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ashwyn
you continually insinuate that the reason I wanted Dave there to, was speak to you guys about kidney donations. [b:a3e567de09]That is not the case,[/b:a3e567de09] but even if it was, the extent of your irrational demonisation of him is incredible.

Your words were something like "Dave can explain it better." I think you're in a daze Ashwyn. Get your mind, body and self back.

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hello
Have you seen the " dreams" thread on his forum. He admits to hallucinating- a demon- no less! Dave is in such severe denial.
He is so smug and self- satisfied- he seeks to recruit converts as a buffer for his own ego. The fact that his group are dependent on his literature- and for many- his approval- makes for a truly toxic relationship.

Thanks for the reference, Hello. Both toxic and tasteless stuff on this thread. Single-minded as I am, I see Ash had a dream in Kenya warning him to get the hell out, and with assisted interpretation has managed to read it as God's call for him to be more protective of his mates.

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ashwyn
NOTE TO THE MODERATOR: I am not sure whether you will class this email as 'trolling' or not, given your past record,
but please understand that I am merely trying to excercise a right of reply towards the slander that has been directed against me.
[b:caeb0b0587]I have been accused of theft[/b:caeb0b0587].

No Ash. I haven't accused you of theft. It's McKay. He's written the handbook "Forsaking your parents", directed at young people
like yourself, with advice on how to take stuff your parents think isn't available for giving away. To take it and bring it to him.

And what about the money? When we put it in your account, there was a bit of a family talk about how it was there for your Tafe
course. I remember saying "It's not for going to the movies of buying burgers OK". (Meaning: it's for the course, nothing else).
You nodded in assent and smiled. The man who told you not to make promises (based on a false reading of Mt 5:34-37) is the thief.
You're just the gullible kid in this.

For every day you've lived, McKay has lived three. I can see what he's doing even if you can't. I'm the same age as he is.

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ashwyn

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sWord
Very puzzling indeed was what happened to my web-server which had to run 24/7. I'd borrowed a 2nd hand floppy drive from him. He tried to retrieve it without stopping the machine. Burnt out the motherboard and left the machine quite useless. All for a $5 floppy drive.

It is similar to the problem the is puzzling me at the moment. [i:529eac09da]That is, where you found people selling second hand floppy drives for $5? That is a bit of a rip off if you ask me[/i:529eac09da]. And no, of course I did not attempt to take the floppy drive. Nor have I stolen anything from you, if I give something to you, it is yours. I have always thought that the same applied in reverse.

You're dodging the issue here, like the MasterBeta does, you've learnt from him. The price is NOT the issue. We can't use any loose nuances, you pounce like lawyers on the poetic.

Fact: the computer was running when I left.
Fact: the computer needed to boot off a floppy disk
Fact: the computer was off when I got back.
Fact: the floppy drive was disconnected. The pins in the socket were bent. The floppy controller on the mobo was burnt out.
Fact: the last activity on the computer (which I later read when I put the hard disk in another machine) dated to about
the time when you emailed us to say you were unable to keep your promise about not joining them.

Someone did it. When I've confronted you over this personally, you give the same smile you give when I remind you that the Tafe money was not for giving away.

A kind of guilty "wish-this-wasn't-happening" look.

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Ashwyn

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sWord
If Ashwyn would only learn Unix and host the site on their own Apache server, they could look at the IP address of every visitor. As it is, their
script which you can see at [jesuschristians.net] contains an URL [pub40.bravenet.com]
and if you go there, click on "VIEW SITE STATS". All pretty tame stuff. They can tell what Operating System, what screen resolution, what browser visitors are using. [b:529eac09da]But NOT your email address[/b:529eac09da].

Good answer Nick, perhaps you might even go so far as to call it "hit counter code", as it is commonly known. Otherwise you play into the rampant paranioa about email address harvesting that people have. And you wouldn't want to play into people's paranoia, would you?

Fair enough Ash. I just kept it as code.htm for ages. It's now as you recommend [jesuschristians.net]

How could I play into any rampant paranoia when I've just dismissed it? Look at the words in [b:529eac09da]Bold[/b:529eac09da] above. In fact look at the whole block you quoted.

You used to have such a wonderful critical mind as a teenager. You're McKay's zombie now. You can still do stuff, but you can't see yourself.
And anything your silly old parents write you dismiss, in the way that young people have always done.
Until they mature and look back on their dumb past.

Poor Ash,

He's badly deluded if he can genuinely try to "console" sWord and Cait with some..."it was worse for David.." fantasy. God knows how they did it, but both Kevin and Sherry somehow had both the wisdom to be able to see through their father as well as the courage to be able to stand up to him....Davids personal treachery was directly responsible for their decisions to leave the JesusChristians, there was no “sacrifice” on Davids’ part....(of course, no doubt he was sincerely grieved that they ultimately refused to "play along" with it all....but if it had to come down to a choice between keeping his "empire" intact or keeping the love and respect of his children, well...the choice was always going to be clear, wasn't it!!)....there is no comparsion whatsoever with the completely unmerited heart-ache, sWord and Cait have been put through).

