Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: December 25, 2007 01:05PM
To Roland
The following is something I remember from the filming of the JK Show that we were on. It was, for me, a memorable experience.
At one point I started to get a bit animated, raised my voice, and cut David off as he was saying something. JK then stopped me and went back to speaking with DM. As JK stopped me, Roland's eyes and mine met for several seconds, we looked right at one another, and Roland sort of calmly and subtly waved one of his hands downwards and patielntly nodded; it was as if he was communicating to me, "Take it easy, mate. Keep your cool. Let Dave talk. It's OK."
That eye contact between us and the subtle body language from him really impressed me. I don't know why I find it so memorable an incident ...I found it, and do find it, ironic that a JC looked me right in the eyes and gave me this look and a little wave as if to say, "Calm down." At that point I did stop speaking. Roland was "cooler" than me in that situation. Maybe I am reading too much into it, but at that moment, Roland, you seemed like an OK guy. It'd be neat to play a game of chess with you someday. Maybe we could have been friends in some other life, man. We'll never know, huh?
But JCs, know this: I do not hate any of you, and do not want anybody to be hurt in any way. I admit to strong holding negative feelings toward your "leader" DM, but as individuals, I am sure that you are all pretty cool and decent people in general. My opinion, stated very simply, is that you (and I speak to all the JCs other than David at this point) have been tricked by some bad people. Don't take it personally. I think that we could all relate to one another more than you may think.
Merry CHRISTmas,
B
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2007 01:10PM by zeuszor.
The following is something I remember from the filming of the JK Show that we were on. It was, for me, a memorable experience.
At one point I started to get a bit animated, raised my voice, and cut David off as he was saying something. JK then stopped me and went back to speaking with DM. As JK stopped me, Roland's eyes and mine met for several seconds, we looked right at one another, and Roland sort of calmly and subtly waved one of his hands downwards and patielntly nodded; it was as if he was communicating to me, "Take it easy, mate. Keep your cool. Let Dave talk. It's OK."
That eye contact between us and the subtle body language from him really impressed me. I don't know why I find it so memorable an incident ...I found it, and do find it, ironic that a JC looked me right in the eyes and gave me this look and a little wave as if to say, "Calm down." At that point I did stop speaking. Roland was "cooler" than me in that situation. Maybe I am reading too much into it, but at that moment, Roland, you seemed like an OK guy. It'd be neat to play a game of chess with you someday. Maybe we could have been friends in some other life, man. We'll never know, huh?
But JCs, know this: I do not hate any of you, and do not want anybody to be hurt in any way. I admit to strong holding negative feelings toward your "leader" DM, but as individuals, I am sure that you are all pretty cool and decent people in general. My opinion, stated very simply, is that you (and I speak to all the JCs other than David at this point) have been tricked by some bad people. Don't take it personally. I think that we could all relate to one another more than you may think.
Merry CHRISTmas,
B
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2007 01:10PM by zeuszor.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: December 25, 2007 01:19PM
Quote
Malcolm Wesley WREST
Hmm...Dear Zeusor....
You would call this a "real" apology??....(the contents of which are intended as a barbed reference to Liesel, "disguised" (in the manner that only some utterly wicked, cretin-like mind could stoop to produce ) in a purported "apology" about a readily verifiable factual matter that David now knows he can longer openly deny)
"I wish to give here a complete and unreserved apology to Annette for saying on the Jeremy Kyle Show that she had lied to the community by saying that she had only one kidney when she joined the community.
This apology comes as a result of a recent confession by Liesel (on the RR forum) that she led Annette to believe all her life that she had "only one kidney", thus causing Annette to share with us genuine amazement at a report from a doctor that she had, in fact, BOTH kidneys intact when an x-ray was taken of her while she was living with us.
It seems that there was a genuine misunderstanding on Annette's part (with regard to a non-functioning but still intact kidney), which led to a false assumption by us that Annette had misled us by saying that she had only one kidney and by registering amazement that the doctor said she now has two kidneys. If Annette is reading this, I hope, Annette, that you can forgive me for that comment. I hope that everything is going well for you now, and that you and your family are happy and well. Merry Christmas!"
