Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
private eyes
()
Date: July 03, 2007 09:59PM
Dave seems to be taking his thread name; Rick Ross invites lies and slander, seriously. He’s decided to accept his own invitation and post lies and slander:
Dave Said:
"The sad thing is that, at the same time that these people claim we are totally imagining any serious threat, they are the ones who totally defend and justify what Jared and John did to Rheinhard, and who constantly belittle the whole incident, saying that we have exaggerated it, that Rheinhard had it coming, that he is faking injuries, etc."
Is this what we said? Of course not.
It appears on the available evidence that Rheinard was assaulted and suffered serious injuries as a result of that assault. It is known that he was in hospital in May.
However, thankfully, as was accurately reported, he was sufficiently well enough to be entered in a 5km race in Kentucky in June. I use the word entered, to avoid any semantic issues over, run, walk briskly or walk. He was 295 out of 511 competitors. I use the word, thankfully, because I know of anyone on this forum that wishes Rheinard or any member of the Jesus Christians physical harm.
No one to my knowledge has defended the assault or claimed that Rheinard had it coming. Nor that he exaggerated his injuries or was faking. However, the public may have been under the impression, in the absence of any information to the contrary, that Rheinard was still incapacitated in June.
I was certainly happy to see a smiling, healthy looking Rheinard sitting with the rest of the team in Kentucky and glad that he was out of Hospital.
Dave's said:
"A big point is made of the fact that we called it attempted murder whereas the police called it attack with a deadly weapon (or more specifically deadly force), meaning that the extent of the injuries was such that he could very easily have been killed. Everyone there (including the neighbours) knew that if they had not started taking pictures, Reinhard would be dead now... and there were a few hours when Reinhard first arrived at the hospital when they were not sure if he was going to survive."
Our issue is that Dave is trying constantly trying to imply that Jared and John intended to kill Rheinard. This is a very serious accusation. If that is his belief, so be it. But when he posts it in the public domain, he better be prepared to be challenged.
In his post, he introduces the word, deadly. The relevant statute was Californian Court Statute: P 245 A1 the specific section in relation to this charge was,… force likely to produce great bodily injury. The word deadly, only relates, if a weapon is involved.
Dave said:
"But the police were never terribly keen to help us (being a "cult" and all that!) and they always have difficulty with proving intent (as in a serious attempt to kill). Sometimes even when the person dies, the charge is still manslaughter if they can't prove that murder was the intent. The point is that Jared and John did not stop kicking him in the head and back because of his injuries. They only stopped when the crowd started to threaten them with exposure by taking pictures. "
Here David introduces another serious allegation, in that he is now accuses the Long Beach Police of corruption. The Police charge people on the basis of legally obtained evidence.
Dave Said:
"So it's reasonable by legal standards that the police got them to plead guilty to assault with a deadly weapon (or deadly force). But the bottom line over on the RR forum is that Reinhard is still being the one falsely accused of breaking the law and being a fraud, etc. even though he is still in pain to this day from the injury to his back."
Here again the word, deadly is applied to force by Dave.
The police had every opportunity to speak to witnesses and form a view of what occurred. In the absence of being able to prove beyond any reasonable doubt, any other charge, they were charged accordingly.
Dave’s continued use of the words, attempted murder, kill, deadly, etc have not been supported or proven in a Court of law. Whatever, happened to all people are innocent until proven guilty?
The Australian equivalents of the charges would be firstly, assault and then, assault with grievous bodily harm. Even where intent is attempted to be proven, it becomes assault with intent to cause grevious bodily harm. Totally different charges to attempted murder.
He was seriously assaulted, beaten up, bashed, but no one tried to kill him.
Dave said:
"No, they are very cruel and dangerous people, and those who incite Brian and Malcolm are as guilty as they will be if and when they ever get a chance to work out their evil machinations."
No, it is not Malcolm Brian or anyone else on this site that will cause members of the Jesus Christians to be put in harm’s way. Quite the contrary. We want them to be healthy and free independent thinkers.
Sadly, these incidents will probably continue in the future, if parents react angrily to what they perceive as their children being abducted. If the leadership of Jesus Christians continues to foster a philosophy, which allows it members to “groom” naive and impressionable minors via the internet (and by other means, such as clandestine meetings). All in an effort to encourage them to leave their parents and join the Jesus Christians, “community”. A community they themselves say is an underground movement, which has been described as both idealistic and dangerous, saintly and sinister, radical and revolting.
If blood ends up on anyone’s hands, it will be Dave McKay’s.
[/quote]
Dave Said:
"The sad thing is that, at the same time that these people claim we are totally imagining any serious threat, they are the ones who totally defend and justify what Jared and John did to Rheinhard, and who constantly belittle the whole incident, saying that we have exaggerated it, that Rheinhard had it coming, that he is faking injuries, etc."
Is this what we said? Of course not.
It appears on the available evidence that Rheinard was assaulted and suffered serious injuries as a result of that assault. It is known that he was in hospital in May.
