let me just fine-tune what I said there...
for one's OWN recovery, people really need to restore very strong personal boundaries. That is what I meant about being blunt, blunt with yourself.
Also, if some Guru is trying to mess with your head, then being powerful and blunt ends it. They don't even bother with you.
Once a person has powerful boundaries, even one LOOK from a person, and the cult recruiter won't even bother with you. You are too much work. They look for easy targets.
They LOOK for people often who have personal dependency issues, etc. They look for "suckers" and "fresh meat" and "babies", that is what they call them.
They TEST your boundary with some violation, and if there is no response, they move in.
but reaching out and trying to "help" someone already in a cult, is a completely different thing.
That's something Steve Hassan would know about, he's the expert. [See disclaimer regarding Steve Hassan below]
but of course, one should never criticize a family member like that, they will just turn off.
But all I can say, is for a person to help themselves, they have to toughen up! There are literally hundreds of versions of these cults out there today, and so many people seem to be way "too nice".
They get taken advantage of.
Also, for example, if some Scientologist street recruiter comes up to you, to try and dupe you with some fake-stress-test, what's wrong with telling them to fuck off? Sure, its rude. But its 100x MORE rude for them to cruise the streets looking for victims!! Scientology street recruiters TARGET people who are naive, impressionable, and in pain. They test people right on the spot, and are trained to do so. If a person tells them to GET LOST, they are trained to ignore those people.
Also, giving negative feedback to cult recruiters is a civic duty. If most people told cult recruiters to get stuffed, no one would do it.
For example, the Byron Katie salespeople target people who are "too nice" and also desperate and in pain. And then they lie to them, over and over again. Some of these folks "act nice" but are wolves in sheeps clothing. They are blatant liars, and very manipulative, and they hurt people to try to make some money.
But hey, eveyone has their own personality and their own way of coping.
As far as cult leaders, and seniors cult promoters, those people are tough, and ruthless. They are predators. They are smart, they are cunning. I say REBUKETH the evil-doers. It works.
But helping a family member is a completely different thing.
Personally, I don't play any games with people, and just tell the truth.
Someone tries to pitch SGI, I tell them why its a cult.
Some young male Mormon recruiters were rude the other month, as I ignored them, and they made some sarcastic comment like "nice day to you too". I turned around, walked up to them, and asked them why they said that? as in...did I ASK you to try to recruit me on the street? Then I tell them that Joseph Smith was a con-artist, and he made up those fake-gold plates, and chewed them out for about 5 minutes, etc. Maybe they will think twice next time. (again, not for everyone!!).
so anyway, its not for everyone, and each person needs to find their own way.
I just wanted to say, that powerful ASSERTIVENESS, works wonders.
Not angry aggressiveness, not passivity, by very powerful assertiveness. blunt reality.
Like...hypothetical example here....
...how can so-called "spiritual" people take overseas business cash income and donations, and put $10,000 cash in their suitcase to evade taxes, and then cross an international border? Since that was business income, and they are giving it back to the Guru in the USA, that would appear to be highly illegal. As in, don't people go to freaking jail for being a money "mule"? (mule is a good term in many ways...they do all the work, and get no benefits).
If they don't think its illegal, then they should phone up the IRS RIGHT NOW, give them their name, and tell them how many times they did it, and who gave them the 10K to move.
But no...they are "spiritual" people. It really is almost beyond all reality.
anyway, just wanted to put that out there.
Assertiveness is great, Guru's are terrified of it. If people were assertive, Gurus would have to get a goddamn job, at get off their lazy Guru asses!!!
But of course, no point being harsh to friends in a cult, etc.
Its about healthy self-boundaries.
