Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
hello
()
Date: March 04, 2007 08:47AM
Without meaning to sound sycophantic- I have to say- well done Apostate- you hit the nail on the head every time! Reading this forum and the comments from yourself, Matilda, Malcolm, Dogmother et al, have been such a comfort to me. Sorry I'm not sharing much- but honestly- I have found this thread such a help. :D
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: March 04, 2007 09:01AM
Quote
hello
Without meaning to sound sycophantic- I have to say- well done Apostate- you hit the nail on the head every time! Reading this forum and the comments from yourself, Matilda, Malcolm, Dogmother et al, have been such a comfort to me. Sorry I'm not sharing much- but honestly- I have found this thread such a help. :D
I personally have found this forum to be useful also. The Jesus Christians have been hoodwinking people for years because they surround themselves with the teachings of Jesus as though they somehow practice these things. This ultimately causes doubt in people because the JC's are not backward in bandying such teachings to attempt to crush the faith others may have. Such teachings a lot of people of the Christian faith are largely unaware of. This unawareness results in Dave getting the upper hand, albeit temporarily, resulting in a forced compliance of new recruits. From there the new recruits are encouraged on a daily basis to read and listen to his interpretations... somewhat similar to "Mo letters" in application. How does one resist, if they have been hoodwinked into thinking they are arguing against the very God they want to follow? Dave uses their own idealism against them.
The "comfort" you are experiencing is knowing you are not rebelling against God, to question Dave or his group... and that you are not alone in your experience.
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
hello
()
Date: March 04, 2007 09:18AM
You are so right. However- I would say- the crux of it all is that Dave is genuinely delusional. I mean, you talk about " hoodwinked"- but the person Dave cons the most is himself. Have you seen the " dreams" thread on his forum. He admits to hallucinating- a demon- no less! Dave is in such severe denial.
He is so smug and self- satisfied- he seeks to recruit converts as a buffer for his own ego. The fact that his group are dependent on his literature- and for many- his approval- makes for a truly toxic relationship.
He is so smug and self- satisfied- he seeks to recruit converts as a buffer for his own ego. The fact that his group are dependent on his literature- and for many- his approval- makes for a truly toxic relationship.
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: March 04, 2007 09:31AM
Quote
hello
You are so right. However- I would say- the crux of it all is that Dave is genuinely delusional. I mean, you talk about " hoodwinked"- but the person Dave cons the most is himself. Have you seen the " dreams" thread on his forum. He admits to hallucinating- a demon- no less! Dave is in such severe denial.
He is so smug and self- satisfied- he seeks to recruit converts as a buffer for his own ego. The fact that his group are dependent on his literature- and for many- his approval- makes for a truly toxic relationship.
I had not seen the dreams thread where he talks of seeing a demon. Sounds a lot like Jimmy Bakker during his time of stress when he was being called to account for his behaviour back in the 90's. Maybe the stress of denial is getting to him and he is seeking sympathy from his followers by such hallucinations.
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
hello
()
Date: March 04, 2007 09:56AM
The stress of denial must be getting to him- he must be exhausted from trying to cover up the lies he's told and the strain of witholding information from his group must be exhausting. I don't think he mentioed it to ellicit sympathy though- more like he's using it to illustrate how close he is to God. :roll:
Was Dave always like this- or has he just gotten progressively worse over the years?
Was Dave always like this- or has he just gotten progressively worse over the years?
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
hello
()
Date: March 04, 2007 10:00AM
In case people don't know- hallucinations are a sympton of severe denial- in line with mental illness.
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: March 04, 2007 10:37AM
Quote
hello
The stress of denial must be getting to him- he must be exhausted from trying to cover up the lies he's told and the strain of witholding information from his group must be exhausting. I don't think he mentioed it to ellicit sympathy though- more like he's using it to illustrate how close he is to God. :roll:
Was Dave always like this- or has he just gotten progressively worse over the years?
I think he has always been like this, but that it has become more noticable since people who have left his group are publicising it more.
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
cait
()
Date: March 04, 2007 05:52PM
Quote
apostateQuote
cait
"CORBAN" is a term I have never come across before. I got busy, and found another reference in Matthew 15:5-6. No doubt David M will have some sick.. oops! I mean sycophantic retort with accompanying quote, but it ain't turned up yet.Quote
apostate
I am sure he is trying to make one up as we speak. It will probably be something like "Ash is honouring you guys by obeying Dave's interpretations, and therefore you as parents can be looked upon with honour because of what your son does while in the service of the JC's". A similar spiel to the one mothers have to swallow in Palestine when they learn of their son's actions in Hamas. Honouring one's parents in this context has nothing to do with respecting or following parental direction.
Yes, no doubt. The Hamas families in Palestine do at least have some forewarning of their impending loss, but I imagine that must make it even harder for them when it comes, esp having to accept the "honour" with pride, and bury their sadness in silence.
The other side of this coin is the disbelief of the grieving families of those suicide bombers in the UK and US. They could not accept that their sons would have been capable of such an act. That's how we felt about Ash. It is all so totally out of character - their boys were gentle, kind, obedient and devout - ours was too : it's like an echo for me.Quote
apostate
I find it interesting because Dave has effectively set himself up as a defacto parent of all these young people, and reinforced in their minds that they would be hurting HIM to leave the group. He has, through emotional manipulation, created a co dependent situation because Ash would not want to hurt Dave because of the "magnitude of heartbreak" Dave assures him he experienced previously. Dave is using the very tactic he accuses you of doing. This is so typical of him. Every behaviour he himself engages in he projects onto others.
Yes, that is exactly what happened here, and yes, he does seem to have got this projection stunt down to an artform.Quote
apostate
"Relating" is something the JC's do to appear to be on the same wave length with non JC's. This they do as a way of disarming those they are targetting.
