Dialogue works equally well, if not better for manipulation, but the technique employed is certainly different. And of course, the feedback is an essential manipulation tool.

Someone who tried to break big in the Self Help industry found she could not
cope with the stress.

Her mistake was: she didn't have the nerve to acquire an entourage of helpers.

Read here

[forum.culteducation.com]

and you will get the inside scoop on the real "Secret" behind Tolle, Byron Katie, Gangaji, Mooji and -- yes. Deepak Chopra.

He worries about looking fat when he makes public appearances.

BK asks, rhetorically, where would we be without our stories.

Some research suggests that getting into our stories by writing them may enhance our capacity to heal.

The Puzzling Way That Writing About Pain Makes You Heal Faster

[www.bbc.com]

(Small excerpt)

Quote

What does the act of committing words to paper do? Initially it was assumed this simply happened through catharsis, that people felt better because they’d let out their pent-up feelings. But then Pennebaker began looking in detail at the language people used in their writing.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

He found that the types of words people used changed over the course of the four sessions. Those whose wounds healed the fastest began by using the word “I” a lot, but in later sessions moved on to saying “he” or “she” more often, suggesting they were looking at the event from other perspectives. They also used words like “because”, implying they were making sense of the events and putting them into a narrative. So Pennebaker believes that the simple act of labelling your feelings and putting them into a story is somehow affecting the immune system.
But there is a curious finding which suggests something else might be going on. Simply imagining a traumatic event and writing a story about it also makes wounds heal faster, so perhaps it’s less to do with resolving past issues and more to do with finding a way of regulating your own emotions that makes a difference.

Quote

But now new research from New Zealand suggests it’s not essential to do the writing before you are wounded. It can work just as well if you do the writing afterwards. This opens up the possibility of using expressive writing not just when surgery is planned, but for real-life injuries which of course we can’t predict. Kavita Vedhara from the University of Nottingham and her team in New Zealand took 120 healthy volunteers, and made them write about either a distressing event or how they spent the previous day. They did this either before or after a punch biopsy on their upper arm. The people from the expressive writing group were six times more likely to have a wound that had healed within 10 days than the people in the control group.

We’d need to have more studies conducted with real life patients, but maybe one day when we’ve had an operation, we might be told to go home with instructions on expressive writing. As Kavita Vedhara told me in the BBC’s Health Check, the effect is “short-lived, but powerful”.

The researchers do not say so, but it is possible that people who
have difficulty writing might get similar benefits from expressing
their stories via visual arts and music.

[www.google.com]

If Eckhart Tolle's material actually freed us from ego, we'd *lose* interest
in "playing the game" and not want to be pick up artists.

Quote

bout 9,950 results (0.79 seconds)
Search Results

Eckhart Tolle | Pick Up Artist and PUA Lingo
www.pualingo.com/eckhart-tolle/
Aug 3, 2014 - Affiliation: Eckhart Teachings Website: Eckhart Tolle Bio Spiritual leader and mentor Eckhart Tolle's book, The Power Of Now became popular ...

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Tyler Durden PUA – Owen Cook is his real name | Seduction Blog ...
seductionism.com/blog/01/17/tyler-durden-pua-owen-cook-is-his-real-name/
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2017 05:32AM by corboy.

A BBC News article -- Charisma can be learned by mastering a specific set of skills.

The Art and Science of Charisma

[www.bbc.com]

Quote

Charm involves making eye contact with individuals and flashing them a smile, getting people to talk about themselves, asking personal questions and making empathic statements, whereas charismatic leaders don’t necessarily have to interact directly with the people they influence at all – they can do it from afar. So, while charmers are popular, charismatic people don’t have to be.

“You can be charismatic without being likeable,” says Olivia Fox Cabane, an executive coach and author of The Charisma Myth. She uses Steve Jobs as an example, someone who was deeply disliked by some of his employees but still considered to be incredibly charismatic.

"..do it from afar".

