Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 03, 2013 01:10PM

When Shyam Dodge published his memoirs in 2009, “Wet Hot and Wild American Yogi” about his life growing up in Butler’s cult, he stated that some names were changed to protect the innocent. He obliquely describes life in the cult without "outing" Mr. Butler by using common euphemisms understood by the mainstream yoga community. He only refers to him as Sai, and shares little of the practices of the cult. He never mentions Katyayani by name but she is clearly described in the book. He speaks of ashrams instead of Butler’s decentralized system of house cells, compounds, and yoga centers. He speaks of being a Hindu monastic or monk instead of using the term brahmachary. He does not expose the cult head on. It is a cult of secrecy and masks. His book reflects a culture not accustomed to full disclosure.

Yet it is an authentic description and indictment of Butler’s cult. Those who were there know of whom and what he is talking about. He validates everything that has been reported on this forum. For example, he describes how over time Butler became more authoritarian, remote, and orthodox until he became flat out OCD crazy.

Even with all of his precautions he has been severely punished by the cult as a aparadha or blasphemer. He received death threats from Butler followers. He has blood relatives who will not speak to him. At one point, he was not allowed to be in the same room alone with his little sister after the book was written, because he was thought of as "crazy" and might rape her... The majority of the people with whom he grew up (friends and relatives) no longer speak with him. These were instructions coming from his guru and other "leaders". These leaders need to be exposed, even more so than the unfortunate followers.

Shyam Dodge is an outcast to most everyone he knew.... because he chose to write a book about his experiences. He was raised from a very young age to be a guru where people bowed down to him and thought him a saint… only to be thrown out like a piece of trash for telling the truth.

The book title and cover art are perfect.
People remember Butler’s story about meeting Jimi Hendrix during the Rainbow Bridge Festival on Maui in 1970. RAINBOW BRIDGE/MAUI 1970
It was like two Alpha Males converging in the same space. Siddha thought him very arrogant and said “Jimi is only into Jimi”. I am sure the feeling was mutual…but Siddha was a piss poor musician…and Jimi was probably more enlightened….IMHO. Siddha hated the album art on AXIS BOLD AS LOVE where Jimi’s face replaced Vishnu’s in the Universal Form. So Shyam’s book cover is perfect. It's an absolute slap in the face to a man who hurt his family profoundly.

The title may gross out the more “spiritual” types, but I think it is a brilliant foil to a lot of the current yoga phoniness. It also epitomizes the tendency of human beings who follow and create idols out of mere mortal men. How easy it is to make yourself an idol, a guru, as Kumare demonstrated.

The "Hot Wet and Wild American Yogi" book cover is also similar to the Sai Speaks book cover using “hippie” style graphics. Sai is seriously pictured all golden and “Chaitanya-like” (the Golden incarnation of the g0d Krishna). While Shyam’s book cover is clearly satirical.

While the writing is flawed (even Hemingway needed a good editor) the book is an easy read that both honors his father’s memory and exposes a destructive cult. It is a sometimes funny and sometimes moving account that brought tears to my eyes. It also leaves one with a sense of hope for those lost in cults and the ability to recover ones humanity. I would quote a lot from the book, but not without permission from the author. Read it for yourself. Order on Amazon. WET HOT AND WILD AMERICAN YOGI

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2013 01:14PM by Vera City.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 04, 2013 01:25AM

This video shows the surfer culture in which Butler grew. His disciples were at the Rainbow Bridge concert with colorful banners and signs. [His temple on Kauai had a sign that was lettered "Krishna, Beyond Mystic Liquid".] He and his followers chanted and played music, passed out vegetarian food, but also enjoyed the festive atmosphere and the other bands. Here is another clip. Perhaps someone will recognize one of Sai's followers in the crowd? At clip 1:11 there is someone who looks like Wayne Nishiki, but instead of a picture of Hendrix in the car, there would be a picture of Krishna and wooden japa beads hanging on the mirror. Yeah kids, the hippies look pretty bland and tame, but that's how it really was.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: dabcult ()
Date: June 04, 2013 02:28AM

