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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: Brad69 ()
Date: November 02, 2006 01:18AM

It's telling that given the opportunity to answer meaningful questions posed on this thread, and therefore the opportunity to dispel people's concerns about Dave McKay and the Jesus Christians, he chooses to say:
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I think that I have explained (several times now) that I don't answer questions just because you ask them.

Getting a straight answer out of this man is akin to splitting the atom.

His evasiveness speaks volumes.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: November 02, 2006 01:25AM

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rrmoderator
zeuszor:

The only way to deal with cult leaders like McKay is to expose them and educate the public by sharing information, which is what is being done here.

Other than that if there is any evidence of criminal wrong-doing, welfare or government benefits fraud it should be reported to the authorities.

You cannot "take him out," other than by working within such a framework.

Well, (this is to all participating in this thread) if there's anything I can do to help, please let me know.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: muppet ()
Date: November 02, 2006 03:15AM

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snuggles
What on earth is going on here.

Let me get this straight. This Dave Mcay has three kids who have left the Jesus Christians? -Who are now adults with their own lives and maybe even families of their own.

Presumably they know what he is really like and up to, including the devastation he has reeked on a whole host of OTHER families.

So why don’t they go public and expose him? .

You make a good case here Snuggles and it is hard to disagree with you, but as you also acknowledge, it is not easy. Apostate, Cultmalleus and Matilda are doing a fine job. (BTW where is cultmalleus? I hope he has not been intimidated too) This board will prove to be an invaluable source of information about Dave McKay and the Jesus Christians. Rick I think it would be a good idea to link the forum pages to individual group inforkmation pages, as the forum will always contain more recent information and links to real people, should anyone need them.

The situation must be horrendous for the McKay children. Having no contact with their mother and sister and having been raised in a cult, then thrown out to the wind! However what their father does is NOT their fault and they are entitled to their recovery and privacy. I do agree though, that it would promote awareness about this group and that information , coming from such a strong source,would prevent some others from recruitment. It would be very difficult and would take a lot of courage and stamina to face the aftermath of Dave's wrath.

He is blatant in his defiance of universal values and so disrespectful in the way he refers to ex members who have been dispensed with.

I am not at all convinced by Dave's feigned concern for the career of any ex member or any member for that matter. I know he is ruthless. He himself has illustrated this so well , it deserves a repost and commentary.

[[color=darkred:eabace4800]quote] Dave McKay

Can't remember if it is in this thread or another one on this site, but someone has been telling some story about a 17yo guy who stayed with us and woke up one morning with no underpants on; and also about us going door to door (in Liverpool, I think) trying to get pensioners to give us furniture. I have been scratching my head trying to work out where these stories could have come from, since they sounded totally absurd at first. But there is usually some thread of truth even in the biggest lies. As you know, we often recycle stuff that is thrown out. So perhaps someone saw some furniture out on the curb in Liverpool and knocked on a door to ask if it was being thrown out. The only time I've even heard of us going door to door to witness was in that little town in Wyoming where Atilla and Jessica were stranded for a few weeks while getting an engine fixed.

Now, about the 17yo guy... I can only think of three times in our history when we have had any dealings with anyone under 18 years of age. One was Lakshmi, in India, who also gets a mention on this site. The full story with Lakshmi was not only that her uncle was forcing her to have sex, but that her father had locked her up in preparation for a forced marriage to a Hindu (since he had heard that she had converted to Christianity). Her 18th birthday was only a week away when she escaped and came to us for help. We paid for her to stay in a hotel on her own, since it is against the law in India to convert anyone under 18 years of age. A few years later, her mother was arrested for having killed her daughter-in-law, and her father told Lakshmi (after she had turned 1 , that she owed it to the family to kill herself to save them the humiliation of having a daughter convert to Christianity.

So we have to say that the Rick Ross set is taking the side of a violent, fundamentalist, sexually perverted family against a young girl (one week away from being 1 becoming a Christian. You see how easy it is to end up justifying anything when you get on the kind of witch hunts that this web site fosters?

Anyway, the second minor to stay with us was Bobby Kelly, who had written permission from his grandmother to be with us when the cult-busters got to her in England and told her that she would never see him again unless she signed papers to have him made a ward of the state and sent the police out after him. It appears that they also told her not to even tell us that they were going to cook up a story about us having kidnapped him!