.....however, not to ungraciously remain "untouched" by Davids' efforts at "reconciliation" in like manner, let me make a (similar style of) apology....,
I apolgize that I'm employed abusive language in some of my postings that have lowered the tone of this forum....let me "apologize" by politely pointing out, (without recourse to any foul language whatsoever), that while David may be a snivelling, snake-like Satanic apparation (although increasingly simian like in appearance, these days don't you think?) who employs blanket lies, psychological labelling, projection, and falsified "histories" against those who seek to challenge his neurotically self deluded and criminal destruction of the lives of countless vulnerable young people through out the world, in order to be able to continue the deliberate manipulation, belittlement and covert derision of those who he can deceitfully ensnare in barely disguised servitude to his own nefarious purposes of self worship....well you know....no one has the unassailable right think any the worse of him, for it, have they....!
I also....I also...I... (excuse while I try to restrain these guffaws of laughter)...really believe that David is urgently owed the STRONGEST apology possible from Sue, who despite hours and hours of preparatory coaching from him ...yet, still succeded in making the JesusChristians look exactly like the heartless charlatans (that they are) with her "snide asides" to the woman recovering from the ordeal of the COG's....(...a magnificent if unintended, performance there Sue...for which you had better desperately "apologize" to your Master, with as much self-abnegating "boot-licking" as opportunity affords you for the next few months....)
A toast to David? Well, with my apologies Zeusor I think it's wise to look at the lessons of history, in order to consider best how we might appropriately "acknowledge" this recent "apology" and it would seem to me that back, say....
...say back in the middle centuries, many people would have looked at David, and at the posting you nominate as evidence of the Christmas "spirit" in the man, and would also have sincerely wanted to toast him too!!!....(...at a burning stake!)
There!!! ....."Phew" ( and heart-felt sigh!)....Well...I'm glad to have that little apology off my chest....
It's my prayer that while Annette may choose to forgive David, (despite his clumsy and cloying attempt to "win" her over for his own self-serving purposes, with the protestations of his "heart-felt" good will to her...a wheedling tactic we also saw from "smiling" and "pleasant" David that tried to psychologically disorientate and "disarm" Zesuor in the moments before the JK program)..... that God will not forgive him, (based on current behaviour)....thus, while you choose to continue to lead the "life" you do....
A Melancholy Christmas to you David....and by Gods' grace, may your corner in Hell, be hot enough for those good folk, in the distant heavens above, to be able to toast their yuletide marshmallows off you.....
Yeah, I hear ya man, but still let's give him a little credit, or at least an acknowledgment. It's a real first. Historical, in fact, as the Apostate says. From Apostate, at the URL above:
Unlike the Quaker saga, this IS historic. I have NEVER EVER witnessed you doing this before. WELL DONE Dave. Let's ee if you can keep the good will going. It would be good to see you reconciling and apologising in areas in which you haven't yet been hounded down.
Have a little think about it this Christmas lunch time if your thoughts happen to turn to family, when most of the planet spend time with their families.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2007 01:26PM by zeuszor.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: December 25, 2007 09:08PM
Yes, you are right Zeusor...I shouldn't be so ungracious as not to acknowledge what appears to be a "sliver" of genuineness on Davids' part...
However...if he is really genuine....why not post what he written on the JC site onto the public forums on the JK program (still open I believe!)...it costs David nothing to "apologize" on his website, for behaviour that he has sought to "benefit" from by slandering Annette before millions of viewers to protect the misleading "public image" he grooms.....
...where is the public apology to Annette on the forum where he deliberately "gained" from his "honest mistake".....strangely not forthcoming to date??? How odd for someone with feelings of "honest" repentance....
However...if he is really genuine....why not post what he written on the JC site onto the public forums on the JK program (still open I believe!)...it costs David nothing to "apologize" on his website, for behaviour that he has sought to "benefit" from by slandering Annette before millions of viewers to protect the misleading "public image" he grooms.....