However, thankfully, as was accurately reported, he was sufficiently well enough to be entered in a 5km race in Kentucky in June. I use the word entered, to avoid any semantic issues over, run, walk briskly or walk. He was 295 out of 511 competitors. I use the word, thankfully, because I know of anyone on this forum that wishes Rheinard or any member of the Jesus Christians physical harm.
No one to my knowledge has defended the assault or claimed that Rheinard had it coming. Nor that he exaggerated his injuries or was faking. However, the public may have been under the impression, in the absence of any information to the contrary, that Rheinard was still incapacitated in June.
I was certainly happy to see a smiling, healthy looking Rheinard sitting with the rest of the team in Kentucky and glad that he was out of Hospital.
Dave's said:
"A big point is made of the fact that we called it attempted murder whereas the police called it attack with a deadly weapon (or more specifically deadly force), meaning that the extent of the injuries was such that he could very easily have been killed. Everyone there (including the neighbours) knew that if they had not started taking pictures, Reinhard would be dead now... and there were a few hours when Reinhard first arrived at the hospital when they were not sure if he was going to survive."
Our issue is that Dave is trying constantly trying to imply that Jared and John intended to kill Rheinard. This is a very serious accusation. If that is his belief, so be it. But when he posts it in the public domain, he better be prepared to be challenged.
In his post, he introduces the word, deadly. The relevant statute was Californian Court Statute: P 245 A1 the specific section in relation to this charge was,… force likely to produce great bodily injury. The word deadly, only relates, if a weapon is involved.
Dave said:
"But the police were never terribly keen to help us (being a "cult" and all that!) and they always have difficulty with proving intent (as in a serious attempt to kill). Sometimes even when the person dies, the charge is still manslaughter if they can't prove that murder was the intent. The point is that Jared and John did not stop kicking him in the head and back because of his injuries. They only stopped when the crowd started to threaten them with exposure by taking pictures. "
Here David introduces another serious allegation, in that he is now accuses the Long Beach Police of corruption. The Police charge people on the basis of legally obtained evidence.
Dave Said:
"So it's reasonable by legal standards that the police got them to plead guilty to assault with a deadly weapon (or deadly force). But the bottom line over on the RR forum is that Reinhard is still being the one falsely accused of breaking the law and being a fraud, etc. even though he is still in pain to this day from the injury to his back."
Here again the word, deadly is applied to force by Dave.
The police had every opportunity to speak to witnesses and form a view of what occurred. In the absence of being able to prove beyond any reasonable doubt, any other charge, they were charged accordingly.
Dave’s continued use of the words, attempted murder, kill, deadly, etc have not been supported or proven in a Court of law. Whatever, happened to all people are innocent until proven guilty?
The Australian equivalents of the charges would be firstly, assault and then, assault with grievous bodily harm. Even where intent is attempted to be proven, it becomes assault with intent to cause grevious bodily harm. Totally different charges to attempted murder.
He was seriously assaulted, beaten up, bashed, but no one tried to kill him.
Dave said:
"No, they are very cruel and dangerous people, and those who incite Brian and Malcolm are as guilty as they will be if and when they ever get a chance to work out their evil machinations."
No, it is not Malcolm Brian or anyone else on this site that will cause members of the Jesus Christians to be put in harm’s way. Quite the contrary. We want them to be healthy and free independent thinkers.
Sadly, these incidents will probably continue in the future, if parents react angrily to what they perceive as their children being abducted. If the leadership of Jesus Christians continues to foster a philosophy, which allows it members to “groom” naive and impressionable minors via the internet (and by other means, such as clandestine meetings). All in an effort to encourage them to leave their parents and join the Jesus Christians, “community”. A community they themselves say is an underground movement, which has been described as both idealistic and dangerous, saintly and sinister, radical and revolting.
If blood ends up on anyone’s hands, it will be Dave McKay’s.
[/quote]
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: July 04, 2007 12:56AM
David who balefully foretold that we would go stark raving mad and has consistently and ominously pointed out the spiritual dangers we are threatening ourselves with here on this forum, with the on-going criticism we engage in. David does this, not because he wants to try to stymie our efforts to expose him, with cretin-like efforts on his part at psychological “labelling”, but because, out of the nature of the spirit that fills his heart, he truly (tells himself that he) loves everyone, he abuses….
Of course, there are some individual members of the JC’s who assert that I persistently and deliberately set out to mock David’s feeble-minded ravings…well that would hardly seem the truth….. (as occasionally it’s accidental….!)..but somehow you know, unfounded assertions or no… If the stress and uncertainty, the worry and the anxiety of whatever humble contributions I can post, cause David to only lose a single, solitary neuron through the apprehension of it all (….. hence halving his mental faculties), well somehow I will have thought it all worthwhile……
So let me say, (now that David has struck yet again with this insightful denunciation…..) those who incite Brian and Malcolm are as guilty as they will be if and when they ever get a chance to work out their evil machinations.
