Barbiedoll- you rock! It isn't until you've been on the receiving end of DM's lies and manipulation that you can truly understand why we are so concerned for the members of his cult- and the others that may innocently happen across them.
And it's so difficult and frustrating. A couple of days ago I ran into someone called Joel- handing out DM's books. Like all the young JC's he seemed like a really lovely and sincere person. My heart sank- I couldn't really say anything to him because he would already have heard how I was a mentally ill stalker etc. All I could do was introduce myself, smile and wave him goodbye.
The bigger and more outlandish the threats Dave and co make against you- the bigger the threat they regard you. I'm sure you'll do nothing but speak the truth- you have all of mine and many others support. I hope you get in touch BD- perhaps it's vanity- but I'd love you to get to know me through your own eyes rather than the JC's. Not that it's ever probably been mentioned- but I was supportive of them for much longer than you. When Roland got himself mixed up with the whole Betty situation - I even tried to arrange supportive media coverage for them. I was as friendly with the JC's as you were. It took me a while to understand that something much darker happens underneath- and that's what makes them a cult. I mean, you've met several of their members- do you think any of them will do the right thing- call Dave up on his lies and defend you- they won't. You'll just be the latest person to ' betray' them and Jesus.
Anyway lots of love- hope you get in touch.xx

Why thank you Hello!

It actually saddens me when i think about the UK team, as they were the ones that i got to know the best. Only some of them mind you, Roland i dont feel so sorry for! Sue on the other hand i loved dearly and in some way i still do, i think of her as a sister and we became very close,,, well i thought we did anyway and i do miss the relationship we shared.

What i dont miss though are the teachings, they were very scary in fact they were that scary that i had a burning session where i burnt every little thing i had in my house that belonged to them. So all the teachings books and crap "novels" that Dave wrote and any other stuff. It felt good and very realising.

I dont for one second that anything i say is going to make the members of the cult see that they are being duped but i do hope it will let the potential recruits realise. I was asked by Dave on his forum a while back now to not betray them, i also told Sue in a email that i would not, but actually what is betraying and what is showing the truth?

I trusted them with stuff and they have used that against me so why should i sit back and let him tell the world things about me and not do a thing? Its time the world knew what this man is like and i am happy to help show people. Not in vevenge but for real love for humanity.

Dear Barbiedoll,

If David McKay feels obliged to go to the trouble to speak falsely of you (at length), I'd personally wear that as a "badge of honour" for meritorious and distinguished service over and above the call of duty....

(...donc,...VOILA, Mademoiselle!....La Croix de Guerre!! Merci!!)...


I, too, have to admit to a major psychological disorder, in my past, that perhaps still casts doubts over me....(...I, ummm (gulp!)....I once believed David MacKay!!!!)


May I ask Barbiedoll, what is your opinion of the scriptural "proof-texts" that are still extant in the JesusChristians.....for example, in my day it was Luke 14:33 (So likewise whosoever he be of you, that forsaketh not all that he hath, cannot be my disciple) and the Acts 2: 44-5 (And all that believed were together, and had all things common, and sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need)....as well as the "hating your parents" exhortations, etc.....

While I presume these are still readily called upon to "prove" that David's empire is the Kingdom of God (as ONLY sincere they, REALLY obey the scriptures!!!).....

...and that the scriptures that might contextualize the application of these verses....(I Corinthians 13 and the Sermon on the Mount) are "explained away"....

(The "cornerstone" of Christ is realigned to better accommodate the teachings of David....!!) it appears to me, that scripture in general is far less prominently employed across the board by the JesusChristians these days.....they of course have now been recently advised by David that these days they only need to be "prepared" to follow Christ literally (...and in the meantime, following David literally will suffice!!!).

The Listening booklets (again regurgitated from the ideas he acquired from the Children of God with concepts stolen from the Quakers, and then deceitfully "sold" as his own?)....largely appear to avoid the scriptural rigour of the material we distributed in my day.......(the less "Jesus", the more "David" there can be of course.....!)

Would you say that is your impression too, or am I just looking at the past with simple fondness of my advancing years?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2008 08:30AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

David says that Ash and Grace are still with the JCs, right?

They have not posted anything at the forum there in quite a while. Perhaps DM could ask them to do so in order to establish this as a fact?

hi barbie
i just wondered why you're so against the jc. after your initial enthousiasm, what happened?
I was never involved with the jc but i met with dave, cherry, roland, sue,danny, reinhard for a couple of hours in a social way and i'm just curious what turned you against them.

Jason,

I have not "turned aginast them" i saw the truth. I started to listen to the teachings in a different way and could hear that most (not all) of what was being said was not through love. I heard Dave TELL his disiples how to behave and how they should live. Not just in emails but in the "teaching" books. Rols, Sue, Reinhard and especially Dann are really nice people, they all are from the Uk team, does that make what Dave teaches right? You are right i was really supportive of them and in my posts on the JC forum i just loved them, but that was before God opened my eyes to what was going on, or should i say i started to listen to what God was telling me all along?!

