Am I right in thinking that Reinhard's lawsuit against the Johnsons goes to court again this week?

I assume that the Johnsons' lawyer is aware of Reinhard's background and that this will form part of the defense? Specifically, as well as having engaged with Joseph from when he was a child, Reinhard was arrested in England over the disappearance of the schoolboy Bobby Kelly:

[www.guardian.co.uk]

I like to think that lawyers do their research, but you never know. Can somebody double check that the Johnsons' laywer is aware of Reinhard's previous arrest?

the JesusChristians whole operation is a front to work for money so they can travel the world pretending to be devotees of Christ. In some ways the JesusChristians have convinced themselves of this fabrication by trying to make Christians feel guilty about their life when nobody should have to suffer this lie. ecc 4:19moreover when God gives any man wealth possessions (God allows wealth) and enables him to enjoy them, to accept his lot and be happy in his work-this is the gift of God. DM points out one verse where it is evident that the man had an issue with wealth. what the jesuschristians fail to understand (ecc6:20) nobody is perfect. the parable. (matt19:21) if you want to be perfect go sell your possessions. >>>jesus said if!<<< jesus never said you had to be perfect. jesus used this parable to help a man who put money before God. jesus said to this man >>>if<<< he wanted to be perfect, jesus never said to him he >>>had<<< to be perfect to inherit the kingdom of God.

matt6:2so when you give to the needy (kidneys donation) do not announce it with trumpets (media). in truth they (JesusChristians) have received their reward in full. so that your giving may be in secret. then your father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. there are some very dagerously unbalanced personalities on the JesusChristians site that are in dire need of serious psychological help. these people seem to be unfluencing the unbalanced broken direction the JesusChristians continue to take after COG. its quite evident that people join cults not for Jesus but for themselves to escape a situation they cannot face on there own. DMs ideologies are stolen from COG, quakers and mainstream Christianity. a tree built upon rocks will eventually fall into the ocean and die.

Dear Talamasca,

I believe that the matters you raised have been brought to the attention of the Johnsons however thank you for going to the trouble of bringing them to everyone's notice once again....David has played the "freedom of religion" card (while he and his coterie of "leaders" conspire to deny the members of the JesusChristians access to any "information" that might contradict David, by restrictions on the fundamental freedoms of Movement, Speech and Association) in previous court cases.....
..
.....Reinehardt may increasingly find though, that DISASSOCIATION with McKay would be a wiser ruse (We are a "small group" of "independently organized" Christians...who just "work for love" out of the "goodness of our hearts"...), with which to perjure the course of justice......but I'm sure that some "satanic figure" is in deep counsel with him over this very matter, even as I write....

..and thank you for your thoughts Charmaine.....I agree with you that David tends to "attract" people who are rather less skilled than he is in hiding their particular dementia (...as David is an active predator, he still requires a little "sheeps clothing" that "would-be-if-they-could-be" wolves may do without....)...yet who nevertheless in some way, still accurately reflect the inner workings of Davids' own mind which was "vain" and delusionally "self-centered" from childhood, as we are informed by his own mother....(...and would you please be so kind as to thank her for her candid honesty there, Robin!!!)...a courageous and selfless woman who I must again acknowledge, knowledgeably publicly spoke out against what David was doing, despite any personal cost to herself, certainly a couple of times during my "interment" and I believe on other occasions......unlike some of her more pusillanimous sons....!

Could David have ever once have been saved from himself....isolated, and in a suitable institution?....well it might once have been possible, decades ago....

.....thinking back to "my day" (early to mid eighties), I believe that the quality of the pretence was far higher than what you see now.....(e.g Christian scriptures are now largely replaced with nothing more than references to David)....perhaps that is for the better though, as David thus continues to remain "spectacularly unsuccessful" (as Jeremy Kyle pointed out) in luring more people into unpaid servitude for him....

It has taken the Quakers over a year to formally revoke Dave's membership. They are traditionally famous for taking a long time and agonising over decisions like this. Cherry has posted that it is all about "Gossip". Ha!

[welikejesus.com]

As far as I can see there is no "Gossip" about it. Dave's activities are widely broadcast on his web site, and they are spiralling further and further away from all things "Quakerly" for all to read without any gossip necessary to demonstrate why his membership revocation is the correct action for the Quakers

Memo to the Jesus Christians:

If you're going to keep up the pretence that Cherry is genuinely writing all the posts currently being attributed to her, try to make sure that you don't then refer to her in the third person, as happened in the "Gossips, an article by a Quaker" thread, where 'Cherry' posted this:

"When David reported that the Australian Yearly Meeting Clerk attended a meeting in Ireland with a Kenyan delegation of Friends at which two weighty Australian Friends (Helen Bayes and Valerie Joy) slandered Dave and Cherry and the Jesus Christians, the first question was "Who told you that?" and suddenly some weighty Kenyan Quakers were added to the list of people to be dealt with internationally":

[welikejesus.com]

Clearly, if this was really Cherry posting, she would have said something like "Dave and me", not "Dave and Cherry".