While it is true that I do not wish RHEINHARD any harm, I believe that I’m one of the few contributors to this site NOT to have unequivocally committed myself to a non-violent confrontation with David (…or at least I think I am…it’s a little difficult to keep track of everything my other personalities get up to….(…and yes I mean you in particular Zuul….don’t think that I can’t make you out among all those other voices!!)…
While I may not in a position to speak for everyone of me, I can assure you all, that most of me are certifiably sane…and those of me that aren’t, I’ve decided to no longer associate with….)
However despite that one very minor blemish in my record, let me assure everyone that I take my previously stated commitments to non-violence very seriously…(although please read the fine print…”in the event that any person, persons or Act of God “incites” me, the preceding contractual obligations are all null and void”…)……
Thus that’s’ why I have limited myself to one…and I mean only ONE ...sniper assault kit (… handguns don’t count of course)..which I always keep safely stored away from the prying eyes of any young children who may enter my home, carefully concealed behind all the boxes of Claymores and C4 in the cupboard under the stairwell (….because one can never be too careful with firearms, can one!)
God! David so-o-o right….It was awful when I first left the JesusChristians….the anguished guilt and depressing confusion over not being certain if I’d acted correctly… David kindly warned us all of what would befall those who put their hand to the plough but looked back…the very Abyss of Hell!!!
When I think of those early years…the strain of it, dwelling time and time again on Davids’ treatment of me, wallowing in melancholy, staring at the walls in a trance like state for hours and hours….at first murmuring softly, but then with increasing volume and emphasis “david..…David… DAVID…., D-A-V-I-D…., B-L-O-O-D-Y D-A-V-I-D,…. B-L-O-O-D-Y F-U-….the profanities growing wilder and wilder with the minute and my voice rising to a scream, until some poor soul finally had to run into the room to roughly shake me out of it all….
Then there were those horrific recurring nightmares, waking up screaming in the middle of the night, the bed drenched in perspiration, the nails of my fingers dug so deeply into the flesh of my hands, that they drew blood…
Thank God that I somehow managed to pull through it all, although I must acknowledge that the few tenuous shreds of sanity I managed to retain have been solely due to the emotionally supportive counselling that I have been able to engage in day in and day out ….at the time I left the JC’s of course, there were no manner of forum such as this….and I had never even heard of the professional consultation services that one may avail themselves of this days…
As Ash noted in an earlier posting to look at me now you’d have to think that I’ve finally recovered from any earlier neurosis I may have had (…as long as no-one “incites” me, mind! …) and that I am now fully “restored” and “whole” individual….it feels great….but it wasn’t always like this not by…. a “long shot” (…a pun which will shortly be made clear…)
Thank God, then I’ve been able to engage in all those hours and hours of restorative “heart-to-heart solace with my dearest companion (and IMO soul mate) down through the years….that is of course….my rifle……really she’s been wonderful….she’s the only thing that’s kept me going …creeping down in the wee hours of the morning while everyone slept peacefully, to shine her barrel and oil her workings…..time and time again…...watching the moonlight glint of her beautiful lines….
(We usually only speak in furtive whispers at such odd hours as we understand most people would just sneer at us…I almost feel sorry for them that they simply can’t fathom the depth of the relationship in the special bond that a man can share with his rifle).
She’s been wonderful…I no longer stare at the walls, have nightmares, or feel that I simply have to yell out David’s name in frustration and anger (It’s enough now just to quietly repeat his name chant-like as I file off the tips of the hollow-points (alters the flight characteristics of the bullet) and soothingly write DJM on each of them (…Death’s Judgement’s Merciful”…)
It’s been a long haul, but its’ all so much better now, since I’ve been talking to my rifle and in fact I’d have to say I’m positively buoyant these days now that’s she’ started talking back to me…
Her name’s Natasha. Natasha S.V.Dragunova. She comes from a working class background of the armament factories in Nizhniy Novograd…she’s a wonderful conversationalist …albeit in a rather strong Russian accent and mixed up with a lot of Russian itself, that I can’t always quite make out….
( Privet Malcolm!...Menya zavut Natasha! Malcolm moy lyubovnik!…Paslushayte! David-ska…..Phfzzsstt…...ty ZALUPA!!....)
We both like to reminisce about old times…I seeking advice from her on on how to deal with those obsessive feelings of loathing and hatred….and Natasha in her turn wistfully recounting the mournful retort of her gunfire echoing serenely across the Afghani steppes, the very air itself redolent with the acrid perfume of burning tanks…..the music of which I also have learned to love to listen to, out over forested hillsides of the Korean DMZ….
Pa-Pa-Pa-PAH!....Pa-Pa-Pa-PAH!...(.pausing briefly to fumble for a minute…) Phfut-Phfut-Phfut-PHFUT….Phfut-phfut-Phfut PHFUT (…when Natasha is fitted with that new Czech silencer I picked up on E-bay!)
She’s such a warm, thoughtful companion….I’d love to bring her over to Australia, although we realize that there’s always going to be problems with people who just can’t “understand”…
…I have of course already considered bringing her in as...well you know…a “family heirloom”….
(Sydney Customs Office, under the glare a very stern looking official)…..
