Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: May 04, 2008 03:15PM

I see that after my contribution exposing Dave as the serial slanderer
he accuses a Quaker named David Lowe of being, Dave has changed the
title of his current rant with a long post that supposedly tables the
"evidence" that proves David Lowe is Private Eyes.

It is very brave of Kate to risk the wrath of Dave in setting the
record straight.

When one follows Dave's advice to "pay close attention... to hear stuff
that has not hitherto been revealed" his case boils down to the claim
that David Lowe attended a seminar Dave expected P.E. to attend and sat
in the vicinity of Kate. At best this was a spurious argument with
enough holes to park a JC bus in, but thanks to Kate, even that claim
is reduced to either a bold faced lie or an insignificant nothing.

When Dave first asserted that I was Tony, I asked "How do you know
that I am Tony". He claimed this amounted to a confession and said if
he got it wrong I was responsible for not protesting harder. But when
I, and his son did object, we were both banned from Dave's forum where
he explained that this was necessary because we were about to fabricate
evidence to prove him wrong. How does one reason with such blind
ethnocentric reason?

He claimed to have other compelling evidence which he did not want to
make public, but which he used to convince his members who became
uncomfortable with the awful things he was saying against someone who
was a valuable asset to the community for almost a decade and who has
maintained a respectful silence ever since. Clearly it would not hold
up to cross examination, and one can only assume he had cobbled
together false assumptions and half truths to make his cause plausible
to a sympathetic audience.

Dave is doing the same here, lining up what appears to be another
gentle soul to obsessively target, suggesting that he has secret
information garnered from Private Eyes' computer which he says he can't
table openly lest he be criticised for the methods he used in obtaining
it. But, like the long public reply telling the world he does not
have time to reply to a letter he received from the Quakers, Dave
proceeds to leak the information he has while implying he has other
more sensitive information. I reckon if he had the proof he would
present it.

So, what does he actually say?

When you get through the long-winded build up Dave admits that the
letter from Private Eyes "only referred to himself as Private Eyes" and
nothing directly links David Lowe to that personna. So, whatever Dave
says about who Private Eyes is in contact with, and where he is
travelling to, has no direct relation to the claim that P.E. is David
Lowe. In fact, Dave admits his first reading of the letter resulted in
him asserting P.E. was Adrian Van Leen, or a direct relative (because
he is from Western Australia and the letter made reference to
travelling from that state), But now Dave tries to assimilate that with
the knowledge that David Lowe is actually from Queensland.

Dave says he and a posse of JC's staked out a meeting that he believed
P.E. was intending on attending and wrote down licence plate numbers of
those attending. (He wonders why Quakers are uneasy about Dave
bringing along his mob to meetings!). Dave assumes because P.E. was
from either Queenland or Western Australia he could not arrive in a car
bearing NSW plates, even though he told us that his letter indicated he
would be staying at a friends house in Sydney where he could have used
or been driven in their car. But one person arrives in a taxi, which
Dave claims makes him the only suspect, and even in Dave's account sits
some distance BEHIND Kate, which Dave reckons proves they are
connected, and that he is Private Eyes!

One would expect that someone who had travelled interstate to meet up
with someone who arrived independently, would exchange an enthusiastic
greeting. If that had occured you can be sure it would have featured
in the detailed account of Cherry's observations! It has been my
experience that the front rows are the last to fill in public venues
and so any late comer would find themselves forced to sit in the same
vicinity in the empty rows at the front, particularly if the JC sleuths
are occupying the back row!

So Dave might need to try a bit harder if he is going to convince ANY
court that he is justified in his vilification of some poor bloke
called David Lowe.

I also find it strange that Dave complains that he would be jumped on
by Quakers for either hacking into someone's computer file or getting a
snoop to gather such information, while he persists with the complaint
that some Quaker printed some stuff he found on the internet and shared
it with Friends. Dave has been claiming this material contained an
"unauthorised" statement "purporting" to be from from his son
"denouncing" him, when the information had to came from Dave's own
forum or the ABC's Australian Story Guestbook where his son was forced
to respond defensively to comments Dave made in an extended interview
denouncing his children for leaving him inexplicably to live a life of
self indulgence.