And the third one? Well, again, it was a case of someone who was just a couple weeks short of being 18. he was a ward of the state in Liverpool, who was living on his own. However, someone (officials, guardians... I'm not sure, as I wasn't there) was getting upset about him having anything to do with us, and so we encouraged him to take off into hiding for those few weeks. We had to look after him a bit more than Lakshmi, however, bcause he was mentally challenged, and would constantly poo his pants and wet himself. In short, he spent about a year with us, travelled to Australia, then to America (where he wandered off on his own one night in Las Vegas and gave us all a scare!) and then back to England. Sexually or physically assaulted? No way! But he may have missed a meal for some kind of an indiscretion.

Well, there you have it, the bigger picture. But how much do you wanna bet that there will be a response seeing even more evil than already existed in these people's minds after they have read this letter.

Dave McKay
Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Australia
Posted: 09-07-2006 01:42 PM Post subject: the state ward in Liverpool
_____________________________________
Sorry, I didn't make it clear. The young man in question was not living with guardians. He was living on his own. We found him roaming the streets with pooey pants. A couple of our members (who are now registered nurses) took him home, cleaned him up and tried to help him out. The only interest the authorities had in him came when someone heard that he had come into contact with us. It was a very long time ago, and I don't intend to start a serious hunt for details to satisfy the likes of the people on this forum. I've already told you more than anyone else knows about this incident, and obviously that has not eased anyone's fears.
[/color:eabace4800]


All of this happened at his bidding as does everything else of imprtance in the group. Dave was there and involved in the Indian case. It may have been Rols and his wife that were involved in the other 2 cases but Dave was behind it.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: November 02, 2006 03:27AM

FYI--The navigation bar appears on every page within the database and this inlcudes a link to the Forum.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Also at the entry page is "Getting Started" located at the top.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Note "step five," which links visitors to the search tool for the message board.

This format seems to be working well.

Additionally the search engines (e.g. Google) are picking up information and directing users to the board when something pops up. And everything is visible to the general public.

Based upon the persistent complaints I have received from various groups and leaders about the posts at this board, Google and the other search engines are apparently working well, which has made some folks unhappy.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: cultmalleus ()
Date: November 02, 2006 07:17AM

Don't worry muppet, im still here, been reading the posts; really good to welcome Gladitzover, Snuggles, Freeofdm and others;
A lot of us still have "flashbacks" to our time in the group; god it takes a long time to deprogram. It's hard because most of us were and still are very idealistic and this was exploited by Dave for his own ends, with enough stuff that actually was idealistic mixed in to keep us in the group, all the while sucking us deeper and deeper into his vortex. Most of us also lacked a positive father role model in our lives, and Dave appeared to provide this for us.

The deeper you get the more you accept things you never would have before, and the twisted clever manipulative ideology makes you believe that your misgivings are a sign of your lack of spirituality or of your pride. The Maoists of China used to run similar "self criticism" sessions where people had to admit their "sins", even if they did not think they had sinned. If Dave thinks you have sinned then that's what you have to show true remorse for and pay penance for.

I was really sad to see Rols and Sue and Daniel rejoin, one would have thought Dave had extracted his pound of flesh and more from them. Unfortunately, once you have been in the group so, so long, only doing one thing, (distributing), it must be very difficult to find any other way to live.

What gets me is how Dave bangs on about how we are all backsliders and have lost our idealism and lost our relationship with God by leaving the group. Then why does he totally reject his own daughter and her family who have decided freely to adopt an even more radical and ascetic lifestyle than them, including handing out Christian leaflets, but apart from the group?

Dave, I know you are reading this, your curiosity and narcissism will make sure of that! Nobody could ever describe you as warm, compassionate, genorous, gentle and kind. You forsake all of this, ruthlessly, even your family, in a constant battle to be righteous.

Dave, you need healing for the beatings your father gave you. You have been abused too. You need to accept the love of God and know you can never be perfect, but God really does love you too, just as you are! We have turned away from the "righteousness" of the Pharisees and towards the love of God and our neighbour. The biggest thread in the story of ex members is that of loving our children, having kindness in our families and with our friends, with so much real love that many have adopted children.

