Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
muppet
()
Date: February 20, 2007 01:35AM
Quote
caitQuote
muppet
sWord,
You are correct in thinking that they are a bright,sincere yet misguided bunch. What a sad situation. There was a palpable sigh here when your post was put up.
Frans knee jerk defence of McKay is also illustrative of the loyalty and unity within the group. Someone mentioned the 'calsification' process they go through where they need to be hardened in order to survive.
Thanks for the kind words Muppet. We are suffering greatly from Ash's recent rejection of us, all in the name of loyalty. I've not come across the need for such singular loyalty before. Guess it helps in the self-preparation process for the kidney donation, which we believe he is currently under-going.
We met Fran once, in Oct 2003, when Ash offered to meet with us near my work at lunchtime, for the first time since his sudden departure - actually the first jc we met - a decent young chap.
Fran seemed to totally understand when I told Ash then, that in our view he was doing the wrong thing, in the wrong way, for all the right reasons.
We still think that, but have soiled our nest irretrievably by my not agreeing to a meeting with Da Man to explain why Ash should donate his kidney, after having taken Ash up on an offer to meet briefly with himself, Ross and Barry for that purpose.
I later realised that the reason Da Man needed to explain why Ash wanted to donate his kidney, was more related to their interest in obtaining the domain names of jesuschristians.net and .org to which sWord has previously referred. That interest rapidly dissipated, as did all contact with Ash.
Silly me, to think that anyone really cared enough to enlighten us on that one. I'm sure they will happily give that explanation to the lucky recipient tho, as often as she/he needs to hear it.
--
"I am not an animal" Elephant Man
Hi Cait and sWord,
Are you aware that there is also another thread here about the JC's? Here is a link [board.culteducation.com]
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
ashwyn
()
Date: February 20, 2007 12:53PM
NOTE TO THE MODERATOR: I am not sure whether you will class this email as 'trolling' or not, given your past record, but please understand that I am merely trying to excercise a right of reply towards the slander that has been directed against me. I have been accused of theft, and would appreciate being heard out. If I have used any offensive language, please keep what is left of my post.
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say you sent a letter trying to blackmail us, but all that you had as a threat was a crummy website. You had some grandiose ideas about how I would have to be 'sacrificed for the good of the group' (i.e. kicked out) so that we could defend ourselves against your terrible website.
It sounded so much like you thought of yourself as a real blackmailer, that Dave made a joke about not negotiating with terrorists.
Just lucky that I didn't laugh...
The other side of the website issue comes out. Is it really that unimaginable that I decide no longer to trust people when they are running a public campaign (including registering two domains, and however much work goes into it) against what I believe, and have clearly and unambiguously stated that they want to stop me from doing what I want to do.
I don't know about me denouncing anyone, but you continue to think that you can have it both ways.
It is similar to the problem the is puzzling me at the moment. That is, where you found people selling second hand floppy drives for $5? That is a bit of a rip off if you ask me. And no, of course I did not attempt to take the floppy drive. Nor have I stolen anything from you, if I give something to you, it is yours. I have always thought that the same applied in reverse.
Strip away all the emotive and obfuscating language there and what are you left with? Now Ashwyn believes that those who have two should give to those who have none. Well, I guess you got me on that one.
As I recall, the last time we discussed this issue your response was very clear. If I request that you meet with Dave to discuss the website, then you are not interested in talking to me at all. I never rejected you, all I did was request a discussion, prompting your rejection of me. If I was being exclusive, I would have said "Shut down the website now, or I don't want to talk to you." Even that by itself might be reasonable. As I said before, why should I trust you when you play these childish games.
Let me just remind you of some of our email correspondance which you have not since denied, let alone apologised for, despite trying to pretend that nothing has happened.
I don't know how many times that we have to go over this same issue. I said from the start that I wanted to clear up MY concerns over the website, and I wanted to answer your concerns over the donation, plus any other concerns that may be leading you to act in this childish manner. Perhaps you did not hear or understand this from the beginning, but you continually insinuate that the reason I wanted Dave there to, was speak to you guys about kidney donations. That is not the case, but even if it was, the extent of your irrational demonisation of him is incredible. You still can't even bring yourself to address him by name.
Seriously, pleasetake a look at yourself, and what you are writing.
Good answer Nick, perhaps you might even go so far as to call it "hit counter code", as it is commonly known. Otherwise you play into the rampant paranioa about email address harvesting that people have. And you wouldn't want to play into people's paranoia, would you?
Quote
sWord
Sorry for the delay. I tried to negotiate with the "apostle" about our boy's kidney, and didn't want to antagonise him.
However he branded me a terrorist and declared that they do not negotiate with terrorists.
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say you sent a letter trying to blackmail us, but all that you had as a threat was a crummy website. You had some grandiose ideas about how I would have to be 'sacrificed for the good of the group' (i.e. kicked out) so that we could defend ourselves against your terrible website.
It sounded so much like you thought of yourself as a real blackmailer, that Dave made a joke about not negotiating with terrorists.
Just lucky that I didn't laugh...
Quote
sWord
Anyhow, the deal didn't come off, and Ashwyn has now denounced his mother and cut off contact with us. So I can get on with saying what they took.
