Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: June 04, 2010 11:48PM
Let's not go there again.
No personal attacks please.
No personal attacks please.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: June 05, 2010 12:10AM
Quote
rrmoderator
Let's not go there again.
No personal attacks please.
Exactly. Thank you, RR.
Are they interested in doing something to stop the cult, or are they more interested in stopping the people who are trying to stop the cult?
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: June 05, 2010 07:35AM
When I write of a factsheet, I am thinking of a very simple and rudimentary document of one page or two pages max, which will contain only the most basic factual information pertaining to the cult known as the Jesus Christians with respect to their history, doctrine, leadership structure, and etc. I am not talking about a dossier. If anybody from "over there" wants to see it before it gets distributed, then please contact me for a copy. I am glad to make changes and amendments as necessary, and plan on making at least a couple hundred copies.
And like I wrote earlier: if anybody wants to see the template I am going to use, then please contact me for a copy of that, too.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2010 07:41AM by zeuszor.
And like I wrote earlier: if anybody wants to see the template I am going to use, then please contact me for a copy of that, too.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2010 07:41AM by zeuszor.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Adrian
()
Date: June 05, 2010 10:30AM
Hi Blackhat,
I think both you and Zeusor have one thing in common, you both are interested in the victims that Dave Mc Kay has duped. Can you imagine how powerful we would all be in assisting those who are victims of the JCs, if we would positively unite? Zeusor, I think it's great that you are attempting to ensure that the former offenses are not repeated.
I think both you and Zeusor have one thing in common, you both are interested in the victims that Dave Mc Kay has duped. Can you imagine how powerful we would all be in assisting those who are victims of the JCs, if we would positively unite? Zeusor, I think it's great that you are attempting to ensure that the former offenses are not repeated.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: June 05, 2010 01:11PM
David McKay has no shortage of "lists" of those he holds his various concocted grudges against.....once those (who object to the things) have persuaded David to so discontinue such practices, they'd be in a far better position in my opinion to then badger others, from the position of holding the "moral high ground".....
I am sure that until they manage that, they'll have the kindness,
NOT to make their own irrational foibles the criteria by which all others are judged....
I again tender the man's writings as evidence that he is criminally insane, and should be liable to prosecution (defrauding the Commonwealth, false pretences, unlawful gain through deceit)
He operates a cult where "inductees" give over everything they have (having been persuaded that by so doing they "fulfilling God's will" ) to an organization (David has registered under the Aust. Companies Act) without any proprietary rights. David (or his immediate family or senior "leaders") hold bank accounts (and land?) in their own names, excluding those members who have not demonstrated sufficient "committment" to the man. There is no due process or procedural justice and at any time, a member may be disenfranchised, after years of servitude, without a cent (say for example because they declined to continue hocking Daivd's third rate written work, for example on the streets..)
Then we have the hypocrisy of David's discussion of "Crimes" and "Sins" [www.jesuschristians.com]
...where he endeavours to cast himself as the "honest broker" between a secular legal system and the moral dilemma of the established churches who fail to "forgive" as (we are led to believe) dear old David might...(..confusing the issue, he fails to answer his own question, and in fact play both side of the fences, in order to again try to "reduce" the debate to nothing more than the the level of his own, half-witted opinion)
This being the David McKay who called the police in order to enforce his seizure of the tens of thousands of dollars and assets held by his son Kevin and the others in the Community, who David had promptly evicted once they contemplated no longer subjecting themselves to his leadership in the mid' 90's.
.....let the old Goat go to hell with his self righteous cant, that papers over the some of VERY sins/crimes he has committed!
Even before a "sin" becomes a "crime", Christian believers often find themselves questioning blanket forgiveness as the answer; but usually only when the sin gets closer to home. What I mean is that we expect God to turn a blind eye to everything that anyone does to offend him, and to anything that people do to one another, as long as we or our friends are not the victims of the sin or crime.
If someone commits adultery with my wife, do I shrug it off? If someone tells lies about me, do I turn the other cheek? If a fellow Christian rips me off in a business deal, do I pretend it never happened? I suspect that in each of these situations we very quickly try to turn the "sin" into a "crime", so that we can "take action" against the person. If the offence clearly is a crime (and a serious one at that) then we simply cease to think of the other person (especially if they are a stranger) as a brother or sister in Christ at all. We instinctively call the police.
(David McKay)
The man's behaviour is BOTH a cirme and a sin!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2010 01:15PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.
I am sure that until they manage that, they'll have the kindness,
NOT to make their own irrational foibles the criteria by which all others are judged....
I again tender the man's writings as evidence that he is criminally insane, and should be liable to prosecution (defrauding the Commonwealth, false pretences, unlawful gain through deceit)
He operates a cult where "inductees" give over everything they have (having been persuaded that by so doing they "fulfilling God's will" ) to an organization (David has registered under the Aust. Companies Act) without any proprietary rights. David (or his immediate family or senior "leaders") hold bank accounts (and land?) in their own names, excluding those members who have not demonstrated sufficient "committment" to the man. There is no due process or procedural justice and at any time, a member may be disenfranchised, after years of servitude, without a cent (say for example because they declined to continue hocking Daivd's third rate written work, for example on the streets..)