I am not talking about false grace here, of a magic prayer that takes you to heaven, but of the true grace of unconditional, expansive, tolerant, accepting love. I am talking about true relationships with our nearest and dearest, and also a wider circle of all humanity.

Your group will die with you. Your bitter confused vasectomised followers will scatter as the wind. But the true, unconditional, gentle love we show our children will continue, generation upon generation, for eternity.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: November 02, 2006 07:21AM

David McKay, the cult leader, can be assured that I will not delete or edit anything else that I have written. He has had his time dancing in the shadows.

Snuggles, I agree with what you say about him needing to be exposed. In time something may happen from closer quarters. It has been considered. It is difficult for people to stand up to him because some equate him with the voice of God, or are concerned that doing so will push him over the edge creating a Waco scenario. The fact is, he IS being exposed now. Behind the scenes he is ranting about doors closing to him. The doors are closing to him, and he hates it.


Free of DM said:
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Apo read between the lines ! ' this could have been avoided'
I figure MISTER D is already covering his own crooked back and spilling his mouth out to some authority and he will blame you 4 it.
Well if so, MR D would lov to wreck any endships with his son n and divide you all up and control you.

Yes, there is a pattern of him doing the deed and blaming others for it.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: Dave McKay ()
Date: November 02, 2006 07:53AM

Cultmalleus wrote:
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Dave, you need healing for the beatings your father gave you. You have been abused too. You need to accept the love of God and know you can never be perfect, but God really does love you too, just as you are! We have turned away from the "righteousness" of the Pharisees and towards the love of God and our neighbour. The biggest thread in the story of ex members is that of loving our children, having kindness in our families and with our friends, with so much real love that many have adopted children.

Thank you for those positive comments, Cultmalleus. Please do try to stay positive in whatever you do.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: November 02, 2006 07:53AM

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cultmalleus
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Don't worry muppet, im still here, been reading the posts; really good to welcome Gladitzover, Snuggles, Freeofdm and others;

Really good to see you again Cultmalleus.

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A lot of us still have "flashbacks" to our time in the group; god it takes a long time to deprogram. It's hard because most of us were and still are very idealistic and this was exploited by Dave for his own ends, with enough stuff that actually was idealistic mixed in to keep us in the group, all the while sucking us deeper and deeper into his vortex. Most of us also lacked a positive father role model in our lives, and Dave appeared to provide this for us.

You have done a great job. Thanks for your honesty in sharing your experience since leaving the JC's. I too had a phase where I had to regain the ground that had been taken through the clever play on words and twisting of the Bible to justify illegal activities. I now see what that period of my life was. It was a time when I allowed myself to be swayed by the faulty reasoning of a cult leader, and the peer pressure of a convinced group of cult members. Like Milgrims psychological experiment I succumbed to a perceived authority figure. It certainly was a good object lesson, and one that I never want to repeat.

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I was really sad to see Rols and Sue and Daniel rejoin, one would have thought Dave had extracted his pound of flesh and more from them. Unfortunately, once you have been in the group so, so long, only doing one thing, (distributing), it must be very difficult to find any other way to live.

I found Dave to be particularly disturbing when Rols first left the community in Africa. Dave made it seem like he was being gracious to Rols by allowing his wife and son to leave with him for "support". He has got a pound of flesh from them literally in the form of a kidney and then some, as Sue has also given up some of her eggs.

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Your group will die with you. Your bitter confused vasectomised followers will scatter as the wind. But the true, unconditional, gentle love we show our children will continue, generation upon generation, for eternity.

I completely agree with this sentiment.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: cultmalleus ()
Date: November 02, 2006 08:44AM

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Thank you for those positive comments, Cultmalleus. Please do try to stay positive in whatever you do.

Your welcome. I do. I would hope you might allow your wife to have unconditional contact with her children. That would be a positive step. We can choose to end generational abuse, with our own children.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: muppet ()
Date: November 02, 2006 09:43AM

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cultmalleus
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Thank you for those positive comments, Cultmalleus. Please do try to stay positive in whatever you do.

Your welcome. I do. I would hope you might allow your wife to have unconditional contact with her children. That would be a positive step. We can choose to end generational abuse, with our own children.


And stop messing around with the lives of other people and their children!

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