Corboy:

That, friends, is how a guru can still pull people in using Skype messages and can increase the number of workshops given by substituting Skype
presentations for being present in person.

Excerpt

Quote

or those wanting to be more charismatic, there is evidence that it is not such a magical, or imperceptible quality as it might first seem.
Most of it stems from the way we use words and how points are conveyed. For example, in one set of studies

[homepages.se.edu]

Antonakis trained middle managers at a German company and MBA students to be perceived as more charismatic by using what he calls charismatic leadership tactics.

Thatcher's speech was packed with metaphors, rhetorical questions, stories, contrasts, lists, and references to ambitious goals

These are made up of nine core verbal tactics including

*metaphors

*stories and anecdotes

*contrasts

*lists and

*rhetorical questions

Speakers should demonstrate moral conviction, share the sentiments of the audience they are targeting, set high expectations for themselves, and communicate confidence.

Managers trained to use these tactics were rated as more competent, more trusted and able to influence others. MBA students who analysed recordings of themselves giving speeches, with these tactics in mind, ultimately gave new speeches that were rated as more charismatic.

Quote

Authority charisma is useful when the house is on fire and you need to get everyone out,” says Fox Cabane. “While you don’t care much about how much people like you, you do care about being obeyed.”

She says the best way to improve authority charisma is to improve your self-confidence. She often sends clients to martial arts classes and emphasises the benefits of taking up physical space, pointing to Amy Cuddy’s research on power poses.

[www.ted.com]

“Standing as if you are a big gorilla intimating a rival off the territory really does work,” she says.

*metaphors Katie uses metaphors, uses them powerfully. Remember the cockroach

*stories and anecdotes BK uses stories constantly and in a way most charismatic leaders don't do.

Unlike 'normal' charismatic person story telling, the trance induction misuse of story telling entails use of stories that are 'strange'. Stories that are packed with logical inconsistencies, grammatical errors and that are weirdly complex.

One CEI member, The Anticult put it this way:

Quote

whenever you hear someone like Katie constantly telling little weird "Stories", that is generally this brand of hypnotic symbolic persuasion. For those who have been exposed to the technical literature, it just LEAPS out instantly. Its totally blatant.

No different than for someone who knows a little about music, Mozart and Bach can be distinguished in a few seconds, but for a non-musical person...all classical music sounds the same...

the way Katie contructs those sentences shown above, betrays exactly what she is doing. Even though some of the Stories are strange and ambiguous, the sentence construction of double-binds, false-choices, embedded commands, and leading questions is hard evidence. That is being done very technically by the book, and at a very high level of skill, by Byron Katie.

and as noticed, Katie is constantly telling sad-sack Stories about her various illnesses, they are listed above.

Again, this is done as it impacts on numerous levels, one of them being it builds emotional sympathy and Rapport with her female and loving followers

The cockroach crawling over her is one story.

The BK washing machine story - analysed by The Anticult is another.

[forum.culteducation.com]

(It is actually a dense trance inducing cluster of stories - the technique is called nested loops)


*contrasts

*lists (BK's Four questions which are both a list and a set of rhetorical questions. A set of questions that has you answering yes, yes, yes, yes, yes
is what hypnosis experts call a Yes Set.

[www.google.com]

*rhetorical questions ("Where would you be without your story?"


Some more analyses by The Anticult

[forum.culteducation.com]

A parting insight from The Anticult

Quote

So this type of Laundry Story is classic. It works on the conscious level, it works as a Distraction, it works beautifully on the Unconscious level when you hear her vocal delivery,and the way she ends it, and it also possibly works on a meta-level, as a type of arrogant in-joke.

She also uses certain patterns like saying "I'm baffled by technology". Then her next sentence tells you to go to her website and go "Ctrl-Alt-Delete" your SELF!. (Reboot the Self).
Its a terrific diversion to put people at ease, and make them feel more comfortable.