It's Dave's double standards, not his so-called evidence that is

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: barbiedoll ()
Date: May 04, 2008 04:16PM


First of all There has been private information posted about me on the JC forum. Not that i have written stuff about about you on here to get back at anyone, not at all. I was mearly pointing out what has been said. Seondly, you say you wanted to be my friend, yet all the emails and yahoo chat that you and i ever shared was shared with Dave. So how can we be "friends" if you involve a third person? and Lastly, you did say did you not that you were staying with a family friend? I did actually point out (if you read it) that you had said that you were not leaving the community only taking some time out from living in community.

Grace i think by you calling me un-christian just goes to show how much power Dave has over you. If you are as you say you are a Christian then you should not be judging me. Do i ever judge you? No i dont, i point out the facts without making any assumptions, whereas you (and by you i mean you and who you choose to associate with) make loads of judgements any everyone everyday.

I do not have to defend myself in regards to me being Christian.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: hello ()
Date: May 04, 2008 04:23PM

Yes Private Eyes makes a really good point. Grace/ Funkypunky G- why is it apalling that Kirstie published a private email- but Dave does that type of thing all the time- without criticism from you? Would you mind answering that here, I think we'd all wait eagerly for your reply.
I'm pleased that you're well.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: hello ()
Date: May 04, 2008 06:35PM


First of all There has been private information posted about me on the JC forum. Not that i have written stuff about about you on here to get back at anyone, not at all. I was mearly pointing out what has been said. Seondly, you say you wanted to be my friend, yet all the emails and yahoo chat that you and i ever shared was shared with Dave. So how can we be "friends" if you involve a third person? and Lastly, you did say did you not that you were staying with a family friend? I did actually point out (if you read it) that you had said that you were not leaving the community only taking some time out from living in community.

Grace i think by you calling me un-christian just goes to show how much power Dave has over you. If you are as you say you are a Christian then you should not be judging me. Do i ever judge you? No i dont, i point out the facts without making any assumptions, whereas you (and by you i mean you and who you choose to associate with) make loads of judgements any everyone everyday.

I do not have to defend myself in regards to me being Christian.

Hi Barbiedoll,
I hope you don't mind me defending you. Grace, BD is a lovely, warm person- who is extremely caring and earnest in her faith. She was hurt that things she chose to share with you- YOU- not the community- but just you- were passed on to Dave. She never said that you had left the community- but were just staying with a family friend.
Kirstie cares about you- and Sue. She didn't have a bad word to say about either of you- just that it is her opinion- an opinion I wholeheartedly share that being in Dave's community isn't a positive thing.
Really Grace, I have always loved you. Your youth, vigour and idealism - and your charming feistiness have always made me laugh delightedly. It's a pity that instead of finding out all of the facts- you cut yourself off from people. I believe that's my first ever criticism of you- and surely isn't as devastating as being labelled un- Christian.
I really wish you'd come over to the UK. I believe that if you spent a couple of days with me and a couple of days with Kirstie- we'd be true solid friends. My heart and home are always open to you- as I'm sure, are Kirstie's.
Anyway Grace, I believe that one day when we're in The Kingdom Of Heaven, you'll be able to see the amount of people that loved and cared for you- and the times they were thinking of you with affection.
Kirstie has said nothing insulting about you. You on the other hand have labelled her un- Christian and deemed her behaviour ' appalling'. You decided to do this publicly.
As those of us outside your community are aware- you're being told lots of things that aren't true. Our efforts to let you know that result in us being ' marked for division'- which isn't a teaching of Jesus's. Are you so sure that you're the righteous one - while the rest of us are sinners?
Lots of love,

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: barbiedoll ()
Date: May 04, 2008 06:40PM

Thank you Franky for defending me, What you say is true.

Grace i would be very happy to open up my home to you, as i would Sue. I am sure that we could have been friends. But when trust is broken it is hard to get it back.

I will pray for you my sister.

