Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: June 30, 2008 10:20PM
The website for Siddha Yoga is still up
[www.siddhayoga.org]
And they are still giving shaktipat intensives, too.
Note the prices for the silk and pashmina/cashmere shawls. If you want something of that sort, I advise some comparison shopping on ebay.com
Not very large, either--40 inches wide x 78 inches long.
Unless you're a tiny person, its barely enough to cover your ass, even
when sitting cross legged.
[siddhayogabookstore.org]
Here are some reflections in January from the Rituals of Disenchantment blog. This was when Gurumayi was due to deliver a much anticipated message in person (after having been in seclusion for a long time) about the state of the Siddha yoga nation.
I advise interested readers who want to know about the Eat Pray Love ashram to read ALL of the January articles on Rituals of Disenchantment and also, please take the time to read the many comments.
[ritualsofdisenchantment.blogspot.com]
[ritualsofdisenchantment.blogspot.com]
Following this article, please scroll down and read the comments. There, among them, some detailed info is mentioned about a court case in India that might possibly have repercussions for SY in the US--still being discussed as it is a complex matter. Read and ponder for yourselves.
Remember how different the matter was with Jesus. The closest thing he had to property was the shirt on his back.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2008 10:28PM by corboy.
[www.siddhayoga.org]
And they are still giving shaktipat intensives, too.
Note the prices for the silk and pashmina/cashmere shawls. If you want something of that sort, I advise some comparison shopping on ebay.com
Not very large, either--40 inches wide x 78 inches long.
Unless you're a tiny person, its barely enough to cover your ass, even
when sitting cross legged.
[siddhayogabookstore.org]
Here are some reflections in January from the Rituals of Disenchantment blog. This was when Gurumayi was due to deliver a much anticipated message in person (after having been in seclusion for a long time) about the state of the Siddha yoga nation.
I advise interested readers who want to know about the Eat Pray Love ashram to read ALL of the January articles on Rituals of Disenchantment and also, please take the time to read the many comments.
[ritualsofdisenchantment.blogspot.com]
[ritualsofdisenchantment.blogspot.com]
Following this article, please scroll down and read the comments. There, among them, some detailed info is mentioned about a court case in India that might possibly have repercussions for SY in the US--still being discussed as it is a complex matter. Read and ponder for yourselves.
Remember how different the matter was with Jesus. The closest thing he had to property was the shirt on his back.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2008 10:28PM by corboy.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
solea13
()
Date: June 30, 2008 10:42PM
There is a thread from a guy who posted on the Oprah message board entitled "My wife is leaving me"
[www.oprah.com]
There's also another thread for women who are thinking about leaving their husbands, as though reading 'Eat, Pray, Love' was going to give them the 'strength' or 'courage' to be 'free to find their true selves' and do so.
When I heard that Madonna is possibly considering a divorce from Guy Ritchie, my first thought was 'Kabbalah' he doesn't want to do Kabbalah any more.
Sure enough, when I finally read an article about it yesterday, reports do say that he has quit Kabbalah. Of course, we don't know if these reported things about celebrities are completely accurate, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that when people become 'excessively devoted' to these philosophical systems or ideas, it can destroy their relationships.
So this is a concern for me in terms of Elizabeth Gilbert's book. Why are relationships breaking up as a result of people reading and begining to be drawn in to her philosophy of life?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2008 10:44PM by solea13.
[www.oprah.com]
There's also another thread for women who are thinking about leaving their husbands, as though reading 'Eat, Pray, Love' was going to give them the 'strength' or 'courage' to be 'free to find their true selves' and do so.
When I heard that Madonna is possibly considering a divorce from Guy Ritchie, my first thought was 'Kabbalah' he doesn't want to do Kabbalah any more.
Sure enough, when I finally read an article about it yesterday, reports do say that he has quit Kabbalah. Of course, we don't know if these reported things about celebrities are completely accurate, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that when people become 'excessively devoted' to these philosophical systems or ideas, it can destroy their relationships.
