Dave said:
"Let's start with the wheelchair. I was not even there. I don't think I ever met the boy or his mother. I was (I think) in Sydney, and they were in Melbourne. But I received an email saying that he was very badly behaved and that he would use the wheelchair like a weapon when he was having a temper tantrum, and drive it into people. I suggested that one option was to disconnect the battery (or at least threaten to do so) if he mis-used the wheelchair. You see, these are the kind of facts that are being left out of so much that Craig (Apostate) is writing over there, besides the fact that virtually EVERYTHING is written in the overall vein that anything ANYONE does in the group was actually ORDERED by me."

Let me jog your memory Dave. The boy was not using his chair as a "weapon" as you claim. He was in fact trying to get away from YOU, and it was on a day when the then community would jog around the block. It was outside the Geelong house on the footpath. Is your memory returning yet? You DID meet the mother as I remember her clearly tearing strips off you saying that what you had done was tantamount to cutting his legs off. YOU did it yourself in clear contravention of how the woman parented her child. She was horrified. Ross would remember this. This child would be unlikley to live till he was 18 due to the nature of his disease.

Dave again:
"Just before Craig left the community, I spoke to him very strongly about the chauvinistic way he related to his wife, and the way that he was teaching his son, Nathan, to speak to her. (That story about Nathan being "locked" in his room for refusing to say that he is a little boy, was one such incident, where Nathan was abusive to his mother and argued Craig's line, and he is a "big boy" and he can tell his mother anything he likes. Chris was saying to Nathan that he is a "little boy", and he needs to treat his mother with respect. So he was sent to his room. No need to "lock" him in, since he WAS a little boy, and he at least obeyed Christine.)"

Hmm, How stories change. I thought all us male ex JC's with Indian wives were being led astray by their wives, not much chauvinism at work there. You will have to come up with another one that lines up with past accusations I am afraid. Oh, and here's the thing Dave, if my 2 year old son was being abusive to his mother, telling her "anything he likes", it would have meant they were in the room together. This naturally raises more questions. If that was the case what was Christine doing taking the parental role of disciplining the child away from the mother?

Your response to my greivance is in fact quite revealing and validating of my claim that children ARE veiwed as communal property within the JC's with every Tom, Dick, Harry, or Christine thinking they can exercise parental authority over a child not their own.... which is actually worse. However the time I speak of, Christine did this when alone with Nathan.

And again:
"what I was saying was largely just a bluff, and we ended up purchasing a traditional white sari for Yesamma for the wedding, and the wedding was really a huge success, with relatively little spent on it."

It is interesting how you can use the "I was only bluffing" line of reasoning to justify abusive behaviour or direction you order people to submit to or do. The people under you are unaware of your little "bluff". If it is all just so much bluff then it means that you are deliberately testing individuals to see if they will obey. Where is the equality of relationship in this? It seems the more you say the more you reveal about how you operate.

Dave said regarding the Quakers:
"Now Cherry and I are about to become angry ex-members"

Don't worry Dave, I found that the anger subsides after a while. Although, I think the Quakers have done the right thing distancing themself from you. Not much fun being "marked" is it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2008 06:08AM by apostate.

Quote
zeuszor
So you advise me to quit praying for the situation and go get drunk.

I was offering some friendly relaxation suggestions Zeus. I did not say go and get drunk. Please ignore me.

Quote
apostate

Quote
zeuszor
So you advise me to quit praying for the situation and go get drunk.

I was offering some friendly relaxation suggestions Zeus. I did not say go and get drunk. Please ignore me.

Friend, I get the point. You are telling me to chill out. I would never ignore you, but that particular piece of advice I must reject.

"what I was saying was largely just a bluff, and we ended up purchasing a traditional white sari for Yesamma for the wedding, and the wedding was really a huge success, with relatively little spent on it."

It is interesting how you can use the "I was only bluffing" line of reasoning to justify abusive behaviour or direction you order people to submit to or do. The people under you are unaware of your little "bluff". If it is all just so much bluff then it means that you are deliberately testing individuals to see if they will obey. Where is the equality of relationship in this? It seems the more you say the more you reveal about how you operate.


Yep, he did it here, tried it on me, too.

Now, with regard to my threats to ask the producers to cancel your flight, Brian, that was total bluff. Why should we ask them to cancel your appearance when we were the people who asked for you to come in the first place. I was hoping to get you to admit to knowing David Lowe as a condition to coming, but it didn't work. Oh, well, we can't win them all!

[welikejesus.com]

Put in the key words "bluffing" or "bluff" through a search at the JC forum and see how many times it matches. Lots of times. He does love to use the "I was bluffing" line, huh? Almost as much as he likes to say that he decided to quit writing news and start making it. It's played out, David. But I guess an old dog cannot be taught new tricks, eh?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2008 11:28AM by zeuszor.

I was only bluffing

I was only joking

How often do we use these words to try to minimise or dismiss the wrong and hurtful things we say, but only when they are pointed out to us? We secretly hope we get away with it! And if it had worked out, we would have congratulated ourself for being so clever!