Fabulous writing Vera ...most informative
I am in contact with part of the famaly of Shyam

and ladies and gentlemen that is what we are dealing with

a cult that is so desperate that some of its member are ready to KILL if anyone reveal
the secrets of he cult ...........there is a lot of money involve and some could loose their lucrative jobs
including Mike Gabbard
Its a freaking shame that Shyam as been told he would be kill ....for just saying the truth
minimum its therapeutic for him ......having been raise in such mindset (BUTLER IS AS GOOD AS GOD )
The cult wants to maintain an image ...JAGAT GURU "Master of the UNIVERS "
even if they have to kill someone in the process .
Shyam seem to put all this in the past (he said ) but is he being shut up because he is afraid of what the cult could do to him and sisters
nefiews ??its an intricate karma that famaly dinimique

I feell an urgency to show that BUTLER is just a narcicisstic gang leader
you mix that with the hothead of his ide kick SIDDHA .....and WAI LANA
Better hurry up before someone get kill
there is anoff of hurting already
the brainwash followers of Butler .....are just a bunch of his mental prisoners
it feel good to me when even a few ARE FREE AT LAST

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: dabcult ()
Date: June 04, 2013 04:49AM

The RICK ROSS organisation told me that someone try to sign in my name (with no success) on this forum
Why would someone from the cult try to get in my account ? I WONDER

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: June 04, 2013 05:59AM

To whom it may concern:

There has been no security problem.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 04, 2013 09:51AM


If you are getting death threats and other forms of aversive coersion so you won't come forward with the truth, your best security is to go public and report threats to local authorities.
Shyam Dodge stated in his interview that Butler himself stopped the death threats when his mother intervened. That is on public record.

It's complicated. It's convoluted. It's fucked up. There are innocents tangled in the warp and woof of the cult threads. But there is no excuse to justify separating families or even imagining killing someone because they don't hold your same beliefs. You were born into it. You did not choose it. If you don't like this forum or how people are "outing" this cult here, then come up with a creative way that suits you. You have writers among you, and artists, and all your stories need to be told. Inch by inch.

Many exers just ran away and hid out for years till they found this forum. Why did Shyam hide so much of the real story in inuendo and euphemism? The answer to that question is the real story.

You say if I push too hard, it will just make them grab on to the cult more tightly. You say that they are sheep and can't help themselves. You say that that some are too far gone. But this is not completely true. There are exceptions.

There's a story of a young woman who was making plans to join "Siddha" in Hawaii. [She had been told how cool and pure and magical he was]. While hanging out at the University of Berkeley campus, a kind graduate student sat down to listen to her whole devotee rap. He let her empty it completely out. Afterwards he threw in a few arguments but they were vehemently paried with her complete convictions. Then he began to talk to her with real care and compassion. She doesn't remember much of what he said only that he told her that her justifications will not hold. He predicted that she would not last more than 10 years in the cult. When he looked in her eyes he imparted a look like, "Somewhere inside of you, you know this is wrong, you know it is not who you really are. Find out what is real and give up this fantasy." The fact is that he was right. He had succeeded to chip away an inch. She wished she had written down his name to thank him. At the time, she just thought he was full of shit and was upset that she was unable to convince him of a thing. But she never forgot him.

Zelig tells the story of his family mercilessly mocking him and putting on skits. His Dad and brother made up their own cult which they called the "Octavians". His Dad was the leader and would put on a sheet like a robe. Hid Dad made up loud and fake chants and danced by Z's car with all the neighbors watching while he drove away after a visit. They told him straight up they thought he was a lunatic. But it was done with love and not harshness. It was the love that sustained Z and helped him to escape. Z now refers to his Dad as the original Kumare. Apparently embarrassment was capable of making a one inch dent. This was quite different than the humiliations suffered under Butler.

Another exer almost died on a project in a third world country and found themselves abandoned. That woke him up an inch. Another got yelled at one too many times...two inches. Others lost a husband or a wife to another cult member...three inches. Someone simply fell in love with a nice person who had no interest in the cult....four inches.

None of these exits were instantaneous. Most were gradual ~ some taking years. Some went from the fire to the frying pan into another type of cult, while others became "rubber band" members ~ going in and out or just wrapping around the exterior. There are lots of stories told and untold. Shyam knows all too well the common denominator here...the characteristic that freed them all. It's love. It's humanity.

Hate is not the opposite of love, fear is... The thing to really look at is the FEAR. What is it? Why is it there? Who put it there?

