Byron Katie (the Work) Siddha Yoga SYDA, Marta Szabo, Daniel Shaw
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: July 01, 2008 01:41PM
Came across an interesting statement made by Daniel Shaw, which one assumes is the same Dan Shaw who has been speaking about SYDA for years, and is quoted above.
There are clearly some strong parallels with the Byron Katie system.
What jumped out as similar was about people who DEFEND and PROTECT Byron Katie by LYING. This has already been shown time and time again, lying by omission and commission, twisting promotional material, denying what is really going on, etc.
As well as financial questions, "charities" and "gifts", and deep covert psychological manipulation, interfering in families and marriages..etc.
Of course, each group is different.
But people better WAKE-UP.
There is so much LYING that goes on around the Byron Katie group, lying, and also just twisting and warping the facts and words.
You ask them a straight question, you get non-responsive answers, which always end with.."go to the LGAT seminar and see for yourself".
That is the technique from est and Landmark to not reveal the content or process of the seminar, and to get you into the tent. A total bullshit response.
No one knows where the MILLIONS of dollars are going, no one. Its all private and secret capital, even the so-called "charity" non-profit, all the real details are hidden.
On the Guruphiliac blog comments there are a few posts clearly from people in the "inside" who are raising serious questions about Byron Katie.
So people better wake-up, or 5 years from now there might be websites like...
www.LeavingByronKatie.com
www.StopByronKatie.com
Its probably not going to get as overtly bad as SYDA, but in a way because its so deceptive it might be worse in the long-run. What's worse, acute bleeding, or a slow-bleed?
People who understand LGAT's, who are not pointing out the problems with the Byron Katie LGAT system, should think again, and start raising some questions in public.
______________________________
[www.freedomofmind.com]
"SYDA is a soft core cult with a good deal of money and power. Gurumayi controls the lives and pocket books of thousands of people, who defend and protect her by lying about and hiding the corrupt history of SYDA. (see link)
There are clearly some strong parallels with the Byron Katie system.
What jumped out as similar was about people who DEFEND and PROTECT Byron Katie by LYING. This has already been shown time and time again, lying by omission and commission, twisting promotional material, denying what is really going on, etc.
As well as financial questions, "charities" and "gifts", and deep covert psychological manipulation, interfering in families and marriages..etc.
Of course, each group is different.
But people better WAKE-UP.
There is so much LYING that goes on around the Byron Katie group, lying, and also just twisting and warping the facts and words.
You ask them a straight question, you get non-responsive answers, which always end with.."go to the LGAT seminar and see for yourself".
That is the technique from est and Landmark to not reveal the content or process of the seminar, and to get you into the tent. A total bullshit response.
No one knows where the MILLIONS of dollars are going, no one. Its all private and secret capital, even the so-called "charity" non-profit, all the real details are hidden.
On the Guruphiliac blog comments there are a few posts clearly from people in the "inside" who are raising serious questions about Byron Katie.
So people better wake-up, or 5 years from now there might be websites like...
www.LeavingByronKatie.com
www.StopByronKatie.com
Its probably not going to get as overtly bad as SYDA, but in a way because its so deceptive it might be worse in the long-run. What's worse, acute bleeding, or a slow-bleed?
People who understand LGAT's, who are not pointing out the problems with the Byron Katie LGAT system, should think again, and start raising some questions in public.
______________________________
[www.freedomofmind.com]
"SYDA is a soft core cult with a good deal of money and power. Gurumayi controls the lives and pocket books of thousands of people, who defend and protect her by lying about and hiding the corrupt history of SYDA. (see link)
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) analysis and strong emotions
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: July 01, 2008 02:02PM
also, lets always remember, dealing with any type of culty issue can be very emotional and stressful for everyone involved.
And its very easy to misinterpret plain-text email, as there is no voice-tonality. (they teach you how to manipulate voice-tonality in NLP, and Byron Katie uses that technique very carefully).
So from time to time some of the threads are going to get emotional and highly-charged. Hey, if people weren't getting upset, then probably not much is being said of importance.
Its interesting that Landmark type trolls went berserk when the "LGAT room organization" information was coming out. Why? That hits them between the eyes, people can SEE that, and it can throw their entire process off balance. They can't DENY that. Its a fact.
Same with Byron Katie. Many things she is doing cannot be DENIED. They clearly are facts.
They want to keep them hidden from new recruits.
It also seems they have thought up a technique to deal with internet criticism of Byron Katie, by saying its just people's own projections and issues.
But its not. Just another lie. One lie in a long list of lies.
It might be time to start a "List of Lies" in regards to Byron Katie. One could list all the lies of commission, and omission, the list would be very long...
People like Byron Katie, and Werner Erhard are terrified of the truth, this is why they hide behind a fog of distortion. But when you build a mansion build on a foundation of smoke and mirrors...one day...
In due time as the FACTS continue to come out, people will start to be able to see things that before were invisible to them.
Its fascinating how these new Anti-Guru Gurus FEAR REALITY.
They are literally terrified of REALITY.
This is why they and their senior people just tell lie upon lie, upon lie. One lie leads to the next lie.
__________________________
Speaking of deception...here is one place where they are referring people to the SYDA Guru Gurumayi. Hey, I must be psychic to have thought they would use an internet blog to troll for $erious $eekers...its a culture of lies.
Meet Elizabeth Gilbert's Guru
[eat-pray-love-fans.blogspot.com]
________________________
[www.blogshopreview.com]
Eat, Pray, Love: One Woman’s Search for Everything Across Italy, India and Indonesia
QUOTE EXCERPT:
Customer Reviews
What the author DOESN’T TELL YOU about the Ashram
My deep concern is for the impressionable young spiritual seekers who might read this work. Forewarned is forearmed; after that, it’s up to them.
I heard much praise about this book and was eager to read it. To my shock,
it was crystal-clear (E.G. tossed us a boatload of clues which she would be foolish to deny) that the memoir was a public relations spiel for a specific yogic path, Siddha Yoga. I had left it long ago due to the scandals of each succeeding guru. I had been deeply involved –One year I had lived at that ashram in India, culminating in my certification as a teacher, and afterwards was a member of various local centers in America. It was an incredible expense of money and energy and time.
Ms. Gilbert says she doesn’t want to name the woman-guru (Chidvilasanda, now Gurumai)– but it seems to me it’s because the author doesn’t want to tell the entire truth (wasn’t that a quote, the value of telling the whole truth, that she placed in the front of the book?.