It's not the biggest lie these people have told, but it does illustrate how deception runs through everything this little group does.

You know, Talamasca,

While we might all perhaps just so easily presume from the quote (one of many!!) that you have noted here, that absolutely nothing other deceit in one form or another IS utterly and irrevocably the "heart" and "soul" (for want of a better term) of ALL that the Jesus Christians stand for;

I wonder if sometimes we are being too hard on the poor old chap....

After all David, through the written work that he produces, does have his uses...namely that he's his own worst enemy!

David's trying his best to employ fronts (freeganism, "altruistic" organ donation, international "welfare" work) that serve to deliberately disinform the wider public of the fact that he does little more than entrap young people in decades of unpaid servitude to him, by manipulating their Christian idealism into worship of David ("Whoever you give your time for, you ultimately serve" as the JesusChristian literature puts it so well!!)....but the idiocy that his own self-centeredness is feeding, continues to eat away at his credibility and ultimately simply threaten his "membership" in those causes he seeks to covertly hijack....

...to be able to produce such a ramblingly poor, barely cogent attempt at self-justification (David wrote about the Clerk attending a meeting in Ireland at which nasty Helen and Valerie said things David didn't like to hear mentioned about him, to people from Kenya who were also there at the meeting among others, those Kenyan Quakers now being in fear of ex-communication because they asked for the sources of this information) and then present it for serious consideration is just S-O-O-O sadly pathetic.....

....that is it any wonder at all, that he has failed to seriously "grow" his own little cult beyond the 20 something individuals he current psychologically torments there....


....Could, dear God, through your graciousness, David live long enough, to completely discredit himself and all of the individuals committed to long term membership of the JesusChristians, with the further production of writ at large, of such manifestly transparent dishonesty......(...and then curl up and die!!)

Amen.

One of the hallmarks of a cult is that when they get caught lying, they try to distract people by posting a vast and complex amount of material. The hope is that a simple truth will thus be obscured. Fortunately, most people aren't taken in by such blatant deception. With this in mind ...

1. The Quakers thought they were being infiltrated by a cult and threw out the guilty party. Result: tens of thousands of words of self-righteous slander against the Quakers.

2. The Jesus Christians got caught hacking into a private email account, stealing a password and posting bogus messages. Result: tens of thousands of words trying to justify the lies and deception. Interestingly, this re-opened the debate into some racist emails that were sent a few months ago. It now seems probable that these were sent by a Jesus Chrisitian. To be fair, it's not certain that the Jesus Christian concerned is a racist. He/she may simply have been following orders and trying to smear critics of the group.

Dear Talamasca,

I'd be interested to hear more of the "hacking" that you mention....any ideas who may have been responsible (even if it was an "unknown figure" within the JesusChristians , that would then make them ALL liable to charges of complicity.....I am of course thinking of the summary offence cited below and how the JesusChristians might potentially be charged....(you can access this and further information yourself through ...Austlii....NSW...Conslidated Acts...("C")....Crimes Act 1900)

CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 308H

Unauthorised access to or modification of restricted data held in computer (summary offence)
308H Unauthorised access to or modification of restricted data held in computer (summary offence)

(1) A person:
(a) who causes any unauthorised access to or modification of restricted data held in a computer, and
(b) who knows that the access or modification is unauthorised, and
(c) who intends to cause that access or modification,
is guilty of an offence.
Maximum penalty: Imprisonment for 2 years.
(2) An offence against this section is a summary offence.
(3) In this section:
"restricted data" means data held in a computer, being data to which access is restricted by an access control system associated with a function of the computer.


In relation to what might be considered the (usual) function of the JesusChristians in their various endeavours as a "Joint Criminal Enterprise", (indicted by a contract of common purpose to perjure the wider course of justice in their fraud of individuals) I tender the following, definitions which I submit they would "satisfy"...


CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 351

Trial and punishment of abettors of minor indictable offences
351 Trial and punishment of abettors of minor indictable offences

Any person who aids, abets, counsels, or procures, the commission of a minor indictable offence, whether the same is an offence at Common Law or by any statute, may be proceeded against and convicted together with or before or after the conviction of the principal offender and may be indicted, convicted, and punished as a principal offender.

Hence potentially making David John MacKay legally liable for the computer offences that you have raised.

On another interesting note, you may also see that the New South Wales Crimes Act 1900 provides that even where a crime happens geographically "outside" the political boundary of the state, where a "nexus" can be established (the impact of the crime yet has some "effect" on a person or institution within NSW), charges may still be laid,

CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 10C

Extension of offences if there is a geographical nexus
10C Extension of offences if there is a geographical nexus

(1) If:
(a) all elements necessary to constitute an offence against a law of the State exist (disregarding geographical considerations), and
(b) a geographical nexus exists between the State and the offence,
the person alleged to have committed the offence is guilty of an offence against that law.
(2) A geographical nexus exists between the State and an offence if:
(a) the offence is committed wholly or partly in the State (whether or not the offence has any effect in the State), or
(b) the offence is committed wholly outside the State, but the offence has an effect in the State.

