It's true, at the point mooji's speaking to you few others personally about current events, your mind is so gone at that point, that he's just reeling you in and directing your train of thought in whatever direction he'd like.

But that's the point right?
"surrender your mind to the guru"
"just love him"

If you disagree with him in moments like these, you'll get rebuked, I know this from firsthand experience. I believe he conducts discussions like this to instill fear in his devotees. You begin to believe the world outside of sahaja is not to be trusted.

What happened to '-the universe provides-' in these moments?

Does that not apply anymore?

He uses all of these different tactics but no one can question them because they have to have complete 'surrender to the guru'

At that point you become extremely confused.
Your only salvation is mooji, but you can also trust the universe and the world is your guru.
But the world is also a fearful place full of hate and violence, a place where you need the protection of a guru to keep you safe.

Mixed messages here.

Hi Heythere101,

when you say "At that point you become extremely confused" - I think that is something to be very cautious about and very wary of - confusion.

When I started listening to Moo, after a few weeks I stated to feel confused, too. Normally I am very logical and rational, so I didn't know why some seemingly harmless spiritual teachings would be making me confused.

I actually don't think a spiritual awakening should make you feel confused - although some people disagree with this. I think a real awakening experience would be clear and bright. 'Subtle' perhaps, even fleeting, but clear. I do think it would make you ask questions about your own life - that would be a natural result of some sort of awakening.

But questioning and searching and wondering are not the same as confusion. These are pleasant and curious feelings about wanting to know more and wanting self-understanding. But confusion is debilitating.

I would be very, very concerned about any teaching that makes you feel confused.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2020 09:07AM by Sahara71.

Sahara71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Heythere101,
> I would be very, very concerned about any teaching
> that makes you feel confused.

Is concerning especially when you have conflicting thoughts in opposite directions. Subtle suggestions to give up or drop everything in Invitation to Freedom and in other teachings compromises with self-preservation. Some devotees seem to go with a drop-everything suggestion to give up their body (life), others more fortunate like me have the notion of giving up aspirations. Still countless like my sangha leader parted with her money....all in the name of service to the guru in exchange for liberation.

Of course when he is confronted, he will not take responsibility. Like in Tiru and captured on video recently, he will say that MS is the most powerful place with beautiful beings there benefiting from his teachings. Then he will call you a troublemaker and insist that his teachings contained no such thing and that you already had a problem with yourself when you first followed his teachings. He will further claim that his teachings had improved your life tremendously and shift the blame back to you for losing it because you did not honor it....how loving and compassionate is that? This is first class advaita vedanta twist-and-tweak from Brixton. Go back there to sell chai and incense for goodness sake.

He likes say things that would price him. He has to say complements to himself, to feel better lol
Perhaps he is writing to himself letters, to worship himself.

Anyway, for me, this is easy to not treat him seriously anymore. I just do not believe with anything what he ever said. I learned to ignore him. He disappeared and means nothing to me.
Although I can see, he is projecting. In truth he is troublemaker. But I understand he needs to protect his self image. Perhaps is not ready to see how much damage and hurt cause to people.

Hi guys, sahaja just uploaded new video, "Freedom at the Eleventh Hour".
The second person speaking in satsang, Tapani, first came to sahaja after I was there for a couple of months, 4 something years ago. He never spoke really.
He's still there, in satsang with mooji.
Wow, it is bizarre to see this, he is asking him what is the difference between psychological mind and the practical mind. mooji says "throw them all in the same basket"
Where is he leading this young man?
He was so much younger when he arrived, when will he realize he should leave?
When will he realize this whole thing is a farce?
It's so bizarre.
For him, he is still getting something from mooji, an experience of love & security.
Mooji is willing to play this role for everyone, this whole time? Why?

he say things like this, to manipulate with people's subconscious minds. Most of the people will subconsciously look at the clock, at 11, and they will think Moo has some power. He is not, he is getting people to take their attention to little things.
He is programming people.