Swamiji was actually Baba Muktananda, or “Baba” for short who died in 1982. The Ashram was Ganeshpuri, three hours from Bombay. Did any critical reviews uncover and mention this, I wonder? Baba appointed two siblings as co-successors. They fought over the throne, spread accusations about each other, taking it to the courts, and the sister, now known as Gurumai, won out then. From that day forward initiating an “Omerta” rule of silence, she forbid photos or any mention of her brother allowed. She is the “Guru” to whom Ms. Martin gave allegiance, mentions lovingly from the start of the book. Okay, so every family squabbles, even gurus — yet it was much more.
Who is the author trying to impress, reach by her version? A New York (if memory serves, it was the New Yorker) magazine, as well as Yoga Journal, and other media sources through the years reported the scandals: the Swiss bank, the assertions by ex-yogis that they were threatened with or indeed physically harmed, the sexual abuse of young teen girl devotees, the ongoing secret police of the current woman-Guru. On Yahoo there is even a support group of ex-Siddha devotees who share their stories of agony, abuse. On that website, there are questions by current devotees who are having trouble leaving the organization due to the mental gymnastics that “leaving the Guru” creates (which only an ex-yogi can understand, one to the other).
So how did all this get scrubbed away in a travelogue-type memoir?
The SYDA (Siddha)officialdom of course would always deny all hint of wrongdoing –but too many people have come forward, and my own observations, painful experiences, and common sense confirmed to me that this was an unsavory path not to be trusted. Part of the challenge for ex-SYDA yogis was that the Siddha organization had, may still have, a well-organized p.r. department counteracting any alleged criticism.
In this day and age for such an “innocent” tale to be told by Ms. Martin, to such acclaim, without even alluding to the controversies, seems misguided at best, and insidious, at worst. I’ve heard the rebuttals already — the organization has changed; things are different; Gurumayi was unjustly maligned. From what people with links to the organization tell me, I don’t think anything has improved.
Yet I do allow the author her opinion — Where the latter gets into trouble is this:
Writing this book, the focus of honesty is called into question. The author, to preserve her own integrity, should have at least acknowledged this background, presented her opinion as to why she does not accept such claims of Guru-sponsored brutalities, and allowed readers the important right of determining their own conclusions.
Instead, we were given a classic fairy tale, on the surface, touching, amusing, noble, delightfully human, uplifting — How many seeds of longing did Ms. Martin plant in the minds of young idealist seekers, eager to replicate her experience by trekking to that exact Guru and locale?
This was a memoir not complete in the telling. And that is very, very sad.
By C.Giacobbe
____________________________________________________
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2008 02:27PM by The Anticult.
And its very easy to misinterpret plain-text email, as there is no voice-tonality. (they teach you how to manipulate voice-tonality in NLP, and Byron Katie uses that technique very carefully).
So from time to time some of the threads are going to get emotional and highly-charged. Hey, if people weren't getting upset, then probably not much is being said of importance.
Its interesting that Landmark type trolls went berserk when the "LGAT room organization" information was coming out. Why? That hits them between the eyes, people can SEE that, and it can throw their entire process off balance. They can't DENY that. Its a fact.
Same with Byron Katie. Many things she is doing cannot be DENIED. They clearly are facts.
They want to keep them hidden from new recruits.
It also seems they have thought up a technique to deal with internet criticism of Byron Katie, by saying its just people's own projections and issues.
But its not. Just another lie. One lie in a long list of lies.
It might be time to start a "List of Lies" in regards to Byron Katie. One could list all the lies of commission, and omission, the list would be very long...
People like Byron Katie, and Werner Erhard are terrified of the truth, this is why they hide behind a fog of distortion. But when you build a mansion build on a foundation of smoke and mirrors...one day...
In due time as the FACTS continue to come out, people will start to be able to see things that before were invisible to them.
Its fascinating how these new Anti-Guru Gurus FEAR REALITY.
They are literally terrified of REALITY.
This is why they and their senior people just tell lie upon lie, upon lie. One lie leads to the next lie.
__________________________
Speaking of deception...here is one place where they are referring people to the SYDA Guru Gurumayi. Hey, I must be psychic to have thought they would use an internet blog to troll for $erious $eekers...its a culture of lies.
Meet Elizabeth Gilbert's Guru
[eat-pray-love-fans.blogspot.com]
________________________
[www.blogshopreview.com]
Eat, Pray, Love: One Woman’s Search for Everything Across Italy, India and Indonesia
QUOTE EXCERPT:
Customer Reviews
What the author DOESN’T TELL YOU about the Ashram
My deep concern is for the impressionable young spiritual seekers who might read this work. Forewarned is forearmed; after that, it’s up to them.
I heard much praise about this book and was eager to read it. To my shock,
it was crystal-clear (E.G. tossed us a boatload of clues which she would be foolish to deny) that the memoir was a public relations spiel for a specific yogic path, Siddha Yoga. I had left it long ago due to the scandals of each succeeding guru. I had been deeply involved –One year I had lived at that ashram in India, culminating in my certification as a teacher, and afterwards was a member of various local centers in America. It was an incredible expense of money and energy and time.
Ms. Gilbert says she doesn’t want to name the woman-guru (Chidvilasanda, now Gurumai)– but it seems to me it’s because the author doesn’t want to tell the entire truth (wasn’t that a quote, the value of telling the whole truth, that she placed in the front of the book?.
Swamiji was actually Baba Muktananda, or “Baba” for short who died in 1982. The Ashram was Ganeshpuri, three hours from Bombay. Did any critical reviews uncover and mention this, I wonder? Baba appointed two siblings as co-successors. They fought over the throne, spread accusations about each other, taking it to the courts, and the sister, now known as Gurumai, won out then. From that day forward initiating an “Omerta” rule of silence, she forbid photos or any mention of her brother allowed. She is the “Guru” to whom Ms. Martin gave allegiance, mentions lovingly from the start of the book. Okay, so every family squabbles, even gurus — yet it was much more.
Who is the author trying to impress, reach by her version? A New York (if memory serves, it was the New Yorker) magazine, as well as Yoga Journal, and other media sources through the years reported the scandals: the Swiss bank, the assertions by ex-yogis that they were threatened with or indeed physically harmed, the sexual abuse of young teen girl devotees, the ongoing secret police of the current woman-Guru. On Yahoo there is even a support group of ex-Siddha devotees who share their stories of agony, abuse. On that website, there are questions by current devotees who are having trouble leaving the organization due to the mental gymnastics that “leaving the Guru” creates (which only an ex-yogi can understand, one to the other).