Then we have the hypocrisy of David's discussion of "Crimes" and "Sins" [www.jesuschristians.com]
...where he endeavours to cast himself as the "honest broker" between a secular legal system and the moral dilemma of the established churches who fail to "forgive" as (we are led to believe) dear old David might...(..confusing the issue, he fails to answer his own question, and in fact play both side of the fences, in order to again try to "reduce" the debate to nothing more than the the level of his own, half-witted opinion)
This being the David McKay who called the police in order to enforce his seizure of the tens of thousands of dollars and assets held by his son Kevin and the others in the Community, who David had promptly evicted once they contemplated no longer subjecting themselves to his leadership in the mid' 90's.
.....let the old Goat go to hell with his self righteous cant, that papers over the some of VERY sins/crimes he has committed!
Even before a "sin" becomes a "crime", Christian believers often find themselves questioning blanket forgiveness as the answer; but usually only when the sin gets closer to home. What I mean is that we expect God to turn a blind eye to everything that anyone does to offend him, and to anything that people do to one another, as long as we or our friends are not the victims of the sin or crime.
If someone commits adultery with my wife, do I shrug it off? If someone tells lies about me, do I turn the other cheek? If a fellow Christian rips me off in a business deal, do I pretend it never happened? I suspect that in each of these situations we very quickly try to turn the "sin" into a "crime", so that we can "take action" against the person. If the offence clearly is a crime (and a serious one at that) then we simply cease to think of the other person (especially if they are a stranger) as a brother or sister in Christ at all. We instinctively call the police.
(David McKay)
The man's behaviour is BOTH a cirme and a sin!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2010 01:15PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Blackhat
()
Date: June 05, 2010 01:36PM
Let me make it quite clear, I am all for exposing the Jesus Christians to the broader community, but I am also aware of some shocking breaches of privacy which should not be repeated, no matter what the bigger picture might be to some people.
"Collateral damage" is not a world I want to live in.
I support Zeuszor in going to the conference and preparing the paper he proposes. There are ample examples of the way to present things on this web site. Perhaps if he follows Rick's example of the way to go about things, nobody will be upset by what he does.
"Collateral damage" is not a world I want to live in.
I support Zeuszor in going to the conference and preparing the paper he proposes. There are ample examples of the way to present things on this web site. Perhaps if he follows Rick's example of the way to go about things, nobody will be upset by what he does.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Blackhat
()
Date: June 05, 2010 06:25PM
One of the things I find most distressing about the Jesus Christians is the way they identify a young person who is a follower of Christ, and who is a bit mixed up and wants to do the right thing by Jesus.
Once they have identified someone as fitting into that category, and is adrift from family and friend support, for whatever reason, (maybe they are going through some adolescent angst), they come in and fill that gap.
Watch what is happening with Catherine, it's classic.....
Once they have identified someone as fitting into that category, and is adrift from family and friend support, for whatever reason, (maybe they are going through some adolescent angst), they come in and fill that gap.
Watch what is happening with Catherine, it's classic.....
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Blackhat
()
Date: June 05, 2010 06:59PM
Just to explain my comments about Catherine a little further, and I picked this up only today...
So far Catherine has made 7 postings on the JC Forum. I have found 5 of them, and am out of time (Zeuszor, do you have a few spare hours?)...
Here are the postings from her in sequence that I have found:
All these postings appear on the thread "Forsaking All"
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
And what is Dave’s response to all this?
Hmmmm..........
Sure, Catherine, what you need to do is go to Mummy and Daddy's house, where they have too many possesions, and take whatever you think they would say was yours on your last birthday, and give it to the Jesus Christians. Try to avoid an argument by doing it when they are not home. Some Jesus Christian friends will probably help you do this. You can find a new family with them. Then you can get rid of all those confused feelings you are having and dedicate your life to following Jesus in the only true way with your new friends...
So far Catherine has made 7 postings on the JC Forum. I have found 5 of them, and am out of time (Zeuszor, do you have a few spare hours?)...
Here are the postings from her in sequence that I have found:
Quote
20/05/2010 19:08
I think Jesus` teachings are important and I do not take them to heart enough. I think I should be able to forsake all for Jesus` sake.
I do consider myself a Christian, but how much do I really put into practice what he taught? Do I really follow Jesus properly? I think I need to do much more work in this area. With love in Jesus from Catherine
27/05/2010 20:19
Thanks for the welcome Alfred. Thanks you for being supportive towards my comments.
I believe anyone who manages to follow Jesus and in doing so forsakes all else is doing very well indeed.