So these types of Stories sound absurd and crazy to the conscious mind, which is their INTENT, but to the Unconscious they make perfect sense. Its a type of Dream-Language, of symbols and processes.
So it really is diabolical to use it like this, as it appears virtually all people don't have any exposure to that area of hypnotherapy. She trolls the human population, looking for the FEW PERCENT of people out there who are HIGHLY SUGGESTIBLE to her brand of suggestions and hypnosis.
When seen as a hypnotic Sorcerer, which is what she is, Byron Katie is completely logical and pragmatic. Every "story" she tells, is a type of waking Induction, some are just Distraction, some are Suggestion, etc.

Its not hard to see how that kind of Power could go to a person's head very easily. Even normal healthy therapists experience counter-Transference, and can start to believe they are superhuman.
Never mind those who are pathological to begin with, the Power from this type of multi-modal Persuasion would absolutely go to their heads beyond what a regular person could even imagine.

Someone named Teal Swan has her own following and has garnered
many harm reports.

Teal Swan recommended Byron Katie

[web.archive.org]

Recent article here:

[www.ozy.com]

Discussion of Teal Swan here:

[forum.culteducation.com]

Analysis of a Byron Katie Dialogue

[matthewremski.com]

Small excerpt

Quote

Because Katie is not doing any trained CBT here (which presents itself as a technique, not a pathway to mystical truth brokered by an awakened being), the impact of the scene as a scene must be considered.

Note the benevolent aggression of Katie’s body language. She leans forward, makes intrusive eye contact, smiles in an alpha way that demands a defensive smile – easily confused with relaxation – in response.

Consider the performance pressure on the subject, on a dais in a room filled with a hundred people or more, with whom she must socialize on breaks, to whom she might be looking for relief from social isolation, who might constitute for her the idealized friend group for which she’s longed for years. Imagine the stakes involved in her talking back, refusing the advice, reasserting her original thought, wresting back her agency from Katie.

Note signs of Katie’s somatic control: talking to the subject but really to the crowd, nodding as though she’s heard it all before and nothing could possibly surprise her (grandiosity), the implicit agreement that she can interrupt anyone at any time (because she’s not there to listen but to tell). Even the magical appearance of the subject’s words on the iPad in front of her (keyed in by an invisible assistant?) gives the impression of wizardry in maternal garb.

The basic psychopolitics of the scene are conservative:

Someone is in charge,
you are wrong to worry,
everything is as it should be (and as it was when you were a child), and,
if you agree you will be socially rewarded.

The overt messaging here is that you are happiest when you surrender to rather than resist conditions. Aggression and violation are not as real as your fear of them.

Going hungry on a juice regimen that is part of the Byron Katie Mental Cleanse

From Corboy's perspective, the author and her friend, both intelligent women, are soon so food obsessed that critical thinking is subverted.

[www.nbcnews.com]

Quote

So how did we wind up on a foodless meditative retreat?

A few weeks ago, Anneliese announced that she was going to L.A. for the conference; she was a big Byron Katie fan. I knew nothing about Katie, but promptly invited myself along. Why not?

Fasting - an inexpensive way to regulate people

Quote

I'm hungry. Bring on the juice," I jot a while later. When we talked by phone a few days earlier we agreed to do the juice fast for as long as we could. The event Web site explained that participants would be given a "12 oz. goblet of complimentary juice (organic whenever possible)" three times a day, as well as an endless supply of hot herbal tea and "pure spring water." I initially packed a bottle of merlot and a jumbo bag of pretzels in my carry-on bag, but then decided that this approach was less than admirable. I was already regretting that decision.

"Me, too! When do we get the goblet?" scribbles Anneliese. "Do you think there will there be a stampede?"

When Katie breaks for "lunch" at 1 p.m., we follow the masses to a nearby room where tuxedo-clad waiters pour bright magenta and grass-green mystery liquids into tall glasses. We ponder aloud which one we should choose before realizing that most of the people in front of us are walking away clutching a glass in each hand. Score! We both snag a pink and a green.

