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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: May 22, 2012 02:07AM

?? Studies of Inquiry Based Stress Reduction" - another term for 'The Work'

[forum.culteducation.com]

[forum.culteducation.com]

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Rav ()
Date: May 29, 2012 10:58PM

Hi iam Rav from India I have not read the entire thread yet from past 4 days I have been reading iam on page number 89 now :) .
I just thought I must post a biggggggggg thanx to Rick Ross , anti cult, corboy, helpme2 time, sOlea13 and all others for their contributions on this thread .
So far whatever I read I learned so much maybe more then whatever self help books I have read so far in my life . This forum is actually a big self help forum in true sense I feel extremely lucky and fortunate to find this forum.

Here in India BK all this likes are not famous yet but ET books are pretty famous and I see many people reading at airports and buses I read that book and it was extremely boring and stopped reading it halfway.
and all this seminars and all happen very rare and the very elite get into all that . In India the major cults are actually the religious cults , this baba this maharaj, art of living , Osho and many others who exploit people like crazy on name of god and enlightenment .
I had a healthy normal childhood and now iam quite young now and I agree I was hooked in tony Robbins , law of attraction , and all those kind of things via books only . I never got myself attached with the enlightment and meditation kind of stuff because that just dint simply interested me ever .
After reading about tony Robbins here and law of attraction here on this forums I understood how big ripoff is that .

I also got the book Infulence and iam reading it and I have writeen down the names of books suggested by anti cult , and corboy and will buy soon .
After reading the entire thread I will write here how Indian baba and all are ripping people off .i just wanted to say a big thanx to everyone here for the time and contribution you guys have given I just don't have words to express that .
Rather then buying that artificial face lifted BT books and CDs people will actually get enlightened by reading this forum alone .thanx a million once again .

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: luckychrm ()
Date: June 05, 2012 11:40AM

I'm not sure what the copyright laws are for pasting text from an online forum with attribution, so moderators, please remove/edit this post if I have violated the user agreement. I read the user agreement in full and did not find copying and pasting addressed. The following are two blog articles posted in May, 2012 regarding an in-person attendance at a The Work seminar facilitated by Byron Katie written by the author mollycules. The author's description of the seminar experience and her own use of The Work in personal life seems to me a validation of the milder concerns outlined in this thread, almost as if this thread were a textbook describing how vulnerable people are drawn in by The Work and the blog author is a case study.

If it is not too cumbersome, I'll insert a few notes into the article [emphasis mine].

[mollycules.com]
The Work & The Work: Part 2
As I sit here on this park bench, I noticed a group of men on a lunch break who I immediately judged to be a threat. I identified being unsafe because I’m attractive, by myself, and accidentally made eye contact. I start to question whether or not I should even be sitting within their proximity.

Immediately after this sequence of uncomfortable thoughts, I asked myself, “Is it true?” A slow “ummmm” arises from within.

“Can you know that thought to be absolutely true?” I ask myself. ”No, I can’t know this to be absolutely true.” I reply to myself.

“How does this thought make you feel?” I ask myself. “Paranoid. I want to leave. I don’t feel safe.”

“Who would you be without this thought?” I ask myself. “I would be present, relaxed, and open to whatever came my way. I would enjoy the beauty of this park more fully.”

The anxiety lifted. The park seemed more open, more vibrant…more beautiful
[Less than a year ago I was the subject of a sexual assault in public after following a very similar line of "reasoning." Did I not turn my thoughts around properly?].

Those of you who are familiar with the work of Byron Katie can already spot exactly what I am doing. This self-inquiry is called “the Work,” a process that alleviates the suffering caused by believing our thoughts. It is referred to as the “four questions.”

This past Saturday, I attended a Byron Katie workshop in Santa Barbara. Each attendee filled out a “Judge Your Neighbor” worksheet. The worksheet guided us through a process where we choose to answer questions about a recurring stressful situation involving another person and how we would like to see them to change. I knew exactly what I was going to bring to the table before I even arrived.

I suffer from what I call a “sleep trigger”. If I have already fallen asleep and my boyfriend, who often works later hours than I do, wakes me up, I am prone to an automatic nervous system response that results in what feels like uncontrollable anger, fear, and a whole lot of nasty projections on an innocent man.

I blame being sexually abused by my biological father from the time of early childhood into my teens as the root cause of this disorienting and over-the-top response. As I scribbled down my answers to the “Judge Your Neighbor” worksheet while occasionally taking breaks to look at Byron Katie in awe, I had a feeling I was going to find what I was looking for.

The room was jam packed, well over what a fire marshall would allow, and I sat there nervously debating whether or not to raise my hand to share my responses. When Katie first inquired if anyone from the audience wanted to share their responses, I remained frozen.