So this is a concern for me in terms of Elizabeth Gilbert's book. Why are relationships breaking up as a result of people reading and begining to be drawn in to her philosophy of life?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2008 10:44PM by solea13.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: June 30, 2008 10:55PM
This is a great question to ask and it's freaking me out a bit because I now realize that I left a great partner of 13 years mainly because of a new age mindset I developed.Quote
solea13
So this is a concern for me in terms of Elizabeth Gilbert's book. Why are relationships breaking up as a result of people reading and begining to be drawn in to her philosophy of life?
Fortunately I am on very good terms with my ex, which is a great blessing, but it really pisses me off that I felt I had to leave him. Damn.
On Memes
Posted by:
Vera City
()
Date: July 01, 2008 01:22AM
Quote
corboy
The Rick Ross Message Board Golden Oldies Threads
Or..various ways human beings are manipulable--especially the ones who consider themselves special, invulnerable and impervious
There are a pair of old threads instigated by a discussion of a different group
that sparked discussion of what have been called 'memes' and what some
term 'viruses of the mind.'
How We Propagate Memes and Do Not Know It
[forum.culteducation.com]
Signs a person has been infected by a meme/virus of the mind
[forum.culteducation.com]
When your mean to your fellow, you're nobody's hero]
Quote
Vera City
Corboy,
I am new to the meme theory of mind, or the concept of mind viruses. I am reading with interest all the links. It seems to explain a lot , but is it a legitimate psychological phenomenon? Does the meme theory really propose that there is no such thing as free will or is this the humanist strand of meme-ness? From watching a video about the Brethren cult I was struck by the fact that some people were recruited in a matter of hours or days. Those are rapidly reproducing meme complexes!
This rapidity of conversion without long torture or brainwashing sessions or systematic meditation techniques over time has been inexplicable to me. The power of the environment, culture, milieu control seems logical, but up until now the question of susesptibility to cults has been puzzling in cases of rapid fire recruitments from a stable life to an extremely different lifestyle. Does the meme theory explain this or am I not understanding something?
It makes sense to divide memes up into categories: beneficial, neutral, and parasitic. But how does meme theory compare to Marshall McLuhan's book The Medium is the Message ?
I once had the fortune to own the original misprinted copy ironically titled, The Medium is the Massage"! ;)
What I am understanding from your post here and the one about Carl Jung's refusal to do the grand tour of Indian gurus is the importance of realizing how very, very vulnerable we humans are--- We don't seem to operate so naturally out of a conscious free will. Perhaps we are not as predisposed to freedom of thought as we think?Quote
corboy
For a provocative paper that describes the theory behind what Guy Fawkes has been telling us, go to 'Welcome to the Meme Lab' and read the paper 'A Beginner's Guide to Memes' by Dr Susan Blackmore.
[www.memes.org.uk]
It is best to read the paper before responding to the material on this post. Blackmore's paper is well written and can be understood by anyone who is interested in the material on Rickross.com
Daniel Dennett, a philosopher who has contributed to meme-theory is quoted by Dr Blackmore, as mentioning 'bad religions' as an example of a meme-complex. Dr. Blackmore's paper says nothing about specific bad religions and does NOT name any organization that has been identified in the media or courts of law as a cult. But persons who have been affected by certain groups are at liberty to apply meme-theory to their situation and see whether doing so will give them a helpful sense of mastery that assists recovery.
Thus, the concept of memes is a theory, but it can be used as genuine awareness tool, a model for grasping what is being done in problematic LGATs.
I suggest that adult level critical thinking and insight are difficult to apply when you are in certain states of mind. If you are tired, anxious, or in a state of toxic shame, you are likely to regress to a child's state of mind and cannot protect yourself by applying adult insight.
Lack of complete information, peer pressure and trance especially disrupt critical thinking.
Dr Blackmore does not say so in her paper, but I suggest that if a meme or meme-plex is implanted when a person is in these 'insight resistant' states of mind (eg you've been given incomplete information, making informed consent impossible, your trust has been won under false pretenses, you're feeling afraid of being yelled at, or ashamed after being guilt tripped, you've been put in a state of trance etc)--memes implanted under these conditions may be especially difficult to detect and remove later on.
