So instead of an apology, David has gone on to another rant. See it here for yourselves:

[welikejesus.com]

He says things like:

For example, if someone says that a person has lied, that is not the same as calling a person a liar. The term liar implies consistent and repeated lies, more or less as part of a person's nature. I did not call Annette a liar, as you have stated here (twice). Are you going to apologise for that?

So that means no apology is owing eh David?

I rest my case.

Just how much time do you live spend living for Christ, and his ways, as opposed to the countless hours you spend on the internet arguing one hopeless self-justification after another? It's all about David being right, isn't it? It's not about Jesus at all!

.....................

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Dogmother
I'm just reading a great book by author Al Franken from the New York Times bestseller list Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them....

Going back to the Jeremy Kyle Show, did you all hear Dave starting the second part with calling my daughter a liar? On British television, in front of over a million viewers? How about that? Kate, if you are reading this, it's about kidney donation and being unable to coerse my daughter--what a shame--because she lied about not having a spare kidney.

Well, well, Dave. This is something I know all about. I was with her at Charing Cross Hospital when a famous Harley Street surgeon operated on her small body (she was less than a year old in 1971). The operation lasted six long hours and saved my daughter's life. She is not the lying liar who tells lies, you are.

Oh yes DogMa, I am reading this, and I do hear you, and it is a truly horrifying and deeply saddening report.

So can we get this straight : Annette is called a liar for not having clarified that the 6 hr surgical procedure she underwent at one year of age had the end result of her only having 1 kidney working, as opposed to only having 1 kidney?

I'd be very surprised if we didn't all describe some of the events from our first year of life with some degree of inaccuracy when relating them many years later, let alone when general anaesthetic has been involved.

I understand that Dave does accept that the aged can suffer from confusion and memory problems without earning themselves the title of "liar". Surely then we can all appreciate the generalities of youth in the same way?

So saying however, I must also note that the title "liar" is very freely given out to anyone expressing anything that may be painted as being in opposition to the JC community. I have viewed the youtube bits, or at least some of, from the Jeremy Kyle Show, and notice the frequent accusations of lying made by the JCs team, in just this way.

Makes me think - what we are as children, is what we grow up to be. I recall my headmistress's comment on my school report stating : 'Catherine tells the truth even when it is not to her advantage", and yet my name is pasted all over the JCs forum as a liar telling lies. I mostly don't grace the accusations with any response having Jesus' own example in mind, but just because I don't protest doesn't mean I am a liar, and I don't believe Annette is either.

Thanks very much Cait, Blackhat and Apostate!

It's pretty goulish, Dave's obsession with other people's kidneys, isn't it?

The six hour operation, when Annette was less than a year old, came about because she suddenly became deathly sick. She was admitted to a children's hospital and eventually the kidney problem was detected via a lumber puncture. Brave little girl, she was. One kidney was misshaped and causing problems due to what the doctor's called "reflaxing." Toxins being washed into her body instead of being eliminated.

A famous Harley Street surgeon by the name of Grant Williams became involved in her case due to connections we had. He and his team performed the operation. A plastic tube was inserted into her body and the misshaped organ was disconnected. We were told, and always told Annette while she was growing up, "be careful, stay warm, etc, you only have one kidney." For many years she suffered and many more hospital stays followed.

That's the story.

I shall make a quick response on my LA visit to the JCs in a separate post since Dave keeps bringing it up. That visit happened just before Annettte and the kids left and I had not seen them for over three years.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2007 11:03PM by Dogmother.

Liesel's LA visit to see her children after 3 years.

Can you guys imagine my surprise when I suddenly got an invitation from my daughter to visit their community? This had nothing to do with my search for the children in Dallas 3 years previously, shortly after they took off to do "missionary work" leaving nothing but a P.O. box number.

My children didn't look the same after 3 years in the JCs. The were sallow and zombie-like, nothing like the happy, fun-loving little family I knew. I was determined not to judge and be respectful of all their endeavors. I strongly believe in personal freedom.

First I took my kids to eat at a buffet-type restaurant. My grandson ate 3 large baked potatoes. We slowly tried to reconnect with each other. I stayed at the Biltmore Hotel in downtown LA and we all "crushed," wordlessly, on my bed for several hours.

More in a minute.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2007 11:32PM by Dogmother.

