I though these were some interesting recent observations elsewhere on the forum....

[forum.culteducation.com]

Its very interesting how every single sect, has some type of up-front process that could qualify as a "sucker-test".
In this case, its the idea that the JRI sold thumb-ring holds in your "energy" flowing from your pinky finger, or whatever nonsense he said.

The Guru always puts a very strong belief "sucker-test" right near the beginning of their recruitment process. Its very important.
It does two things, it serves as a FILTER which automatically rejects those who are critical thinkers, the Guru does NOT want critical thinkers making trouble in his group, he'd rather just reject them upfront. In advanced sales, that is called...

QUALIFYING THE CUSTOMER.

More importantly, it serves as a very important step in group and cultic recruiting. As in...IF YOU BELIEVE THIS YOU CAN BE TRAINED TO BELIEVE ANYTHING.
Every single Guru has one or more of these processes, they want followers who for whatever reason are pliable enough to be trained to believe any type of nonsense.
And once you start falling down the rabbit-hole, it gets worse and worse.

This is not to blame the victim, its mainly because many people have no training or experience in the dark arts of persuasion, influence, advanced sales, thought-reform, brainwashing, lies, trickery, and exploitation.
The Guru knowingly takes advantage of those who are often the most decent and "too-trusting" people, who can't imagine the Guru is telling the Big Lie right to their face.

So the Guru starts with a small crazy belief, and then once you believe the small crazy belief, then he/she knows you can be trained to literally believe ANY crazy belief, that serves the Guru's purposes.

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June 02, 2010 12:06PM
The Anticult
Date Added: 03/17/2006
Posts: 3301
Re: James Ray, QUALIFYING THE CUSTOMER and other "sucker-tests"
It also just became obvious...
what is a "sucker", the term that is used in professional sales?

That comes from the word "thumb-sucker", which of course is negative slang for an adult who is gullible, or naive like a child, and will believe almost anything they are told.
That is the LGAT Guru's dream customer, they troll and target for "easy targets".
They also then deliberately try to regress those customers, by calling them "Schoolmates", and treating them like they are in grade school.

Like the Guru's say, taking money from seminar junkies, is like "taking candy from a baby".

And to Qualify their Customer upfront is Job #1 for the LGAT Guru, and the best way to do that is with a sucker-test. If the person passes that test, then unfortunately they are in for serious trouble.


Of course, another technique seen in this thread, is when the Guru like James Ray verbally abuses a new recruit, that is another TEST. Will the customer put-up with being verbally abused and berated, while paying thousands of dollars, and being ordered what to do? If so, then that person is the perfect customer for James Ray.

The LGAT Gurus don't try to manufacture pliable customers/victims, that is too hard, instead they just try to locate them, by trolling with "free events".

Just like the vile con-artists who prey on seniors, target only the most vulnerable.

Hi Zeusor,

I too congratulate you for your academic excellence. If you were stuck in a cult you couldn't possibly achieve such independence. It's great to be free!

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Malcolm Wesley WREST
You are right there Zeusor, while the scripture does admonishes me to "hate" sin.....(I waiting to see something from David McKay OTHER than sin....however I'll acknowledge that is is theoretically possible).....I should though, be a little more "up-beat" in relation to those individuals, still enslaved within David's empire.....no doubt the majority of them, were all once, bright idealistic and principled young people,.....

I hope that some of that has somehow survived....cynically though, I feel that the more, time after time, one learns to repress oneself in order to accommodate the demands of McKay ...the less and less of the original "good" that remains.....

Ross was certainly once a friend, who I remember in my prayers....Whatever's left of "him" though, I don't know.....

Vicki and her children, Ash, Grace and Hosea are some recent departures....over 36 years (since 1974) David has won 18 "permanent" serfs for himself....."two" a year.....(and no-one since Joe Johnson?)......

Assuming he "lives" (it's more a lingering death in his case) to 80, that would on average only give him, another eight lives to claim....

(...although it still seems a little like trying to console yourself about a "less successful" serial killer......)

In point of fact, Grace and Jose (his name is not Hosea) were essentially kicked out of the group, and did not leave altogether voluntarily. Jose left them for good around three years ago. Grace, around a year ago, or a little more.

DM is positively ruthless about putting people out on the street, does it to this day. Not that I have to explain that to the "others."

They put this one relatively recent ex-member out on the street in London, with a little money and a sleeping bag. I was told that she was urinated upon by some homeless persons, while she was sleeping in an alley. Her own husband stayed with the JCs rather than go out with his wife.
So she goes back, begging to be let back in. Eventually, she and her husband both left the group, and have been out for five years or so.

So when I meet these recent ex-members that tell me of how they were treated in the post-Split JCs, I shiver with disgust. These kids are the real victims, not DM and his consort and lieutenants. I could never bash a woman who was kicked out of the JCs and later got peed on.

Vicki I know little about, in terms of her story; as far as I know Ash left the group over two years ago.