IMO You will be unaware of the extent to which your 'mental furniture' has been re-arranged!
Since memes and meme-plexes have such powerful effects on your states of mind, your relationships, and your future development as a human being, you are entitled to be as alert and well informed as possible when someone offers to implant a new set of memes or a novel meme plex in your mind.
Memes--Beneficial, Neutral, Parasitic
For not all memes or meme-complexes are harmful. Some, like good recipes, are useful. Many are neutral. And some appear from reports by various correspondants, to be downright toxic and parasitic. These are the ones discussed on Rickross.com
By extension, aggressive entities like problematic LGATs are perfect examples of meme-complexes that do not just successfully propagate but seem parasitic, even disruptive.
Unlike successful but benign memes (good songs, good recipes or the right way to pour a pint of Guinness) a parasitic meme or meme-complex coarsens the mind and disrupt people's capacity for informed choice and uncoerced relationships.
Some Memes Wake Us Up/ Other Memes Put Us to Sleep
Meme theory can be used to help us wake up, and consciously choose what to allow into our inner lives. By contrast, problematic LGATs could be considered covert downloads of memes that that put us into trance, seal us off from outside influences, reduce our inner lives to boring uniformity, and plug us into the Matrix.
'So called Cults' are Parasitic Memes-- Crabgrass for the Mind
Many memes and meme-complexes co-exist harmoniously with a diverse array of memes. Problematic LGATs may be considered a meme plexes that demand an authoritarian/uncontested monopoly over the mind of the person's it has been implanted in.
[b:28491c668c]
Its the demand for uncontested monopoly that makes a meme or memeplex parasitic[/b:28491c668c]
A resentment of outside data about a group is also a symptom.
What harmful LGATs do is implant the cognitive equivalent of computer viruses (or, to use the gardening analogy, crabgrass) into our minds.
The scripted controlled setting of many LGATs, and the tell tale embargo on outside stimulation/outside data uncontrolled by the LGAT have this effect:
To reformat and purge large sectors of subjects' minds and emotions, creating free space into which the guru/trainer/leader/coach/facilitator downloads the LGAT 'meme-complex'.
You are then turned loose on the unsuspecting general population, feeling high as a kite, DUI. You babble about the LGATmeme to everyone you know, to pull them in, so their lovely unique minds can be reformatted and programmed with the same, uniform LGAT meme-plex.
As Dr Black more puts it, a meme that people constantly think about and talk about is one that is more likely to be propagated. That, in a nutshell is how 'Sell it by zealot' works!
..
So, there you are. . Your destiny is not to be a unique being, but to babble your way through life, propagating the LGAT meme-plex, to bring others in.
That is why the public must be given the information needed to make fully informed decisions before participating in something that will re-format their minds and turn their unique inner lives into Starbucked strip malls.
Re: On Memes
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: July 01, 2008 01:43AM
Not long ago writer Steve Salerno wrote an interesting blog re his belief in determinism:
[[url=http://shambook.blogspot.com/2008/05/page-proof.html]Page Proof?[/url]]
I also recall Ramana Maharshi (one of the few gurus I like) talking about the "Ordainer" of the world being responsible for everything. Who knows?
[[url=http://shambook.blogspot.com/2008/05/page-proof.html]Page Proof?[/url]]
I also recall Ramana Maharshi (one of the few gurus I like) talking about the "Ordainer" of the world being responsible for everything. Who knows?
Quote
Vera City
What I am understanding from your post here and the one about Carl Jung's refusal to do the grand tour of Indian gurus is the importance of realizing how very, very vulnerable we humans are--- We don't seem to operate so naturally out of a conscious free will. Perhaps we are not as predisposed to freedom of thought as we think?
Re: On Memes
Posted by:
Vera City
()
Date: July 01, 2008 01:53AM
Thanks for the link 2times.
It's the MEME THING I find so intriguing. The idea is so Phillip K. Dick. :)
But it reasons out a lot for me. Not in total agreement with Madame Meme herself, Dr. Blackmore, but it has given me some food for thought.