So how did all this get scrubbed away in a travelogue-type memoir?
The SYDA (Siddha)officialdom of course would always deny all hint of wrongdoing –but too many people have come forward, and my own observations, painful experiences, and common sense confirmed to me that this was an unsavory path not to be trusted. Part of the challenge for ex-SYDA yogis was that the Siddha organization had, may still have, a well-organized p.r. department counteracting any alleged criticism.
In this day and age for such an “innocent” tale to be told by Ms. Martin, to such acclaim, without even alluding to the controversies, seems misguided at best, and insidious, at worst. I’ve heard the rebuttals already — the organization has changed; things are different; Gurumayi was unjustly maligned. From what people with links to the organization tell me, I don’t think anything has improved.
Yet I do allow the author her opinion — Where the latter gets into trouble is this:
Writing this book, the focus of honesty is called into question. The author, to preserve her own integrity, should have at least acknowledged this background, presented her opinion as to why she does not accept such claims of Guru-sponsored brutalities, and allowed readers the important right of determining their own conclusions.
Instead, we were given a classic fairy tale, on the surface, touching, amusing, noble, delightfully human, uplifting — How many seeds of longing did Ms. Martin plant in the minds of young idealist seekers, eager to replicate her experience by trekking to that exact Guru and locale?
This was a memoir not complete in the telling. And that is very, very sad.
By C.Giacobbe
____________________________________________________
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2008 02:27PM by The Anticult.
Eat, Pray, Love, Siddha Yoga SYDA culture of lies...using Blogs
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: July 01, 2008 02:40PM
ok, just to make sure this doesn't get lost...below is a blog about Eat Play Love, and it has a good amount of SYDA cultic propaganda fused right into it here and there, in a very conversational way. There are probably many more of them out there like this, nice and understated, which is the new approach. Underselling.
But they point right to a book by the Guru.
Sadhana of the Heart: A Collection of Talks on Spiritual Life (Paperback) by Gurumayi Chidvilasananda
[www.amazon.com]
They even implant a SUGGESTION at the end..
"This book has enough "messages" for a lifetime."
Get it? LIFETIME.
There are many similarities between Byron Katie and SYDA Siddha Yoga. One wonders if there is anything more explicit in the Losing The Moon book, which has a more eastern Guru angle to it?
Maybe a specific name will turn up linking Byron Katie to Gurumayi.
If there is, do ya think its being concealed...???? NO!!!
_________________________________________
[eat-pray-love-fans.blogspot.com]
December 2, 2007
Meet Elizabeth Gilbert's Guru
Her name is Gurumayi Chidvilasananda and she is the head of the Siddha Yoga Meditation Lineage.
She hasn't has a public satsang (gathering) since January 1, 2004. Every year, on New Year's day, she would broadcast her annual message via audio and video around the world to her devotees. The last one was on January 1, 2004.
She is NOT in hiding; she is accessible at her ashrams, it's just that she's not traveling and teaching publicly. It is believed that this is due in part to the fact that she feels that she has given all the teachings and talks that are necessary. This decision was made two years before "Eat Pray Love" was released and year or more after Liz visited her Ashram in India.
If you are interested in Gurumayi, a great place to start is her book Sadhana of the Heart: A Collection of Talks on Spiritual Life which is a compilation of these New Year's messages. This book has enough "messages" for a lifetime.
But they point right to a book by the Guru.
Sadhana of the Heart: A Collection of Talks on Spiritual Life (Paperback) by Gurumayi Chidvilasananda
[www.amazon.com]
They even implant a SUGGESTION at the end..
"This book has enough "messages" for a lifetime."
Get it? LIFETIME.
There are many similarities between Byron Katie and SYDA Siddha Yoga. One wonders if there is anything more explicit in the Losing The Moon book, which has a more eastern Guru angle to it?
Maybe a specific name will turn up linking Byron Katie to Gurumayi.
If there is, do ya think its being concealed...???? NO!!!
_________________________________________
[eat-pray-love-fans.blogspot.com]
December 2, 2007
Meet Elizabeth Gilbert's Guru
Her name is Gurumayi Chidvilasananda and she is the head of the Siddha Yoga Meditation Lineage.
She hasn't has a public satsang (gathering) since January 1, 2004. Every year, on New Year's day, she would broadcast her annual message via audio and video around the world to her devotees. The last one was on January 1, 2004.
She is NOT in hiding; she is accessible at her ashrams, it's just that she's not traveling and teaching publicly. It is believed that this is due in part to the fact that she feels that she has given all the teachings and talks that are necessary. This decision was made two years before "Eat Pray Love" was released and year or more after Liz visited her Ashram in India.
If you are interested in Gurumayi, a great place to start is her book Sadhana of the Heart: A Collection of Talks on Spiritual Life which is a compilation of these New Year's messages. This book has enough "messages" for a lifetime.
Byron Katie QUOTES: "God is the Nazi too" (p55) "I AM GOD" (p.91)
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: July 01, 2008 04:29PM
Did a quick scan of the Byron Katie book "Losing The Moon".
There is a lot more in there about the Nazi's.
QUOTES from "Losing The Moon":
"God is the Nazi too". (P. 55)
"I AM GOD" (p 91)
They open the book with this quote:
"EVERYTHING WE SAY HERE IS A LIE. BUT ONLY EVERYTHING".
I finally understand the senior Byron Katie promoters. You see, they have swallowed the entire fish. This is why they can write things that self-conflict, and make no sense, and are full of what a normal person would call "lies". To them, everything is a lie, so that means there is no such thing as a lie, as there is no reality anyway, its all an illusion. (except your payment, that's real).
So now its easy to understand how Carol Skolnick and Steven Sashen and others can write and say what they do. They have been deeply indocrinated by Byron Katie to the deepest level, and no longer even believe there is such a thing as a "lie". (of course they don't tell the truth about that either!)
This is core to Byron Katie, and she opens that suppressed book with that phrase. Now we can really see why they burned their own book.
"EVERYTHING WE SAY HERE IS A LIE. BUT ONLY EVERYTHING".
_____________________
The editor of the book "Losing The Moon" was Ellen J. Mack. (who appears to have vanished or changed her name).
In the intro she does talk about various Eastern style Gurus.
Gangaji (same age as Byron Katie)
Papaji
Robert Adams
Isaac Shapiro
and Byron Katie in the book is very familiar with these Gurus.
Ramana Maharshi
Annamalai Swami
In the text of the book, Byron Katie uses these Eastern terms all the time in great detail, which shows she studied it somewhere.