...where is the public apology to Annette on the forum where he deliberately "gained" from his "honest mistake".....strangely not forthcoming to date??? How odd for someone with feelings of "honest" repentance....
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Dogmother
()
Date: December 25, 2007 10:49PM
Peace and Blessings to us all. So much good food (vegetarian for me of course) and memories to share with family and friends.
It's up to my daughter to decide if she wants to accept Dave's apology or if a more public forum is required, since the accusation was made in front of millions of people.
I would like to take this oportunity to point out that I was not a single mother raising my daughter, but that she grew-up in a loving, supportive two-parent family, where universal values were discussed and taught.
Her father, unfortunately, passed away this year. He was a remarkable, talented man, honest and straightforward, an honorable member of Oxford University. Wouldn't tell a lie if it was to save his life. However, he was in on the "plot to deceive our daughter" about her kidney. Told her, like I did, to be careful and take care of herself. "You only have one kidney and that's fine, but it requires extra care,"we both admonished.
When my granddaugter was born and all went well, I was overcome with gratitude for the surgeon and wrote to him.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2007 10:52PM by Dogmother.
It's up to my daughter to decide if she wants to accept Dave's apology or if a more public forum is required, since the accusation was made in front of millions of people.
I would like to take this oportunity to point out that I was not a single mother raising my daughter, but that she grew-up in a loving, supportive two-parent family, where universal values were discussed and taught.
Her father, unfortunately, passed away this year. He was a remarkable, talented man, honest and straightforward, an honorable member of Oxford University. Wouldn't tell a lie if it was to save his life. However, he was in on the "plot to deceive our daughter" about her kidney. Told her, like I did, to be careful and take care of herself. "You only have one kidney and that's fine, but it requires extra care,"we both admonished.
When my granddaugter was born and all went well, I was overcome with gratitude for the surgeon and wrote to him.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2007 10:52PM by Dogmother.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Dogmother
()
Date: December 25, 2007 11:06PM
Can ya'll fathom my surprise when I investigated the "missionary group" my daughter was supposed to have joined, and her father and I read the Guardian piece "Blood Sacrifice" by the wonderful Jon Ronson? "Kidneys for Jesus" followed later.
It seemed all truly extraordinary.
When I said on JK that I represent "our" special group of mothers, I wanted the audience to put a face to those mothers. We are not crazy monsters, but will always protect our children the best we can, even if it's from themselves.
Personally, I have never held a gun. When I was asked by US immigration during my citizenship ceremony in Miami to swear the oath of aligience which states..."I bear arms for the United States of American when required by law," I responded, "Nope, I can't swear to something I will never do. I don't bear arms for anyone, anywhere, anytime. You got to taken that out."
"Religious reasons," they asked.
"No, it's just me," I responded.
The wording was removed for my part.
I am never afraid to speak out for what I believe to be right.
I'll get back to Reinhard later.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2007 11:14PM by Dogmother.
It seemed all truly extraordinary.
When I said on JK that I represent "our" special group of mothers, I wanted the audience to put a face to those mothers. We are not crazy monsters, but will always protect our children the best we can, even if it's from themselves.
Personally, I have never held a gun. When I was asked by US immigration during my citizenship ceremony in Miami to swear the oath of aligience which states..."I bear arms for the United States of American when required by law," I responded, "Nope, I can't swear to something I will never do. I don't bear arms for anyone, anywhere, anytime. You got to taken that out."
"Religious reasons," they asked.
"No, it's just me," I responded.
The wording was removed for my part.
I am never afraid to speak out for what I believe to be right.
I'll get back to Reinhard later.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2007 11:14PM by Dogmother.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
private eyes
()
Date: December 26, 2007 12:20AM
Just wanted to take this opportunity to thank everybody for their help throughout the year. A real spirity of co-operation is occuring and I think people are recognising that if we work together, greater inroads can be made.
The difficulty with taking on the cults is that the Leaders will attempt to destroy the credibility of their critics, by whatever means possible. We've seen many examples of that this year. However, I believe that most readers will see past the attempts to label, if are own bearing is such, that our actions don't support what is being said.