The other side of the website issue comes out. Is it really that unimaginable that I decide no longer to trust people when they are running a public campaign (including registering two domains, and however much work goes into it) against what I believe, and have clearly and unambiguously stated that they want to stop me from doing what I want to do.
I don't know about me denouncing anyone, but you continue to think that you can have it both ways.
Quote
sWord
Very puzzling indeed was what happened to my web-server which had to run 24/7. I'd borrowed a 2nd hand floppy drive from him. He tried to retrieve it without stopping the machine. Burnt out the motherboard and left the machine quite useless. All for a $5 floppy drive.
It is similar to the problem the is puzzling me at the moment. That is, where you found people selling second hand floppy drives for $5? That is a bit of a rip off if you ask me. And no, of course I did not attempt to take the floppy drive. Nor have I stolen anything from you, if I give something to you, it is yours. I have always thought that the same applied in reverse.
Quote
apostate
Now he is believing their "he who has two should give to those who have none" bible interpretation as applying to body parts, as his desire to please this false god; created in the image of David McKay, is back stopped by other group sycophants.
Strip away all the emotive and obfuscating language there and what are you left with? Now Ashwyn believes that those who have two should give to those who have none. Well, I guess you got me on that one.
Quote
cait
We are suffering greatly from Ash's recent rejection of us, all in the name of loyalty.
As I recall, the last time we discussed this issue your response was very clear. If I request that you meet with Dave to discuss the website, then you are not interested in talking to me at all. I never rejected you, all I did was request a discussion, prompting your rejection of me. If I was being exclusive, I would have said "Shut down the website now, or I don't want to talk to you." Even that by itself might be reasonable. As I said before, why should I trust you when you play these childish games.
Let me just remind you of some of our email correspondance which you have not since denied, let alone apologised for, despite trying to pretend that nothing has happened.
Quote
cait - in email
I am just here to stand up for freedom of speech, and the bohemians, and if we need to get so serious that we have to call in a caucus on any issue : well, cela!... sorry, but I guess I'm suddenly needed elsewhere, and Nick just ain't allowed to play after all.
Quote
cait - in email
Simply, if you are not comfortable to meet us Dave-less in the first instance, you need to know we will not be comfortable to meet at all after all, because unless we are at peace with each other, there is no way that Nick and I can be at peace with Dave or anyone else - even ourselves. I think I understand that you are not prepared to allow or accept that contingency, and you need to understand that in that case, we can't proceed any further.
Quote
cait
We still think that, but have soiled our nest irretrievably by my not agreeing to a meeting with Da Man to explain why Ash should donate his kidney, after having taken Ash up on an offer to meet briefly with himself, Ross and Barry for that purpose.
I later realised that the reason Da Man needed to explain why Ash wanted to donate his kidney, was more related to their interest in obtaining the domain names of jesuschristians.net and .org to which sWord has previously referred. That interest rapidly dissipated, as did all contact with Ash.
I don't know how many times that we have to go over this same issue. I said from the start that I wanted to clear up MY concerns over the website, and I wanted to answer your concerns over the donation, plus any other concerns that may be leading you to act in this childish manner. Perhaps you did not hear or understand this from the beginning, but you continually insinuate that the reason I wanted Dave there to, was speak to you guys about kidney donations. That is not the case, but even if it was, the extent of your irrational demonisation of him is incredible. You still can't even bring yourself to address him by name.
Seriously, pleasetake a look at yourself, and what you are writing.
Quote
sWord
If Ashwyn would only learn Unix and host the site on their own Apache server, they could look at the IP address of every visitor. As it is, their
script which you can see at [jesuschristians.net] contains an URL [pub40.bravenet.com]
and if you go there, click on "VIEW SITE STATS". All pretty tame stuff. They can tell what Operating System, what screen resolution, what browser visitors are using. But NOT your email address.
Good answer Nick, perhaps you might even go so far as to call it "hit counter code", as it is commonly known. Otherwise you play into the rampant paranioa about email address harvesting that people have. And you wouldn't want to play into people's paranoia, would you?
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: February 21, 2007 04:27PM
Quote
apostate wrote:
Now he is believing their "he who has two should give to those who have none" bible interpretation as applying to body parts, as his desire to please this false god; created in the image of David McKay, is back stopped by other group sycophants.
Ashwyn wrote:
Strip away all the emotive and obfuscating language there and what are you left with? Now Ashwyn believes that those who have two should give to those who have none. Well, I guess you got me on that one.
Strip away the smoke screen and what do you see? Denial that David Mckay does in fact quote John the Baptist to encourage kidney donations, and that Ashwyn agrees with his "annointed apostle" regarding this.
Ashwyn you come across as though you are getting some sort of enjoyment out calling your parents childish.
You need to know that David McKay is a pharisee that teaches children to disrespect their parents, in order to follow his teachings. Jesus himself teaches against such people. Check out Mark 7:9 - 13 for his thoughts on "Corban". A concept where children are taught they can take away from their parents to "give to God".
David McKay supports taking away from parents the money they have laid up for their children's education, if the parents have put that money into their account earmarked for that purpose. Where is the ethical support for this. Do you really think that an non-materialistic God would care about such things? Can you not imagine how much impact this would have upon the parents of such children?