But as you read this you are also hearing all the old programming playing inside your head that doubts are like demons... these people are karmis in maya... we will be chased down like animals until Lord Kalki rescues us...aparadha.....the wise lament neither for the living or the dead...mad elephant offence... spiritual death....

If you can get others to look in the face of those fears that come up... if you can for a moment pull away the curtain to reveal that aging, pathetic, misanthrope called Jagad Guru, it will be enough. Will there be a back lash. Of course. There always is...but wait....give it time. You won't always know who or when or just what made the difference...

I have yet to meet one exer who regrets leaving the cult. In every case their lives are better for it.

Here's something else to consider. All it takes is one brave person to empower and encourage others to do something great and right.
I leave you with this, probably the best coaching speech ever written...Love it...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2013 09:57AM by Vera City.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: June 04, 2013 08:40PM


Here's something else to consider. All it takes is one brave person to empower and encourage others to do something great and right.
I leave you with this, probably the best coaching speech ever written...Love it...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: VitaminC ()
Date: June 06, 2013 01:35PM

If it means anything to anyone, I left many years ago. Afterwards, I felt lost, confused, lonely and almost went back to what I thought was the safety of the cult. It slowly sank in that those people were not my friends, they were not my neighbors, nor did I owe them anything. All they did was take years of my life away and used me. I thought they gave me purpose, but what they gave me was emptiness that made me keep going back for more false illusions of happiness. It was like trying to carry water in a bucket with a hole on the bottom. I would get filled up, then quickly feel empty again, but instead of plugging the hole, I just tried to fill it up again.

Its rough in the beginning because we are brainwashed into believing that the cult brings happiness and salvation. The food, the music, the dancing.

None of it is real. I was just being used. Treated as a means to a goal for Butler's pockets. To make one man and his family rich. No different than any other con man. A common criminal.

These negative feelings subsided eventually when I realized that I wasnt the one that was fucked up. They were. I realized after a while that it was normal to feel this way after being betrayed by a large group of people who say they are your friends but their only goal is to use you.

I worried for a long while about what my "friends" would think about me leaving. I worried about the guilt that I felt for leaving. I realized all of this was just part of what Butler put into my head, a system of control.

It just takes making the first step to leave and go back to having a beautiful life.

Ive never looked back since.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: dabcult ()
Date: June 07, 2013 03:12AM

Dear Vitamin C

Your description could be the one of most cult members
that is mentally enslave ....chaine ...prisoner of brainwashing

Its vicious and more you bow down ....more you chant the glories of BUTLER
more and more the subconscious mind become unable to respond as someone caught in quick sand.

WWW.FREEDOMOFMIND.COM is another site similar to RICK ROSS
and its really the right concept free the mind from the cults brainwashing

My goal is to destroy the images and cult of BUTLER
so that some more people like you become free

I know I was one of 11 leaders of ISKCON at one time
it nearly kill me .......when at 21 I was made to promise to be a monk for life (sanyasin)
and when i broke my vows at age 23 ......I was suicidal
fortunatly I had a freat wife and we got children right away they where and have always been a guide to my sanity

I became a hypnotherapist and psychotherapist better understand how this mind of mine work
now if we can help free some of the MENTALLY chaine prisoners .............ITS A GREAT SERVICE to our truth SELF and their TRUTH self

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: June 07, 2013 07:44AM


I have been hard at work tracking down some lost and hidden material regarding Chris Butler and his puppets, The Gabbards. Here is just one lead I am tracing:

“In the '80s and '90s, Butler appeared in a series of locally filmed shows, titled Jagad Guru Speaks, in which he sermonized on spirituality. In one episode, titled "Is God Really Loveable?" Butler mocks the Bible and the Christian interpretation of God, calling them nonsensical. "These Christians don't know God," Butler says. His comments summon laughs and nods of agreement from the room full of listeners. Mike and Carol Gabbard are shown sitting just a few feet away from the charismatic guru, laughing along with the audience.