Malcolm: {visibly on the verge of tears}….b-b-but…but…officer, she has great emotional value….Dad’s old Uncle Boris used her to bring down those seven Stukas over the skies of Stalingrad……..,
I’m sure Natasha and I could have a great old time reliving all the former haunts I knew in Sydney as a JesusChristian…bringing every back every memory to me, fresh and immediate as the day they happened,….. the places…. and the faces!!! ……We’d have a great time, just the two of us…..and of course those memories of mine ….How serene it would all be….(….just as long as no-one “incited” me,, that’s all!...otherwise that’d really set me off again!!)
Of course, there are some individual members of the JC’s who assert that I persistently and deliberately set out to mock David’s feeble-minded ravings…well that would hardly seem the truth….. (as occasionally it’s accidental….!)..but somehow you know, unfounded assertions or no… If the stress and uncertainty, the worry and the anxiety of whatever humble contributions I can post, cause David to only lose a single, solitary neuron through the apprehension of it all (….. hence halving his mental faculties), well somehow I will have thought it all worthwhile……
So let me say, (now that David has struck yet again with this insightful denunciation…..) those who incite Brian and Malcolm are as guilty as they will be if and when they ever get a chance to work out their evil machinations.
While it is true that I do not wish RHEINHARD any harm, I believe that I’m one of the few contributors to this site NOT to have unequivocally committed myself to a non-violent confrontation with David (…or at least I think I am…it’s a little difficult to keep track of everything my other personalities get up to….(…and yes I mean you in particular Zuul….don’t think that I can’t make you out among all those other voices!!)…
While I may not in a position to speak for everyone of me, I can assure you all, that most of me are certifiably sane…and those of me that aren’t, I’ve decided to no longer associate with….)
However despite that one very minor blemish in my record, let me assure everyone that I take my previously stated commitments to non-violence very seriously…(although please read the fine print…”in the event that any person, persons or Act of God “incites” me, the preceding contractual obligations are all null and void”…)……
Thus that’s’ why I have limited myself to one…and I mean only ONE ...sniper assault kit (… handguns don’t count of course)..which I always keep safely stored away from the prying eyes of any young children who may enter my home, carefully concealed behind all the boxes of Claymores and C4 in the cupboard under the stairwell (….because one can never be too careful with firearms, can one!)
God! David so-o-o right….It was awful when I first left the JesusChristians….the anguished guilt and depressing confusion over not being certain if I’d acted correctly… David kindly warned us all of what would befall those who put their hand to the plough but looked back…the very Abyss of Hell!!!
When I think of those early years…the strain of it, dwelling time and time again on Davids’ treatment of me, wallowing in melancholy, staring at the walls in a trance like state for hours and hours….at first murmuring softly, but then with increasing volume and emphasis “david..…David… DAVID…., D-A-V-I-D…., B-L-O-O-D-Y D-A-V-I-D,…. B-L-O-O-D-Y F-U-….the profanities growing wilder and wilder with the minute and my voice rising to a scream, until some poor soul finally had to run into the room to roughly shake me out of it all….
Then there were those horrific recurring nightmares, waking up screaming in the middle of the night, the bed drenched in perspiration, the nails of my fingers dug so deeply into the flesh of my hands, that they drew blood…
Thank God that I somehow managed to pull through it all, although I must acknowledge that the few tenuous shreds of sanity I managed to retain have been solely due to the emotionally supportive counselling that I have been able to engage in day in and day out ….at the time I left the JC’s of course, there were no manner of forum such as this….and I had never even heard of the professional consultation services that one may avail themselves of this days…
As Ash noted in an earlier posting to look at me now you’d have to think that I’ve finally recovered from any earlier neurosis I may have had (…as long as no-one “incites” me, mind! …) and that I am now fully “restored” and “whole” individual….it feels great….but it wasn’t always like this not by…. a “long shot” (…a pun which will shortly be made clear…)
Thank God, then I’ve been able to engage in all those hours and hours of restorative “heart-to-heart solace with my dearest companion (and IMO soul mate) down through the years….that is of course….my rifle……really she’s been wonderful….she’s the only thing that’s kept me going …creeping down in the wee hours of the morning while everyone slept peacefully, to shine her barrel and oil her workings…..time and time again…...watching the moonlight glint of her beautiful lines….
(We usually only speak in furtive whispers at such odd hours as we understand most people would just sneer at us…I almost feel sorry for them that they simply can’t fathom the depth of the relationship in the special bond that a man can share with his rifle).
She’s been wonderful…I no longer stare at the walls, have nightmares, or feel that I simply have to yell out David’s name in frustration and anger (It’s enough now just to quietly repeat his name chant-like as I file off the tips of the hollow-points (alters the flight characteristics of the bullet) and soothingly write DJM on each of them (…Death’s Judgement’s Merciful”…)
It’s been a long haul, but its’ all so much better now, since I’ve been talking to my rifle and in fact I’d have to say I’m positively buoyant these days now that’s she’ started talking back to me…
Her name’s Natasha. Natasha S.V.Dragunova. She comes from a working class background of the armament factories in Nizhniy Novograd…she’s a wonderful conversationalist …albeit in a rather strong Russian accent and mixed up with a lot of Russian itself, that I can’t always quite make out….