The JCs have not recruited anybody new in over four years, and I'll bet you a pint probably never will again. Someday I hope to drink that pint with you, Mal.

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malcolm wesley wrest
Which other families are (currently) in David's "good books" Zeuszor?

Who else, then? Hmm, let me consult my list. The present membership of the JCs is made up of:

Casey, Christine, Robin, Roland, Susan, Daniel, Fran, Kim, Alf, Paul, Ulrike, Joe, Rose, Karl, the two Kronmiller brothers, Jesse, Simon, Rinehard, Bob, plus a handful of "associate members." Also, Ross and Barry. That's twenty-two names, not counting the Dark Overlord and his consort.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2010 05:37AM by zeuszor.

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Malcolm Wesley WREST
Only 21 accompanying "friends" (Zoe for example?) and family, which actually seems rather unimpressive to me, for a completely free, "good-will" event....it would appear that the majority of the family of current members have elected to stay well clear of the event....

By the way, Mal, Zoe Briggs (aka Lisa Simpson, aka Anaglypta, aka Liverpool Writer) got fired from the old welikejesus late last September. DM somehow took control of that forum and incorporated it into their main site. Zoe was at the time not told of DM's changes, and was quite shocked upon learning of them. She was in Australia last fall, as well, and I know nothing of her present situation.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2010 09:04AM by zeuszor.

I saw Rick Ross, on that movie "Join Us", which was shown in Australia on SBS last night. He seemed very measured and thorough in his comments.

[www.culteducation.com]

Raimund Melz came across as a classic cult leader.

But he is really tame.

He never got most of his followers to undergo risky kidney donation surgery as a free-will sign of dedication.

Dave McKay is way above him in the arena of cultic control.....

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Blackhat
I saw Rick Ross, on that movie "Join Us", which was shown in Australia on SBS last night. He seemed very measured and thorough in his comments.

[www.culteducation.com]

Raimund Melz came across as a classic cult leader.

But he is really tame.

He never got most of his followers to undergo risky kidney donation surgery as a free-will sign of dedication.

Dave McKay is way above him in the arena of cultic control.....

Is this program available for viewing online?

No.

You can buy it here:

[www.joinusthemovie.com]

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Malcolm Wesley WREST
Congratulations on your (no doubt thoroughly deserved) marks Zeszor! Well done....

I've certainly enjoyed and appreciated, what I've read myself to date.

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Adrian
Hi Zeusor,

I too congratulate you for your academic excellence. If you were stuck in a cult you couldn't possibly achieve such independence. It's great to be free!

Thanks to you both. Something I have discovered in the course of this journey of mine and grappled with, Adrian, is that it's one thing to get out of the cult, but it's another thing to get the cult out of you.

In a few weeks I shall be traveling to the annual conference of the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA), in New York, USA.

[www.icsahome.com]

I have begun the process of creating a short fact-sheet on the JCs, for distribution at said conference.

When it is complete, I will upon request send a copy to anybody from XJCs who emails and asks me for one. I'll work on it mostly this weekend and will hopefully have it done by Monday.

By offering to share the factsheet for review prior to my distributing it at the conference, I hope to be able to create an objective factsheet that is free of inaccuracies about the cult, and in general I do not want to inadvertently distribute any information that somebody might object to being released.

It is simply my goal to distribute information about the cult known as the Jesus Christians to the assembled cult-ed professionals, researchers, and ex-members at the ICSA conference, and (in the interest of more amicable relations between us all) to not step on anybody's toes from the other forum. Nobody can accuse me sneaking around or anything like that. I'll create the document, and then if somebody over at XJCs asks me for one via email I'll send you a copy for review, and give the opportunity to recommend changes to be made to it. I just want everything to be square and above-board with this. Fair enough, everyone?

I even have a template for a general Group Analysis Form that I have not yet completed; if anybody wants a copy of my template then I'll send that too.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2010 09:48AM by zeuszor.

I doubt they would be interested in any attempt by you to get them into your orbit.

I'm happy to read it, but any feedback from me would be largely about grammar and punctuation.

Perhaps your best friend Private Eyes could help you with a second opinion? I wonder if you asked him for one before you distributed the earlier file?

Also Rick Ross might peruse your submission, given the fact that you probably have more posts on his forum than anyone else. He seems to have a measured stance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2010 08:53PM by Blackhat.

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Blackhat
I doubt they would be interested in any attempt by you to get them into your orbit.

I'm happy to read it, but any feedback from me would be largely about grammar and punctuation.

Perhaps your best friend Private Eyes could help you with a second opinion? I wonder if you asked him for one before you distributed the earlier file?

Also Rick Ross might peruse your submission, given the fact that you probably have more posts on his forum than anyone else. He seems to have a measured stance.

Into my orbit? What's that supposed to mean? I am not the cult leader here.

Can't you cut it out with the swipes and antagonism, Blackhat?

I am, in the interest of fairness, offering to let them see what I plan on distributing at the conference. If you want to see it, then write me and ask for it.