A copy of that video or even still shots would be very embarrassing to Mike Gabbard and Carol Gabbard who continue to disavow any ties to Butler. Their daughter, Tulsi Gabbard, pretends to be Hindu American. I’d be happy to have real Hindu Americans learn the truth about the Gabbards and Tulsi’s true heritage. Chris Butler and Mike Gabbard threatened law suits and the video was taken down. Once I locate it, I can find a safe server where it cannot be so easily censored, perhaps located in Russia. Anyone with knowledge of a copy, or anecdotes about the filming, is encouraged to message me or post here. The name Cara James is familiar, so please comment if you know of her and her history with Rick Ross Forum abd threats made to her person.

Why do I care? Harlan Hughes said it best here:
“When someone runs for public office they should be open and honest about who they are, what they believe, who they support, and who supports them. Hidden alliances and misrepresenting oneself are, in my opinion, are the same as lying.

Mike Gabbard represents himself to be a “practicing Roman Catholic”, but for many years has been a member of a radical Hara Krishna splinter-group, who’s leader, Chris Butler, a.k.a. “Jagad Guru”, claims to be “Teacher of the Absolute Truth, above all religions and above all governments, and refers to the Christian God as a “Sadist”. Gabbard has also been honored by the leader of the “Moonie” cult who claims to be the “Messiah” and preaches couples that don’t want children are less than human.

When someone running for public office is involved with groups considered to be “Cults”, and espouses their dogma, it’s good to look deeper into the Cult and the candidate’s involvement before deciding to support them. I do not denigrate Hinduism. I do believe however, that Chris Butler is a narcissist, seething with disdain for “non-believers”, a false Prophet, and Mike Gabbard’ role model…”

The news about Bhakti Gabbard’s total melt-down down is very sad and likely due to his cult upbringing. So, I was surprised to read of Mike Gabbard’s work experience related to drug treatment, psychiatric wards, and counseling. It seems Mike will need to work on some excuses of why he did not get help for Bhakti back in 2000 when he first was arrested related to drugs. Or, Mike can simply rewrite his Bio for the hundredth time:

- Counselor at drug rehab program through Sonoma State (9/70 to 12/70)

- Intern at emergency psychiatric ward, Santa Rosa Memorial Hospital (1970)

More clips from the deep web:

“Chris Butler Threatens To Sue This Website
Written by Cara James
Monday, 26 May 2008
Chris Butler Threatens To Sue This Website
Over Video Produced By Carol Gabbard…”

Gabbard's Religion: In His Own Words

Written by Cara James Saturday, 31 May 2008

“In 2004, due to pressure from congressional opponent Ed Case to reveal information about his connection to the Science of Identity Foundation (SoI) and his guru Chris Butler, Mike Gabbard published a religious biography on his site In less than 2 months it had disappeared and a more subtle and edited version reappeared on the site which also disappeared after 2 months….”


earlier pages from

“…Mike Gabbard claimed to "embrace Christianity" at a meeting of the Open Table last year. He told the interfaith group that his "only happiness is working for God, our supreme lord Jesus Christ." But Gabbard's words of praise for Christian belief ring hollow. For many years, the Gabbards have been devoted supporters and adherents of a splintered-off Krishna cult and members of the Science of Identity Foundation, a local Hindu cult founded by Chris Butler (aka Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa)…”

University of Hawaii web site. “Until recently, Carol Gabbard served on the Science of
Identity Foundation's Board of Directors. In a video series titled "Jagad Guru Speaks,"
Mike and Carol Gabbard appear with Butler as he bashes Christianity
and attacks Mormons. Butler refers to God as a "sadist" and calls Christians "fanatics."
In this video, the Gabbards laugh and nod in agreement with their guru.”

“Mike, Carol and three of their children outside their restaurant in 1988, four years before
Homosexual extremists forced them out of business.”
“August 2, 2004
A Honolulu Attorney representing Chris Butler’s Science of Identity Foundation is threatening to sue the web site, claiming copyright infringement, and attempts to negate the connection between Gabbard and the Science of Identity Foundation stating [the] “website appears to be an in artful attempt to maliciously link Mr. Gabbard with the Science of Identity Foundation.” This appears to be a similar ploy used in Nov. of 2000 by Mike Gabbard, which was unsuccessful, to stop criticism of him and his jihad. See below.....


Gabbard Threatens to Sue!
The Gabbard Homophobia Machine is so paranoid that it is threatening to sue
LaGondino for speaking out!