It's the MEME THING I find so intriguing. The idea is so Phillip K. Dick. :)
But it reasons out a lot for me. Not in total agreement with Madame Meme herself, Dr. Blackmore, but it has given me some food for thought.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
question lady
()
Date: July 01, 2008 01:57AM
Quote
helpme2timesThis is a great question to ask and it's freaking me out a bit because I now realize that I left a great partner of 13 years mainly because of a new age mindset I developed.Quote
solea13
So this is a concern for me in terms of Elizabeth Gilbert's book. Why are relationships breaking up as a result of people reading and begining to be drawn in to her philosophy of life?
Fortunately I am on very good terms with my ex, which is a great blessing, but it really pisses me off that I felt I had to leave him. Damn.
solea, I would be very interested to hear more about the mindset that led you to leave your partner. It might be helpful to have that topic, and corboy's meme info in a thread of their own since the information is likely applicable to ,many 'teachers', not just Byron Katie.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) Stuart Resnick aka RandomStu
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: July 01, 2008 05:13AM
You know what? I am feeling upset with myself for having been a smartass to "RandomStu".
Although I believe that I was justified in feeling angry, that does not excuse my crossing the line over into nastiness, which I did at least once.
Granted, I still feel wary as to Stuart's motives, conscious and/or unconscious. Rick could be right that Stuart may not have dealt with his own cult affiliations enough that he can participate helpfully/therapeutically in discussions here.
Still...
Stuart, I apologize for overreacting and getting nasty.
(As Elvis Costello sings, "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?")
Although I believe that I was justified in feeling angry, that does not excuse my crossing the line over into nastiness, which I did at least once.
Granted, I still feel wary as to Stuart's motives, conscious and/or unconscious. Rick could be right that Stuart may not have dealt with his own cult affiliations enough that he can participate helpfully/therapeutically in discussions here.
Still...
Stuart, I apologize for overreacting and getting nasty.
(As Elvis Costello sings, "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?")
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) vs Baloney Detection Kit
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: July 01, 2008 05:37AM
The New Age mega-Gurus like Byron Katie know that if people exercise Critical Thinking skills, they literally cannot get them to buy-in.
So they have devised many ways to try to disable their critical thinking ability, and disguise it in the form of releasing from the "Ego", being "Mindless", having No Mind, etc.
This is simply a way to Disarm The Mind.
Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell also do Programmed Confusion all the time.
What is really atrocious, is that they are telling people the Thinking Mind is their enemy, which is FALSE. Our thinking minds have been put there by Nature to help us prosper. The thinking mind is a wonder of nature, nothing could more more natural.
Now of course, they build elaborate systems to make a mess out of all of this, and it can get very complex. Thankfully, some very smart people have put out ways to help us.
By apply some very simple methods of Critical Intelligence and Critical Thinking, a person can cut through the most distorted, complex mumbo-jumbo they try to throw at you to confuse you.
For example, Carl Sagan and his Baloney Detection Kit. [users.tpg.com.au]
You don't have to use all of it, even just parts of it. For example...WHERE'S THE PROOF? Anecdotes are not proof. Arguments from Authority, etc.
This little series of questions can change a person's life. (unlike the Byron Katie questions, which are a rigged system of polarized distorted thinking). Anyone can print out that Baloney Detection Kit page, and run any Guru system, Byron Katie, or culty thing through it, and see if it survives. Very simple, and very powerful and helpful.
And as far as Covert Influence, there is quite a bit of info out there, here is a thread from before. But please don't buy this guys book, get it from the library. Kevin Hogan is a very slippery guy.
Covert Persuasion [Unconscious Influence]
[forum.culteducation.com]
Covert Persuasion: Psychological Tactics and Tricks to Win the Game (Hardcover)
by Kevin Hogan (Author), James Speakman (Author)
So they have devised many ways to try to disable their critical thinking ability, and disguise it in the form of releasing from the "Ego", being "Mindless", having No Mind, etc.
This is simply a way to Disarm The Mind.
Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell also do Programmed Confusion all the time.