Thank you Rick Ross especially, for allowing us the opportunity to post here.
Wishing each and everyone of you and the members of the Jesus Christians a very Merry Christmas.
Wouldn't it be great to hear that Jesus Christians still with parents, contacted them or spent time with them or other relatives this Christmas?
Perhaps those having disagreements with their parents, could called a truce? That's my Christmas Wish.
The difficulty with taking on the cults is that the Leaders will attempt to destroy the credibility of their critics, by whatever means possible. We've seen many examples of that this year. However, I believe that most readers will see past the attempts to label, if are own bearing is such, that our actions don't support what is being said.
Thank you Rick Ross especially, for allowing us the opportunity to post here.
Wishing each and everyone of you and the members of the Jesus Christians a very Merry Christmas.
Wouldn't it be great to hear that Jesus Christians still with parents, contacted them or spent time with them or other relatives this Christmas?
Perhaps those having disagreements with their parents, could called a truce? That's my Christmas Wish.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: December 26, 2007 08:42AM
Santa brought me a groovy new video converter this year and I am presently using it in order to re-convert that JK show so that we can view it without the watermark. It's gonna take several hours. More later.
CJHOM
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2007 08:43AM by zeuszor.
CJHOM
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2007 08:43AM by zeuszor.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Dogmother
()
Date: December 26, 2007 09:26AM
Just a couple more things from me tonight about Reinhard.
I wasn't going to reply to Dave's lying lie that I caused the JK Show trouble, and they almost had to close down because of me and my objections to Reinhard's presents. Not true. It was the opposite.
Even before I flew to Manchester, the show was swamped with Dave's non-stop demands. They got a few sentenses from me. He was the star--where can you find another cult leader craving publicity like he does? Without him, no show. My participations could have been replaced by any of "our" mothers and they would probably have done a much better job.
Dave and Cherry would be there, I was told. Complete disclosure, they said. We had to tell him you were coming. Fair enough. I was not told that Susan and Roland would also be there until late in the day, and I was already sequestered in a dressing room. Oh, well. Then, just before I was to go on for the second part--we were now in the Green Room--Graham Baldwin came in to say "hello," and he told me that in the audience were several more JCs, including Reinhard.
Now it began to look like one of Dave's ambushes. One grandmother against a pack of them. No longer fair. I voiced my concerns. However, the JK staff was so sweet, and had their hands already full with Dave's ranting and tantrums that I said almost immediately, "Let Reinhard stay."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2007 09:31AM by Dogmother.
I wasn't going to reply to Dave's lying lie that I caused the JK Show trouble, and they almost had to close down because of me and my objections to Reinhard's presents. Not true. It was the opposite.
Even before I flew to Manchester, the show was swamped with Dave's non-stop demands. They got a few sentenses from me. He was the star--where can you find another cult leader craving publicity like he does? Without him, no show. My participations could have been replaced by any of "our" mothers and they would probably have done a much better job.
Dave and Cherry would be there, I was told. Complete disclosure, they said. We had to tell him you were coming. Fair enough. I was not told that Susan and Roland would also be there until late in the day, and I was already sequestered in a dressing room. Oh, well. Then, just before I was to go on for the second part--we were now in the Green Room--Graham Baldwin came in to say "hello," and he told me that in the audience were several more JCs, including Reinhard.
Now it began to look like one of Dave's ambushes. One grandmother against a pack of them. No longer fair. I voiced my concerns. However, the JK staff was so sweet, and had their hands already full with Dave's ranting and tantrums that I said almost immediately, "Let Reinhard stay."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2007 09:31AM by Dogmother.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Dogmother
()
Date: December 26, 2007 09:47AM
I am, of course, sorry Reinhard got hurt. I like Reinhard.
However, 30,000 dollar's worth of damage can be racked up in one night's hospital stay here in the USA. My husband did this year. How long was Reinhard in the IC unit? If more than a few days, he got a bargain.