Love Kirstie

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: May 04, 2008 09:10PM



Media coverage all over the world seems to be quite good at the

We have been flooded with requests for help from people seeking
kidney donors, as a result of two reports in the U.S. (one in Boston
and one in Miami) in which we were referred to as "The Kidney Club".
If any of our readers would like to donate to a stranger, we would be
happy to put you in touch with someone, since we're fresh out of
kidneys ourselves at the moment!

Media coverage in the U.K. has alternated between reports on Ash's
donation to Sandi in Cyprus, and the freegan work that our teams are
doing there. Alf and Ash appeared on "This Morning" in the U.K. and
burned a 20 pound ($50) note to illustrate how people become
seriously concerned over the destruction of a worthless piece of
paper while turning a blind eye to literally millions of dollars
worth of good clean food being bulldozed into landfill.

Here in Australia, three different television networks are working on
features about the sort of things that we are doing, including one
feature being prepared for Foxtel in the U.S.

A further installment of the "Australian Story" report on Ash's
efforts to donate a kidney to Sandi will be appearing on Monday
evening, May 5, on the ABC in Australia.


Sadly, Australian Quakers are about to make history by expelling Dave
from membership, in the first such heresy trial in the history of the
movement in Australia, and all because of an ABC-TV report that never
even mentioned Quakers!

Dave has been sent a notice informing him that if he doesn't get
clearance from the society for virtually everything that he does
which might cause embarrassment to the society, then they are going
to ask that he be excommunicated, and they will do so this month.
You can read about it here:




Our West Coast U.S. team (Jesse, Simon, and Grace) has linked up with
a friend we have nicknamed Zero Currency Man (because he has not used
money for more than six years), who is introducing them to new ways
of surviving in a society that believes money is the answer to
everything and that it is impossible to live without it. Travelling
interstate in empty freight cars is just one of the new experiences
they have been having with ZCM, who alternates between living in a
cave in Utah and a tree house in Oregon.

Meanwhile, the East Coast U.S. team has moved from New England, back
down to North Carolina.


Fran and Kim took a short break in Nairobi last month, in order to
get some well deserved rest. However, after just a couple of weeks
in Nairobi, they felt a leading to leave the area and return to our
work in Western Kenya. And just as well too, for shortly after they
left, there were some uprisings between various factions in the area
where they were staying and a shopkeeper was beheaded on the street
just outside where they had been staying.

A report from Christine on the political unrest in Kenya appears at
the end of this newsletter.


Half the U.K. fleet of vans have now been converted to using 100%
vegetable oil, in an effort to be more environmentally and
economically friendly. We are opposed to the large-scale farming of
crops to be used for ethanol fuel (because it will take from the
great need for food crops in much of the world), but we understand
that enough vegetable oil is thrown out from fast food shops to power
thousands of vehicles, if the drivers are only prepared to make the
effort to filter it before adding it to their tanks.


Ash and Alf have just finished producing an MP3 CD version of
"Listening" to go with the MP3 CD of "Survivors". It includes a
selection of hard-hitting songs as well as an audio version of the


Fran was invited to be the guest soloist at a big youth conference in
Kenya during the month. In addition to performing numerous items
during the course of the convention, he helped to distribute hundreds
of "Peace in Kenya" T-shirts, which were popular amongst the youth.

More than 2,000 T-shirts were distributed at several youth
conferences attended by volunteers from Takatifu ("Holy") Gardens.
The T-shirts are hand-printed by volunteers staying at the compound.

The youth at the conferences particularly appreciated a new Swahili
rap song that is based on Jesus' rebuke of Peter, telling Satan to
depart from him. Fran also participated in a music competition as an

One of the conferences was hosted by the church that Daniel Moi, the
former president of Kenya, attends. Moi appeared (complete with
bodyguards) for part of the conference.


Workshops for the Alternatives to Violence Project have continued at
our volunteer centre. They include both basic and advanced courses.
Participants have included internally displaced people, teachers, and
assorted youth. Dozens of participants (those who had to travel far)
stayed at the centre and enjoyed the workshops as well as the evening
activities, which included singing, games and devotionals. Giddy
completed the advanced course and was invited by the organizers to
train as a facilitator. He has now completed his training and has
started helping to facilitate workshops at Takatifu Gardens.