What is really atrocious, is that they are telling people the Thinking Mind is their enemy, which is FALSE. Our thinking minds have been put there by Nature to help us prosper. The thinking mind is a wonder of nature, nothing could more more natural.
Now of course, they build elaborate systems to make a mess out of all of this, and it can get very complex. Thankfully, some very smart people have put out ways to help us.
By apply some very simple methods of Critical Intelligence and Critical Thinking, a person can cut through the most distorted, complex mumbo-jumbo they try to throw at you to confuse you.
For example, Carl Sagan and his Baloney Detection Kit. [users.tpg.com.au]
You don't have to use all of it, even just parts of it. For example...WHERE'S THE PROOF? Anecdotes are not proof. Arguments from Authority, etc.
This little series of questions can change a person's life. (unlike the Byron Katie questions, which are a rigged system of polarized distorted thinking). Anyone can print out that Baloney Detection Kit page, and run any Guru system, Byron Katie, or culty thing through it, and see if it survives. Very simple, and very powerful and helpful.
And as far as Covert Influence, there is quite a bit of info out there, here is a thread from before. But please don't buy this guys book, get it from the library. Kevin Hogan is a very slippery guy.
Covert Persuasion [Unconscious Influence]
[forum.culteducation.com]
Covert Persuasion: Psychological Tactics and Tricks to Win the Game (Hardcover)
by Kevin Hogan (Author), James Speakman (Author)
Quote
solea13
As I try to abosrb all the information, I think of how my guru told us "be happy ... don't think". It is a phrase that current cult members parrot at me every time I ask a difficult or unusual question.
But with all the possibility to be led on a deceptive path by unscrupulous gurus, how could any enlightened Master tell people not to develop their critical thinking ability? Telling people not to think is like leading lambs to the ... slaughter ... ohhh ... yeah.
...
I must say good job for all the research. Just this thread in itself has become a valuable resource. The more one is educated, the more one is prepared to fend off this stuff. Plus it actually feels good to exercise the gray matter. Just like physical exercise, it hurts at first and then you get into the habit again, and you feel much healthier mentally.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and DIVORCE
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: July 01, 2008 05:50AM
Its very common in these culty groups to draw people into divorce, if the spouse is against the culty system. On the most cynical level, the divorced spouse could now feel more vacant in their life, and sometimes devotes their entire new life to the Guru.
No question, they do exploit troubles in people's relationships. Pain = Profit.
Byron Katie even takes people's wedding rings...this is symbolic of a "transference" of that level of intimacy to Byron Katie, she gets in the middle of your marriage on an emotional level.
In the Royal Way group, their leader Michael Gottlieb also inserts himself in the middle of your relationships and sex life...Byron Katie also gets into the "sex" stuff all the time...its all about building false intimacy with people through the media.
"BECOME THEIR BEST FRIEND" method and also Love-Bombing.
It will be interesting to see more info emerging about the book, EAT, PRAY, LOVE-bomb, as time goes by.
No question, they do exploit troubles in people's relationships. Pain = Profit.
Byron Katie even takes people's wedding rings...this is symbolic of a "transference" of that level of intimacy to Byron Katie, she gets in the middle of your marriage on an emotional level.
In the Royal Way group, their leader Michael Gottlieb also inserts himself in the middle of your relationships and sex life...Byron Katie also gets into the "sex" stuff all the time...its all about building false intimacy with people through the media.
"BECOME THEIR BEST FRIEND" method and also Love-Bombing.
It will be interesting to see more info emerging about the book, EAT, PRAY, LOVE-bomb, as time goes by.
Quote
solea13
There is a thread from a guy who posted on the Oprah message board entitled "My wife is leaving me"
[www.oprah.com]
There's also another thread for women who are thinking about leaving their husbands, as though reading 'Eat, Pray, Love' was going to give them the 'strength' or 'courage' to be 'free to find their true selves' and do so.
...
So this is a concern for me in terms of Elizabeth Gilbert's book. Why are relationships breaking up as a result of people reading and begining to be drawn in to her philosophy of life?
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