( Privet Malcolm!...Menya zavut Natasha! Malcolm moy lyubovnik!…Paslushayte! David-ska…..Phfzzsstt…...ty ZALUPA!!....)
We both like to reminisce about old times…I seeking advice from her on on how to deal with those obsessive feelings of loathing and hatred….and Natasha in her turn wistfully recounting the mournful retort of her gunfire echoing serenely across the Afghani steppes, the very air itself redolent with the acrid perfume of burning tanks…..the music of which I also have learned to love to listen to, out over forested hillsides of the Korean DMZ….
Pa-Pa-Pa-PAH!....Pa-Pa-Pa-PAH!...(.pausing briefly to fumble for a minute…) Phfut-Phfut-Phfut-PHFUT….Phfut-phfut-Phfut PHFUT (…when Natasha is fitted with that new Czech silencer I picked up on E-bay!)
She’s such a warm, thoughtful companion….I’d love to bring her over to Australia, although we realize that there’s always going to be problems with people who just can’t “understand”…
…I have of course already considered bringing her in as...well you know…a “family heirloom”….
(Sydney Customs Office, under the glare a very stern looking official)…..
Malcolm: {visibly on the verge of tears}….b-b-but…but…officer, she has great emotional value….Dad’s old Uncle Boris used her to bring down those seven Stukas over the skies of Stalingrad……..,
I’m sure Natasha and I could have a great old time reliving all the former haunts I knew in Sydney as a JesusChristian…bringing every back every memory to me, fresh and immediate as the day they happened,….. the places…. and the faces!!! ……We’d have a great time, just the two of us…..and of course those memories of mine ….How serene it would all be….(….just as long as no-one “incited” me,, that’s all!...otherwise that’d really set me off again!!)
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
private eyes
()
Date: July 06, 2007 02:54PM
ATTENTION: ALL EX MEMBERS - JESUS CHRISTIANS aka CHRISTIANS aka RAPVILLE CHRISTIANS aka MEDOWIE CHRISTIAN VOLUNTEERS aka VOICES IN THE WILDNERNESS aka Mc KAY FAMILY
Regular readers of the Board will no doubt know, that I have embarked on a project to thoroughly research the Jesus Christians and their leader, David McKay.
I am grateful to a number of people who are assisting me with trying to obtain accurate, factual information. Readers will be aware that David McKay is often evasive when asked direct questions regarding his own background and the activities of his group or omits certain information.
Despite the relative small size of the Jesus Christians (in relation to other groups of concern throughout the world), we have identified around 40 significant ex members (by name) who joined at some stage of the
Jesus Christians history. There are of course others who became associated with the group, but for shorter periods.
We are interested in hearing from all ex members so we can incorporate sociological aspects into our research and inquiry.
Some of the areas we would like to address from a human interest point of view are:
1.How were you recruited? What were the key triggers or factors that
influenced you to join? Did one piece of literature for example, convince you more than any other?
2.Why did you leave? What were the key factors that influenced you to leave? If you left for biblical reasons, what were they key scriptures that may have triggered a decision to leave or may have caused doubts in your mind as to the validity of the communities message?
3.What influence has leaving, had on your Christian faith? Have you become involved in another Christian Church or community or have you abandoned Christianity?
4.Since leaving have you had any professional counseling or medical intervention to address any issue, concerns or hurt experienced whilst you were a member?
5.In regards to your possessions. Did you make any attempt to recover any money property that you were required to give to the community? What was the outcome? Was there any formal contract signed, relinquishing your money or property to the community?
6. What is the current relationship with your family? Has it improved since leaving the community? What advice would you give to parents with members currently in the group, who may not be happy with their children’s involvement?
We know not all ex members are happy discussing some of the alleged illegal activities the group was or is alleged to be involved in, for fear of incriminating themselves.
Perhaps, some of the questions above (although still very personal)may be a little less threatening for those Ex members.
If you would like to provide some input, please feel free to personal message me. Thank you.
Regular readers of the Board will no doubt know, that I have embarked on a project to thoroughly research the Jesus Christians and their leader, David McKay.
I am grateful to a number of people who are assisting me with trying to obtain accurate, factual information. Readers will be aware that David McKay is often evasive when asked direct questions regarding his own background and the activities of his group or omits certain information.
Despite the relative small size of the Jesus Christians (in relation to other groups of concern throughout the world), we have identified around 40 significant ex members (by name) who joined at some stage of the
Jesus Christians history. There are of course others who became associated with the group, but for shorter periods.
We are interested in hearing from all ex members so we can incorporate sociological aspects into our research and inquiry.
Some of the areas we would like to address from a human interest point of view are:
1.How were you recruited? What were the key triggers or factors that
influenced you to join? Did one piece of literature for example, convince you more than any other?