I have heard it said that in every joke, there is two-thirds truth intended (or words to that effect)

We often wish we had not said things we said, not because of the hurt we caused, but because we came unstuck.

To try to minimise or disown our wrongs by saying "I was only joking" or "I was only bluffing" is trying to escape the loophole of owning up to our own bad judgement or outright cruelty, and making the shame-faced apology which is due.

The ego tries to maintain the appearance of a good intention, or a gentle jest, in the face of correct judgement.

In my own life, I am trying to consider this more, and I think David McKay would do well to do likewise.

Zeuszor,

Congratulations on making the apology, rather than saying you were only bluffing or joking. Your explaination did not diminish the sincerity and honesty of your apology.

You are a better man for it.

Retirement speech folks!

(No, we won't go after any followers when you retire, because they will do as you command and re-write the teachings of the Jesus Christians in line with what Jesus taught, not what David Cult of Apocalyptic Personality COG McKay taught. There are many good hardworking talented people with a vision for a better world in this cult.)

David, thanks for this Retirement Speech, it means a lot:

"It's really getting more and more NECESSARY for people to just get on with making their own decisions (based on certain Christian principles), as Cherry and I get older and older, and become less and less actively involved in the community."

[welikejesus.com]

Well done, David, and enjoy your retirement on the pension.



...................followed by a strange statement:

"our critics are usually more interested in personalities than what we are. They actually CREATE this myth about a group of people who can't think for themselves"

WRONG!!!!!!!!!! We are actually REALLY interested in the personality, and have a GREAT faith in the group when they are free of your ego-driven, media-seeking, sensationalist attention-junkie dictatorial CULT OF PERSONALITY! (Living Colour reference, David won't get it.)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2008 04:00PM by Blackhat.

It gets a bit tedious having to defend myself against Dave's continual efforts to discredit his critics. Particularly, as I was trying to not post so often on the Rick Ross Forum and instead encourage ex members to have a greater say.

But here we go:

Once again I will state that I am not David LOWE. I Have never met him, nor have I spoken to him or written to him, to the best of my knowledge.

I am not, nor have ever been a Quaker.

I did not anonymously send an threatening email to a Father of a potential member. My suggestion to the potential member is that he draw the matter to the attention of the Victorian Police. Get a Police Incident report number and post it on the Jesus Christian website. I will respond to the Police, (based on that number) with information as to potential identity of the person most likely to be responsible. If the Police believe the matter to be valid, they can always request a search warrant to forensically examine the subject's computers.

In regards to claims that this same potential member's employer was contacted regarding use of his computer at work. The potential member should obtain a Statutory Declaration from his employer as to whether or not anyone reported him for having used his computer to make posts on the Jesus Christian website. I simply made a comment, that I wondered if the person was getting in trouble for such an act, in relation to a post they themselves made on the Jesus Christians website.

It should be pointed out that the potential member has been contacted several times to explain the truth regarding these spurious allegations still being made by Dave. To his credit, I have noticed that he has asked Dave not to infer, who may have done these things, so as not to falsely accuse innocent people.

I reject Dave's comment that I am posting "hateful" stuff. The majority of what I have posted is newspaper articles, quotes from newspaper articles, quotes from Dave's own writings and teachings and other information already in the public domain. I have also raised a number of questions and subjects that require further investigation.

I have not hired "a thug" in Kenya.

Dave's has made many "enemies" over the years and I would hazard a guess that anytime there are a number of people actively investigating him. In addition there are over 60 ex members of the Jesus Christians and their relations that may be pursuing matters concerning Dave. Unfortunately, Dave seems to blame everything that happens to him on a few select people. He is on very dangerous legal territory when he continues to state as fact, matters that he would be best to allege, if he even has to raise the matters at all.

Dave's time would be far better spent answering the various concerns raised and questions asked of him. Assisting his members to make contact with their families and practicing the Christianity that he likes to preach.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2008 06:24PM by private eyes.

Apostate - Quote:

"The Quakers should be warned to pick up any bibles Dave leaves behind when they are having meetings to look for a tape recorder inside like he used on the Uniting Church in Medowie, and like he did in the phonecall that Christine made and then publicised on their website."

I found that comment very interesting, Apostate. Tape recorders in Bibles!

But look at this quote from Dave McKay posted by him on his website on September 13:

Dave McKay - Quote:

"It's true that DN's computer has a lot of protective software on it, but I don't really think he has a CLUE as to who is leaking the information that we have on him."


How does Dave McKay know if someone's computer has protective software on it? Hasn't, been trying his hand at hacking, has he?

Jack, I tried to PM you, but your box is full. You can PM or e-mail me. Several people have my e-mail address.

However, tomorrow morning I am embarking on a trip which will take me to a different, distant part of the world, and I don't know how much access I'll have with my laptop. I am also planning to take some time off from Dave and his crew and focus on more uplifting endeavors.

Zeuszor, please stay well and take care of yourself. You'll all be in my heart.