One day you will look back upon this hardness you are showing the people who raised you with deep regret; hopefully you will still have both kidneys when you do.
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: February 21, 2007 05:16PM
Ash here are some teachings from your own group you can use to shine a light on your and Dave's actions. It is taken from "Try the Spirits".
A. Fruit/Love
One test is to look at the effects (or fruit) of what a person is saying. (Matthew 7:20) When a person does or says something, ask yourself, "Why is this being said, and what will it lead to?" Any spirit that comes from God will come from and/or lead to spirits like love, happiness, honesty, and humility. (Galatians 5:22-23)
When people are saying why they disagree with another person, they may be doing it because they love the other person. (Hebrews 12:6) But if they are not acting out of love, there will be anger in what they are saying, with very little thinking about how to fix the problem. They will be more interesting in hurting the other person. This is a bad spirit.
[b:b00a5bdf3d]
Ash, you do not come across with a spirit of love, happiness, honesty, and humility to me[/b:b00a5bdf3d]
B. Teachings of Jesus
Here is another test. Look at how much a person loves the teachings of Jesus. (II John 9) Many people say they are Christians, but they do not think the teachings of Jesus are very important. (Luke 6:46) They argue against obeying Jesus, for one reason or another. These people have a bad spirit.
[b:b00a5bdf3d]Listen to Dave argue against the teachings of Jesus regarding "Corban" where children should respect their parents[/b:b00a5bdf3d]
D. What they Say
One of the easiest ways to know what spirit is in a person is to listen closely to what they say. The spirit that is in them will come out through their mouth. (Matthew 12:34-35)
[b:b00a5bdf3d]
"Annointed Apostle", "Capatin of this ship", "Reject us, reject God", "God's chosen elect"[/b:b00a5bdf3d]
E. Talking in Secret
People who do not have God's Spirit are not honest. They say different things to different people. They do not want many people to listen when they say things. They want to talk to you away from other people. This is because they want to tell you lies about people who are not there, and because they will be free to tell lies about what you said in return.
If a person is telling the truth, they will want others to hear what they are saying. (John 3:20-21) Do not talk to people who want to talk to you secretly. (Luke 12:1-3)
[b:b00a5bdf3d]
David McKay often trys to talk with people secretly, in fact his leader's meeting are designed to be meetings where elect leaders can speak behind the backs of "followers"[/b:b00a5bdf3d]
F. Money
The last rule is to study the way people act and talk about money. The Bible says that it will tell us much about where their heart is. (Matthew 6:21-23) If they lose interest in working for God when there is no money in it for them, and if they are quick to give arguments against giving money to others, or if they only become enthusiastic about something when they receive money for doing it, it is a good sign that they do not have God's Spirit. (Titus 1:11)
[b:b00a5bdf3d]Listen to how much David McKay talks about money, everything centres around $$$. Tract quota's, court cases, deliberate air ticket bumpings, demanding that young members give the money their parents laid up for their education to him, keeping his trips overseas to within a 12 month time frame so as to not lose his welfare housing in Australia.[/b:b00a5bdf3d]
A. Fruit/Love
One test is to look at the effects (or fruit) of what a person is saying. (Matthew 7:20) When a person does or says something, ask yourself, "Why is this being said, and what will it lead to?" Any spirit that comes from God will come from and/or lead to spirits like love, happiness, honesty, and humility. (Galatians 5:22-23)
When people are saying why they disagree with another person, they may be doing it because they love the other person. (Hebrews 12:6) But if they are not acting out of love, there will be anger in what they are saying, with very little thinking about how to fix the problem. They will be more interesting in hurting the other person. This is a bad spirit.
[b:b00a5bdf3d]
Ash, you do not come across with a spirit of love, happiness, honesty, and humility to me[/b:b00a5bdf3d]
B. Teachings of Jesus
Here is another test. Look at how much a person loves the teachings of Jesus. (II John 9) Many people say they are Christians, but they do not think the teachings of Jesus are very important. (Luke 6:46) They argue against obeying Jesus, for one reason or another. These people have a bad spirit.
[b:b00a5bdf3d]Listen to Dave argue against the teachings of Jesus regarding "Corban" where children should respect their parents[/b:b00a5bdf3d]
D. What they Say
One of the easiest ways to know what spirit is in a person is to listen closely to what they say. The spirit that is in them will come out through their mouth. (Matthew 12:34-35)
[b:b00a5bdf3d]
"Annointed Apostle", "Capatin of this ship", "Reject us, reject God", "God's chosen elect"[/b:b00a5bdf3d]
E. Talking in Secret
People who do not have God's Spirit are not honest. They say different things to different people. They do not want many people to listen when they say things. They want to talk to you away from other people. This is because they want to tell you lies about people who are not there, and because they will be free to tell lies about what you said in return.