2.Why did you leave? What were the key factors that influenced you to leave? If you left for biblical reasons, what were they key scriptures that may have triggered a decision to leave or may have caused doubts in your mind as to the validity of the communities message?
3.What influence has leaving, had on your Christian faith? Have you become involved in another Christian Church or community or have you abandoned Christianity?
4.Since leaving have you had any professional counseling or medical intervention to address any issue, concerns or hurt experienced whilst you were a member?
5.In regards to your possessions. Did you make any attempt to recover any money property that you were required to give to the community? What was the outcome? Was there any formal contract signed, relinquishing your money or property to the community?
6. What is the current relationship with your family? Has it improved since leaving the community? What advice would you give to parents with members currently in the group, who may not be happy with their children’s involvement?
We know not all ex members are happy discussing some of the alleged illegal activities the group was or is alleged to be involved in, for fear of incriminating themselves.
Perhaps, some of the questions above (although still very personal)may be a little less threatening for those Ex members.
If you would like to provide some input, please feel free to personal message me. Thank you.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: July 07, 2007 06:28AM
The Dude
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject: Documentary?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi guys...I didn't know where else to post so thought I'd re-emerge to ask here. Is it true that you JCs have produced your own documentary, which is intended as a kind of response to the Australian Story piece and the other negative press that your group has earned in the last several years?
Dave
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you know, Brian, we are loathe to answer your questions, because even if we told you the truth, you wouldn't believe it. But please do watch the newspapers (the entertainment pages, in particular) for new releases in the cinemas early next year!
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject: Documentary?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi guys...I didn't know where else to post so thought I'd re-emerge to ask here. Is it true that you JCs have produced your own documentary, which is intended as a kind of response to the Australian Story piece and the other negative press that your group has earned in the last several years?
Dave
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you know, Brian, we are loathe to answer your questions, because even if we told you the truth, you wouldn't believe it. But please do watch the newspapers (the entertainment pages, in particular) for new releases in the cinemas early next year!
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: July 14, 2007 12:52AM
Dear Zeusor,
Rather than just than yet another simple and snide attempt at a "mock-umentary" I think it would be far more fitting if the JesusChristians turned their hand to a full blown Shakespearean tragedy....
...can't you imagine how powerfully and vividly David would be able to flawlessly render Richard the Third, Macbeth or Shylock...
What utterly gripping viewing he would be able to make of them all....roles in which he could depict these infamous characters like no other....
(..but then again...one has to admit...it always helps to be "type" cast!!!!)
Rather than just than yet another simple and snide attempt at a "mock-umentary" I think it would be far more fitting if the JesusChristians turned their hand to a full blown Shakespearean tragedy....
...can't you imagine how powerfully and vividly David would be able to flawlessly render Richard the Third, Macbeth or Shylock...
What utterly gripping viewing he would be able to make of them all....roles in which he could depict these infamous characters like no other....
(..but then again...one has to admit...it always helps to be "type" cast!!!!)
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: July 14, 2007 11:41AM
Oh and also worthy of "comment" is Jeremy's remark that, "This hate is destroying you, Dude" directed at Zeusor....
It is of course pitiable to see Jeremys hate of the truth (hence the trite reptition of David tactics to attempt to undermine others psychologically by surreptiously fomenting whatever doubt he possibly can about themselves) now destroying him....(in the sense that whatever Christian ideals may have originally prompted him to join the JesusChristians have now well and truly been jettisioned in favour of whatever over-riding "exigencies" of the moment, David impresses uon him...)
But I must at least ask Jeremy, that if even if he HAS chosen to become the modern day equivalent of the "Scribes and Pharisees" of Christs times...could he please at least "entertain" us all with some new manner of smear campaign and not the mindless duplication of the same old barely disguised putrid smut that David has faithfully churned out for the last few decades...(in utter and wilful contradiction of the principles Christ championed in the Sermon on the Mount)
After all I must remind Jeremy that while "Alas for you Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces: for neither do you enter, nor do allow those entering to go in".....there is still the obligation that...."...for you traverse sea and land to make one proselyte and, when he becomes one, you make him a son of perdition twice worse than yourselves"...hence it is clearly scripturally incumbent (Matthew 23) upon Jeremy to be at least to be at least TWICE a " son of perdition" as David, ......(and not just to lazily indulge in the lame duplication of the pseudo-psychology in Davids' hateful muckraking.....)
....but there you are....hmm, although now that I think of it...a penchant to insidiously cause others to doubt themselves and to spread apprehension and msigivings though spiteful maligning others....
Oh thats it GOT IT!....Jeremy can play Othello's Iago in the upcoming JC blockbuster!! ....He's absolutely perfect for the part!!!
It is of course pitiable to see Jeremys hate of the truth (hence the trite reptition of David tactics to attempt to undermine others psychologically by surreptiously fomenting whatever doubt he possibly can about themselves) now destroying him....(in the sense that whatever Christian ideals may have originally prompted him to join the JesusChristians have now well and truly been jettisioned in favour of whatever over-riding "exigencies" of the moment, David impresses uon him...)