Advaita
Vasanas
Bhakti
According to a simple search, all of those Guru's appear to somewhat flow from Ramana Maharshi.
Is that correct?
Byron Katie obviously studied under an eastern style Guru at some point, maybe one of these ones. Maybe one of those Guru's has said something along the lines of..."that b___ Byron Katie stole my stuff and pretends she made it up herself" or something spiritual like that...
The truth is out there...sorry BK, everything is not a lie. But now anyone can see how your senior people can fabricate anything without one shred of remorse.
That seems to be the same ideology at work in Siddha Yoga.
Interesting how Byron Katie used the term..."The Work Foundation".
Similar to "The SYDA Foundation".
Regardless, they both obviously believe that lying does not exist, so lying is not lying. As a matter of fact, they would believe that trying to tell the truth and be accurate in what you say, is a far bigger lie than just making stuff up out of your imagination, which to them is more real than any "objective fact". (other than getting paid actual money).
This is why they can lie with impunity.
So Byron Katie is really is a cult of lies.
That might sound harsh, but it appears to be quite accurate, for those deeply involved. They get a spiritual rush from lying, as to them that is a "higher reality".
One would be wise not get involved with a person who has been in the Byron Katie group for more than a year or two, and has been deeply indocrinated into this system. You literally cannot believe a word they say, in the normal sense a normal human interacts with other people.
That explains a lot. Actually, it seems to explain everything about Byron Katie and The Work, and her people. Good thing they burned their own book "Losing The Moon", it had more than a little too much information in it. A little too honest about the lying. You see, you have to lie about the lying too to make it work.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2008 04:47PM by The Anticult.
There is a lot more in there about the Nazi's.
QUOTES from "Losing The Moon":
"God is the Nazi too". (P. 55)
"I AM GOD" (p 91)
They open the book with this quote:
"EVERYTHING WE SAY HERE IS A LIE. BUT ONLY EVERYTHING".
I finally understand the senior Byron Katie promoters. You see, they have swallowed the entire fish. This is why they can write things that self-conflict, and make no sense, and are full of what a normal person would call "lies". To them, everything is a lie, so that means there is no such thing as a lie, as there is no reality anyway, its all an illusion. (except your payment, that's real).
So now its easy to understand how Carol Skolnick and Steven Sashen and others can write and say what they do. They have been deeply indocrinated by Byron Katie to the deepest level, and no longer even believe there is such a thing as a "lie". (of course they don't tell the truth about that either!)
This is core to Byron Katie, and she opens that suppressed book with that phrase. Now we can really see why they burned their own book.
"EVERYTHING WE SAY HERE IS A LIE. BUT ONLY EVERYTHING".
_____________________
The editor of the book "Losing The Moon" was Ellen J. Mack. (who appears to have vanished or changed her name).
In the intro she does talk about various Eastern style Gurus.
Gangaji (same age as Byron Katie)
Papaji
Robert Adams
Isaac Shapiro
and Byron Katie in the book is very familiar with these Gurus.
Ramana Maharshi
Annamalai Swami
In the text of the book, Byron Katie uses these Eastern terms all the time in great detail, which shows she studied it somewhere.
Advaita
Vasanas
Bhakti
According to a simple search, all of those Guru's appear to somewhat flow from Ramana Maharshi.
Is that correct?
Byron Katie obviously studied under an eastern style Guru at some point, maybe one of these ones. Maybe one of those Guru's has said something along the lines of..."that b___ Byron Katie stole my stuff and pretends she made it up herself" or something spiritual like that...
The truth is out there...sorry BK, everything is not a lie. But now anyone can see how your senior people can fabricate anything without one shred of remorse.
That seems to be the same ideology at work in Siddha Yoga.
Interesting how Byron Katie used the term..."The Work Foundation".
Similar to "The SYDA Foundation".
Regardless, they both obviously believe that lying does not exist, so lying is not lying. As a matter of fact, they would believe that trying to tell the truth and be accurate in what you say, is a far bigger lie than just making stuff up out of your imagination, which to them is more real than any "objective fact". (other than getting paid actual money).
This is why they can lie with impunity.
So Byron Katie is really is a cult of lies.
That might sound harsh, but it appears to be quite accurate, for those deeply involved. They get a spiritual rush from lying, as to them that is a "higher reality".
One would be wise not get involved with a person who has been in the Byron Katie group for more than a year or two, and has been deeply indocrinated into this system. You literally cannot believe a word they say, in the normal sense a normal human interacts with other people.
That explains a lot. Actually, it seems to explain everything about Byron Katie and The Work, and her people. Good thing they burned their own book "Losing The Moon", it had more than a little too much information in it. A little too honest about the lying. You see, you have to lie about the lying too to make it work.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2008 04:47PM by The Anticult.
Re: Byron Katie Steven Sashen Carol Skolnick et al.
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: July 01, 2008 08:43PM
I think this is a very important point to keep in mind. I really do believe that folks like Skolnick and Sashen are so deeply involved in the work that they cannot see what is really going on. After all, they both use the work at least partially, if not fully, as their livelihood. Their livelihood! That's VERY DEEP involvement.Quote
The Anticult
So now its easy to understand how Carol Skolnick and Steven Sashen and others can write and say what they do. They have been deeply indocrinated by Byron Katie to the deepest level, and no longer even believe there is such a thing as a "lie".
I need to remember this because I want to be understanding and compassionate towards them. I was in their shoes not so long ago, even though to a far lesser degree.
On the other hand, I agree with Anticult that it can be necessary to react very strongly and even angrily to BK's stuff, because the force of it needs to be overpowered vigorously, otherwise there's danger of it sinking in again and pulling one back into the fold.
I am shocked now at how often I used to watch those BK videos on YouTube, over and over and over... I believe that a big reason I did that was because the work wasn't really delivering for me anymore, as it had in the very beginning, and I figured if I kept watching BK in action, I'd finally "get" it. Yikes!
The Secret
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: July 01, 2008 09:19PM
The BIGr Secret
The Rick Ross Message Board Thread THEY Do Not Want You to Read!!!
Its titled 'Manipulating the Room's Environment'
[forum.culteducation.com]
I am still trying to sort this out, but it might be useful to break this down into an analogy..see a group as similar to a computer--the applications part (MS word, browsers), the operating systems portion (MS DOS), and the hardware (your PC, Mac or laptop).