There is a new article on our web site on global warming. You can
see it at:



New topics on the forum include a discussion on whether or not
everyone has an immortal soul:


Should Christians wear jewelry?


The Apophis Asteroid:


Discussion about your favorite music videos and performers:


Contrasts between anarchism and fascism:


and more comparisons by Fran of similarities between Jesus Christians
and early Quakers:


Below are some of Christine's comments on the situation in Kenya at
the moment:


Politically things have improved in Kenya. It was a bit touch and go
with forming the new power-sharing cabinet as extremists from both
camps were pushing the two leaders into hardline positions. But
eventually the two leaders got together away from their constituents
and came up with an agreement. In order to get enough people into
the cabinet to satisfy everyone, they had to increase the number of
ministries from 24 to 40. These cabinet ministers get paid a lot of
money (more than in western countries), so there was a bit of outrage
in some quarters about what that would cost the taxpayers; but
overall people were happy that a power-sharing agreement had been
made and civil war has been averted. Currently peace talks are still
continuing, to try to deal with some of the underlying reasons why
violence broke out (like land disputes) but the talks have lost
a bit of momentum and not as much is happening there as it should.

Despite the improvement politically there has been a lot of violence
between the government and various militia groups. The military went
into Mount Elgon (where the Sabaot Land Defence Force is) and started
attacking young Saboat men and bombing people from helicopters.
(It's a guerilla organisation so it's hard for the military to know
who's involved and who's not). No media were allowed into the area
(and were jailed if they dared to try to sneak in) so it seems they
had something to hide.

A lot of people have been tortured and have disappeared (presumably
killed). There are several hundred torture victims in a jail in the
Mount Elgon area. The military blames the jail for the torture and
the jail says the victims arrived that way. Everyone knows it was
the military, but no-one is being made to account for it.

Then there is the Mungiki, the Kikuyu secret society, which during
post-election violence organised attacks and evictions of western
Kenyans in retaliation for what was being done to Kikuyus. The
Mungiki leader is in jail, but the government had agents watching
other significant Mungiki leaders, including the wife of the main
leader. Somehow, despite the surveillance, the leader's wife and her
driver were assassinated.

The Mungiki immediately accused the police/government of doing it.
The government claimed it was the result of in-fighting amongst
Mungiki. So Mungiki decided to do a show of unity and declared a
general strike in Kikuyu areas. It was very effective and did cast
doubt on claims from the government that Mungiki were suffering from
in-fighting. The strike went on for a few days, and anyone who
didn't comply with the strike was at risk of violence from Mungiki
youth. It only stopped when the leader in jail called an end to the

A shop owner, who refused to honour the strike, was beheaded on the
very corner where Fran and Kim had been staying earlier in the month.

The price of food is continuing to rise, because so much food was
destroyed in the post election violence and because many people were
not able to plant

Being school holidays, we have more volunteers than usual. It's
nice having some of the older orphans back on deck, as well as some
guys we met through the Easy English project.

A four year old orphan boy named Valentine stay with us for a month
(to get proper nursing care) while he recovered from an operation on
his hands. We all grew a bit attached to him while he was here.

"Progress" has come to our local markets. Motorbike taxis (called
piki-pikis) have arrived and are in competition with the bicycle
taxis (boda-bodas) and matatus. It's sad in a way, as the piki-pikis
will put some of the boda bodas and matatus out of business.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: May 05, 2008 07:25AM

I must say that Grace,

Was prepared to post in a "hostile environment" so I will credit her for that (....although you DIDN'T have your posting "doctored" by Rick Ross did you Grace, nor have you written to then find you post “neutered” and thus you’ll understand why I DON’T post on the JC site….)…however as hear so rarely from Grace, I hope that she’ll pardon me for responding in minute detail.

I just have a few things to say in response to all that has transpired in the last month, even though you have all moved on to other ridiculous speculations. I want to establish that I have not left the community, I am currently still with the West Coast team and that it doesn't matter that Ash and I have not written anything on the forum in a while. Have you ever been a little too busy to spend time on the internet, or ever wanted a break from anything?