He doesn't really changed.
I remember when he said "you are like a turtle, you will never get to the sea, you will die, and after this, he was sending kisses to women at his sangha, with his hand"- what was that mean, I have no idea, and I do not want to understand what is going on in his head.
Later on, he also said - "people prefer fishes than freedom"and he laughted- what doesn't mean I have no idea(I was thinking that maybe he was thinking about vagina).
Also he told me to shut up, with anger once. So I was thinking, maybe he wants everyone force to not talk, and be like those fishes. But I really do not understand this guy.

I just think, he is having his own world, and lack of wisdom.


But I remember I felt possessed by him once. I had head full of his weird talking, and I literally went insane, I thought he is really charlatan. And I was so angry, because I had illusion, I'm his property and he can do with me whatever he wants. I wanted kill him so much. I imagined jumping on his head, and then I was laughing.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2020 05:17PM by Gaja.

Hmm about fish and fishing. Lots of cultural associations here.

We speak of "fishing for praise" and "fishing for compliments."

Fish are eaten. Fish get caught. Fish are hunted. Fish are sold.

In the old days, fisherfolk put their captured fish in a *basket* known as a creel. In the old days, fish were carried in baskets and sold in the market, carried home from the market in baskets.

Fisherfolk try to get fish to come to them or pursue fish, especially fish that travel in multitudes.

Fisher folk, are known as anglers. They use tricks and techniques unknown to the fish.

To be a fish is to be a hunted creature.

Fish are **fooled** by bright lures, bait, by "flies" that mimic insects fish feed on.

Most food fish travel in crowds. Some food fish are said to travel in "schools" which gives a pun for schools, schooling, training - indoctrination?

Fish are *hooked*, captured in nets. Captured fish are reeled in. Some fish are more important than others.

Some fish prey on other fish.

"Big Fish" eat little fish.
"small fry" -- unimportant.

"Reel you in (pull you in as though you are a hooked fish) -- capturing attention, loyalty, fooling someone, controlling someone.

[www.google.com]

"I will make you fishers of men" -- Jesus addressing Peter and James

Loaves and fishes -- Jesus feeding the multitude.


Red Herring - using a strong smelling fish to throw pursuers off your scent trail. Use of distraction tactics.

Fish and fishing do occur in a rare teaching story that has to do with genuine emancipatory education vs education that keeps people hungry and looking to another to feed them:

"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
"Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime".


"Fish are like house guests. They both stink after three days."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2020 01:00AM by corboy.

Years back a message board participant named The Anticult taught us how to
examine use of "weird stories".

[forum.culteducation.com]

Hypnotic eyes, false intimacy

[forum.culteducation.com]

The Anticult also identified use of Scarcity Marketing as a recruitment
technique.

Today many gurus are in isolation due to covid virus with no access to long time or new disciples. THey can easily use this technique.

Here is Anticult's analysis:

[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2020 01:10AM by corboy.

The fish reference also stuck out to me.
Mainly because I have heard this many times before in Papaji satsang recordings or books.
Papaji would very often use this analogy of going to the pleasures and desires of the ego as 'going to the fishmarket', and would also frequently joke openly in satsang in front of devotees about how someone was still enjoying the smell of fish, or ask someone if they liked fish as a joke.

This humor was used by Papaji to display how we are still drawn to the fishmarket of the ego, although we are able to experience our Self at all moments.

This is just mooji's version of that, people do not understand, it's just a replica of things he's already heard.
He probably heard Papaji say and joke about it and so he does the same thing.
Most of the things mooji says and does are mere replications of satsangs by different teachers.
Mostly of Papaji. This makes his devotees further believe he is Papji's predecessor, (instead of realizing he's just replicating something he has seen)

And literally, he killed some bird, to protect his fish.
He is so silly.

Do you think he might start drink something alcoholic?

His life is so odd. Remember when Kathy Byron said, she doesn't care if people dies, because anyway, most of them is miserable, and life they are having is not worth of living.
But you know what, when I see life of gurus, and some enlightened people, I am not sure if such a life is worth of living also.
I mean it is wonderful when whole nature opens up it's beauty, when mental noise stop, but for example, the life that Moo is having, the games he plays with ego - minds, I feel sorry for him. I am glad my life is not a game, and is so simple now. I do love simplicity.