If a person is telling the truth, they will want others to hear what they are saying. (John 3:20-21) Do not talk to people who want to talk to you secretly. (Luke 12:1-3)
[b:b00a5bdf3d]
David McKay often trys to talk with people secretly, in fact his leader's meeting are designed to be meetings where elect leaders can speak behind the backs of "followers"[/b:b00a5bdf3d]
F. Money
The last rule is to study the way people act and talk about money. The Bible says that it will tell us much about where their heart is. (Matthew 6:21-23) If they lose interest in working for God when there is no money in it for them, and if they are quick to give arguments against giving money to others, or if they only become enthusiastic about something when they receive money for doing it, it is a good sign that they do not have God's Spirit. (Titus 1:11)
[b:b00a5bdf3d]Listen to how much David McKay talks about money, everything centres around $$$. Tract quota's, court cases, deliberate air ticket bumpings, demanding that young members give the money their parents laid up for their education to him, keeping his trips overseas to within a 12 month time frame so as to not lose his welfare housing in Australia.[/b:b00a5bdf3d]
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: February 23, 2007 07:34PM
(Nice effort Apostate!! Very comprehensive!!)
Dear Ash,
We have never met (although you would have already heard me mocked often enough in the JC), nor have I ever met your parents (but naturally enough, I have a sneaking sympathy towards them as an "ex-member") could you explain why David was so keen on the "kidney donations" and not interested at all in something so simple as donating blood to the Red Cross, (...both of these worthy gestures save lives), because the impression an outside observer gets is that David was only interested in whatever "publicity" he could "buy" and not in any "intrinsic altruism" of "saving lives" consequently as donating blood is too "common" to serve for the (real) purposes of self -promotion, members of the Jesus Christians have never done so (or been admonished by David to do so).
(Not knowing you personally, I acknowledge the possible magnaminity of your own "kidney donation" and trust that it was done in all sincerity...forgive me however if I continue to suspect David of a litte less than that, for the reasons I have just outlined..)
Let him who has two, give to him who has none. I regret to declare that I only have one "heart".....(so umm, sorry... David!!)
Dear Ash,
We have never met (although you would have already heard me mocked often enough in the JC), nor have I ever met your parents (but naturally enough, I have a sneaking sympathy towards them as an "ex-member") could you explain why David was so keen on the "kidney donations" and not interested at all in something so simple as donating blood to the Red Cross, (...both of these worthy gestures save lives), because the impression an outside observer gets is that David was only interested in whatever "publicity" he could "buy" and not in any "intrinsic altruism" of "saving lives" consequently as donating blood is too "common" to serve for the (real) purposes of self -promotion, members of the Jesus Christians have never done so (or been admonished by David to do so).
(Not knowing you personally, I acknowledge the possible magnaminity of your own "kidney donation" and trust that it was done in all sincerity...forgive me however if I continue to suspect David of a litte less than that, for the reasons I have just outlined..)
Let him who has two, give to him who has none. I regret to declare that I only have one "heart".....(so umm, sorry... David!!)
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
cait
()
Date: February 23, 2007 08:28PM
Quote
ashwyn
[I don't know about me denouncing anyone, but you continue to think that you can have it both ways.
Good to hear you haven't forgotten your AC/DC numbers Ash, and better still to receive word of you. Many thanks for this - I mean it.
I don't know that wanting to keep our relationship intact has to be diametrically opposed to not specially wanting to form a relationship with some-one with whom I have no empathy or basis of agreement, i.e. David John MacKay, who I [b:3a7922be70][i:3a7922be70]can[/i:3a7922be70][/b:3a7922be70] name. I recall a similar situation with a school friend of yours who I will not name. As a child you didn't need to force that point on me, and I now hope your maturity will lead you to greater acceptance.
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
hello
()
Date: March 01, 2007 05:14AM
Dear Cait,
just wanted you to know that I have been praying for both you Sword and Ash. A lot of people out there can empathise with the awful time you're having. You're not alone.
just wanted you to know that I have been praying for both you Sword and Ash. A lot of people out there can empathise with the awful time you're having. You're not alone.