....speaking of those who deliberately misguide others with false information, or relevant information that is deliberately not supplied....I note an interesting statement on the part of the son of Satan....(John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.)

to quote (from the thread Blackhat supplied earlier.....)

Although Annette had never said anything about donating a kidney (of course), and although I have a policy of never bringing up the subject with anyone who has not brought it up themselves,....(blah, blah...& other vacuous fabrications)


If David "never brings up the subject of kidney donations" one does wonder how the practice first originated within the JC's(...occult telepathy..?)...Am I correct in remembering that this stunt, in fact (by Davids' own admission!) originated after David had a "dream" aboard a flight, that he then "shared" with the JC community...


(......David is thus a liar, by his own, (stupidly inadvertent) admission....and of course if David could lie in something so major as this.....there is of course, little reason to believe that has any compunctions of honesty in any other matter....say for example by facetiously trying to "blame" someone for their decision not to donate, with all the implications of personal "inadequacy" that he could muster...)


David imagined he had another "publicity" generator here....then he, uninvited, deliberately brought the subject up initially, manipulating those who are vulnerable enough to place some trust in him by explaining in detail to the members of the JC's how "Godly" it would be, for some of them to be prepared to do as he had dreamt....and "inspired" by his nagging insistence, the donations thus began.....


As we have a number of ex-members now, who have donated, it will of course, ultimately become increasingly interesting to hear their version, of how "distant" David and his chosen appointees, kept himself from their own "personal" decision to donate....

(...and David of course will now be laying the groundwork of fabricated accusations against whoever ultimately goes public and points out that that David prominently "rewarded" whoever chose to donate their organs with public praise, the "perks" of recognition in the JC's and with the "filthy lucre" of the rewards of "leadership" status in the sordid little world he runs, precisely in order to make those who DIDN'T donate, feel guilty at their "faithless" reticence...)


....but you know, I think, Satan really needs to rebuke David for the carelessness with which he concocts his fabrications these days.....not a "good look" at all for the King of Darkness, to have such slipshod work, in public, on the part of his children....Tsk, tsk....such an easy lie to see through and to then disprove....come on Satan!!...slap this lazy son of yours into some shape!!

It will be a little while before I get back to this. Have to prepare parts for tomorrow's Christmas dinner.

As Zeuzsor says, "stay tuned."

And, no, I was not happy that Reino got injured or anyone for that matter. I like the young man. I bought him a ticket to the Los Angeles Symphony.

Reino, you can explain to me what happen, because I don't know why you suddenly turned on me when everything was going well that day. (Though I have a pretty good idea. ) Oh, Dave.......

After viewing some of the JK files (thanks Zeusor) and in particular watching that young man tell David how strongly he reminds him of the leader of the cult of which he fell prey to…

I note with dismay that Liesels’ comments:

My children didn't look the same after 3 years in the JCs. The were sallow and zombie-like, nothing like the happy, fun-loving little family I knew. I was determined not to judge and be respectful of all their endeavors. I strongly believe in personal freedom.;First I took my kids to eat at a buffet-type restaurant. My grandson ate 3 large baked potatoes. We slowly tried to reconnect with each other. I stayed at the Biltmore Hotel in downtown LA and we all "crushed," wordlessly, on my bed for several hours.

…are “comparable” with some of the comments Wikipedia makes in its own “David Koresh” file

"Koresh deliberately undermined the traditional parent-child relationship and replaced it with a dependence upon a central figure, himself. The children related at various times that they had been instructed to call their natural parents "dogs" and to call Koresh "father."..."

"Any attachment judged by Koresh to be more important to an individual than the dependence upon him or God was not tolerated."

"The children were also threatened with death if they revealed aspects of life inside the compound to the "non-believers". As is typical when an abusive adult threatens a child, they were told that outsiders would not understand "our special ways"...."

"…there was evidence of peer-group monitoring, group censoring and avoidance of disclosing any more information."

"The fact that the name of God and religion were used to obscure this exploitive and abusive practice make these activities even more heinous and destructive to the long term development of these children. The fact that responsible adults, either parents or 'academics', would minimize these activities is shameful. David Koresh systematically exploited the members of the Branch Davidian community, slowly but surely coercing that community to play out the tragic and destructive visions of his own disturbed inner world."[44](Dr Bruce D. Perry)


and to return to the JK program to observe that David hasn’t changed at all in the intervening 22 years…..endeavouring to misrepresent himself in as “confident” a manner as he can manage, the stage managed protestations of “innocence”, the policy of fabricating an “image”…..he’s as filthy a swindler as ever he was….but just progressively more committed to living out the dementia of his “Godly” insight

Gaol or the “nut-house” are the only safe solutions for this fraudster…..