Hence even a relocation out of Sydney, say to to northern NSW (another country Housing Commission location....they are always relatively easy to transfer to as there is a perpetual on-going shortage of Housing Commission properties in urban areas and anyone who is prepared to move to one of the less in demand rural properties is happily accommodated), wouldn't to my mind, prevent David from easily being located by law enforcement officers.


Whose email precisely, was hacked into, at what date?

Malcolm,

The hacking saga is complex. The most recent example relates to private messages between Kevin and Franky. These were hacked into and parts of them were then quoted on the Jesus Christians website, in the top post here, under the sub-heading "Tensions between Kevin and Franky":

[www.welikejesus.com]

Kevin discusses this here, in the third post from the top:

[jcs.xjcs.org]

PtolemyGlenn raised the issue here, sixth post down. 'Cherry' responded (eleventh post down), ducking the issue:

[welikejesus.com]

Also, mcrob walked away (fourth post down) because of the hacking:

[welikejesus.com]

Internet law is complex. I'm no expert, but I think there are several issues, mainly relating to jurisdiction: where did the hacking take place? Where is the Jesus Christians website hosted? Who is the internet service provider? Given that Jesus Christians routinely post under each other's names, it may be difficult to prove who did the hacking. In law, the person most likely to be culpable here is the website administrator ('Lisa Simpson'?).

With love,

Talamasca

Dear Talamasca,

Thank you for your remarks and postings.....( I have also received some private messages about this) I'll look into the English law here..."Complicity" in Australia (for serious indictable offences at least) is legislated in such a way that it WOULD'T matter, if the JesusChristians "post" under each others' names.....that would simply make them ALL liable.....however as you say the "website" provider might ultimately be responsible......David has clearly deceived Lisa into playing the role of "fall girl" for him....that's fine....if she's content to do that for him....then that's fine, ...once the law is contravened..... she'll do!

The inadvertent release of "passwords" would not though meet the legal criteria necessary for charges under hacking....

The matter Kevin writes of though, would:

"It includes private communications that they received from my uncle, and a PM exchange between myself and Franky that occurred on the XJC forum. Casey does not indicate how they accessed this exchange, but I am assuming (because it is used to attack both Franky and myself) that someone hacked into either Franky's or my account, which I assume is illegal. This might explain why my father is hiding in the background and just providing information to others to posts, so he can escape prosecution. It is consistent with an established MO of snooping and illegally recording conversations and I would advise;

Anyone who ever posted on the JC forum should find a new password for use on this forum, and change it regularly".

Many govt. agencies would be able to track down the origins of the sequences of internet commands, that accessed this information, and then be able to trace them to a particular licensed terminal. (Interesting a "govt. agency" in investigating, such a small time loser as McKay would be the bigger difficulty!!)

Kevins' salutary warning at the conclusion of this extract I have quoted from him, deserves the highest commendation!


Yes I see what you mean here in the links you have posted PtolemyyGlenn is barraged with "reasons" purposely and continously invented AFTER the fact, to "explain" away David's preposterously autocratic behaviour...an old deception!! My cousin works in the military....how ironic if lil' old Glenn ended up, working under him!! Perhaps the military service will further "grow" Glenns personality in ways that he may not yet appreciate.....


(On the parade ground....new recruits stand sheepishly under the glowering gaze of their instructor, in a scene perhaps ever so slightly faintly reminiscent of Stanley Kubricks' "Full Metal Jacket")

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: "If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training... you will be a weapon, you will be a minister of death, praying for war. But until that day you are pukes! You're the lowest form of life on Earth. You are not even human fucking beings! You are nothing but unorganized grabasstic pieces of amphibian shit! Because I am hard, you will not like me. But the more you hate me, the more you will learn. I am hard, but I am fair! There is no racial bigotry here!...and what's more.....abso-fucking-lutely NO dabbling in cults.... Do you maggots understand that?!!!

Recruits: (..but not quite quickly enough) "Yes SIR"!

Sergeant Hartman: I can't h-e-a-r you.... MAGGOTS!!

Recruits: (Uniformly stamping their feet) "YES SAH, SERGEANT MAJOR SAH!"



and in another of the links you quote, Mcrob states....

".....I made quite a few enemies over on the RR forum asking them to leave my mother out of their fight...."

Well,.....I'd have to say that he's made a few friends here now!!! I thought Rob was simply accepting brother David's histronic "historys" for granted....I didn't realize (judging from his postings here), that he actually dared to challenge the accounts David was feeding him....now I can understand the positive comments that were emailed to me about him!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2008 04:29AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.