*applications/software (verbal content/'brain candy'--distraction from:)
*the operating sytem (social set up, lack of informed consent, use of trusted friendship networks as referrals, disavowal of ethos of care by powerholder, requirement that participants sign away rights as citizens to sue for damages, lack of informed consent for subjects)
Features of the Operating system can vary a little bit. Some groups or teachers might set it up to panic people into fearing not enough seats are available, then when folks are in a state of unenlightened craving, suddenly reassure them that some seats have become available, after all. This alternation between anxiety and relief can be quite tiring for some. And, your average New Ager can be made to feel guilty for getting hetzed up by a seat shortage...especially when the serene teacher shows up. Other gurus do it by keeping people waiting. Joyce Collin Smith in her book Call No Man Master, had to wait a long time, and while fasting, carrying a handful of fruit and a handkerchief, before Maharishi finally kept the appointment, showed up and intiated her into his system. Later analysts have made a case that the intiation into TM was trance induction, btw (C)
The hardware of a computer. (LGAT room set up, which trolls didnt want us to know about, sleep deprivation)
Anticult refers to the brain candy--the verbal content that dazzles people, gets the brain curious--and can be used to distract us from the more covert but much more powerful working elements of the brew. The brain candy part can derive from any belief system on the planet, even from honorable and ancient sources, that when NOT packaged in LGAT materials, have helped people.
The 'application'---the distracting verbal content, the mind candy--varies from group to group. (An application is like Excel or MS Word)
But the HARDWARE--room set up, the covert methods used to throw the body off balance, use of sleep deprivation, etc, elimination of outside distraction.
****Now, there is one feature of the brain candy that does slide us right into a groups Operating System.
If you buy into any version of 'You make your own reality', this undercuts the philosophical foundation for what is termed the powerholder's 'ethos of care'--that someone who has power is responsible for its skilled and benevolent use, in relation to those who have less power.
Very few who are thrilled by the brain candy of 'you make your own reality' realize that this leaves them totally unprotected in relation to the folks teaching this solipsistic stance.
Two...to complicate matters, you dont have to be in someone's indoctrintation chamber to get exposed to versions of you-make-your-own-reality.' It floats around in the culture and I think it makes many people
susceptible to indoctrination--the way getting tired and malnourished can make you more likely to get a virulent case of the flu if you encounter the virus. Someone who doesnt buy into any version of that you make your own reality shit may either never attend an LGAT at all, or see a guru at all, or might leave, that much earlier on.
But once someone passes the threshold of an LGAT and signs that paperwork..they are involved with something, the workings of which they are not allowed to know, or make an informed decision about, while still well rested enough to do so.
The OPERATING SYSTEM is the convert social psychology and lack of professionalism and lack of any legal accountability or ethos of care. The OPERATING SYSTEM of all these groups is--pretending to teach that you are responsible for everything your life, because you make your own reality, while the group, covertly disavows resposnsibility for your welfare while you are using thier methods and in thier rooms. Part of this Operating Sytem is for you to sign away your right to seek damages through mediation or litigation and the group is unlicensed so it has no legal accountablity as licensed professionals do. Part of the OPERATING SYSTEM is these groups in practice, disavow what medical and mental health professionals call 'ethos of care.'
The guts of the Operating System, the MS DOS or Linux or OS of a cult or LGAT lies in accountablity-how it shifts from the actual sorce of power and social influence down onto the shoulders of the subjects.
The powerholders talk about 'becoming responsible for your life' but the LGAT powerholder never clearly acknowledges responsiblity for his or her group's use of social influence. In practice, the LGAT shifts responsibility for any mishap onto the shoulders of their subjects. And this happens, when
1) subjects are not allowed to know in advance what the group experience consists of and
2) they sign away their right to sue for damages in case they feel they have been harmed. No physician or mental health professional in good standing requires any patient or client to sign away these rights.
(In academia and medical research a proposed experiment has to pass review by a human subjects/ethics committee. There's accountablity. LGATs dont have to pass review by an outside human subjects or ethics committee)
We are used to talking about the software, the 'brain candy' the verbal content of these toxic belief systems. But this can distract us from looking at where the action is--the operating system and the hardware.
To sum up, the Operating System of a cultic or high demand group is that responsibility does not remain with the powerholder but is covertly shifted onto the subject, right when the subject's critical thinking capacities are disabled.
And, IMO, a big part of where critical thinking is disrupted is through the confusion induced by the verbal 'brain candy' and by the impact of the groups HARDWARE ----the room set up and sleep deprivation.
(Note that the trolls who showed up on the room environment thread jeered that we were letting our personal beliefs limit us if we contended that sufficient sleep was vital. LGAT trolls love to try to shame us, suggesting we are weak, if we insist on what human beings need to be fully functional.)
And this is a valuable method of analysis.
Software (verbal content) can change greatly from group to group, just the way you see frequent upgrades of browsers or Word processing applications. As Anticult put it, the brain candy can be derived from any belief system.
The Operating System changes more slowly
And there are way fewer changes made over the years to hardware.
So, look past the verbal content and look much more closely at the:
Operating System (disavowing the ethos of care, lack of informed consent, lack of accountability through licensure for use of powerful methods of social influence, requiring participants to sign away their rights as citizens to sue for damages)
and study the Hardware
Room arrangements, sleep deprivation, and in some cases, diet.
Its not hard to get people sleep deprived. They are learning many Americans dont get the recommended 7 to 8 hours of sleep a night, anyhow.
Two, all one has to do is assign homework after the group ajourns for the evening and if someone is obedient enough to stay up and do the homework and possibly has to commute from the LGAT to his or her home,
that may leave too few hours for sufficient sleep before one returns to the next session of the LGAT the following day.
So, speaking for myself, as Corboy, I will say that any teaching, no matter how accurately it is quoted and no matter how ancient and honorable its source will become corrupt as soon as it is combined and delivered using an LGAT operating system and hardware as discussed above.
If anyone tells you to sign away your rights as a citizen, will not tell you what the weekend consists of, or turns out to have lied, wont promise you confidentiality via signed paperwork, with a copy for your personal file, and if you find out you are not allowed to get 7 to 8 hours of sleep and see a room set up and have weirdoes cleaning up after you in the ways Drew Kopp described...either dont go in or....
get out, dont look back, and demand an refund.
----Implications for Recovery?----------------
It may be that many persons sincerely trying to recover have great difficulty because they think the belief system is the only ingredient that
messed them up--and they may discount other elements that had as great or more profound an effect.