But I must at least ask Jeremy, that if even if he HAS chosen to become the modern day equivalent of the "Scribes and Pharisees" of Christs times...could he please at least "entertain" us all with some new manner of smear campaign and not the mindless duplication of the same old barely disguised putrid smut that David has faithfully churned out for the last few decades...(in utter and wilful contradiction of the principles Christ championed in the Sermon on the Mount)
After all I must remind Jeremy that while "Alas for you Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces: for neither do you enter, nor do allow those entering to go in".....there is still the obligation that...."...for you traverse sea and land to make one proselyte and, when he becomes one, you make him a son of perdition twice worse than yourselves"...hence it is clearly scripturally incumbent (Matthew 23) upon Jeremy to be at least to be at least TWICE a " son of perdition" as David, ......(and not just to lazily indulge in the lame duplication of the pseudo-psychology in Davids' hateful muckraking.....)
....but there you are....hmm, although now that I think of it...a penchant to insidiously cause others to doubt themselves and to spread apprehension and msigivings though spiteful maligning others....
Oh thats it GOT IT!....Jeremy can play Othello's Iago in the upcoming JC blockbuster!! ....He's absolutely perfect for the part!!!
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: July 29, 2007 12:00PM
Here’s a classic comment courtesy “Jinnythesquinny” from among the remarks in the earlier thread that Zeusor posted….(…thanks Zeusor!)
Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:25 am Post subject:
I’ve just read the last few pages of the RR thread on the JCs. Good grief.
It must be great to have so many stalkers, Dave, you must feel really special!
Some people have no sense of proportion whatsoever. That thread, were it not about my friends, would be one of the funniest things I've ever seen. A load of people united by irrational hatred, ranting and raving and saying how marvelous and democratic they are... when they've already demonstrated that anyone not in their anti-Dave mafia will be censored, berated, grilled and banned.
It's insane. There's serious mental problems being demonstrated over there. A kind of obsessive mania, fixated on Dave.
Maybe it's some kind of homo-erotic thing I just don't get...
Here we have the very Jinny who as one of the moderators of the JC completely deletes ENTIRE “adversary” emails (e.g. several of those courtesy of Apostate) from the JesusChristian site, …(thus at the very least….we have the pot calling the kettle black here!):
and who would no doubt IMMEDIATELY ban anyone from the site she moderates, were they to engage in the behaviour that led to her being “denied access” to this forum (…using multiple identities to better “get her message across” on the RR site)
But…Oh regardless..lets still try to somehow rise to the “challenge” presented here…How can we possibly respond to such a cutting denouement….the scathing criticism of us all(…ouch!..that was a “low” blow!!) …the caustic expose of our base motives…..{he says, involuntarily shuddering in hapless dismay}
But l’ve nevertheless tried to pen a little something in reply to Jinnys’ remarks….in similar fashion making observations on the contributions to the JC website……
I’ve just read the last few pages of the JC’s thread on the ex-members. Good grief.
It must be great to have so many admirers, Dave, you must feel really special!
Some people have no sense of proportion whatsoever. That thread, were it not about my friends, would be one of the funniest things I've ever seen. A load of people united by irrational hatred, ranting and raving and saying how marvelous and democratic they are... when they've already demonstrated that anyone not in their pro-Dave mafia will be censored, berated, grilled and banned.
It’s insane. There’s serious metal problems being demonstrated over there. A kind of obsessive mania, fixated on Dave.
Maybe it’s some kind of Freudian opedial fetish thing I just don’t get…
(and oh my God, well…we can only conjecture, can’t we…lack of a father figure and persistent broken relationships leading to an attraction to (…much, MUCH!) older men!!....Oh dear, poor Jinny!!)
(…..and to reiterate an earlier point on this forum..)
I don’t personally contribute to the JC website where I suspect Jinny and her ilk would edit my own contributions (“off camera”) in the event that I forwarded any material “uncomfortable” for David…..to then be able to present him with a trussed up little package of commentary that David could then triumphantly refute with ease….. a pattern of obnoxious behaviour that first made it itself public, during David’s attempts to emulate the (printed) newsletters of the “Family” in the middle 80’s…..the contributions of those who wrote in, were editorially “abbreviated”.. in order to misrepresent people and by undermining what they said, thus “stage manage” moral victories for David to better champion himself…..(How “low” is it possible for this man to go? ….David could limbo with the kitchen cockroaches!)
(..and anyone who troubles themselves to read the JC site needs to be aware that unless they have personally contacted the “contributors” to ensure that what they wrote actually made print….that the “debate on that forum is likely to have been dishonestly distorted where-ever it was deemed necessary…(..thus David’s encounter with a demon or the “Honest to Whom” series disappear at the flick of a switch if they are considered “bad press”)….David’s “image” of himself, and “history” of course, deliberately constructed for the purposes of “selling” his cause to those unfamiliar with his ways….)
Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:25 am Post subject:
I’ve just read the last few pages of the RR thread on the JCs. Good grief.