You know Jason, People appear really lovely and nice but that does not mean they are. I never found Sue to be nothing but nice until i "turned against" them. But now dave writes lies about me and do i see my friend (s) come to my defense? Of course i dont, and no before you say it im not bitter i am mearly popinting out what has happened. I see a community of people that live in a way that looks to be how Jesus taught, its not untill you go deeper that you see the cracks. Of course i know no church is perfect but thier church does not rum on love, rather anger... anger at the "Systemites" and the "churchies" at anyone that does not agree with them. So you see why i have now taken a step of faith of spoken out?

Malcolm,

Your question is a great one, and needs to be unpacked at greater legnth, i dont have the time right now as im off to church now. But please know that i will try to answer what you have said as best i can. I am discovering myself what it all means, i am questioning myself why do the JC "seam" to be living in accordance to Jesus' teachings, it does need more in depth looking at.

Bye for now

I've been away for a while but here in the US we've had a big scandal involving a cult called Yearning for Zion (part of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) and this has prompted me to re-engage.

Kirstie, my thoughts and prayers are with you. Standing up to a bully is always commendable.

Take heart though. Cult leaders aren't always as powerful as they like to pretend they are. Despite the bitter point-scoring hatred that's been written about you by certain people, a genuinely Christian poster on the Jesus Christian's forum (Jon USA) said about you "as Christians I still believe you should have compassion and love for her". Even poor old David McKay had to agree. Whether that was genuine sentiment or an embarrassed reaction to being called to account by a genuine Christian, I don't know, but I hope you'll draw some comfort from it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2008 05:08AM by Talamasca.

Thank you Talamasca!

May I ask the location (on which thread) I may find that quote? The JesusChristians (read those under the instructions of David McKay, who console themselves that somehow through it all that they are "Christians") could save themselves all this trauma (of having EVERYONE who leaves, become their critics) IF they chose to have an "exit clause" that permits dissatisfied members to leave with dignity (and in some financial integrity)....

Jason25 ....perhaps sums up the difficulties(arising from Davids self- fixations), when he asks Barbiedoll why she "turned on" the JesusChristians....emotive language that deliberately manipulates ones interpretation of events....and language that I presume Mr Jason25 has sourced from none other than one David McKay himself, perhaps from the very link you noted that David was obliged to take note of his "Christian duties"....

You are of course free to correct me here Jason25, but why did you not enquire for what cause, Barbiedoll LEFT the JesusChristians, or for what reason she DISCONTINUED membership....why did you describe her departure as having "TURNED ON" them?

David of course would have already described it as "turning on" her former Christian brothers and sister (a term that manipulatively "labels" Barbiedoll, and which you have inanely and unquestioningly, simply "lapped up") because he psychotically considers himself an "Apostle" of God, whose noble organization DEMANDS total acquiescent commitment from the "faithful"....hence to leave it, is "turn on" God himself.....and the use of language that dishonestly "labels" others is part of the PR spin.

(...and your "couple of hours" that threatened smilingly pleasant David not a whit, are somehow comparable with the experiences of others who spent YEARS giving their lives and all they owned to the community, that ultimately TURNED ON them, when they dared question David McKay....Visit your local Asylum sometime to discover how "nice" the criminally insane are, provided you choose to pander to them....)


Can any of the current members leave the JesusChristians, and EVEN fundamentally disagree with some of their practices, either within or without, them. If the answer is NO(as all current ex-members would testify), then they are absolutely a "CULT" in every sense of the word, dangerously and completely self-absorbed and then sickeningly obliged to DEMONIZE those leave, as such behaviour threatens the very neurosis that "sustains" them.....

Thank you Malcolm, i totally agree with you there. The number of times i heard Roland say that someone had "turned against them" therefore turning away from God... oh sorry i mean "backslide" is the term Dave uses. they would sayy it about anyone that questioned what was being taught, anyone who disagreed with them, and for anyone who showed the slightest bit of doubt that what was being said was true. Then they were labelled as "backsliders".

Again, i have not read what Dave has said about me, i refuse to stoop to his dirty level, but i imagine it is something along the lines of me turning on them. When of course you can see from my posts that i have not through insults nor have i lied about anyone or anything. I have told the truth and i believe i have done that with dignity. Dave on the other hand just plays his nasty little games.

So who is it that is turning away from God? Is the me the woman that acts with compassion and love as God says to do or is it the man who makes up lies about another person to better themselves? You decide!

But you do need to consider of course when making up your mind that i am a crazy woman with multiple personalities... wait who said that?!!! ;)

Love as always

Barbiedoll