Well, I understand, but I really don't get it - dropping us now after 3 and a half years of being apparently on good terms, albeit at a huge distance for several extended periods. We had an unspoken agreement not to discuss religion or sex, and had a lot of agreement on politics, and just a lot of fun. It's not over the domain names, altho that was the reason initially cited. He staged a bust-up with a dear friend and loyal supporter of his too, round the time of confirming he had a potential recipient.
I can only think it is to do with the impending kidney donation. Perhaps they have decided that we would be likely to attempt some sort of physical interference with that process, so must be kept from all contact.Quote
apostate
I was a bit saddened to hear the news that Vicky had rejoined the JC's. She was not treated very well when she was in the group. Her and Ross almost got married, but Dave put an end to that by tunring up the heat on her. She broke under the strain of it all.
That is very sad. We only met her once, on Boxing Day 2 years ago, when Ash brought her and the little girls, with Ross and Martin over for a bbq. I had thought then that she and Ross would make a good couple. Shame he couldn't just give them his blessing like he did with Fran and Kim. Martin was Ash's "buddy" at that time.
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
matilda
()
Date: March 04, 2007 08:09PM
Here is an extract fro Jon Ronson's article Blood Sacrifice.
[www.factnet.org]
[i:144d307844]Casey is 23, and joined the group only in 2001. Like Susan, they decided to donate after Dave sent his email. I telephone Casey in early February, three weeks before his scheduled operation. "Have you told your mother?" I ask him.
"No," he says.
"Why not?" I ask.
"If she's opposed to the idea, she's going to be opposed to it whenever I tell her. So I'd rather get the operation out of the way first, and then tell her."
I email Dave. I say that I think Casey should tell his mother. Dave's response is this: "Although he's nearly 24 years old, and not a child, I can understand that it sounds cowardly, and maybe inconsiderate, not to tell her ahead of time. However, I'm the LEADER of this sinister little cult, and I am not telling relatives because they reacted so strongly when I first mentioned it. It's just a nuisance when people start raving and treating you like you've lost your mind. If it would make YOU feel better, I think he would probably agree to telling her. It's only three weeks now until he donates, so it'll have to be pretty soon. I personally would feel better if she DID know, so it won't be so much of a shock when she finds out afterwards, as long as she does not try to make problems with the hospital where the transplant is taking place. See, in our case, she would only need to phone and say he's part of a religious 'cult' - the magic C word - and the operation would probably be off."
A few days later, Casey decides to test the water with a chatty email to his mother. "It was full of mundane things," he tells me. "Small talk. How are her days going? And I just mentioned in the email that I'm thinking of donating a kidney. I haven't heard anything yet."
"How do you think she'll respond?" I ask.
"She may have the impression that I'm being coerced," he says.
"Does she feel that way about the Jesus Christians, anyway?" I ask.
"She does feel conflicted by our unity."
"That you're a live-in group?"
"That we hold ourselves accountable to each other. We make group decisions. It isn't the kind of personal freedom she feels I should have, I guess."
[/i:144d307844]
think the Kidneys for Jesus documentary shows she was not informed until afterwards although someone attemted to dial her number on the day of the operation after Casey had the anaesthetic. (Christine perhaps?)
[www.factnet.org]
[i:144d307844]Casey is 23, and joined the group only in 2001. Like Susan, they decided to donate after Dave sent his email. I telephone Casey in early February, three weeks before his scheduled operation. "Have you told your mother?" I ask him.
"No," he says.
"Why not?" I ask.
"If she's opposed to the idea, she's going to be opposed to it whenever I tell her. So I'd rather get the operation out of the way first, and then tell her."
I email Dave. I say that I think Casey should tell his mother. Dave's response is this: "Although he's nearly 24 years old, and not a child, I can understand that it sounds cowardly, and maybe inconsiderate, not to tell her ahead of time. However, I'm the LEADER of this sinister little cult, and I am not telling relatives because they reacted so strongly when I first mentioned it. It's just a nuisance when people start raving and treating you like you've lost your mind. If it would make YOU feel better, I think he would probably agree to telling her. It's only three weeks now until he donates, so it'll have to be pretty soon. I personally would feel better if she DID know, so it won't be so much of a shock when she finds out afterwards, as long as she does not try to make problems with the hospital where the transplant is taking place. See, in our case, she would only need to phone and say he's part of a religious 'cult' - the magic C word - and the operation would probably be off."
A few days later, Casey decides to test the water with a chatty email to his mother. "It was full of mundane things," he tells me. "Small talk. How are her days going? And I just mentioned in the email that I'm thinking of donating a kidney. I haven't heard anything yet."
"How do you think she'll respond?" I ask.
"She may have the impression that I'm being coerced," he says.
"Does she feel that way about the Jesus Christians, anyway?" I ask.
"She does feel conflicted by our unity."
"That you're a live-in group?"
"That we hold ourselves accountable to each other. We make group decisions. It isn't the kind of personal freedom she feels I should have, I guess."
[/i:144d307844]
think the Kidneys for Jesus documentary shows she was not informed until afterwards although someone attemted to dial her number on the day of the operation after Casey had the anaesthetic. (Christine perhaps?)
Kidney Cult now whipping each other and Blacks
Posted by:
matilda
()
Date: March 04, 2007 11:56PM
I should have added in my lat post that the phone was either engaged or was not answered on the documentary.
Interesting that Dave appears to conceed to Jon Ronson's request that Casey inform his mother. Dave was prepared to do that in order to retain good relationships with the journalist. The end he was seeking was some positive press clippings.
Interesting that Dave appears to conceed to Jon Ronson's request that Casey inform his mother. Dave was prepared to do that in order to retain good relationships with the journalist. The end he was seeking was some positive press clippings.
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