31/05/2010 17:10
I think I and my mum and dad have too many possessions. My mum has often said 'too much stuff!' and I think there is a serious side to this because we do have too much stuff. We have too much stuff in the loft and I find it difficult to keep my room tidy and I`ve got stuff on the floor.
Sometimes I think I am a fundamentally sad person, which seems strange for a Christian. Sometimes it seems I go from one sadness to another whilst problems simply do not get resolved. I`m just not a happy person, and when I used to laugh and jest it used to lead me to feel even greater despair soon after.
Jesus has really helped me, and yet I still struggle to escape the person I used to be even though I am a new creation and born again of the Holy Spirit.
I suppose forsaking all for Jesus` sake means we let go of other things we hanker after. I`m feeling sad right now and I think it may stem from my failure to forsake all for Jesus` sake. But that is not my only faliure by any means.
Catherine
01/06/2010 17:31
Thanks for the advice you have given me. I agree, if I were more selfless I would be happier. Losing self for Jesus` sake is a good idea.
As for physological causes of sadness, I used to get very depressed and I think that despair still lingers even though it does not conquer me anymore since I have been conquered by Jesus. I used to take anti-depressant medication but I was taken off it.
Other people who have Christian beliefs are a comfort and I know a couple of such friends in the town where I live but they are much older than me. Self-discpline and doing the right thing is imortant in being happy I agree.
The concept of forsaking all, for Jesus, is like David to my Goliath of problems and selfishness!
That is, huge though my sin is, Jesus will conquer it! Yet honestly I still feel miserable
Thanks, Catherine
03/06/2010 18:46
Thanks for your thoughts Joe, Alfred, Kimono and Dave. Thanks for your offer of help. (I have already typed this once but the computer lost it!) I think it is true that in making others happy we make ourselves happy.
St. Francis of Assisi prayed,
‘O master grant that I may never seek,
So much to be consoled as to console,
To be understood as to understand,
To be loved as to love with all my soul’.
This means I should seek to love rather than to be loved (and I assure you I have got this disastrously wrong in the past!) By extension I should seek to make people happy rather than seek to make myself happy.
I agree that there is a Godly sorrow and a worldly sorrow, just as there is a great difference between Godly jealousy and worldly jealousy.
I believe I should see how fortunate I am and count my blessings. I hopefully will put your good advice into practice. My room is tidier now for a start, thanks be to Jesus!
As for the theme of forsaking all, I feel Jesus is wanting me to do just that and deepen my commitment to Him. I pray that Jesus will incline my heart to properly forsake all for his sake,
Catherine
All these postings appear on the thread "Forsaking All"
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
And what is Dave’s response to all this?
Quote
Great moves, Catherine! Have you been able to meet up with any of our members in the U.K.?
Hmmmm..........
Sure, Catherine, what you need to do is go to Mummy and Daddy's house, where they have too many possesions, and take whatever you think they would say was yours on your last birthday, and give it to the Jesus Christians. Try to avoid an argument by doing it when they are not home. Some Jesus Christian friends will probably help you do this. You can find a new family with them. Then you can get rid of all those confused feelings you are having and dedicate your life to following Jesus in the only true way with your new friends...
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Blackhat
()
Date: June 05, 2010 07:41PM
I'm being harsh here, but with good reason.....
I guess I would like to say to Catherine, or to any of her friends or relatives who might be trying to find out about the Jesus Christians, you are welcome here. There are many articles in the reference section here, as well as other internet references, and youtube footage. Also there is another forum of ex-members and supporters who can give you information from an inside perspective, and I'm sure RR won't mind in this case me giving their address.
jcs.xjcs.org
We all would like you to find other information about this cult before you go down a path which might be hard to turn back from, and we all offer you support in your quest.
There are many groups and agencies which can help you find a way to serve Jesus and find happiness and meaning in your life, and they don't have to mean turning your back on those who love and support you, even if they don't fully understand you.
I guess I would like to say to Catherine, or to any of her friends or relatives who might be trying to find out about the Jesus Christians, you are welcome here. There are many articles in the reference section here, as well as other internet references, and youtube footage. Also there is another forum of ex-members and supporters who can give you information from an inside perspective, and I'm sure RR won't mind in this case me giving their address.
jcs.xjcs.org
We all would like you to find other information about this cult before you go down a path which might be hard to turn back from, and we all offer you support in your quest.
There are many groups and agencies which can help you find a way to serve Jesus and find happiness and meaning in your life, and they don't have to mean turning your back on those who love and support you, even if they don't fully understand you.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: June 05, 2010 10:50PM
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
They seem to have banned zeuszor on the sly, as I was unable to log in under that username, so I simply re-registered as "Dirty Sanchez" and posted under that name. Voila.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2010 10:51PM by zeuszor.
They seem to have banned zeuszor on the sly, as I was unable to log in under that username, so I simply re-registered as "Dirty Sanchez" and posted under that name. Voila.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2010 10:51PM by zeuszor.
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