Back in our room, we slowly suck down the liquid between bouts of nonstop chatter. I snap photos as we pose artfully with the juice, which is surprisingly palatable. Time flies, and soon we're back in the conference room, listening to Katie query a woman who believes that if she were thin, she'd be "good enough."

Scolding

Quote

"Excuse me, that isn't coffee in your Starbucks cup, is it?" I feel a hand on my shoulder and turn to see a spritely gray-haired woman wearing a staff badge hovering behind me.

"Actually, it is," I mutter, swallowing the words with a swig of fresh, foamy latte.

"You'll understand if I ask you to remove it from the room, won't you? Some of the people here who are fasting find the smell disturbing."

"Oh, of course," I stammer, though I'm sure I'm not the only culprit.

I'm attending a conference where most of the 300-plus participants are on a juice fast, but it's hard to believe that the dozens of attendees I've seen carrying the familiar white cups haven't experienced a weak moment like mine. The only beverages permitted here are juice, water and tea.

My best friend, sitting beside me, suppresses a giggle as she hands over her cup. I shuffle, head down, out of the conference room. I'd known that finding inner peace was not going to be easy. But did it have to happen without caffeine?

The Hell With It

Quote

A juicy breakthrough
In our room, we slowly drink the broth and discuss the day's events. A few minutes after I've drained every last drop, I make a crucial mistake: I spot the room service menu across the room and devour it as though it's a porn mag starring Brad Pitt circa his “Thelma and Louise” days. Anneliese can't resist, either. The riveting descriptions of each item — the salt-encrusted baked potato, the farmers market pizza loaded with tomatoes and mushrooms and onions, even a simple side salad — quicken my pulse. Our resolve dissolves, and it's only day one. Pizza — and our mutual thwarting of the rules — has never tasted so good.

Eventually, Anneliese and I settle into a nice rhythm of juicing for breakfast and lunch, and then ordering room service for dinner. On our final day, after being called out on our coffee habit, we decide to play hooky. Manhattan Beach beckons.

[www.new-synapse.com]

Quote

To see if there are any cult characteristics, I used a cult checklist and found 6 of 15 that could be applicable, so it is not technically “a cult” but appears to have some of the characteristics of a cult, I would say maybe 10% cult during small events and possibly up to 35% cult during the large events. I chose these as possibly applicable:

The group displays unquestioning commitment to its leader. (-) This seems to be true for a percentage of people in the group, probably like 80% I would guess (?). When one attends an event usually there is an overall thought-form of acceptance and even adulation or reverence for The Work.

Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged. (-) There are some comments online to the effect that this has happened at the longer $5000 workshops, when people question The Work itself it doesn’t really go over that well. One example: “Someone I know who was recently at the “Certification” workshop told me that one of the workshop participants did a “worksheet”, that’s one of tools of The Work, on Katie asking her to stop talking about all the money that the TurnAround Houses will be making.” ( link to article [guruphiliac.blogspot.com])

Mind-altering practices (-) This doesn’t happen at the smaller events and talks, but 3 days of fasting done at the longer workshops is definitely mind altering and potentially harmful. It can produce extreme physical weakness, emotional melt-downs, and changes in thinking processes, and is definitely not healthy for everyone. Also an exhausting schedule can create mind alterations.

The leader is not accountable to any authorities (-) Byron Katie is the last stop.

The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary (-) Not as bad as other groups but this applies to the extreme aspects of the longer workshops – fasting, extreme schedule, and probably others I do not know about.

Quoted from a discussion over at Guruphiliac back in 2011. Perhaps things are done differently now.