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: March 02, 2007 06:44PM
The Top 40 commands of Jesus Dave ignores or reinterprets (The JC interpretation is in italics)
[list:6661e5a820]1. *Obey my commandments* - Jn 14:15, 21, 23; II Jn 6
[i:6661e5a820]Obey Dave’s commandments[/i:6661e5a820]
2. *Love God and others *- Jn 15:12, Mt 22:37-40
[i:6661e5a820]If you reject Dave you are rejecting God[/i:6661e5a820]
3. *Go and preach to all the world *- Mk 16:15, Mt 28:19
[i:6661e5a820]Ignore cultural appropriateness… they are sinners anyway.[/i:6661e5a820]
4. *Don't delay, do it now *- Jn 4:35, 9:4, 12:35
[i:6661e5a820]Don’t stop to think if it is right or wrong just tell em they are wrong![/i:6661e5a820]
5. *Take nothing for your journey* - Lk 9:3, 10:4
[i:6661e5a820]Except a 4wd, trailer load of money making tracts, a few lap tops, well it means nothing you can’t carry or ship.[/i:6661e5a820]
6. *Don't work for food *- Jn 6:27, Mt 6:24-33, Lk 12:29
[i:6661e5a820]But it is OK to sell booklets for $$$ because we can use that[/i:6661e5a820]
7. *Work for me & my kingdom* - Mt 11:28-30, Lk 12:31
[i:6661e5a820]Work for Dave and HIS kingdom.[/i:6661e5a820]
8. *Sell all that you own* - Lk 11:41, 12:33, 18:22
[i:6661e5a820]Or give it to us.[/i:6661e5a820]
9. *Don't store things that you're not using* - Mt 6:19
[i:6661e5a820]Except newspaper clippings, Mo books, tracts, etc.[/i:6661e5a820]
10. *Don't charge for what you do* - Mt 10:8
[i:6661e5a820]You better meet your doney distributing quota of at least $60 per 100 tracts[/i:6661e5a820]
11. *Give to God what belongs to God *- Lk 20:25, Mt 22:21
[i:6661e5a820]Because we are God’s “elect” it all belongs to us. So give it to us.[/i:6661e5a820]
12. *Don't waste time on argumentative people *- Mt 7:6
[i:6661e5a820]It is OK to bait people and cause arguments because it makes people think we are being persecuted[/i:6661e5a820]
13. *Invite the poor to eat with you *- Lk 14:12-14
[i:6661e5a820]Then tell them to give all their possessions to you, because God hates their greed.[/i:6661e5a820]
14. *Give to anyone who asks *- Lk 6:30, Mk 6:37
[i:6661e5a820]Except non JC’s[/i:6661e5a820]
15. *If you pray, fast, or give, do it secretly* - Mt 6:1-11
[i:6661e5a820]But make sure everybody KNOWS you are doing it secretly.[/i:6661e5a820]
16. *Don't use vain repetitions when praying *- Mt 6:7
[i:6661e5a820]Don’t ask Dave too many questions[/i:6661e5a820]
17. *Don't advertise healings* - Mt 9:30, 12:16
[i:6661e5a820]Do advertise kidney donations.[/i:6661e5a820]
18. *Take the lowest position in meetings *- Lk 14:8-10
[i:6661e5a820]Doesn’t apply to JC’s because we are the “elect” of God.[/i:6661e5a820]
19. *Don't be called Father, Mister, etc. *- Mt 23:9-10
[i:6661e5a820]But instead be called “Captain of the ship”, “Anointed Apostle”, “Leader”, “Graduate”, “elect of God”[/i:6661e5a820]
20. *Beware of hypocrisy and greed* - Lk 12:1, 15
[i:6661e5a820]Which has deceived and carried away the whole world which lies OUTSIDE of the JC’s[/i:6661e5a820]
21. *Take up your cross and follow me *- Mk 8:34
[i:6661e5a820]Take up you whip and follow Dave[/i:6661e5a820]
22. *Live in me, and live in my love *- Jn 15:4, 9
[i:6661e5a820]Leave the JC’s and you will be dammed[/i:6661e5a820]
23. *Eat whatever people give you *- Lk 10:7
[i:6661e5a820]Criticize them afterwards where they cannot hear you.[/i:6661e5a820]
24. *Rejoice when you are persecuted* - Lk 6:23
[i:6661e5a820]We haven’t been persecuted yet, but we do rejoice when we upset people.[/i:6661e5a820]
25. *Move to another city if persecuted* - Mt 10:23
[i:6661e5a820]Move to another city if people start to wake up to the fact that you are scamming them[/i:6661e5a820]
26. *Love, bless, and pray for your enemies *- Lk 6:27-29
[i:6661e5a820]Offer to whip your enemies or to shave their head for the sins they have committed against you[/i:6661e5a820]
27. *Do to others as you'd have them do to you *- Lk 6:31
[i:6661e5a820]We do to others before they get a chance to do to us because we don’t trust them.[/i:6661e5a820]
28. *Be agreeable with your adversaries *- Lk 12:58, Mt 5:25
[i:6661e5a820]Take them to court for $$$[/i:6661e5a820]
29. *Forgive others* - Mk 11:25-26, Mt 6:12, Lk 6:37
[i:6661e5a820]Take them to court for $$$[/i:6661e5a820]
30. *Cut off your hand if it offends you *- Mk 9:43
[i:6661e5a820]Imagine carrying a knife in your pocket; that is good enough.[/i:6661e5a820]
31. *Don't be afraid of people* - Lk 12:4-5
[i:6661e5a820]Be afraid of ex members because they will lead you astray from the doctrines of Dave[/i:6661e5a820]
32. *Let the dead bury the dead *- Mt 8:22
[i:6661e5a820]You only have to think about yourself.[/i:6661e5a820]
33. *Rebuke a brother if he sins *- Lk 17:3, Mt 18:15-17
[i:6661e5a820]Then whip him, after making him feel bad that you bluffingly offer your own back up first.[/i:6661e5a820]
34. *When you judge, do it fairly* - Jn 7:24
[i:6661e5a820]System Judges are corrupt. Only JC’s judges can judge fairly[/i:6661e5a820]