Yes, I've wanted to be able to take a break from having to hear about David McKay predations on people like yourself for some decades and would love to be able to hope that he would discontinue ....but before I move onto to some other ridiculous speculation, would you mind if I addressed your remarks in some detail

And to Kirstie, I am very sad that you have decided to take refuge in a group of people who do not act Christian.

You Grace, associate with a group of people who illegally whip volunteers (provide me the name and contact details of the young man in Kenya and the "waiver" he signed, if you'd like to put that to the test!), who in desperation, organ harvest for publicity (deliberately self promote yourselves, "hospital shop" to avoid accurate psychological profiling, and by your admission lying to medical authorities where necessary to be able to do so)who purposely estrange family and friends, in order to circumvent access to "readings" of scripture (or any external opinion), that might threaten David's prostitution of the selected "proof texts"....(Are you busy "spoiling Egypt" too Grace, as David famously stole from his time in the Children of God?)....Please DO NOT repeat David's simian tactics of "labelling" his critics, with intentionally, demeaning language such as "unChristian".

I do respect the fact that you do not want to associate with us anymore, that's fine. But I assume that you still consider yourself a Christian, and so I do not respect, at all, the behavior that you have displayed since deciding against working with the JCs.

Kirstie has expressed dissatisfaction with the management and practices of the JesusChristians. Your response is to "condemn" (you do not "respect") her for expressing thus opinion. You provide NO reason why her assessment is anyway inaccurate. You thus merely criticize her for expressing opinions that differ from yours, from a situation where you have no independent income, personal resources or access to external private communication outside of the approval of David McKay…..ergo, you ARE in a cult, Grace!!

I think it is appalling that you display our private emails for all to read, and that you told everyone my personal business (not to mention the personal business of the community).

The utter hypocrisy of the influence of David McKay upon Grace is here for the world to see. David McKay open flaunts on the JC site the information that he has obtained by deception, "proving" that Private Eyes is David Lowe (never mind that the information DOESN’T prove what David wants it to prove…..the intent, behind the act was there…“mens rea” (Guilty mind).

Let me leave you with the easiest "ridiculous speculation" of all to refute Grace.

I speculate that David McKay is guilty of the crime of Interception. That he, without consent, illegally accessed electronic documents, (hacking, passport can elicit the sordid details yourself, Grace) for the sole purposes of gaining advantage, over another.

Don’t let me remain “appalled” Grace…please just explain how the documents in concern somehow “leaked”…now that you have brought up the matter of probity and good faith, if you fail to account for how David managed this..well, …..SILENCE IS COMPLICITY!!...isn’t it!!

I wish that we could still be friends, but it doesn't seem that you want that.

No, Grace, it is YOU that doesn’t want to…..under direction, no doubt!

I had a lot more to say, but have forgotten it, since it has taken me so long to actually reply to what I have read here. Good luck in labeling us a suicide cult.... that's pretty funny.

Reckless indifference is the legal term here Grace. Please explain how Roland contracted Typhus during the stunt in India where he and others ate from a table located in a an open sewer. Why might Roland have possibly been led to act so recklessly, do you think? (Surely not another of the usual attention seeking stunts!).

As you and the other disciples are ultimately nothing more than cannon fodder in his eyes, Grace, David fails to exercise any reasonable duty of care in relation to may choose to try to "waive" that responsibility in order to prevent any liability falling upon your Lord and Master however that won’t prevent the operation of any relevant criminal statute. Do remember, won't you Grace, Res ipsa loquitur (the matter speaks for itself...and inference of negligence can sometimes be inferred from the mere fact that an injury was sustained...let alone in consequence from following the specific instructions received from on high, the self-nominated Mr McKay)....

No-one starts off as a “suicide cult”…they become such, after small beginnings as “a group of sincere people just trying to follow Jesus better”. You really must trying reading some of the writings of the erstwhile followers of Applewhite or Jones, who prior to the mass suicide described their leader in language much as you describe David. (He’s a “sincere and inspirational” man who just brings out the “best” in me)….the similarity of your description of (and relation to) David with their experiences are…. “pretty funny” (…if treating a subject with such sickening humour, amuses you!)