[www.tapatalk.com]

Quote

southdakotaboy
Posts 39
novice
March 31st, 2011, 11:06 am #164
Understanding the context is in fact the key to understanding the school. That is why its so important to imbed the law of secrecy into the students. If they start comparing notes and mapping out the sequence of each exercise then they will see the patterns and understand how they were manipulated. The fog will lift and the truth will be known. BK's power imbalance will disappear. This is what is happening on CNN Live, the trial of James Ray.
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southdakotaboy
Posts 39
novice
March 31st, 2011, 2:14 pm #165
An example of orchestrating emotions at the Vision Quest came from one of James Ray's employees. As a witness she explained how, after a long period of enforced silence, enforced fasting and isolation, on queue when breakfast and the lifting of the silence was announced by James, the music was turned up and a celebration was started.

How did this make the students feel towards James? How did this make the students feel about the strangers standing next to them. All artificially induced.

Was this a reflection of what BK did every night when the singing and dancing was the final exercise?

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southdakotaboy
Posts 39
novice
April 1st, 2011, 6:40 pm #166

Similarities between James Ray and Byron Katie.

Both were voted the most Narcissistic Guru of 2010. male / female
Both can cure all your problems.
Both have strict no-refunds policy.
Both have you sign no liability contracts that disclaim all that they promised you.
Both have a strict rule of secrecy.
Both love bomb when you arrive and when you leave. Gift bags, group pictures, etc...
Both separate you from loved ones and friends.
Both eliminate phone use and computers.
Both have rules of silence.
Both staff with free labor.
Both Put every one on a low protein, vegetarian diet.
Both surprise with the next exercise.
Both make long fasting a key exercise. Food depravation.
Both commonly have students vomiting.
Both use public confessions over a microphone.
Both take away IDs and money, then send people out onto the streets begging for food.
Both preach about "truth".
Both use mystical stories. Walking trance.
Both used music to set the moods.
Both use the long hours tactic and then assign home work. Sleep depravation.
Both use sequential exercises to maximize effects.
Both urged every one to get what they came for.
Both traumatized and then love bombed. pressure / release
Both had every one make public commitments to the group.

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southdakotaboy
Posts 39
novice
April 1st, 2011, 10:23 pm #167
Not to forget:

Both had Oprah promote their Magical Thinking.
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southdakotaboy
Posts 39
novice
April 4th, 2011, 12:39 pm #168
Byron Katie and James Arthur Ray have the same leadership structure.

Cult Leadership Structure

There is no cult without a powerful, charismatic leader. A charismatic leader has the uncanny ability to get people to follow him unquestioningly. The phrase "cult of personality" refers to this type of group dynamic. Cult members are devoted to the leader, not to the leader's ideas. The leader has complete control over his followers--there is no questioning of his decisions, and he is accountable to no one within the group.

You can see the trouble this causes the members by watching the trial of James Ray on CNN live. Why would anyone promote Byron Katie to our children? O thats right, because Byron Katie told them to. She wants to open a new niche in the new age market. Get the children and the mom will come along. Once you have her in the room you separate her from the child and presto change o. Mystic magic will take place and a revenue stream will materialize for BK.
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While reviewing Walter1963's work on NLP, this caught my eye. He wrote:

"It happened to me when I took a 3 day NLP seminar in 1995 and at the end of the 3 day seminar I found myself signing up for their 21 day $2500.00 "NLP practitioner certification program", ironically enough it was right next door to a EST seminar. And during the 21 day course, I was regularly bombarded by hypnotic suggestions from the 'trainers' and 'guardian angels'(basically fools who paid to take the seminar again) to sign up for the $5000.00 "Master Practitioner" program. They were pushing the next course so hard via hypnotic language that I was physically getting sick towards the end and the last week of it I was barely there.

I am thinking that the juxtaposition of the NLP seminar, next to the EST seminar was NOT, ironic.

I remained mystified as to why coaching organizations, or ONE in particular is so enamored with this "junk science", and can only conclude that they are using a vintage, tried and true, persuasion formula.


See:

[search.yahoo.com]

///

These listings go on for pages.

bakkagirl

After listening to the On Belief podcast on LGATs today I took a stroll through google search to see how things have been shaking out lately for Byron Katie and The Work.