35. *You must be born again*- Jn 3:3, Lk 18:17, Mk 10:15
[i:6661e5a820]You must unquestioningly see things OUR way.[/i:6661e5a820]
36. *Don't make promises for any reason* - Mt 5:34-37
[i:6661e5a820]Because it is harder to break your word if you get too specific[/i:6661e5a820]
37. *Don't sell things in God's house* - Jn 2:16
[i:6661e5a820]But out on the street is OK[/i:6661e5a820]
38. *Don't forbid others to preach Christ *- Lk 9:50
[i:6661e5a820]Unless the are not JC’s of course[/i:6661e5a820]
39. *Teach all nations to obey these rules* - Mt 28:20
[i:6661e5a820]Teach all nations that Dave’s interpretations are the most correct.[/i:6661e5a820]
40. *When you have done all these things, say, "We have only done that which was our duty to do." *- Lk 17:10
[i:6661e5a820]We have faithfully carried out all the commands our Anointed Apostle Dave has required of us.[/i:6661e5a820]
[/list:u:6661e5a820]
[b:6661e5a820]Don't mention CORBAN.[/b:6661e5a820]
[list:6661e5a820]1. *Obey my commandments* - Jn 14:15, 21, 23; II Jn 6
[i:6661e5a820]Obey Dave’s commandments[/i:6661e5a820]
2. *Love God and others *- Jn 15:12, Mt 22:37-40
[i:6661e5a820]If you reject Dave you are rejecting God[/i:6661e5a820]
3. *Go and preach to all the world *- Mk 16:15, Mt 28:19
[i:6661e5a820]Ignore cultural appropriateness… they are sinners anyway.[/i:6661e5a820]
4. *Don't delay, do it now *- Jn 4:35, 9:4, 12:35
[i:6661e5a820]Don’t stop to think if it is right or wrong just tell em they are wrong![/i:6661e5a820]
5. *Take nothing for your journey* - Lk 9:3, 10:4
[i:6661e5a820]Except a 4wd, trailer load of money making tracts, a few lap tops, well it means nothing you can’t carry or ship.[/i:6661e5a820]
6. *Don't work for food *- Jn 6:27, Mt 6:24-33, Lk 12:29
[i:6661e5a820]But it is OK to sell booklets for $$$ because we can use that[/i:6661e5a820]
7. *Work for me & my kingdom* - Mt 11:28-30, Lk 12:31
[i:6661e5a820]Work for Dave and HIS kingdom.[/i:6661e5a820]
8. *Sell all that you own* - Lk 11:41, 12:33, 18:22
[i:6661e5a820]Or give it to us.[/i:6661e5a820]
9. *Don't store things that you're not using* - Mt 6:19
[i:6661e5a820]Except newspaper clippings, Mo books, tracts, etc.[/i:6661e5a820]
10. *Don't charge for what you do* - Mt 10:8
[i:6661e5a820]You better meet your doney distributing quota of at least $60 per 100 tracts[/i:6661e5a820]
11. *Give to God what belongs to God *- Lk 20:25, Mt 22:21
[i:6661e5a820]Because we are God’s “elect” it all belongs to us. So give it to us.[/i:6661e5a820]
12. *Don't waste time on argumentative people *- Mt 7:6
[i:6661e5a820]It is OK to bait people and cause arguments because it makes people think we are being persecuted[/i:6661e5a820]
13. *Invite the poor to eat with you *- Lk 14:12-14
[i:6661e5a820]Then tell them to give all their possessions to you, because God hates their greed.[/i:6661e5a820]
14. *Give to anyone who asks *- Lk 6:30, Mk 6:37
[i:6661e5a820]Except non JC’s[/i:6661e5a820]
15. *If you pray, fast, or give, do it secretly* - Mt 6:1-11
[i:6661e5a820]But make sure everybody KNOWS you are doing it secretly.[/i:6661e5a820]
16. *Don't use vain repetitions when praying *- Mt 6:7
[i:6661e5a820]Don’t ask Dave too many questions[/i:6661e5a820]
17. *Don't advertise healings* - Mt 9:30, 12:16
[i:6661e5a820]Do advertise kidney donations.[/i:6661e5a820]
18. *Take the lowest position in meetings *- Lk 14:8-10
[i:6661e5a820]Doesn’t apply to JC’s because we are the “elect” of God.[/i:6661e5a820]
19. *Don't be called Father, Mister, etc. *- Mt 23:9-10
[i:6661e5a820]But instead be called “Captain of the ship”, “Anointed Apostle”, “Leader”, “Graduate”, “elect of God”[/i:6661e5a820]
20. *Beware of hypocrisy and greed* - Lk 12:1, 15
[i:6661e5a820]Which has deceived and carried away the whole world which lies OUTSIDE of the JC’s[/i:6661e5a820]
21. *Take up your cross and follow me *- Mk 8:34
[i:6661e5a820]Take up you whip and follow Dave[/i:6661e5a820]
22. *Live in me, and live in my love *- Jn 15:4, 9
[i:6661e5a820]Leave the JC’s and you will be dammed[/i:6661e5a820]
23. *Eat whatever people give you *- Lk 10:7
[i:6661e5a820]Criticize them afterwards where they cannot hear you.[/i:6661e5a820]
24. *Rejoice when you are persecuted* - Lk 6:23
[i:6661e5a820]We haven’t been persecuted yet, but we do rejoice when we upset people.[/i:6661e5a820]
25. *Move to another city if persecuted* - Mt 10:23
[i:6661e5a820]Move to another city if people start to wake up to the fact that you are scamming them[/i:6661e5a820]
26. *Love, bless, and pray for your enemies *- Lk 6:27-29
[i:6661e5a820]Offer to whip your enemies or to shave their head for the sins they have committed against you[/i:6661e5a820]
27. *Do to others as you'd have them do to you *- Lk 6:31
[i:6661e5a820]We do to others before they get a chance to do to us because we don’t trust them.[/i:6661e5a820]
28. *Be agreeable with your adversaries *- Lk 12:58, Mt 5:25
[i:6661e5a820]Take them to court for $$$[/i:6661e5a820]
29. *Forgive others* - Mk 11:25-26, Mt 6:12, Lk 6:37