Oh, and Brian, I don't appreciate your snide request to have Dave "make" us stand up for ourselves.

I don't appreciate your snide message to Kristie here (you have left God by leaving us)....but more cogently perhaps, what about your snide dismissal of Vicki and her children....the loving Jesuschristians quietly threw her and her children out on the street with nothing, didn’t they?....and little Grace, just shrugged it off, and told herself that Vicki was never really "Christian" enough…hence it doesn’t matter.

You can of course easily disprove what I allege here Grace. Provide details of how Vicki was treated and copies of any “contracts” protecting her legal rights and guaranteeing her to a rightful share of the monies and chattels in possession of the JesusChristians at the time of her departure (Of course you did do that didn’t you Grace, otherwise you are simply party to theft. You are aiding and abetting Davids’ robbery of those whom he persuades to relinquish control of their possessions and lives to his “cause”). Vicki's contact details would also be necessary to verify your account of her departure.

I can remember why and a lot of others become involved with David McKay originally, Grace. We hoped to find a Christianity far closer to the ideals that we would have believed that Christ stood for..hopefully they are some of the reasons that might have prompted you to join....It was sad to realize that there was NO fault in the established Church (Hypocrisy, Dishonesty, Greed, Lust for power) that David McKay hadn't failed to replicate in his own self-idolatory publishing agency, frequently in far more an insidious form than was ever found inside a major Church. As a "Christian" Grace, you'll be familiar with the scripture in Luke, that ..."The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say Lo here or Lo there.....the Kingdom of God is within you, it is NOT within the machinations and empire building of one David McKay.

It may take some time, but David will ultimately become remembered as another “Joseph Fritzl”….and the individuals whose lives he damaged, keeping them out of the light, trapped in the dungeon of his deceit, all those years, will be his final “legacy”…

..but you know, I kinda wonder Grace...

Will you be remembered as a victim….. or an accomplice?

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Blackhat ()
Date: May 05, 2008 06:14PM

Dave wrote, regarding his defamation of David Lowe:

"I think it would be wonderful if they turned out to be different people. It would save the Society of Friends a great deal of embarrassment, and vindicate an innocent man. Which is one reason why I cannot understand why neither David nor the Society is doing anything other than attacking me. Certainly, the very first step would be to contact me, get me and David Lowe together, and load me up with all of the information about how he is not and has never been a private investigator, about how he was only at the Louise Samways secret meeting by invitation because his son is a scientologist or whatever, and how it wasn't really him that was staying at Friends House, but some guy named Brown whom Nick Eyles mistook for David. There must be a ton of such corroborating evidence that they could produce to set me straight and get an apology from me for a horrific mix-up. I mean it would be terribly humiliating for me, but surely it would be worth it if they are really concerned about this poor innocent David Lowe guy!"


David got some information from a private message or email from Private Eyes, which a third party delivered to him. He and other Jesus Christians, including Ash, decided they would stake out the seminar where they thought Private Eyes would turn up. They were obviously in a high state of anticipation that they were going to see their quarry. They even took down number-plates! And then they saw someone who they recognised as a Quaker. Their paranoia about the Quakers was running high. They expected to see the person they were trying to identify.

As has happened in other cases, the combination of seeing someone from a group they were already paranoid about, and their expectation of seeing Private Eyes, magically manifested into seeing their quarry before their eager eyes, as they put it all together.

It reminds me of the lynch mobs in the American South in stories like "To Kill a Mockingbird", out looking for "that nigger"!

Unfortunately it defies Logic 1:01.

A "nigger" I don't know is going to come here.
There is a "nigger" I recognise.
The "niggers" are expressing disquiet about the way I go about things.
Therefore he is the "nigger" I am expecting.

Clearly with his Jesus Christian followers dedicating their time and high energy to this "stake-out", there was pressure on Dave to produce the goods. And so he did, and has been sticking to it since then to save his face. Despite it being in clear violation of Logic 1:01.