Each volunteer had the opportunity to enter Katie’s “parlor” on stage to do the work. By witnessing someone else going through the process of inquiry, I felt like I was going through it as them. Their “AHA!” moments became mine. Their tears streamed down my cheeks. Katie’s laughter was my laughter.

The second time she asked for a volunteer, I half-heartedly raised my hand and wasn’t chosen. Again, I moved through the process of inquiry with great empathy. When the person on stage woke up to reality, I woke up! Their confidence became mine!

With only twenty minutes left of the workshop, I was surprised to hear Katie ask for a third volunteer. Without hesitation, my arm shot up and suddenly I found myself in a dream-like state, signing release forms on a stage [definitely not the time or frame of mind to be evaluating and committing to a legal document] across from a reflection of pure joy.

To be continued…

The work of Byron Katie, including the free worksheet and four questions, can be found at www.thework.com

[mollycules.com]
There I was, face to face with Byron Katie*.
*The dialogue of Katie and I is told first hand from memory.

“It’s an honor to meet you,” I said.

“And you as well because I’m really meeting myself. I’m just not as cute, but that’s my mind,” Katie said. The audience roared with laughter.

I shifted in my seat, aware of every thought. My fear diminished significantly as I met her glowing and clear eyes, beaming with presence and compassion, but that’s my projection. Really – she is a reflection of the goodness that is equally alive in each and everyone of us.

“Read your first answer sweetheart.” Katie was referring to the “Judge Your Neighbor” worksheet.

“I am angry with my boyfriend because he woke me up from my sleep and isn’t considering the trigger that I have around being woken up,” I said. Each word suddenly sounded foreign to my ears.

“Is that true?” Katie asked.

“Uhhhhh…no,” I replied with a confused tone.

“Can you absolutely know that your boyfriend woke you up?” Katie asked.

“No, I can’t. Something else could have woke me up…like a neighbor or an animal,” I said, still feeling a little confused.

“How does that thought make you feel?”

“I feel like I don’t have control, I’m angry, and I can’t relax or to back to sleep,” I answered.

“Who would you be without that thought?”

“I would be able to be woken up and easily go back to sleep. I would be more loving to my boyfriend.”

“Now turn it around.”

“I am angry with myself for waking me up,” I replied.

“That’s right honey, you are waking yourself up today,” Katie said.

Well I feel it’s complicated because of the automatic nervous system response that I have because of past child abuse,” I said while looking down at the stage. It wasn’t so simple as just being woken up from my sleep – it was all the shit that comes up for me afterwards. Sometimes I turn into a disoriented raging hell storm and can’t calm down for a couple hours [Are these symptoms of a diagnosable psychiatric disorder?].

Katie turned towards the audience and interjected stories about hurting oneself and projecting the pain of old stories of rape, incest, and violence onto others. [Wait a second, isn't The Work just supposed to be about the Four Questions and The Turn-arounds? Aren't participants and facilitators supposed to be giving up stories, etc.?] While this wasn’t new news to me, the way Katie eloquently articulated metaphors helped shed light on my process of self inquiry in a public space. Even after ten years of therapy, old survival mechanisms were lurking below the surface of my being. They could no longer hide as I brought my monster on stage in front of at least 200 people.

“You have unfinished business sweetheart. The Nine-Day School for the Work would really help you resolve that unfinished business, and I would like to help you make that happen,” [Nice brazen upsell to someone in an extremely vulnerable, self-described trance-like state!] Katie said. I didn’t immediately register that Katie was offering me a scholarship.

As we continued with limited time, Katie mindfully held a present space as we went through each of the questions on my worksheet. Stage managers motioned “10 minutes” and then “5 minutes,” but Katie didn’t rush.

“Read your answer to question number two,” Katie said.

“I want my boyfriend to go to bed at the same time as me.” I laughed and the audience let out another roar of laughter. It seemed so ridiculous that by thinking if I control my beloved’s behavior, somehow I would be better off.

“I bet there are plenty of times he has woken you up and it hasn’t bothered you,” Katie said.

“Absolutely.”

When we got to answering question six, my monster was laughing too, “I don’t ever want to be triggered in my sleep again.”

“Turn it around,” Katie said.

“I am willing to be triggered in my sleep again.” I looked up at her with giddy delight.

“That’s right sweetheart, because that’s how your going to wake up. Now read the next turnaround.”

I am looking forward to being woken up in my sleep again.” As I looked back up to her, I knew deeply that this was my truth.

As we embraced on stage, I felt like I had a new friend looking out for me – and that friend was really me.

