> I am very happy that you took the time to reply to
> my posts thoroughly. This is very kind of you,
> thank you!
> I will try my best to do likewise, please let me
> know if you find this approach helpful.
I will be able to read whatever way you post.
It's really cute that you have now went away and got some help The posting flow is different from you. What we are looking here is to get their attention. We're really happy at this.
You might think you are only getting help from one or two people in SW. I can tell you what you are being told, and subsequently posting will be the accumulated effort of likely half a dozen. This is like Jesus exorcising a host of demons, lol!
> "You are also not interested in your own
> Thank you, Earthquake. May I ask you if you feel
> uncomfortable in our exchange because clarity is
> very important for you? Does it help if I reply to
> your questions more systemically?
You are very wrong if you think i feel uncomfortable in our exchange. I only really come back into the topic now when people like you post, because I love this.
Again, it doesn't matter what way you post to me.
> Let me try:
> "What do you mean by 'bhakti'?"
> Bhakti in the highest, as I understand it, is
> Advaita Bhakti, but to get there Dvaita Bhakti in
> form of worship to a deity is welcomed. Advaita
> Bhakti could be translated as absolute self love
> based on self-knowledge, without a second thought.
That only took you 24 hours. Even though you did by-pass the question, as well as others, in your reply yesterday.
> What do you mean by Bhakti, Earthquake?
It was you that mentioned bhakti, not me. Stay focused.
> "It is tradition and the way dakshina works is
> very important."
> Yes, James repeatedly said he learned it from his
> guru and he only allows that service to the
> teacher, in form of money, is done in the
> traditional way of donation.
> " Just because you have not had money took and
> been burned, does not mean others haven't."
> Well, to be fair, he has not only not taken any
> money from me, he GAVE me money! He paid for
> restaurants, transportation and accomdation to get
> to his seminars! He has done similar things with
> students from India. He suppported one kid from
> Tiruvannamalai, Mani, through his WHOLE school
> education, including university. Mani today's
> works at a software company in California and can
> support his whole family with his job.
Oh my god. I am rolling my eyes. Jeffrey Epstein donated millions of pounds to charity. Even setting up a foundation.
The point being, that your experience does not ever invalidate every other person's experience. You have to get real.
> "You will not even accept this, and that is
> because you are fully conditioned by the cult"
> I am not sure about it. I disagree on many topics
> with James and we had lengthy debates on politics,
> enviornment, buddhism, etc.
> Do members of a cult openly disagree with the Guru
> and mention the disagreements publicly?
Yes. Particularly if it is to convenient to use on the world foremost cult education website to try to show they are not a cult.
I am going to provide you with some common signs of a cult. This is from a world renowned expert on the subject matter, someone called Rick Ross.
I will also give my own response in regard to Shiningworld, in each.
1. A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power. That is a living leader, who has no meaningful accountability and becomes the single most defining element of the group and its source of power and authority.
EarthQuake: Shiningworld was initially set up with the idea of helping people. However, as time has went on there has become a cultist, star like atmosphere, one of an inner circle, in regard to James Swartz. This is noticed by many people who attend his course.
While it is not a problem in itself traditionally for JS to bed and marry a student, once he became clouded to those attributes he then began to violate the sacred terms of the Guru-Shishya relationship. The Guru-student relationship.
This was very noticeable in him allowing Isabella, a person with no spiritual authority, to have the authority to seriously, negatively impact the relationship between James and his very first teacher student. This was many yeas ago. The person in question was female.
He allows Isabella to poison almost all relationships he has with his teacher students. It is always a matter of time. I know this first hand. It cannot be invalidated.
In JS own words to being challenged by the student over how things were going wrong, JS exclaimed; 'I am a MAHATMA!!'
It was from here that he became noticeably clouded in Shiningworld.
He is very charismatic, and can wield this loving air about him. This permits him to treat students and way he wants, as they become blind that such a person can be nasty.
JS is the single defining element of the group. So much so that over many years, the inner circle has said among themselves that once he dies, SW will implode. Of course, with Isabella acting the way she does. He is more cunning, Isabella is much more open, in the destructive expressing.
2. A process [of indoctrination or education is in use that can be seen as] coercive persuasion or thought reform [commonly called "brainwashing"]
Earthquake: You are not only told what to think in SW, it has to be what JS and IS say is true. You are also expected to speak that ridiculous 'vedanta third party speak' often. It is so pretentious.
If you openly oppose them in regard to anything they have taught, your days are numbered.
3. Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.
The destructiveness of groups called cults varies by degree, from labour violations, child abuse, medical neglect to, in some extreme and isolated situations, calls for violence or mass suicide
Earthquake: As far as economic goes. There is growing evidence that JS and IS have been lobbying various people to help with their Spanish love nest, and then spurning those students. They will know what I am speaking off here. Cause many others now know.
We have also heard of sexual exploitation in this topic.
Some groups may not fit the definition of a cult, but may pose potential risks for participants. Here are 10 warning signs of a potentially unsafe group or leader.
• Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
Earthquake: JS has marketed SW as the soul western authority on Vedanta. You have alluded to this brainwashing also here. SW is not the main authority in the western world for Vedanta. The top three Indian schools of vedanta are each much more successful at teaching vedanta in the west than SW is.
