Delightful! It makes me so happy to know that we might be getting through to some of them. The news of Vicki and her children makes it all worthwhile for me. This is all such good news. Thanks everybody.

This looks very interesting to me and I might just have to buy it soon. You all might think so too.

[www.heavensgatemovie.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2008 10:30AM by zeuszor.

I seem to be running into the JC's a lot lately- I almost physically bumped into Sue yesterday in Brixton- she was handing out the Listening novels. Last week I saw Ulrike and Roland - and I briefly spoke to Ulrike who was very sweet.
With regards to what Apostate was saying, that it is Dave's community- I agree. When I spoke to Ulrike she asked me why I wouldn't take a book- and I had to say ' that I don't like David McKay'- she answered - ' well, you know- I'm part of his community'.
That says it all really.
( Not to make a big deal of it- but I hope- if you're reading this Ulrike- that you take care of the crucifix - even though it's from me! lol- it really is fantastic for getting Jesus's message across to children and has been really helpful to me- I hope you have as much fun with it as I have.xx)

It seems that the conflict between the Religious Society of Friends and the Jesus Christians is coming to a head:

[welikejesus.com]

It seems clear to me that membership of the Jesus Christians is fundamentally incompatible with membership of the Quakers. The bizarre, dogmatic beliefs and practices of Jesus Christians seem the antithesis of the Quaker Way. Similarly, the sneering hatred regularly expressed by certain Jesus Christians on their forum seems the antithesis of the positive, loving attitude to people that the Quakers promote.

I can well understand why an organization widely perceived as a cult would want to cloak itself in the mantle of Quaker respectability, to try and achieve a legitimacy, respectability and credibility that seems quite undeserved. David McKay goes on at great length about the supposed injustice of it all, but surely it's up to the Quakers to decide whether or not the beliefs and actions of some of its members are fundamentally incompatible with the true principles of Quakerism? If that's their conclusion, they're entirely justified in expelling all Jesus Christians and making it abundantly clear that there are no connections whatsoever between the two organizations.

Quote
barbiedoll

One can make a difference and one can do that without being a jesus christian. It is possible you know to be a "real" Christian without being so angry at the world.

What you've written is both compassionate and profound. Again, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Only God gets to choose who the " real" Christians are. David has no say in the matter whatsoever.xx

Dear All,

Something that would interest me (if others are at all of the same view, I would welcome some private correspondence) would be look towards producing some "Easy English" biblical stories of our own....David vainly thinks that his effort is "world class", but after a decades experience, and some relevant qualifications in this area, my opinion would be that even among only a few of us, that we could fairly effortlessly just "blow him away"......the actual quality of what he writes is very, very ordinary.

It would be a real pleasure to under-cut David's prices (...didn't he say that he only ever produced things out of "love"....lets put that to the test, shall we!!!) with something considerably bigger and better....and what a positive thing that would be to do (unlike all the "embittered negativity" of the "nay-sayers" on the JC site!!)!!

Does anyone know what David's "distribution channels" are?

Malcolm,

The JC allegedly distribute their books through Quaker Schools in Kenya. It is said to be their "cash cow", with multi thousands of books being sold for an average cover price of US $ 1. You might understand why they might be keen to retain their Quaker links. Without the help of the Quakers, the Jesus Christians member's travel might have to revert back to foot. Like it was in your good old days.

However, Dave has thought of everything and must have forseen your evil intentions. The following words appear inside "The Ugly Little Duck":

Quote: "Look for the name "McKay" on Easy English books to know if they are true 'Easy English' Books".

I'm only kidding about your evil intentions, but totally serious about the above quote. However, it does indicate that he is afraid of competition and perhaps being undercut, so you might be on to something. After all, what reputation are you trying to beat? Isn't it only 30 or 25 (the numbers seem to fluctuate) people who are sufficiently aroused by his books to want to distribute them?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2008 01:33PM by private eyes.

