwether. Conductor. Technical necessity to send the line. But again one ...

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: November 13, 2022 12:27AM

The beings that put the Vedas together claim they have also constructed this material hole. Karma, reincarnation…
I mean no scripture gives you as much detail as the vedas about the mind, senses, ego, the different natures…
Krishna consciousness is a great pacifier snd antidote.
In all these years, if I had stayed a devotee, I would have been able to suck up all the torture with humility.
I mean it is the best brainwashing ever. To think that I have deserved it all. It is a humbling approach that protects us from pain.
We just keep putting everything under the rug. And this path makes you way too vulnerable. So at times you accumulate more problems by being too forgiving of rascals.
I must say that when I was a devotee, I had become a better person, but I was still running a program. The devotee program.
My nasty side was kept in check like the nasty side of many who were afraid to show it.
I mean only the leaders are permitted to be full blown abusers and narcissists. Not the lowly off the street low lives.
SoI is not a safe setting because they do not know how to manage the mental hospital.
It is a jungle where only the fit survive. Those who are extremely narcissistic, the ones who know how to play the game, the ones who are very well adjusted…
Ultimately having a guru direct us is like handicapping our inner guidance.
I feel that the deep work is to face our inner darkness alone. And to conquer it. To understand it. To truly grasp ourselves, our past, the influences that made us who we are.
Most religions just push you to have acceptance for the suffering we go through as humans. And not rebel against it.
We keep repeating the mantras I am such a fallen soul and I am demon all day long.
At one point you will believe it. And that becomes an antidote against the injustices you feel for all that is imposed upon you.
You neither feel bitter against god nor other humans. It is all your karma from 100000 lifetimes you do not remember.
So yes. Krishna consciousness is for sure the solution to the material hole via a deep reprogramming of our psyche.
It all makes sense until it no longer resonates.
This is why they always tell you to not look elsewhere. Because once you push one card, the whole house of cards fall.
I have made peace with the path and I can now sit back and look more clearly at it all. Without being emotionally disturbed.
We should all reach a point where we act from a place of kindness. Not out of fear of getting thrown out or kicked in the behind by your guru.
Or to be forced to keep the auto cleansing going on by chanting 6 hours a day.
Not acting civil to please a god or for liberation from birth and death.
One must become mature and responsible regardless the religions and society’s standards.
Or motivated by fear of rejection and bliss rewards.
How would devotees act if not for that carrot at the end of the stick? If there are no supernatural or bliss rewards involved?
Some devotees suffer behind the scenes with drug and porn addictions…
They hide it well till it is discovered and they are punished.
Noone is going to try and help them and understand what is up.
Yes many devotees suffer in silence because they are either not in love with the path or their senses are too strong.
But all stay because they can no longer go back to the material world.
So they must be in purgatory. Stuck between 2 worlds.
The devotee community is full of oscar worthy actors. So many individuals can pass for sincere just because they are talented and good free slaves.
Howver they are just acting. And their most talented actor is butler himself.
Yes SoI is a very elaborate and starnge hollywood script and you will enter it at your own risk.
The sense of community is very comforting but we all know it comes at a high price.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: November 13, 2022 06:34AM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I must say that when I was a devotee, I had become
> a better person, but I was still running a
> program. The devotee program.

"Soi Devotee" v(?)

> My nasty side was kept in check like the nasty
> side of many who were afraid to show it.
> I mean only the leaders are permitted to be full
> blown abusers and narcissists. Not the lowly off

As one of the Polish leaders publicly "you are sitting in your ass again". Wait, how was Lord Balaram and the blade of grass?

Or "somebody shut this kid up or I'm going to strangle him with these hands".

> It is a jungle where only the fit survive. Those
> who are extremely narcissistic, the ones who know
> how to play the game, the ones who are very well
> adjusted…

That's classic elves and morlocks in the Soi version...

> I feel that the deep work is to face our inner
> darkness alone. And to conquer it. To understand
> it. To truly grasp ourselves, our past, the
> influences that made us who we are.

Shadow zone? It's also self-centeredness. Jung's fascination with pantheism indicates the time when one becomes aware of one's own psychological existence, and moments later the existence of a second, higher psychological identity. Jungian God. And then there is only Brahman...


> At one point you will believe it. And that becomes
> an antidote against the injustices you feel for
> all that is imposed upon you.

It's easier. Ultimatelly material existence is boring. Awfull...Terrible. Sex? Let someone fart in the nose...That's reality. Naked pictures are an illusion. They could deliver fragrances in plastic bags..I know i am nasty...Forgive me. Victim of the cult...

> You neither feel bitter against god nor other
> humans. It is all your karma from 100000 lifetimes
> you do not remember.

Sankirtana, on the other hand, is supposed to remove these problems instantly...

> It all makes sense until it no longer resonates.
> This is why they always tell you to not look
> elsewhere. Because once you push one card, the
> whole house of cards fall.

This is undoubtedly true in SoI. If someone has assimilated this amalgam of Vedanta, Yogi, Yogi-Nidra, probably also Zen elements (Haiku Meditation with Ma Devashakti and Teyo Mayananda next to Sai), MLM techniques, party IGG, creation techniques ("recognized in the world") then this rigor, regime, construction is the basis of his beliefs and psychological existence. Undermining truths, beliefs, learned arts, "haribol & namaste" and suddenly a disaster. On the other hand, hard formalism, sticking to sastra, logic, facts, precedents, proofs is a difficult but nevertheless liberating process. From this rigor...

> Yes many devotees suffer in silence because they
> are either not in love with the path or their
> senses are too strong.

Not only. Some practices can be considered as stimulating the senses, which can be discussed. Practices at SoI. Or atmosphere, energy. I observed that.

> But all stay because they can no longer go back to
> the material world.

Fear.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: November 13, 2022 06:39AM

In general, you can also rely on Bhagavad Gita. Approach a self-realized person. Ask humble/submissive questions and serve with devotion. No asking questions? There is no guru? Adios muchachos. No tadana & lalana - good bye...

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: November 13, 2022 07:00AM

Or such a release process. The inner kshatriya policeman (rajas) takes the magnum powerful handgun of knowledge and slays the malicious demon of ignorance (tamas) binding the inner child (satva):

Do I feel lucky?

[www.youtube.com]

Unless your inner child is just as nasty...

[youtu.be]

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