If a seemingly 'Hindu' guru covertly learned LGAT methods from an American buddy who was an LGAT entrepreneur and slipped American style LGAT tech into and under the cover of gorgeous, glittering brocade adorned
chanting and guru theatre, his or her followers may not realize that in addition to the dysfunctions of that guru's interpretation of Hinduism and the guru student role--they may have lingering poisoning from the LGAT
tech that their guru used---and never told them about.
At least if someone knows they went and did LGAT X, they can go right to RR.com and look up LGAT X and quickly find former members who can validate their experiences and share recovery resource info.
But what if you think you got poisoned by bad Hinduism and dont know that part of the poison was derived from an American source--yank style LGAT
tech?
Many former members of an overt Hindu/covert LGAT group may be berating themselves as weak of will for having such difficulty recovering, when they may not know because it was hidden from them, that thier ur-guru, Muktandanda, learned something and applied something from Werner Erhard during the glory days of EST.
So much for people getting entangled in SY because 'that was what they wanted.'
How can you want something when its ingredients are hidden from you by the guru who was the founder?
What if you thought you wanted the gurus grace of Baba Muktananda and covertly were getting the tech of Est?
How can anyone give informed consent to THAT?
How can people want from a group or guru, what they were not told that guru was giving?
Rather than face the utter and nauseating horror of betrayal, its so much easier to cling to 'you make your own reality' and 'You guys got from the guru what you wanted.'
We are damned vulnerable in human relations, even the brightest of us.
And it is painful as hell to endure the gut-shudder of facing that--that to an astounding degree even the brightest of us have so little control over whether someone we trust and who sends us into the most intimate ecstacy...has been lying to us and triggering that ecstacy using standardized techniques learned from an American buddy of his.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2008 09:49PM by corboy.
The Rick Ross Message Board Thread THEY Do Not Want You to Read!!!
Its titled 'Manipulating the Room's Environment'
[forum.culteducation.com]
I am still trying to sort this out, but it might be useful to break this down into an analogy..see a group as similar to a computer--the applications part (MS word, browsers), the operating systems portion (MS DOS), and the hardware (your PC, Mac or laptop).
*applications/software (verbal content/'brain candy'--distraction from:)
*the operating sytem (social set up, lack of informed consent, use of trusted friendship networks as referrals, disavowal of ethos of care by powerholder, requirement that participants sign away rights as citizens to sue for damages, lack of informed consent for subjects)
Features of the Operating system can vary a little bit. Some groups or teachers might set it up to panic people into fearing not enough seats are available, then when folks are in a state of unenlightened craving, suddenly reassure them that some seats have become available, after all. This alternation between anxiety and relief can be quite tiring for some. And, your average New Ager can be made to feel guilty for getting hetzed up by a seat shortage...especially when the serene teacher shows up. Other gurus do it by keeping people waiting. Joyce Collin Smith in her book Call No Man Master, had to wait a long time, and while fasting, carrying a handful of fruit and a handkerchief, before Maharishi finally kept the appointment, showed up and intiated her into his system. Later analysts have made a case that the intiation into TM was trance induction, btw (C)
The hardware of a computer. (LGAT room set up, which trolls didnt want us to know about, sleep deprivation)
Anticult refers to the brain candy--the verbal content that dazzles people, gets the brain curious--and can be used to distract us from the more covert but much more powerful working elements of the brew. The brain candy part can derive from any belief system on the planet, even from honorable and ancient sources, that when NOT packaged in LGAT materials, have helped people.
The 'application'---the distracting verbal content, the mind candy--varies from group to group. (An application is like Excel or MS Word)
But the HARDWARE--room set up, the covert methods used to throw the body off balance, use of sleep deprivation, etc, elimination of outside distraction.
****Now, there is one feature of the brain candy that does slide us right into a groups Operating System.
If you buy into any version of 'You make your own reality', this undercuts the philosophical foundation for what is termed the powerholder's 'ethos of care'--that someone who has power is responsible for its skilled and benevolent use, in relation to those who have less power.
Very few who are thrilled by the brain candy of 'you make your own reality' realize that this leaves them totally unprotected in relation to the folks teaching this solipsistic stance.
Two...to complicate matters, you dont have to be in someone's indoctrintation chamber to get exposed to versions of you-make-your-own-reality.' It floats around in the culture and I think it makes many people
susceptible to indoctrination--the way getting tired and malnourished can make you more likely to get a virulent case of the flu if you encounter the virus. Someone who doesnt buy into any version of that you make your own reality shit may either never attend an LGAT at all, or see a guru at all, or might leave, that much earlier on.
But once someone passes the threshold of an LGAT and signs that paperwork..they are involved with something, the workings of which they are not allowed to know, or make an informed decision about, while still well rested enough to do so.
The OPERATING SYSTEM is the convert social psychology and lack of professionalism and lack of any legal accountability or ethos of care. The OPERATING SYSTEM of all these groups is--pretending to teach that you are responsible for everything your life, because you make your own reality, while the group, covertly disavows resposnsibility for your welfare while you are using thier methods and in thier rooms. Part of this Operating Sytem is for you to sign away your right to seek damages through mediation or litigation and the group is unlicensed so it has no legal accountablity as licensed professionals do. Part of the OPERATING SYSTEM is these groups in practice, disavow what medical and mental health professionals call 'ethos of care.'
The guts of the Operating System, the MS DOS or Linux or OS of a cult or LGAT lies in accountablity-how it shifts from the actual sorce of power and social influence down onto the shoulders of the subjects.
The powerholders talk about 'becoming responsible for your life' but the LGAT powerholder never clearly acknowledges responsiblity for his or her group's use of social influence. In practice, the LGAT shifts responsibility for any mishap onto the shoulders of their subjects. And this happens, when
1) subjects are not allowed to know in advance what the group experience consists of and
2) they sign away their right to sue for damages in case they feel they have been harmed. No physician or mental health professional in good standing requires any patient or client to sign away these rights.
(In academia and medical research a proposed experiment has to pass review by a human subjects/ethics committee. There's accountablity. LGATs dont have to pass review by an outside human subjects or ethics committee)
We are used to talking about the software, the 'brain candy' the verbal content of these toxic belief systems. But this can distract us from looking at where the action is--the operating system and the hardware.
To sum up, the Operating System of a cultic or high demand group is that responsibility does not remain with the powerholder but is covertly shifted onto the subject, right when the subject's critical thinking capacities are disabled.
And, IMO, a big part of where critical thinking is disrupted is through the confusion induced by the verbal 'brain candy' and by the impact of the groups HARDWARE ----the room set up and sleep deprivation.
