Xenophone, are you and your wife named James and Ufuoma (I believe that is her name)? See, I told you I remember you!

The Reserved Articles sections state that "We are not trying to be secretive, but we are trying to get people to read the most important articles (those that are freely available) first." Well, my Bible is freely available, so shouldn't any and all Bible studies be so too? That kind of secrecy makes you look real, real suspicious. Come on, you know it's true.

I won't hide behind a pseudonym, Dave. You and I spoke by phone once when the US team was in L.A. You were typically unfriendly and evasive of my questions. My name is Brian J. Birmingham and I am from Dallas, Texas, which is where I met James of the JCs handing out Liberators by a DART station, as I was on my way to catch a bus. This was in late '01 or early '02. Then that Spring I decided to meet you all again and came to your crowded barrio flat for a Bible study. That is where I met Fran, Sue, Ufuoma (sp.?), and others, I cannot recall their names. My first impression was not a good one, and I got the creeps and left abruptly after less than an hour. The members of the group were all obviously malnourished (Sue in particular looked emaciated like an anorexic), smelly, and seemed pretty pissed off as a whole. The Bible study was entitled, "No More Mister Nice Guy." Fran led the study. This one is among the restricted-access articles now. Do you remember me now, Fran? I tried to take up correspondence with you all again when I was in Iraq but you called me a nut and told me me that since I hadn't forsaken all and joined when I had the chance that I obviously was not serious about following Jesus. Well, I am just as serious a disciple as you. I exhort you, brother: repent of this spirit of cynicism and judgementalism, and embrace the full fruits of the Spirit that Our Lord has for you! I saw none of these fruits when I met you, only bondage and anger. No, love, no joy. I'll be praying for you, brethren. Call me shallow, but why would I want to join a group of malnourished, skinny, smelly, angry people?

Actually, if I remember correctly, James had some kind of health problems and I think he coudn't donate...Xenophone said that he did. Hmmm....

Seems like something is missing from this. In particular, Xenophone sent in a witty description of the JC 'secret handshake'. Anyone know where the other postings went to? I think I had some things to say on those pages too. Is this common practice on this forum?

There is another Jonestown in the making out in Long Beach, CA. Please help spread the word about this. We could help prevent a huge tragedy a la Heaven's Gate. I am serious here I have contacted law enforcement in Long Beach, yes. Read for yourself:

JESUS CHRISTIANS NEWSLETTER #81, LATE AUGUST 2006

SPECIAL REPORT

We are planning to do something in the next monthor so which could turn out to be as controversial as anything we
have ever done before.
We felt that we should share it with our
supporters first, as it is
not easy to explain our reasons for doing this in
a few words.
As most readers know, Reinhard was brutally
attacked by Joe's family
and left lying unconscious in a pool of blood
several months ago. We
will not re-state the many serious injuries that
he received as a
result. Joe's mother, Sheila Simpson, held a
loaded gun, and Joe's
brother, Joshua, physically restrained Joe to keep
him coming to
Reinhard's aid, while Joe's father, Jared Johnson,
and his
stepbrother, John Onyejiako repeatedly kicked
Reinhard in the head and
body after he had lost consciousness.