November 2, 2000
In a futile attempt to discredit, intimidate, and cease the truth dispersing activities of…”


Open letter to Mike Gabbard from his congressional opponent, Ed Case:

22. You've stated that you were affiliated with the " Ponomauloa School" in Wahiawa; what type of school was that, what years was it in existence, and what were your responsibilities and in what years?

23. You've stated that you "know the challenges of running your own business"; exactly what businesses have you owned or operated, where were they located, and what was your specific role with each and in what years?

26. You have implied that you are or have been a Catholic; are or were you, when, and what church if any do you currently attend?

27. Are you or have you been a follower of the religion sometimes called Vaisnava or Vaishava, and have you worshiped or do you worship Lord Brahma or Lord Vishnu?

28. Do you follow or have you followed the teachings of the Vedas?

29. Are you or have you been a follower of Chris Butler, also referred to as Jagad Guru, Siddha Swarupa Ananda, or Siddhaswarupananda Paramahansa?

30. What is or has been your relationship with any of the Science of Identity Foundation, Identity Institute International, the International Society for Khrishna Consciousness, or Down to Earth Inc.?

32. Did you work for former State Senator Rick Reed?


At the meeting, I called attention to Gabbard’s claim of being both a “practicing Catholic” and a practitioner of “bhakti yoga.” Gabbard bristled. “Are you saying that I am NOT?,” he bellowed.

I said that I did not feel comfortable playing the role of “Defender of the Faith” for the Catholic Church, but that the plain truth is that he is a disciple of Chris Butler. Gabbard demanded to know how his relationship with Chris Butler had any relevance to his wanting to join the Democratic Party…. What Gabbard is saying, when he says “I am a Catholic and I do bhakti yoga” is that he is a Catholic AND a devotee of Krishna. And that he is a disciple of a spiritual master. In this case, that is Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, spritual master of the entire manifest universe.”


Therefore, I would believe that by Gabbard's appearance on Butler's television show, he is a full-fledged initiated disciple of Chris Butler. In the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition, your guru comes first, family 2nd, friends 3rd, and constituents last. On, all he did was deny affiliation to SIF, which, as stated at the beginning of this essay, is something very easy to do. Case's questions, as insightful as they were, unwittingly gave Gabbard a considerable amount of "wiggle room" in vaguely answering legitimate questions.



“…Elected officials are required to disclose positions held by themselves or their spouse including officerships, directorships and trusteeships.

(Carol) Gabbard’s filing does not include her former position as secretary of the Science of Identity Foundation or her husband’s position as president of the Alliance for Traditional Marriage and Values, which helped lead the campaign against the legalization of same-sex marriage in 1998.

Gabbard said she resigned last year from the Science of Identity Foundation, which she described as a "nonprofit, nonsectarian religious organization that promotes love for God and brotherhood amongst all humankind."

And she described as "laughable" the claim that there was any attempt to hide her husband’s affiliations…”


“Gabbard's Small-Business Image
Written by Cara James
Sunday, 25 May 2008

Mike Gabbard claims to be a businessman although examination of his employment history demonstrates he has made misleading statements, sugguests that he has been involved in fabricating companies and has extremely limited means of independent financial support beyond his salary as a senator.

"Gabbard maintains he has continued working as a small businessman, but he declined to give the Weekly the source of his livelihood. "How do I survive? … For obvious reasons, I won’t give you any specifics, because if word gets out, homosexual activists will simply target me once again," he says. (Honolulu Weekly "The Gospel According to Gabbard" Chad Blair January 27th 1999)…”

I promised that I would post new incriminating evidence regarding Mike Gabbard and his wife, Carol Gabbard. They deserve much worse for what they have done to their son, Bhakti. These are the ties to Joseph Bismark which I referred to to last week:

This from the Gabbard's own web sites and Mike Gabbard's disclosure to the Hawaii State Senate.

•Family business, MC Services – distribute air and water purifying systems, nutritional supplements, and do family counseling (1994 to present)

•Owned Infotech Communications, LLC (June 2002 to April 2004)






I have known many Catholics, but never one who changed his congregations unless moving far away. It is unheard of, but Chris Butler changed his church and has probably forgotten that it remains public information. It would be interesting to learn why. Did a fellow Catholic blow his cover?

Old church:

New Church:

Mahalo for reading, Flash signing off...

Options: ReplyQuote

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.