[i:6661e5a820]Take them to court for $$$[/i:6661e5a820]
30. *Cut off your hand if it offends you *- Mk 9:43
[i:6661e5a820]Imagine carrying a knife in your pocket; that is good enough.[/i:6661e5a820]
31. *Don't be afraid of people* - Lk 12:4-5
[i:6661e5a820]Be afraid of ex members because they will lead you astray from the doctrines of Dave[/i:6661e5a820]
32. *Let the dead bury the dead *- Mt 8:22
[i:6661e5a820]You only have to think about yourself.[/i:6661e5a820]
33. *Rebuke a brother if he sins *- Lk 17:3, Mt 18:15-17
[i:6661e5a820]Then whip him, after making him feel bad that you bluffingly offer your own back up first.[/i:6661e5a820]
34. *When you judge, do it fairly* - Jn 7:24
[i:6661e5a820]System Judges are corrupt. Only JC’s judges can judge fairly[/i:6661e5a820]
35. *You must be born again*- Jn 3:3, Lk 18:17, Mk 10:15
[i:6661e5a820]You must unquestioningly see things OUR way.[/i:6661e5a820]
36. *Don't make promises for any reason* - Mt 5:34-37
[i:6661e5a820]Because it is harder to break your word if you get too specific[/i:6661e5a820]
37. *Don't sell things in God's house* - Jn 2:16
[i:6661e5a820]But out on the street is OK[/i:6661e5a820]
38. *Don't forbid others to preach Christ *- Lk 9:50
[i:6661e5a820]Unless the are not JC’s of course[/i:6661e5a820]
39. *Teach all nations to obey these rules* - Mt 28:20
[i:6661e5a820]Teach all nations that Dave’s interpretations are the most correct.[/i:6661e5a820]
40. *When you have done all these things, say, "We have only done that which was our duty to do." *- Lk 17:10
[i:6661e5a820]We have faithfully carried out all the commands our Anointed Apostle Dave has required of us.[/i:6661e5a820]
[/list:u:6661e5a820]
[b:6661e5a820]Don't mention CORBAN.[/b:6661e5a820]
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
cait
()
Date: March 03, 2007 09:32PM
Quote
apostateQuote
apostate wrote:
Now he is believing their "he who has two should give to those who have none" bible interpretation as applying to body parts, as his desire to please this false god; created in the image of David McKay, is back stopped by other group sycophants.
Ashwyn wrote:
Strip away all the emotive and obfuscating language there and what are you left with? Now Ashwyn believes that those who have two should give to those who have none. Well, I guess you got me on that one.
Strip away the smoke screen and what do you see? Denial that David Mckay does in fact quote John the Baptist to encourage kidney donations, and that Ashwyn agrees with his "annointed apostle" regarding this.
Ashwyn you come across as though you are getting some sort of enjoyment out calling your parents childish.
You need to know that David McKay is a pharisee that teaches children to disrespect their parents, in order to follow his teachings. Jesus himself teaches against such people. Check out Mark 7:9 - 13 for his thoughts on "Corban". A concept where children are taught they can take away from their parents to "give to God".
David McKay supports taking away from parents the money they have laid up for their children's education, if the parents have put that money into their account earmarked for that purpose. Where is the ethical support for this. Do you really think that an non-materialistic God would care about such things? Can you not imagine how much impact this would have upon the parents of such children?
One day you will look back upon this hardness you are showing the people who raised you with deep regret; hopefully you will still have both kidneys when you do.
Well I never thought I would find myself saying this to anyone, but Apostate, Matilda, and Malcolm, I've got to say it to you guys : you really do rock my world!
I've never looked at Mark 7 in particular, and always avoided any dealing in biblical quotations, in the belief that fanatics will always twist them to suit the need of the moment, but that really is not the case with David McKay : sWord has noticed that he hardly refers to the Bible at all, on the whole : I s'pose since it can rarely be found to support his teaching, it's best ignored.
It has been quite an eye-opener to learn that current JCs must come to look on their friends and family as punters to be discarded after use, much as Fagan's recruits had to do. So much for not being put off by use-by dates : in their world, packaged food clearly rates well above parents.
Consequently, it is a real source of joy and comfort to see scripture applied so caringly and appropriately. "CORBAN" is a term I have never come across before. I got busy, and found another reference in Matthew 15:5-6. No doubt David M will have some sick.. oops! I mean sycophantic retort with accompanying quote, but it ain't turned up yet.
When Ashwyn left our home, he explained to us that the magnitude of the heartbreak that Dave and Cherry had experienced on having their children leave the JCs was so much greater than whatever we might be thinking we felt - imagine our surprise to learn the truth on this one...