Australian Quakers have published a statement regarding David Lowe on their national home-page:

[quakers.org.au]

If David and Cherry McKay's membership of the Religious Society of Friends is terminated, some other questions arise.

How many other Jesus Christians are Quakers and will their membership be reviewed? And what are the implications for Kenya?

If any of the JC 'foot soldiers' are doing genuinely Christian work in Kenya, it would be a shame to see that stopped. But on the other hand, the Quakers run the risk of massive reputational damage if they're perceived as being connected to an organization generally perceived as being a cult that preys predominantly on vulnerable young people - especially (given the accusations of pedophilia) where it's believed the organization concerned is an offshoot of The Family/Children of God.

First let me re-state that I am NOT a Quaker, and anything I say does not represent them.

As far as the Quakers are concerned, I know that they are very careful and take a long time to make any statements about anything. Things have to go through “clearness meetings” and consensus has to be reached after much contemplative consideration.

A poster called Private Eyes has made many postings on this forum. David McKay has convinced himself that Private Eyes is a man called David Lowe, a Quaker from Queensland.

David has written pages and pages of accusatory statements on his web-site against this man, and maintains his position on the identity of Private Eyes. Obviously this Quaker man, David Lowe, has been informed of the slander posted on the internet about him, and has paid some money to send David a lawyers letter requesting that he desist. Now we all know how much that would cost a private individual innocently caught up in the web that David has woven! What ordinary worker who dedicates themselves to Quaker Life has that kind of money?

Every time Private Eyes writes something, David McKay responds by attacking David Lowe and the Quakers. He (McKay) claims he has some “top secret” proof that David Lowe is Private Eyes. Apart from seeing him at a Louise Samways seminar in Sydney, there doesn’t seem to be anything to back up his theory that he is David Lowe.

Imagine that! You go to a seminar because you are in Sydney anyway (maybe to attend a wedding or a funeral and it might be interesting) and suddenly your name is all over a web-site with all kinds of accusations! Talk about victimization!

Now the Quakers, after all their lengthy due processes, have posted the statement on their web site. They know David Lowe really well, as he has served on committees for many years, and they are aware of the kind of person he is, whether he is an internet buff, whether he has a background in any kind of investigation, whether he is even up to anything like the postings we see from Private Eyes. And they have made their considered statement, and published it right up there on the front of their web site.

David McKay worked out who I was good and proper, and posted all the proof he had.

Now I challenge him to post his proof about this man who he claims is Private Eyes! He posts everything else he knows, so why does he shy away from posting his proof that David Lowe is Private Eyes? Why is he suddenly shying away from “Publishing the Truth”?

I believe that he has no other proof of his accusations about an “Innocent Bystander” (to quote Leunig), and is committing a grievous sin against an innocent man who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Which would lead David McKay to a question he doesn't seem to want to face.....well, then, who the hell IS Private Eyes???? Much easier to post libel about an innocent man than to admit you can't work that out!

It's easier to shoot the bunny in your gun-sight than the fox you can't outwit, eh David?

If David McKay can’t provide the evidence, then I believe he should take down all posts referring to this man, and publish an unconditional apology.

To put it bluntly, in a most un-Quakerly way, either put-up or shut-up!!!!

Just to let everyone know- the boy I ran into a little while ago was Joe- not Joel. So he's here in the UK- or at least he was a week and a half ago.

When looking at the JC's we have to remember that they have all had their will broken. To me they all share characterisics of abused children in a controlled environment. The fact that all emails are shared through the community not only undermines individuals autonomy- but a person's right to privacy and independent thought/ action.

One of a persons basic rights is to act and be an individual. The developmental tasks of this right are the a) realization of separateness and b) establishment of autonomy.

The abuses of this right are ( according to Anodea Judith- my favourite clinical psychologist):
Shaming
Bullying
Authoritarianism
Volatile situations
Domination of will
Physical abuse, dangerous environment, fear of punishment
Enmeshment
Age inappropriate responsibilities ( parentified child)
Inherited shame from parent

All of these abuses take place in the JC community.