And so David took his "nigger" out and "tarred and feathered" him. On the internet. In a place the "nigger" didn't even know about.

David's whole argument about why he should not take down all these totally offensive, libellous and sinful accusations is that the innocent man will not meet him, on his terms, and "thrash it out".

He obviously has missed an enormous chapter in Quaker culture and history, despite being an American!

Quakers don't do that David! They are not like you and me and the other people who go and fight against others on the internet! That is Quaker 1:01!!!!! That's why I'm not a Quaker, and it's why you can't be one either!

You are acting like a school-yard bully, "tarring and feathering" an innocent man and saying he should defend himself on your terms to stop you.

Some Grandmas say you should ignore bullies. I think that's what the Quakers think, and I think that's probably what this man who is a long serving Quaker thinks. He clearly doesn't want to enter your arena, and has said so by paying a lawyer to ask you to stop.


In recent days you have had:

The statement on the Quaker web site

Cait's testimony on this forum
(she did so very bravely, given that she and Ash are only just resuming contact)

Doubts and questions on your own forum

Let me give you some more food for thought:

1. The man you were waiting for was on a Private Investigation mission. You say he had flown to Perth and then to Sydney. Yet the man you saw turned up with a woman you presumed was his wife. Does a Private Investigator take his wife on that kind of trip? Or does that profile better fit a man who was in Sydney anyway to attend a family matter, like a wedding or a funeral?

2. You know that the reason Zeuszor published my email name was because Private Eyes told him he was suspicious of me. So it's because of Private Eyes that I was "outed". Do you think I would now go to these lengths to defend the innocent man if he really was Private Eyes? Or do you think I might have been given a confidence so convincing that I know you have greviously and sinfully "tarred and feathered" an Innocent Bystander?

Please take some time to reflect upon this matter on your sojourn into discovering inner peace.

Cherry, I pray that you, too, will read what I have written with an open and loving heart, and bear good witness to your husband in this matter, knowing that I am being faithful in what I write .

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: May 05, 2008 07:25PM

Brilliantly put, Blackhat!

If may attempt to add a little to your remarks (quoting once again the writings of David, you have furnished....)

Certainly, the very first step would be (for the Quakers) to contact me, get me and David Lowe together, and load me up with all of the information about how he is not and has never been a private investigator....David McKay (see above)

NO David, that would be the last step...

No-one, not the Quakers, nor David Lowe nor any other party is obliged in any respect to meet you or to provide you with any evidence You are OBLIGED to cease your unfounded accusations WITHOUT your whims being pandered to in the slightest......You do not "win" the right to information or co-operation by rashly slandering the innocent. (You Do though "win" the distinction to identified as the manipulative and dishonest individual that you are, the anti-thesis of the Quakers themselves, though your very own undisguised malice.)

As has been stated previously, Jus ex injuria non oritur, is an accepted legal priniciple that "No right arises out of wrong doing"...your scurrilous character assassination of David Lowe (in keeping with your general strategy of denigrating any critics with baseless smear campaigns) DOES NOT entitle you to more "consideration"...on the contrary, much less...while it is clearly difficult for you to understand this, outside of your little 25 person universe, no-one is obliged to kowtow to your tantrums and childish demands....

Obviously the quote we have from you, courtesy of Blackhat, is a patently obvious attempt to deceive the Quakers into parting information, that would better identify Private Eyes. The Quakers are not in an "embarrassing situation" (and are not going to be duped by your heavy handed duplicity into thinking that they are), nor do they need to show "concern" for Mr Lowe, by inadvertently giving you the details you seek. You David though, are in a shameful position.

However, I will take note of the one small flaw in Blackhats observations, about David's comments. I feel that Blackhat failed to give David sufficient credit, for the one material fact that he has succinctly foreseen. David was of course accurate when he stated that he stated that he would ultimately be "terribly humiliated".

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: May 06, 2008 05:15AM

Dave speaking derogatively of someone who lives by faith See: []

I should add that Suelo has also had pretty good communication with his family while living his bizarre lifestyle.

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