Quote
Malcolm Wesley WREST
I think, Satan really needs to rebuke David for the carelessness with which he concocts his fabrications these days.....not a "good look" at all for the King of Darkness, to have such slipshod work, in public, on the part of his children....Tsk, tsk....such an easy lie to see through and to then disprove....come on Satan!!...slap this lazy son of yours into some shape!!

I am doing my best... but he is such a rebellious little imp.

There's a first time for everything, right?

[welikejesus.com]

David is for once actually apologizing for something. A toast to David!

Hmm...Dear Zeusor....

You would call this a "real" apology??....(the contents of which are intended as a barbed reference to Liesel, "disguised" (in the manner that only some utterly wicked, cretin-like mind could stoop to produce ) in a purported "apology" about a readily verifiable factual matter that David now knows he can longer openly deny)

"I wish to give here a complete and unreserved apology to Annette for saying on the Jeremy Kyle Show that she had lied to the community by saying that she had only one kidney when she joined the community.

This apology comes as a result of a recent confession by Liesel (on the RR forum) that she led Annette to believe all her life that she had "only one kidney", thus causing Annette to share with us genuine amazement at a report from a doctor that she had, in fact, BOTH kidneys intact when an x-ray was taken of her while she was living with us.

It seems that there was a genuine misunderstanding on Annette's part (with regard to a non-functioning but still intact kidney), which led to a false assumption by us that Annette had misled us by saying that she had only one kidney and by registering amazement that the doctor said she now has two kidneys. If Annette is reading this, I hope, Annette, that you can forgive me for that comment. I hope that everything is going well for you now, and that you and your family are happy and well. Merry Christmas!"


.....however, not to ungraciously remain "untouched" by Davids' efforts at "reconciliation" in like manner, let me make a (similar style of) apology....,

I apolgize that I'm employed abusive language in some of my postings that have lowered the tone of this forum....let me "apologize" by politely pointing out, (without recourse to any foul language whatsoever), that while David may be a snivelling, snake-like Satanic apparation (although increasingly simian like in appearance, these days don't you think?) who employs blanket lies, psychological labelling, projection, and falsified "histories" against those who seek to challenge his neurotically self deluded and criminal destruction of the lives of countless vulnerable young people through out the world, in order to be able to continue the deliberate manipulation, belittlement and covert derision of those who he can deceitfully ensnare in barely disguised servitude to his own nefarious purposes of self worship....well you know....no one has the unassailable right think any the worse of him, for it, have they....!

I also....I also...I... (excuse while I try to restrain these guffaws of laughter)...really believe that David is urgently owed the STRONGEST apology possible from Sue, who despite hours and hours of preparatory coaching from him ...yet, still succeded in making the JesusChristians look exactly like the heartless charlatans (that they are) with her "snide asides" to the woman recovering from the ordeal of the COG's....(...a magnificent if unintended, performance there Sue...for which you had better desperately "apologize" to your Master, with as much self-abnegating "boot-licking" as opportunity affords you for the next few months....)

A toast to David? Well, with my apologies Zeusor I think it's wise to look at the lessons of history, in order to consider best how we might appropriately "acknowledge" this recent "apology" and it would seem to me that back, say....

...say back in the middle centuries, many people would have looked at David, and at the posting you nominate as evidence of the Christmas "spirit" in the man, and would also have sincerely wanted to toast him too!!!....(...at a burning stake!)


There!!! ....."Phew" ( and heart-felt sigh!)....Well...I'm glad to have that little apology off my chest....

It's my prayer that while Annette may choose to forgive David, (despite his clumsy and cloying attempt to "win" her over for his own self-serving purposes, with the protestations of his "heart-felt" good will to her...a wheedling tactic we also saw from "smiling" and "pleasant" David that tried to psychologically disorientate and "disarm" Zesuor in the moments before the JK program)..... that God will not forgive him, (based on current behaviour)....thus, while you choose to continue to lead the "life" you do....

A Melancholy Christmas to you David....and by Gods' grace, may your corner in Hell, be hot enough for those good folk, in the distant heavens above, to be able to toast their yuletide marshmallows off you.....