Which brings me to a serious matter I have been meaning to ask Dave. What health insurance do you provide for your loyal army of foot soldiers? Who is your insurance carrier? What happens if someone contracts a serious illness? Cancer maybe. Do you throw them out from your organization? Get welfare?
Just asking! Are we--law-abiding citizens and tax-payers--supporting you? Get abused and slandered to boot? Just asking!
More about Reinhard tomorrow. I like Reinhard.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2007 09:51AM by Dogmother.
However, 30,000 dollar's worth of damage can be racked up in one night's hospital stay here in the USA. My husband did this year. How long was Reinhard in the IC unit? If more than a few days, he got a bargain.
Which brings me to a serious matter I have been meaning to ask Dave. What health insurance do you provide for your loyal army of foot soldiers? Who is your insurance carrier? What happens if someone contracts a serious illness? Cancer maybe. Do you throw them out from your organization? Get welfare?
Just asking! Are we--law-abiding citizens and tax-payers--supporting you? Get abused and slandered to boot? Just asking!
More about Reinhard tomorrow. I like Reinhard.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2007 09:51AM by Dogmother.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: December 26, 2007 09:59AM
I myself was told that DM and his consort would be there onstage, along with two other (unidentified) JCs. I didn't know it was Sue and Rols until I saw them walk on during the filming. It, for me, was all sort of a last-minute, unplanned, spontaneous kind of thing. One day I get a phone call and a couple days later I am flying to England. I didn't know exactly who would be there other than The Dark Overlord and his consort. Nor did I especially care. I wasn't too worried about an "ambush" of some kind. I was quite looking forward to it (finally down facing DM) actually.
The JK staff was great, professional and friendly, the hotel and my provisions were outstanding. Altogether a great trip. It makes me happy that I got to help, and get a kick out of the fact that it was DM who recommended me for the deal in the first place. He tried to manipulate the situation and thought that I would screw up and give away my man's name:
[welikejesus.com]
Yeah, sure, Brian, I know you by now. And I know that if you really had a name for David Lowe other than David Lowe (or Private Eyes), you would not have to wait until you get here to let me know what it is. You know my email address. Why not just send it to me privately, and get David Lowe off the hook? The most reasonable explanation is that you don't have ANY name (or envelopes). I can see the envelopes if/when you get here, but I want the name in the next couple of hours, or I tell the producers that you're just a loose cannon and not connected with David... or anyone else.
Boy, you sure screwed up on that one David. This is SO typical of you. Ultimatums, "if you don't do this I'll do that" threats and an extreme need for control. These are all of your hallmarks, David. You didn't really think I'd fall for it, did you? I saw that manipulation coming a mile away. Don't underestimate my "private eyes."
Also, I am having trouble with the DVD/WMV conversions using the new software. Something does not seem to be right. I'll keep working on it. more later.
CJHOM
The JK staff was great, professional and friendly, the hotel and my provisions were outstanding. Altogether a great trip. It makes me happy that I got to help, and get a kick out of the fact that it was DM who recommended me for the deal in the first place. He tried to manipulate the situation and thought that I would screw up and give away my man's name:
[welikejesus.com]
Yeah, sure, Brian, I know you by now. And I know that if you really had a name for David Lowe other than David Lowe (or Private Eyes), you would not have to wait until you get here to let me know what it is. You know my email address. Why not just send it to me privately, and get David Lowe off the hook? The most reasonable explanation is that you don't have ANY name (or envelopes). I can see the envelopes if/when you get here, but I want the name in the next couple of hours, or I tell the producers that you're just a loose cannon and not connected with David... or anyone else.
Boy, you sure screwed up on that one David. This is SO typical of you. Ultimatums, "if you don't do this I'll do that" threats and an extreme need for control. These are all of your hallmarks, David. You didn't really think I'd fall for it, did you? I saw that manipulation coming a mile away. Don't underestimate my "private eyes."
Also, I am having trouble with the DVD/WMV conversions using the new software. Something does not seem to be right. I'll keep working on it. more later.
CJHOM
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