As of yesterday, I have confirmed that I am officially a recipient of a scholarship for the Nine-Day School for the Work this fall. [Is it a true scholarship? What are the chances that it is a bait and switch financial aid program as noted here: [forums.craigslist.org]. The chances seem good if 2012 is anything like 2006, where Rick Ross poster The Anticult estimated that The Work Foundation dispersed 7 full scholarships for The School For The Work for the entire year:[forum.culteducation.com] But then, given that mollycules is Molly Hahn, published children's author and illustrator [www.amazon.com], perhaps there is a collaboration in store for these two ladies] I am simultaneously enthralled and apprehensive, but my gut is telling me to keep leaning into the self inquiry as each fearful thought rises. [This is so similar to the path I took with Byron Katie and her materials/facilitators, except that I saved myself from any in person/over the phone facilitation and I started researching criticism of The Work to find out if there was anyone else who felt "apprehension" or "fearful thoughts" as they experienced and/or considered deeply the process of The Work.]

I love you Byron Katie.

For more info on the Work and the Nine-Day School for the Work, go to [www.thework.com]
[And of course, it ends with an ad to Move The Work, because that is what scholarship recipients legally agree to do: [www.thework.com].]

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: June 30, 2012 09:38PM

bump

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: good enough ()
Date: July 12, 2012 10:24AM

Just found out about this:

Quote
Join world famous author and spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle for his first live Hangout on Air event on Saturday, July 21st at 1pm PST / 4pm EST. Eckhart will interact and answer questions live from preselected individuals during this unique event.

[www.youtube.com]

I'm thinking it's safe to assume the preselected individuals will be loyal fans who aren't out to ruffle Trolle's feathers.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 27, 2012 12:57AM

What disappears in this total availability of the past to its subsequent retroactive rewriting is not the hard facts, but the Real of the traumatic encounter whose structuring role in the subject's psychic economy forever resists its symbolic rewriting.


[webcache.googleusercontent.com]

The author of this essay critiqued John Gray. And the author makes it clear he is a Marxist/materialist and disagrees with the Pope. You will see why in a moment.

However, his line of argumentation applies to Byron Katie, Eckhart Tolle, and all of the
'you make your own reality types.'


Quote

Along the neo-pagan lines, for example, John Gray, the author of Men Are From Mars, Women are from Venus, deployed in a series of Oprah Winfrey shows a vulgarized version of deconstructionist psychoanlysis.

What is John Gray's thesis?

His thesis is the following one: Since we ultimately are the stories we are telling ourselves about ourselves, the solution to a psychic deadlock resides in a creative rewriting of the narrative of our past.

What John Gray has in mind is not only the standard cognitive therapy of changing negative false beliefs about oneself into a more positive attitude of the assurance that one is loved by others and capable of creative achievement, but a much more radical pseudo-Freudian notion of regression back to the scene of the primordial traumatic wound.

That is to say, John Gray accepts the psychoanalytic notion of a hard kernel of some early childhood traumatic experience that forever marked the subject's further development; but he gives it, […?] the individual a pathological spin.

What John Gray proposes is that after regressing to this primal traumatic scene and thus directly confronting it, the subject should, under therapy's guidance, rewrite this scene, this ultimate fantasmatic framework of his or her existence, in a more positive, benign, productive narrative.

He himself presented, in a show that I watched, a woman in her late twenties whose primordial traumatic scene — that existed in her unconscious, deforming, inhibiting her creative attitude — was that of her father shouting at her when she was a small girl, "You are worthless, I despise you, nothing will come of you!" John Gray said simply that through his collaboration, this woman should rewrite this scene into a new scene with a benevolent father kindly smiling at her and telling her, "You are okay, I trust you fully," and so on and so on.

And they tried to convince us that this worked, and that at the end the woman gracefully embraced John Gray, crying from happiness that she was no longer haunted by her father's despising attitude towards her.

(Problem with these TV shows is there is no follow up-Corboy)

Now to play this game to the end..(some material deleted)

Along the same lines one can even imagine a rewriting of the Decalogue itself. If some command is too severe, let us regress to the scene on Mt. Sinai and rewrite it.

Adultery? Why not?

Yes, if it is sincere and serves the goal of your profound self-realization.

What disappears in this total availability of the past to its subsequent retroactive rewriting is not the hard facts, but the Real of the traumatic encounter whose structuring role in the subject's psychic economy forever resists its symbolic rewriting.

(Corboy the author then makes a suggestion that the Dalai Lama has been made into a figure of Papal Permissiveness)

This is the reason why we today prefer the Dalai Lama to the Pope.

Even those who respect Pope John Paul II's moral stance usually accompany this admiration with the qualification that the Pope nonetheless remains hopelessly old-fashioned, medieval even, sticking to old dogmas, out of touch with the demands of new times.

How can one today ignore contraception, divorce, abortion? Are these not facts of our life, part of today's self-evident rights?

How can the Pope deny the right to abortion, even to a nun who got pregnant through rape, as the Pope effectively did in the case of the raped nuns during the war in Bosnia?