David must now "use" the episode internally as a "ripping yarn" of how devoted and "selfless" a leader he really is…...just like one of the old epic Norse viking sagas....(ohh ...GROAN!!) javascript:emoticon(':cry:')

(...and now my young JC's, let your anointed apostle finish this bedtime tale with the moral of this story, which is, is "Youth and idealism are never a match for age and treachery" Whoops! Where did that come from??... I mean, rather "[i:7e58fea03f]Do you suppose that I am here to bring peace on Earth? Not at all, I tell you but rather discord, for from now on five will be odds in one home, three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father.....[/i:7e58fea03f])


...and Ash, if David has become "ennobled" by his own (staged) sacrifices, why don't the same considerations apply to your own parents or Joe Johnson’s family or any of the other parents or family of current members....is it because if they just so happen to be "systemites" that you can justify to yourself disregarding them....Apparently the blind man, Jesus healed (and who defended him before the Pharisees in John Chap. 9 or even Lazarus, whom Christ raised from the dead, in John 11) did not join the Jesus and the disciples, and presumably they then continued to live with their parents and extended families and remained “systemites” employed in the particular occupations, they had prior to their encounter with Jesus.

Why didn’t Jesus DEMAND that they forsake their families and give all that they have to his group of disciples (as "selfless" David does)…Christ could have dismissed them all as nothing more than “systemites”…yet as there is no record in the scripture of him having done so, perhaps you’d be advised to exercise some caution in being prepared to do as David teaches…

…..or then again we could just instead reach the conclusion that Jesus would have made a particularly poor “Jesus Christian” if he’d have ever had the opportunity….(personally I think David would have turfed him out within a week!!)[code:1:7e58fea03f][list][/list][/code:1:7e58fea03f]

Dear Hello,

I agree with Apostate, that in some jundamental sense, the "rottenness" must have always been there, but in terms of the practises of the Jesus Christians, I think that they have been becoming steadily worse with time(here I measure them across a couple of decades), particularly as David has been forced to even more blatantly blaspheme the Spirit of God (thus committing what Christ defined the "unforgiveable" sin) by continuing to expand on and elaborate the deceit he practises, in repsonse to the increasing public criticism from the likes of the ex-members who post here and other parties (parents and friends)...the sanctimonious cant on the Aust. Quaker Forum certainly reaches new "heights" (read depths??) of self serving hypocrisy in my opinion.

I suppose that its always possible that David really dreamed of a demon, but have you considered the other possiblity that actually it may have just been some poor old Demon having a "nightmare" about David (and the story got passed down the line).....now that would be truly hellish!! My God! What would you have had to have done to deserve that!!!

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Malcolm Wesley WREST
Dear Hello,

I agree with Apostate, that in some jundamental sense, the "rottenness" must have always been there, but in terms of the practises of the Jesus Christians, I think that they have been becoming steadily worse with time(here I measure them across a couple of decades), particularly as David has been forced to even more blatantly blaspheme the Spirit of God (thus committing what Christ defined the "unforgiveable" sin) by continuing to expand on and elaborate the deceit he practises, in repsonse to the increasing public criticism from the likes of the ex-members who post here and other parties (parents and friends)...the sanctimonious cant on the Aust. Quaker Forum certainly reaches new "heights" (read depths??) of self serving hypocrisy in my opinion.

I suppose that its always possible that David really dreamed of a demon, but have you considered the other possiblity that actually it may have just been some poor old Demon having a "nightmare" about David (and the story got passed down the line).....now that would be truly hellish!! My God! What would you have had to have done to deserve that!!!

Just out of interest- what other ailments does David suffer from? So far- he's listed nightmares, hallucinations and sleep paralysis- I know his wife suffers greatly from arthritis- does David suffer from arthritis? Also- does any one know much about his childhood? Was he abused in some way?
I suppose it is amazing to me that the abuse that David dishes out to his followers- he seems to genuinely perceive as love?!
Physical abuse often bonds people to violence for a lifetime.

I just wanted to clarify something. I wondered why people on this thread were not refferring to McKay's demon as a hallucination as such- and were calling it a nightmare instead. I rechecked the dreams thread today- and was shocked to see that the original posting- from a few months ago had been changed. A few months ago he spoke insistently about it being real- not a dream! There was also a reference in one of his posts talking about how people posting should be careful- as Rick Ross might be looking for information.
I remember the fact that he spoke about the demon NOT being a dream with the utmost clarity- and had several conversations with others about this- who also saw the thread.
He's covering his tracks.....
Another example of how the forum is manipulated is that a dear friend of mine- who had been involved in a cult when he was younger- decided to post- as a guest- characteristics of cults. They changed his posting from guest to " fearful"- then attacked him.
Cowardly and dishonest.
He is now saying to his followers that we are accusing him of " being influenced by demons"- has anyone said that? His words- not ours.

Dear Hello,

Again, this type of dishonesty (deliberately misrepresentating people and any they statements they made) started to appear (im writing) decades ago in the first "newsletters" they produced....someone might write in and the letter was then "edited" to produced something that could more easily be riduculed (...to bring this to David's attention was to ask for hours of "grievance meetings" so that your "problems" could be better addressed).

The tendency is magnified on the net where it becomes so much easier to put into practice. I'd like to think that many members of the Jesus Christians (not all of them of course) are genuinely disturbed at this and perhaps like me, just too aware of what the "consequences" would be to make something out of it......I suspect it really borders on "Emporer" complex.

David's refuses to see that what he does denies the very "end"...(the KIngdom of God) that he claims to be championing.....

Yes, Malcolm and hello. Dave has no conscience when it comes to reinventing history, completely changing people's words or manipulating their meanings. Malcolm, I too hope that the current member's are taking note and that they have not just hardened themselves to the truth.

I also believe that this tendency is the reason that there are not more ex-members who speak out against him. Well, that and trauma. Hopefully the way is being paved for more people to join us on this forum. I know of a couple of people who are silent for now, but, may start to speak up one day.