We have been debating amongst ourselves (as we
have done before on
some lesser sins/crimes against ourselves) what
should be the proper
Christian response to such injustices. We feel
that Reinhard himself
nobly fulfilled the law of Christ, in turning the
other cheek for as
long as he was conscious. However, we feel that
the church in
particular and the Western world in general has
totally abused the
concept of grace, and that they have, in doing so,
despised the true
meaning of the cross of Christ.
> >
> > In order to bring a little appreciation back into
> what it really means
> > to forgive sins, and hopefully to make people
> think through these
> > issues more deeply, we plan, in the next month or
> so, to hold a
> > trial in Long Beach, California, where the
> attack took place. It is
> > almost certain that the family will be found
> guilty of a serious
> > assault, if not attempted murder.
> >
> > We will, if they are found guilty, pass sentence
> on them, and we
> > expect that the sentence will be a form of
> corporal punishment (e.g.
> > 25 lashes with a whip).
> >
> > We will not carry out this sentence on members of
> Joe's family unless
> > they sign papers saying that they agree to it, and
> that they are sorry
> > for committing such a crime. They will be given
> an opportunity to
> > defend their actions if they wish.
> >
> > However, we have discussed it amongst ourselves,
> and several of our
> > members, including Joe himself, have said that
> they are willing to
> > take the punishment for his family.
> >
> > The whippings will, most likely, be administered
> without delay, in
> > order not to prolong the process. When they have
> been completed, we
> > will consider the matter finished (apart from
> settlement of the huge
> > medical, dental, and optical bills that Reinhard
> has incurred as a
> > result of his injuries).
> >
> > We expect that people will argue that there is
> something wrong with a
> > teaching about forgiveness that also exacts a
> penalty. It flies in
> > the face of church teachings that Jesus has
> purchased a licence for
> > you to sin all you like without any
> accountability. However, we do
> > not see anything in the teachings of Jesus which
> says that we have
> > such freedom. Even his forgiveness is only given
> to those who show by
> > their lives true repentance.
> >
> > Jesus instructed his disciples to take up their
> crosses and to follow
> > him...
> > whatever that means. Even the death of Jesus
> himself baffles people
> > who cannot understand why the couldn't-care-less
> God of the churches
> > could not have just absolved everyone who says
> Lord, Lord
> > without letting his
> > innocent Son suffer.
> >
> > Our answer is that God was actually ratifying the
> need for punishment
> > in order to maintain law and order in society.
> The punishment Jesus
> > received was extreme, but it was because God
> wanted to make a very
> > serious point... a point which seems to have been
> lost on today's
> > world. A couple of minutes of pain (during the
> whippings that we have
> > planned) represent a small price to pay in
> contrast to the years of
> > wasted life that result from prolonged
> imprisonment.
> >
> > Even if we take the punishment ourselves (which
> seems most likely, as
> > no member of Joe's family has made any effort to
> accept responsibility
> > for their actions), all that we will be doing is
> accepting a token
> > punishment on their behalf--kind of a mini-cross,
> like the ones Jesus
> > instructed his followers to take up in imitation
> of him.
> >
> > We ourselves have been heavily challenged by this
> new concept of
> > justice and mercy. We have been debating the
> exact meaning of the
> > cross, the role of law in a supposedly Christian
> society, the issue of
> > pain and the morality of inflicting it on others
> or on ourselves, the
> > wasted lives through imprisonment, and even the
> future implications
> > for our plan in a world where people have become
> polarised between
> > those who scream for revenge and those who shirk
> from having anything
> > to do with punishment... least of all corporal
> punishment.
> >
> > We will try to keep the location of the trial and
> the administration
> > of the sentence secret, with attendance by
> invitation only, in order
> > to minimise unruly elements. We have a serious
> message to communicate
> > and hope to do so with minimal disruption.
> >
> > We invite people to visit our website <jesuschristians.com> and to
> > click on the button on the homepage marked THE CROSS (or
> go to
> >
>
[cust.idl.net.au])
> > to read
> > more of our thoughts on this subject. We welcome
> your thoughts as
> > well, and fully expect that it will take some time
> for most people to
> > see the good that can be accomplished through such
> a flogging.
> > But we trust that our
> > best friends will not be too quick to judge, and
> that they will listen
> > sympathetically to what we are saying.
> >


It is plain that they are planning on some vigilante activity, or at worst another mass suicide. Long Beach citizens, be on alert!

Brian, we are doing something controversial and we fully accept that the public in general will not agree with what we are doing, but when you go over the top in your warnings you actually HELP us, because people stop thinking of us as weird and start thinking that YOU may be the bigger loony.

Dave:

Isn't this more like a publicity stunt?

Like when you carefully attempted to micromanage the kidney donations with the media?

Why not take the lead and be whipped yourself?

That really smacks of Sadism to me. This is some scary business, holding your own court and flogging people sounds a mit illegal to me but I'm not an expert.

What did the police say when you called them?

The person being flogged could then press assault charges themselves surely. A bit more serious than the petty theft you are 'punishing' them for.

Sounds like taking advantage of the fact that such people would be reluctant to go to the police, to commit bodily harm against them.