Is it not clear that, even when one is in principle against abortion, one should in such an extreme case bend the principle and consent to a compromise?

One can understand now why the Dalai Lama is much more appropriate for our post-modern permissive times.

He presents us* with a vague feel-good spiritualism without any specific obligations. Anyone, even the most decadent Hollywood star, can follow him while continuing his money-grubbing, promiscuous lifestyle.

(Rather, the DL and most Buddhists do allow themselves to be presented in this manner. Very few Buddhist teachers in the West have successfully conveyed that there is NO getting away from any misdeed-Corboy)

In contrast to it, the Pope reminds (much more clearly than most Buddhist teachers-Corboy)) reminds us that there is a price to pay for a proper ethical attitude.

(Another Corboy note: this runs counter to Ayn Rand's Objectivism, too)

It is (the Pope's) very stubborn clinging to old values, his ignoring the "realistic" demands of our time even when the argument against it seems obvious, as is the case of the raped nun, that makes him — conditionally I use this term — great.

So I hope you got my point here. I disagree radically with the Pope.

But what I admire nonetheless in his attitude is the form itself. I think the argumentation, the usual argumentation against the Pope is even worse than the Pope, because the argumentation is really purely conformist argumentation.

It's really the argumentation against paying the price for an ethical stance. It's the argumentation of "let's be realists," and so on and so on. It's basically argumentation from an unprincipled attitude.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: question lady ()
Date: August 18, 2012 11:10AM

Steve Salerno has started a series on Byron Katie:

[www.shambook.blogspot.com]

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Re: Byron Katie, Tony Parsons, Osho, 'Medina Rajneesh' in Suffolk
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 25, 2012 01:35AM

A good film to see is Kumare. Recently released. A fellow intentionally impersonated a guru and got a following.

[www.google.com]

And there is a something called the Dr Fox effect. If you speak gibberish but in a very confident manner, it can impress people who show up expecting something.

[www.google.com]

Key thing is, how can one learn from people without mythologizing them.

In the satsang scene, every teacher has a legitimation narrative, a reason why its better to see this guy or gal vs all the others.

The mythologizing sets in. Its marketing.

Then there is the chatter back and forth. I went to Tiru. I just returned from so and so's ashram in the Netherlands.

Or from Arizona, San Rafael, Santa Cruz, Byron Bay, Totnes, etc.

Dont spend more money and time than you can afford.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: luckychrm ()
Date: January 23, 2013 10:07AM

Quote
luckychrm
[mollycules.com] “You have unfinished business sweetheart. The Nine-Day School for the Work would really help you resolve that unfinished business, and I would like to help you make that happen,” Katie said. I didn’t immediately register that Katie was offering me a scholarship...

I'm surprised to find that these blog posts no longer seem to have a trace on the internet. Nor does Molly Hahn make reference to Byron Katie on any of her multiple blogs, except to note Katie as an author in her collection of books.

I wonder if Hahn went to the 9 day school for the work and if so how the scholarship panned out. Currently Hahn appears to be throwing herself productively into yoga, art, and enjoying life. I wish her health and happiness.


eta: added broken source link



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2013 10:20AM by luckychrm.

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Re: Byron Katie, Tony Parsons, Osho, 'Medina Rajneesh' in Suffolk
Date: January 23, 2013 08:50PM

Quote
corboy
A good film to see is Kumare. Recently released. A fellow intentionally impersonated a guru and got a following.

[www.google.com]

And there is a something called the Dr Fox effect. If you speak gibberish but in a very confident manner, it can impress people who show up expecting something.

[www.google.com]

Key thing is, how can one learn from people without mythologizing them.

In the satsang scene, every teacher has a legitimation narrative, a reason why its better to see this guy or gal vs all the others.

The mythologizing sets in. Its marketing.

Then there is the chatter back and forth. I went to Tiru. I just returned from so and so's ashram in the Netherlands.

Or from Arizona, San Rafael, Santa Cruz, Byron Bay, Totnes, etc.

Dont spend more money and time than you can afford.


Byron Katie likes to hang out in Byron Bay NSW Australia regularly and recruit from the low hanging fruit that frequent these areas. She has a little competition from some home grown nut-jobs, but the pickings are good. She probably likes the name-sake synchronicity too. Why not.

I sat in on one a few years back and it is classic hocus-pocus, picking on vulnerable people, confusing them with paradigm shifting questions and the such like- all in a setting conducive to dis inhibition, emotional catharsis and spooky non rational- and proud of it- 'thinking'.

The dollars down for these intro's are relatively cheap. The real price is the rest of your life. As Corboy says, only what you can afford.

I still have a few friends wandering around in a daze trying to turn things around, in exactly the same position, but a lot poorer.

Seems like all these guru's and cults offer the same thing: Absolutely nothing.

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