The exact thing that Byron Katie works so hard to destroy. Believe me, I've listened to all her material, etc. She is very powerful,and very cunning. You have to be extremely mentally tough to fight back, otherwise...a person can get taken in for years, for decades.
but with powerful assertiveness, they are powerless.Disclaimer regarding Steve Hassan
The Ross Institute of New Jersey/May 2013
The inclusion of news articles within the Ross Institute of New Jersey (RI) archives, which mention and/or quote Steven Hassan, in no way suggests that RI recommends Mr. Hassan or recognizes him in any way.
News articles that mention Steve Hassan have been archived for historical purposes only due to the information they contain about controversial groups, movements and/or leaders.
RI does not recommend Steven Hassan.
RI has received serious complaints about Steve Hassan concerning his fees. Mr. Hassan does not publicly disclose his fee schedule, but according to complaints Steve Hassan has charged fees varying from $250.00 per hour or $2,500.00 per day to $500.00 per hour or $5,000.00 per day. This does not include Mr. Hassan's expenses, which according to complaints can be quite substantial.
Steven Hassan has charged families tens of thousands of dollars and provided questionable results. One recent complaint cited total fees of almost $50,000.00. But this very expensive intervention effort ended in failure.
Dr. Cathleen Mann, who holds a doctorate in psychology and has been a licensed counselor in the state of Colorado since 1994 points out, "Nowhere does Hassan provide a base rate and/or any type or accepted statistical method defining his results..."
Steve Hassan has at times suggested to potential clients that they purchase a preliminary report based upon what he calls his "BITE" model. These "BITE reports" can potentially cost thousands of dollars.
Steve Hassan runs a for-profit corporation called "Freedom of Mind." Mr. Hassan is listed as the corporate agent for that business as well as its president and treasurer.
RI does not recommend "Freedom of Mind" as a resource.
RI also does not list or recommend Steve Hassan's books.
To better understand why Mr. Hassan's books are not recommended by RI read this detailed review of his most recently self-published book titled "Freedom of Mind."
Steve Hassan's cult intervention methodology has historically raised concerns since its inception. The book "Recovery from Cults" (W.W. Norton & Co. pp. 174-175) edited by Dr. Michael Langone states the following:
"Calling his approach 'strategic intervention [sic] therapy,' Hassan (1988) stresses that, although he too tries to communicate a body of information to cultists and to help them think independently, he also does formal counseling. As with many humanistic counseling approaches, Hassan’s runs the risk of imposing clarity, however subtly, on the framework’s foundational ambiguity and thereby manipulating the client."
RI has also learned that Mr. Hassan has had dual-relationships with his counseling clients. That is, clients seeing Mr. Hassan for counseling may also do professional cult intervention work with him.
Professionals in the field of cultic studies have also expressed concerns regarding Steven Hassan's use of hypnosis and Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP).
Based upon complaints and the concerns expressed about Mr. Hassan RI does not recommend Steve Hassan for counseling, intervention work or any other form of professional consultation.
i'm not sure how to express this properly; but on the issue of flowery language versus bluntness: particularly in groups where secrecy ( where do those 10 000 dollar donations go?) is part of the picture , honesty is crucial.
But sometimes gentleness is also helpful in cult recovery.
To be blunt here; in some groups particularly those that practice versions of the "Hot Seat" type stuff, then if your communication with followers consists of rants explaining how narcissistic etc they are, then you may not actually sound that different than their group leader who has probably insulted them in much the same way.
Or they may have had to watch while others were ripped into psychlogical shreds.
I think Steve Hassan often also promotes a gentle approach;I think (though I may have remembered it wrong) that he talks about a time when, while working for the moonies, an outsider fed him and asked him about his family.In one of his lectures I believe he suggested that if he met a moonie he would be sympathetic, ask them when they last spoke to their family,and offer to pay for a phone call so they could speak to their family again, pointing out how much their family must be missing the cult member.
Anger is a wonderful protective mechanism,helping people to rebuild boundaries, and an important part of the recovery process for many people.
It is also useful to be aware that there are many different approaches to helping people.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2013 08:49PM by rrmoderator.