A few critical pieces have been able to stand online for several years without vanishing into the ether as many early blogposts concerned with Byron Katie's programs and history did. That gave me hope that perhaps less people would be unsuspectingly negatively impacted by The Work and it's facilitators (who are not by nature of certification trained mental health professionals, although some mental health professionals choose also to get certified).

Then I saw that recently an interview with Byron Katie was included on The Trauma Therapist podcast by Guy Macpherson PhD (April 15, 2019) and sponsored by the Complex PTSD foundation and the professional's continuing education provider PESI. I won't listen to the interview, but maybe you can. The write-up summary gives the impression that concerns will not be addressed,

"I’m thrilled to have Bryon Katie on the podcast!
If you’ve seen her either on video or in-person, then you know why I’m excited. There’s something about her presence, her humor, and her insightfulness that cuts through the BS and gets to the core of the human experience--the struggle, the frustration, and the suffering. That’s exactly why I invited her on the podcast." [Macpherson]

There is currently not a "Criticism" section on Byron Katie's Wikipedia entry, although the Talk page shows that the community was delving into how to manage criticism and edits as late as 2017 [en.wikipedia.org]

There seems to be a successful move to increase participation of children in The Work through teachers, classrooms, and schools. For example from this 2014 post after designing a short The Work in Education Summer Camp program: [thework.com]

"Linda and I are privileged to get to do this work. We are planning a weekend workshop this fall. Also, I’m designing much of the Camp into my first unit of the year (on identity), with all my incoming classes. We’ll end the unit with a video project, where students will take a thought through The Work and make a video. In fact, it looks like the entire ninth grade (over 400 students) will be making videos. (Exciting!!) We made The Work videos last year in my classes for the first time, and some of the students’ videos were incredible! Check out this girl’s video questioning the thought “I’ll never adjust to this change”: [removed link]

I’m working to integrate The Work into both curriculum and classroom management structures in authentic, creative ways that honestly reach teenagers and connect with best practices in education [removed author contact info. ... ]I would love to hear from you and share ideas. We are also researching the effectiveness of the Camp and The Work integrated into the classroom through scales (one we developed and some that are independently validated) and assessments, so if you have interest in research we’d love to connect."

The direct link to the program is no longer active. I'm definitely curious about the measurement of effectiveness, but imagine the results will validate the process, especially short-term, with the expectation to be successful and pleasing.

As Byron Katie and The Work become aligned with more professionals (especially PhD level) in education and psychology, it seems the influence and number of participants will grow rapidly. Several years ago I wrote a letter to the American Psychological Association (APA) asking how it was possible that licensed mental health providers were reporting "treating" people with mental health diagnoses by facilitating The Work in therapy since it was at that time not listed as a treatment method by the APA. I have never received a response.

With more criticism finally available online, I'm surprised at these higher level associations. What kind of person who explicitly intends on having a global impact on mental health is almost always only represented in the media by the stories they tell of themselves?

It's buried back in this thread, but when I think about mental health treatments and The Work volunteer-facilitator (not certified) Rochelle Laudenslager, who murdered her former lover, I eerily hear Byron Katie's quote from the article suggesting Laudenslager didn't work hard enough on The Work:

"This woman is guilty of believing her thoughts, and another woman is dead," [Byron Katie] says of Laudenslager.

Laudenslager's actions don't jive with the lasting inner peace that Mitchell says her process brings to those who practice its "inquiry" every time a disturbing thought surfaces.

Mitchell says The Work can heal mental illness. Those who see the truth can never return to their former lives of anger or despair, she insists.

So what went wrong with Laudenslager?

"I would say she got off to a good start and it just wasn't enough," Mitchell says. "It takes work. I don't call it 'The Work' for nothing."

[culteducation.com]

EDITED: Removed contact and youTube links from embedded quote



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2019 02:47AM by luckychrm.