I really can't accept that Truth should be the victim of any Christian ever, and I suppose a real turning point for us was when we started receiving emails with signatures expounding the radical and superlative nature of Truth, when we well knew that non-commitment, avoidance and lies were the signature notes of much of their correspondence : a died in-the-wool Systemite viewpoint, I know, but one we were unable to swallow.
Til then, we had preferred to turn a blind eye to the jcs creative approach to truthfulness in the interests of maintaining meaningful contact, frankly because we love the guy, and had grown to love Ross as well. It was very sad when it became apparent how hard it was for Ash to have to tolerate our company and hospitality in between the desperately-craved doses of Dave.
We would still rather be a poor substitute than a non-starter, should our service and support ever be of interest to any of these chaps whose acquaintance we have made, including Vicky and the girls, tho there doesn't look to be much hope of that in the near future.
All the more reason to be glad of the comfort and clarity to be found in your midst, and for your prayers - thanks Hello.
***I wonder who it was who once wrote of a pig who lay down in the gutter beside a drunk, saying : "you can tell a man who boozes by the company he chooses - and the pig got up and sloowly walked away..."
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: March 04, 2007 06:25AM
Quote
caitQuote
Well I never thought I would find myself saying this to anyone, but Apostate, Matilda, and Malcolm, I've got to say it to you guys : you really do rock my world!
No problems Cait, it is good to be able to help and expose "Fagan". :)Quote
Consequently, it is a real source of joy and comfort to see scripture applied so caringly and appropriately. "CORBAN" is a term I have never come across before. I got busy, and found another reference in Matthew 15:5-6. No doubt David M will have some sick.. oops! I mean sycophantic retort with accompanying quote, but it ain't turned up yet.
I am sure he is trying to make one up as we speak. It will probably be something like "Ash is honouring you guys by obeying Dave's interpretations, and therefore you as parents can be looked upon with honour because of what your son does while in the service of the JC's". A similar speel to the one mothers have to swallow in Palestine when they learn of their son's actions in Hamas. Honouring one's parents in this context has nothing to do with respecting or following parental direction.Quote
When Ashwyn left our home, he explained to us that the magnitude of the heartbreak that Dave and Cherry had experienced on having their children leave the JCs was so much greater than whatever we might be thinking we felt - imagine our surprise to learn the truth on this one...
This is a beauty. Ash was not there. I was there for each of Dave's children "leaving". It was a messy affair. The first son left as a result of being fed up with his dad's continual need to control what went on between his wife and children. Dave would continually interfere in his son's parenting style or way he and his wife had decided to raise their children. Dave tried to break up his first son's marriage by speaking secretly to his son's wife as he was leaving.
His other two children were driven out by similar antics and by their refusal to follow Dave in his lies and manipulations. Dave surrounded those two children with such a wall of lies and false accusations that any current member would believe that to speak with them would be to hold hands with the devil.
It is interesting that Ashwyn holds up the suffering of Dave during all this, as opposed to the suffering of the children he , to this day, refuses to have anything to do with even though they have many times tried to maintain civil communication with him.
I find it interesting because Dave has effectively set himself up as a defacto parent of all these young people, and reinforced in their minds that they would be hurting HIM to leave the group. He has, through emotional manipulation, created a co dependent situation because Ash would not want to hurt Dave because of the "magnitude of heartbreak" Dave assures him he experienced previously. Dave is using the very tactic he accuses you of doing. This is so typical of him. Every behaviour he himself engages in he projects onto others.Quote
Til then, we had preferred to turn a blind eye to the jcs creative approach to truthfulness in the interests of maintaining meaningful contact, frankly because we love the guy, and had grown to love Ross as well. It was very sad when it became apparent how hard it was for Ash to have to tolerate our company and hospitality in between the desperately-craved doses of Dave.
"Relating" is something the JC's do to appear to be on the same wave length with non JC's. This they do as a way of disarming those they are targetting. It would have served some purpose for them to be "relating" with you both while your son Ash was being indoctrinated. This they have learnt from experience. Appear "harmless and doves", but be as "wise as serpents" they say while doing so. Use the occasional secret password. It used to be "selah" when I was in. This was used when meeting with non JC's as a way of cautioning and preventing new recruits from saying things that might tip their hand and cause reaction before they were ready to generate it.
The time you used to tolerate their fanciful interpretations was used by them to indoctrinate Ash and convince him of their "sincerity", to the point that he then believed their scam.
Ross is very good at appearing innocuous, partly because he is so passive when away from Dave. But it is his passivity that renders him putty in Dave's hands because he is dependent upon Dave accepting him. In order to get this acceptance Ross will quickly turn on those he may have even formed a genuine relation of agreeance with. He did it with us in Sydney, in that he totally and completely agreed with what we were saying, but upon leaving us took on board Dave's presentation of fact as truth. Such is the curse of passivity, I guess.Quote
We would still rather be a poor substitute than a non-starter, should our service and support ever be of interest to any of these chaps whose acquaintance we have made, including Vicky and the girls, tho there doesn't look to be much hope of that in the near future.
I was a bit saddened to hear the news that Vicky had rejoined the JC's. She was not treated very well when she was in the group. Her and Ross almost got married, but Dave put an end to that by tunring up the heat on her. She broke under the strain of it all.
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