(Note that the trolls who showed up on the room environment thread jeered that we were letting our personal beliefs limit us if we contended that sufficient sleep was vital. LGAT trolls love to try to shame us, suggesting we are weak, if we insist on what human beings need to be fully functional.)
And this is a valuable method of analysis.
Software (verbal content) can change greatly from group to group, just the way you see frequent upgrades of browsers or Word processing applications. As Anticult put it, the brain candy can be derived from any belief system.
The Operating System changes more slowly
And there are way fewer changes made over the years to hardware.
So, look past the verbal content and look much more closely at the:
Operating System (disavowing the ethos of care, lack of informed consent, lack of accountability through licensure for use of powerful methods of social influence, requiring participants to sign away their rights as citizens to sue for damages)
and study the Hardware
Room arrangements, sleep deprivation, and in some cases, diet.
Its not hard to get people sleep deprived. They are learning many Americans dont get the recommended 7 to 8 hours of sleep a night, anyhow.
Two, all one has to do is assign homework after the group ajourns for the evening and if someone is obedient enough to stay up and do the homework and possibly has to commute from the LGAT to his or her home,
that may leave too few hours for sufficient sleep before one returns to the next session of the LGAT the following day.
So, speaking for myself, as Corboy, I will say that any teaching, no matter how accurately it is quoted and no matter how ancient and honorable its source will become corrupt as soon as it is combined and delivered using an LGAT operating system and hardware as discussed above.
If anyone tells you to sign away your rights as a citizen, will not tell you what the weekend consists of, or turns out to have lied, wont promise you confidentiality via signed paperwork, with a copy for your personal file, and if you find out you are not allowed to get 7 to 8 hours of sleep and see a room set up and have weirdoes cleaning up after you in the ways Drew Kopp described...either dont go in or....
get out, dont look back, and demand an refund.
----Implications for Recovery?----------------
It may be that many persons sincerely trying to recover have great difficulty because they think the belief system is the only ingredient that
messed them up--and they may discount other elements that had as great or more profound an effect.
If a seemingly 'Hindu' guru covertly learned LGAT methods from an American buddy who was an LGAT entrepreneur and slipped American style LGAT tech into and under the cover of gorgeous, glittering brocade adorned
chanting and guru theatre, his or her followers may not realize that in addition to the dysfunctions of that guru's interpretation of Hinduism and the guru student role--they may have lingering poisoning from the LGAT
tech that their guru used---and never told them about.
At least if someone knows they went and did LGAT X, they can go right to RR.com and look up LGAT X and quickly find former members who can validate their experiences and share recovery resource info.
But what if you think you got poisoned by bad Hinduism and dont know that part of the poison was derived from an American source--yank style LGAT
tech?
Many former members of an overt Hindu/covert LGAT group may be berating themselves as weak of will for having such difficulty recovering, when they may not know because it was hidden from them, that thier ur-guru, Muktandanda, learned something and applied something from Werner Erhard during the glory days of EST.
So much for people getting entangled in SY because 'that was what they wanted.'
How can you want something when its ingredients are hidden from you by the guru who was the founder?
What if you thought you wanted the gurus grace of Baba Muktananda and covertly were getting the tech of Est?
How can anyone give informed consent to THAT?
How can people want from a group or guru, what they were not told that guru was giving?
Rather than face the utter and nauseating horror of betrayal, its so much easier to cling to 'you make your own reality' and 'You guys got from the guru what you wanted.'
We are damned vulnerable in human relations, even the brightest of us.
And it is painful as hell to endure the gut-shudder of facing that--that to an astounding degree even the brightest of us have so little control over whether someone we trust and who sends us into the most intimate ecstacy...has been lying to us and triggering that ecstacy using standardized techniques learned from an American buddy of his.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2008 09:49PM by corboy.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
solea13
()
Date: July 02, 2008 12:04AM
Quote
question lady
solea, I would be very interested to hear more about the mindset that led you to leave your partner. It might be helpful to have that topic, and corboy's meme info in a thread of their own since the information is likely applicable to ,many 'teachers', not just Byron Katie.
Hi, questionlady, I think that it was helpme2times who said that s/he(?) had left a partner of 13 years. Perhaps in all the many posts that have been made she did not catch you comment. I re-post and perhaps she will answer to help you further :)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2008 12:05AM by solea13.
Byron Katie (the Work) the Ashram environment, Gangaji, Ellen J. Mack
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: July 02, 2008 03:04AM
This is some extremely valuable knowledge, and can be applied to many different groups and gurus.
One other thing, is to make sure to make the translation to different structures and cultures.
For example..."Manipulating the Ashram Environment".
They do things like overcrowding, overheating, undersleeping, undereating, all night chanting, etc.
So there seems to be a cross-fertilization, where guys like Werner Erhard brought the advanced LGAT mind-control Tech from the west, and fused it with the more ancient methods from the east. The eastern Gurus loved it, as they wanted some yankee dollars, the western Guru's loved it, as having a Swami made you seem "deep" in those days.
Its interesting that one of the female western Gurus mentioned in the Byron Katie book above...Gangaji...does actually admit to doing est Erhard Seminar Trainings.
__________________________________
Gangaji, born Merle Antoinette ("Toni") Roberson in Texas in 1942, is an American author, speaker, sometimes considered a lay or spiritual counselor, teacher or "guru". ...
Her philosophy is described as nondualism consistent with Advaita Vedanta.
She did a stint of personal development training with a group called Arica which included "mantras, physical exercises, group processing of emotions" as well as dancing naked in an old mansion on a hill, took Bodhisattva vows and a Tibetan name of "White Tara, the female embodiment of wisdom and compassion", switched to Zen, practiced peer counseling, took Erhard Seminars Training...
[en.wikipedia.org]
___________________________________
Arica Institute
[forum.culteducation.com]
____
Obviously Byron Katie did the est and/or the Landmark Forum by Werner Erhard around that time too, probably under one of her earlier names.
So the Ellen J. Mack who wrote the introduction to Losing The Moon seems to have been a seeker/follower/friend of Gangaji and the rest of them, and was "referred" to Byron Katie by someone.
Byron Katie clearly was deeply into the eastern style Nonduality stuff, and probably studied with some type of eastern Guru or Gurus at the time. People who were around then would know who it was, and hopefully someone will post that info somewhere.
Byron Katie then fused the eastern philosophy stuff, with the western style LGAT technology, and made them fairly seamless. Now she has backed away from most of the eastern terminology as that alienates westerners, but its still there in the overall concepts.