• No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
Earthquake: Despite what way the satsangs are finally published as, many current and former students report to me that JS and IS do not like being challenged in regard to Vedanta. This is an abuse of the second stage of sadhana, mananam.
• No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget or expenses, such as an independently audited financial statement.
Earthquake: I've publicly posted here for many months about this point with SW. And I know they have read what I have requested. IT has to INDEPENDENTLY audited.
• Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
Earthquake: Shiningworld are a victim of their own negative atmosphere. Many of those closest to them report that the air is thick with fear. And this is to be expected. After many years, they can hardly hold on to 6 teachers at once. The Indian schools currently have hundreds. Including many westerners.
Shiningworld persecute almost every other expression of Vedanta. And in doing so, it is a commonly used tactic to elevate themselves as number one. They reap what they have sowed. And this is not going to stop.
• There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
Earthquake: There is a growing amount of actual evidence from them, in which they are invalidating student after student for their reasons to leave. The spiritual manipulation is evident. And I am hoping that a time is coming here when there is publication of a collecting of this evidence by their own making. Their own words.
• Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
Earthquake: I am telling you that just because former students have not confided in you, does not mean they have not confided in me. Students are reporting the same general themes of abuse.
I am not a liar. They are. And I am trying my best to create a tipping point situation where this material is allowed to come out. I've spoken with many others about this, including Traveller and Heather.
• There are records, books, news articles, or broadcast reports that document the abuses of the group/leader.
Earthquake: This topic and the books, provide this. There is also some tentative discussion around a website dedicated to dissemanting JS and IS, as well as a documentary. This is only in planning stages, though has been for many months. The concept is to bring many abused people together with one voice.
I trust that is acceptable to James Swartz nice juicy mango satsang post.
• Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
Earthquake: A psychologist witness the way both JS and IS where with me, first hand. The reason this was possible was because they were also a member of SW. They left along with me, and many others around the same time. Steadily there has been people distancing themselves since.
• The group/leader is always right.
Earthquake: This almost goes without saying. No-one can challenge the great self proclaimed mahatma in regard to vedanta.
• The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible
Earthquake: I cannot quantify this fully at this time. However, JS and IS have positioned themselves as the sole western authority. Only to people who dont know any better.
> "But I will tell you the way things are behind the
> Yes, I would seriously be interested. Do you agree
> it is the best to gather first all points that
> make James and shininworld Modern Vedanta?
You can interact with me whatever way you want, I will respond gladly.
> I will start from your last post.
> James and Shiningworld is Modern Vedanta because:
> 1) James uses charts
This is not what i said. You are not off to a good start.
> 2) James teaches self realisation and self
This is also not what I said.
> 3) James teaches Brahman plus Maya = Isvara
Yes, he does. I know where this is going, so go ahead.
> Is the list of Modern Vedanta indicators in James
> complete or would add further points?
Your own little list you have just made is wrong. So how will you even hope to invalidate anything else. Go get your own house in order first ;) .
Dear Heather and Traveller,
I have not said Hello to you two yet, and I apologize for that. I am very happy to have met you in form of the posts in this forum. I genuingly like you. And I can see clearly that you two (inlcuding Earthquake) have been hurt by James. I am very sorry for this and I hope you can forgive him at some point in your life.
I'm rolling my eyes and laughing. Amateur hour is here.
For you to be truthful in us being hurt by James and hoping we can forgive him would mean that you believe he has done something to hurt us. You have already tried to invalidate a victim of a child rape.
Can you not be truthful, honest and open? That is dharmic.
My own answer to your question is that you seem to think I am personally involved. Isvara has decided that Shiningworld is being took to task. And this is growing in ability. There is nothing that exists that is not what God wants, as there is nothing that is not Isvara. So this is totally cool, and a sheer joy.
I have a question for you Heather, Traveller and Earthquake:
Would you like to see as many students of James to wake up from any possible cultist developments within Shiningworld? Or would you go further and actually like to see Shiningworld with all its publications and thousands of openly available Questions and Answers, plus James Swartz and all his planned seminars and videos to be removed? and in Earthquake's case his wife removed too?
I am looking forward to your replies,
If you have attended so many excellent teachings you need to go back and do some more. Start with Karma Yoga. And move to resolving the separation through the aikyum teachings.
It matters not, what way this goes. There only is Isvara. Who cares either way? Isvara has created this situation out of itself. So this is Isvara's business. And I cannot know what should and should not be. I am only an instrument. Which is not a big deal at all. But it makes this all very enjoyable.
The responsibility is with JS and IS. SW is being negatively impacted by this, and as this movement is organised more, it will be more so. It's a matter of going with the flow really. The fact the JS mentions in that satsang about Trav that traffic is increasing, sales increasing, doesnt mean that students are not listening.
They are. Becuase they are talking to me. And I don't tell lies. Particularly when I allude to it publicly, and also say the time is coning when I want everything to be presented professionally.
If Isvara wants that sooner, then the situation will present itself. This topic has went a bit quiet until JS made that posts and you two started posting here. It's what we want here. We want the attention. And the interaction with you all. The world is watching this. As Isabella said, a tiny corner of the interent noone see's. Sure, approaching 18,000 views now.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2019 08:33PM by earthquake.