Dear Gladitzover,

I remember being duped by the arrogance of it all (We have the "truth", no-one else "lives by faith" as we do, and so we don't really need to verify anythings that Davids' doing or saying...because the ciriticism of him by others is only motivated by their "rebellion against God") when I was part of the Jesus Christians, so I harbour a little sympathy for Josh and the newer disciples.....and also I'm quite sure that as Fran stated earlier, that most of the Jesus Christians choose not to read this site.

They are actually in an even WORSE position now (and no doubt that's why David wanted to emulate the Berg model) because all they are hearing thesedays about David is what David is telling them about himself.....they can't actually "measure him up" immediately against scripture or even against his own word, or "debate" (as limited as it was) any "office" he seeks to claim for himself, as I at least had the opportunity to do so.....

I find it almost criminally nieve that the individual members could choose to forgo these rights......but of course I'm no longer hearing all the "positive news" about David's great works in Australia and about the "wonderful feedback" from their litnessing efforts, that they will still be hearing....

(Whats the address on their literature these days do you know.....if it all ccentralized to Sydney or does each group handle its' own mail (to the trusted senior "lieutenants").......?)

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Gladitzover

I also believe that this tendency is the reason that there are not more ex-members who speak out against him. Well, that and trauma. Hopefully the way is being paved for more people to join us on this forum. I know of a couple of people who are silent for now, but, may start to speak up one day.

Absolutely.
The man is a liar and a manipulative bully. It can take years for people to recover from abusive relationships- even a lifetime. Perhaps we can organise a private chat room or some type of support for those who wish to remain anonymous.
Again- my gratitude and admiration for all of those who have had the courage to speak out- and my heartfelt sympathy and empathy for all those whose lives have been affected by McKay.
Thanks sWord for putting up McKays private teachings- informative and deeply shocking.
If there is going to be a meeting about McKay and his unscrupulous ways- pls count me and several others in too.

Some "whistleblowing" is happening at the "Living donors online" website

[www.livingdonorsonline.org]

FYI Ashwyn has recently joined this forum and Dave makes his connection to
him seem not so close by simply referring to him as "friend" as opposed to "follower".

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apostate
Some "whistleblowing" is happening at the "Living donors online" website

[www.livingdonorsonline.org]

FYI Ashwyn has recently joined this forum and Dave makes his connection to
him seem not so close by simply referring to him as "friend" as opposed to "follower".

Thanks for this pointer, Apostate - I appreciate every and any chance of news of Ash. Not being hugely internet savvy, could I please bother you for some extra guidance towards Ash and Dave's more recent posts on that forum?

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cait

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apostate
Some "whistleblowing" is happening at the "Living donors online" website

[www.livingdonorsonline.org]

FYI Ashwyn has recently joined this forum and Dave makes his connection to
him seem not so close by simply referring to him as "friend" as opposed to "follower".

Thanks for this pointer, Apostate - I appreciate every and any chance of news of Ash. Not being hugely internet savvy, could I please bother you for some extra guidance towards Ash and Dave's more recent posts on that forum?

Here is the link Cait

[www.livingdonorsonline.org]

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matilda
Here is an extract fro Jon Ronson's article Blood Sacrifice.
[www.factnet.org]

I email Dave. I say that I think Casey should tell his mother. Dave's response is this: "Although he's nearly 24 years old, and not a child, I can understand that it sounds cowardly, and maybe inconsiderate, not to tell her ahead of time. However, I'm the LEADER of this sinister little cult, and I am not telling relatives because they reacted so strongly when I first mentioned it. It's just a nuisance when people start raving and treating you like you've lost your mind. If it would make YOU feel better, I think he would probably agree to telling her. It's only three weeks now until he donates, so it'll have to be pretty soon. I personally would feel better if she DID know, so it won't be so much of a shock when she finds out afterwards, as long as she does not try to make problems with the hospital where the transplant is taking place. See, in our case, she would only need to phone and say he's part of a religious 'cult' - the magic C word - and the operation would probably be off."

Hi Matilda, I've spent some time pondering on this article, and it has been very helpful, thanks. No wonder we were given no word of Ash's current schedule if Dave imagines we could interfere with that.

If Dave had bothered to consider our track record over the last 3 and a half years instead of trying to control us like some pawns in his chess game, he would have noticed we have never interferred with Ashwyn's right to make his own mistakes, and never posed any threat to him. We would have regretted it if we had, because in this time Ash has achieved a great deal that has made us really proud of him.

I am quite confused tho, by the conflicting goals Dave expressed to Jon elsewhere of wanting to be known as a radical cult leader at the same time as apparently seeking to reject and suppress use of the word here.

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A few days later, Casey decides to test the water with a chatty email to his mother. "It was full of mundane things," he tells me. "Small talk. How are her days going? And I just mentioned in the email that I'm thinking of donating a kidney. I haven't heard anything yet."

"How do you think she'll respond?" I ask.

"She may have the impression that I'm being coerced," he says.

"Does she feel that way about the Jesus Christians, anyway?" I ask.

"She does feel conflicted by our unity."

"That you're a live-in group?"

"That we hold ourselves accountable to each other. We make group decisions. It isn't the kind of personal freedom she feels I should have, I guess."

Casey puts this really well - I am very much in the same place as his mother on this issue of personal freedom.

Bump*

On the racist whipping:

It's hard to believe this violent and inhumane punishment was carried out. And all for stealing a few cheapo books!

I've heard of harsh punishments, but my goodness, that was sick. Talk about abusing your position of authority.

And I still can't find where in the bible it tells us to whip people as a form of punishment....

Bump*