What is very interesting, is one small clue Byron Katie does give from her past, is that she ran her first Guru business out of her own house, with her students even living in her house. Of course she implies they showed up out of the blue, but its just personal referrals which bring people in, not magic. Same as her other business Real Estate, referrals, referrals, referrals.
So in factual reality, Byron Katie was running her own personal Ashram out of her house when she started.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2008 03:18AM by The Anticult.
One other thing, is to make sure to make the translation to different structures and cultures.
For example..."Manipulating the Ashram Environment".
They do things like overcrowding, overheating, undersleeping, undereating, all night chanting, etc.
So there seems to be a cross-fertilization, where guys like Werner Erhard brought the advanced LGAT mind-control Tech from the west, and fused it with the more ancient methods from the east. The eastern Gurus loved it, as they wanted some yankee dollars, the western Guru's loved it, as having a Swami made you seem "deep" in those days.
Its interesting that one of the female western Gurus mentioned in the Byron Katie book above...Gangaji...does actually admit to doing est Erhard Seminar Trainings.
__________________________________
Gangaji, born Merle Antoinette ("Toni") Roberson in Texas in 1942, is an American author, speaker, sometimes considered a lay or spiritual counselor, teacher or "guru". ...
Her philosophy is described as nondualism consistent with Advaita Vedanta.
She did a stint of personal development training with a group called Arica which included "mantras, physical exercises, group processing of emotions" as well as dancing naked in an old mansion on a hill, took Bodhisattva vows and a Tibetan name of "White Tara, the female embodiment of wisdom and compassion", switched to Zen, practiced peer counseling, took Erhard Seminars Training...
[en.wikipedia.org]
___________________________________
Arica Institute
[forum.culteducation.com]
____
Obviously Byron Katie did the est and/or the Landmark Forum by Werner Erhard around that time too, probably under one of her earlier names.
So the Ellen J. Mack who wrote the introduction to Losing The Moon seems to have been a seeker/follower/friend of Gangaji and the rest of them, and was "referred" to Byron Katie by someone.
Byron Katie clearly was deeply into the eastern style Nonduality stuff, and probably studied with some type of eastern Guru or Gurus at the time. People who were around then would know who it was, and hopefully someone will post that info somewhere.
Byron Katie then fused the eastern philosophy stuff, with the western style LGAT technology, and made them fairly seamless. Now she has backed away from most of the eastern terminology as that alienates westerners, but its still there in the overall concepts.
What is very interesting, is one small clue Byron Katie does give from her past, is that she ran her first Guru business out of her own house, with her students even living in her house. Of course she implies they showed up out of the blue, but its just personal referrals which bring people in, not magic. Same as her other business Real Estate, referrals, referrals, referrals.
So in factual reality, Byron Katie was running her own personal Ashram out of her house when she started.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2008 03:18AM by The Anticult.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) Jane Roberts Gangaji Etc.
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: July 02, 2008 03:31AM
Yep, Solea, that be's me. :-) I will try and answer questionlady's question. (For the record, I am a female in my 40's.)Quote
solea13Quote
question lady
solea, I would be very interested to hear more about the mindset that led you to leave your partner. It might be helpful to have that topic, and corboy's meme info in a thread of their own since the information is likely applicable to ,many 'teachers', not just Byron Katie.
Hi, questionlady, I think that it was helpme2times who said that s/he(?) had left a partner of 13 years. Perhaps in all the many posts that have been made she did not catch you comment. I re-post and perhaps she will answer to help you further :)
I would say that I became vulnerable to culty stuff when I was a junior in college and a close friend gave me one of Jane Roberts' "Seth" books, The Nature of Personal Reality. That and other "Seth" books tout the famous "you create your own reality" meme. Having grown up in a very difficult, unhappy environment, the "ycyor" philosophy was very appealing to me. Just the idea of it gave me a boost. (I now see that I interpreted the boost as proof that the idea worked.)
For a looong time after coming upon the Seth book, I sought out a lot of techniques that were supposed to help me "create my reality". I tried out such approaches as Rebirthing, a Gurdjieff group, self-help books, strict diets. Later on I got more "spiritual" and delved into Yoga, Taoism, Sufism, etc. Unfortunately I wasn't receiving the type of results I'd been led to expect by Jane Roberts et al., but I kept on seeking - True Believer that I was.
Some years into my marriage, I decided that my husband was my main stumbling block and that's why I divorced him. At least two sources influenced my decision heavily: 1) my husband's extreme dislike of a Sufi group I became involved in (which I strongly believe to be a cult), and 2) the female guru Gangaji's teaching that one has to be utterly willing to let everything in their life fall apart for the sake of the "Truth".
Grrrrr, this shit makes me so mad. My exhusband was/is a great guy. But on the plus side, I think I've finally let go of needing to "create my reality" - at least to the extent promised by the new age camps. There is actually great relief in that, believe it or not. Now there's much more of an allowance for me to be a human being, rather than some sort of demi-god.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2008 03:38AM by helpme2times.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
solea13
()
Date: July 02, 2008 04:27AM
There is so much information on this thread. I am still thinking about Ericksonian Hypnosis and 'Teaching Stories'.
My guru used Teaching Stories to a certain extent. We all listened to, read and studied these stories to understand as much as possible about our teachings. I am wondering to what extent these teaching stories may have had embedded messages as described with Byron Katie.
Here is one example:
A disciple asked his Master: "How can I be one with God?"
The Master did not reply but led the young disciple into the middle of the water in silence. Then all of a sudden, he pushed him down and held him underwater .
After a long wait, the Master pulled him out and asked him calmly: "When you were underwater, what were you thinking of?"
"Why Master, at that moment I was only craving for some air to breathe."
The Master the said: "You see son, only when you think of God with as much fervor as you craved the air above when you were underwater, only then will you be one with God."
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2008 04:31AM by solea13.
My guru used Teaching Stories to a certain extent. We all listened to, read and studied these stories to understand as much as possible about our teachings. I am wondering to what extent these teaching stories may have had embedded messages as described with Byron Katie.
Here is one example:
A disciple asked his Master: "How can I be one with God?"
The Master did not reply but led the young disciple into the middle of the water in silence. Then all of a sudden, he pushed him down and held him underwater .
After a long wait, the Master pulled him out and asked him calmly: "When you were underwater, what were you thinking of?"
"Why Master, at that moment I was only craving for some air to breathe."
The Master the said: "You see son, only when you think of God with as much fervor as you craved the air above when you were underwater, only then will you be one with God."
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2008 04:31AM by solea13.
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