It must be great to have so many stalkers, Dave, you must feel really special!
Some people have no sense of proportion whatsoever. That thread, were it not about my friends, would be one of the funniest things I've ever seen. A load of people united by irrational hatred, ranting and raving and saying how marvelous and democratic they are... when they've already demonstrated that anyone not in their anti-Dave mafia will be censored, berated, grilled and banned.
It's insane. There's serious mental problems being demonstrated over there. A kind of obsessive mania, fixated on Dave.
Maybe it's some kind of homo-erotic thing I just don't get...
Here we have the very Jinny who as one of the moderators of the JC completely deletes ENTIRE “adversary” emails (e.g. several of those courtesy of Apostate) from the JesusChristian site, …(thus at the very least….we have the pot calling the kettle black here!):
and who would no doubt IMMEDIATELY ban anyone from the site she moderates, were they to engage in the behaviour that led to her being “denied access” to this forum (…using multiple identities to better “get her message across” on the RR site)
But…Oh regardless..lets still try to somehow rise to the “challenge” presented here…How can we possibly respond to such a cutting denouement….the scathing criticism of us all(…ouch!..that was a “low” blow!!) …the caustic expose of our base motives…..{he says, involuntarily shuddering in hapless dismay}
But l’ve nevertheless tried to pen a little something in reply to Jinnys’ remarks….in similar fashion making observations on the contributions to the JC website……
I’ve just read the last few pages of the JC’s thread on the ex-members. Good grief.
It must be great to have so many admirers, Dave, you must feel really special!
Some people have no sense of proportion whatsoever. That thread, were it not about my friends, would be one of the funniest things I've ever seen. A load of people united by irrational hatred, ranting and raving and saying how marvelous and democratic they are... when they've already demonstrated that anyone not in their pro-Dave mafia will be censored, berated, grilled and banned.
It’s insane. There’s serious metal problems being demonstrated over there. A kind of obsessive mania, fixated on Dave.
Maybe it’s some kind of Freudian opedial fetish thing I just don’t get…
(and oh my God, well…we can only conjecture, can’t we…lack of a father figure and persistent broken relationships leading to an attraction to (…much, MUCH!) older men!!....Oh dear, poor Jinny!!)
(…..and to reiterate an earlier point on this forum..)
I don’t personally contribute to the JC website where I suspect Jinny and her ilk would edit my own contributions (“off camera”) in the event that I forwarded any material “uncomfortable” for David…..to then be able to present him with a trussed up little package of commentary that David could then triumphantly refute with ease….. a pattern of obnoxious behaviour that first made it itself public, during David’s attempts to emulate the (printed) newsletters of the “Family” in the middle 80’s…..the contributions of those who wrote in, were editorially “abbreviated”.. in order to misrepresent people and by undermining what they said, thus “stage manage” moral victories for David to better champion himself…..(How “low” is it possible for this man to go? ….David could limbo with the kitchen cockroaches!)
(..and anyone who troubles themselves to read the JC site needs to be aware that unless they have personally contacted the “contributors” to ensure that what they wrote actually made print….that the “debate on that forum is likely to have been dishonestly distorted where-ever it was deemed necessary…(..thus David’s encounter with a demon or the “Honest to Whom” series disappear at the flick of a switch if they are considered “bad press”)….David’s “image” of himself, and “history” of course, deliberately constructed for the purposes of “selling” his cause to those unfamiliar with his ways….)
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
hello
()
Date: July 29, 2007 09:41PM
You're right, Malcolm.
However- let's also remember that Jinny suffered sexual abuse as a child- as she has freely admitted on the forum. She isn't yet someone who is happy or compassionate. Let's not be too hard on Jinny- I feel sorry for her.
Dave isn't a strong person. He is a weak person who has surrounded himself with bullies. Often a person who is bullied ( abused) goes on to do the same to others. Perhaps she has chosen Dave because subconsciously she has picked someone that could have stood up to her abuser.
Jinny is dysfunctional. However- she has picked a career that means she helps other people. She's not bad- she just hasn't fully individuated yet. She deserves pity rather than condemnation. I don't think she wants a sexual relationship with David- she's looking for a father figure. All abusive relationships teach a form of love. She just doesn't know any better.
However- let's also remember that Jinny suffered sexual abuse as a child- as she has freely admitted on the forum. She isn't yet someone who is happy or compassionate. Let's not be too hard on Jinny- I feel sorry for her.
Dave isn't a strong person. He is a weak person who has surrounded himself with bullies. Often a person who is bullied ( abused) goes on to do the same to others. Perhaps she has chosen Dave because subconsciously she has picked someone that could have stood up to her abuser.
Jinny is dysfunctional. However- she has picked a career that means she helps other people. She's not bad- she just hasn't fully individuated yet. She deserves pity rather than condemnation. I don't think she wants a sexual relationship with David- she's looking for a father figure. All abusive relationships teach a form of love. She just doesn't know any better.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Jack Oskar Larm
()
Date: August 01, 2007 05:46PM
With regard to outside moderation of this forum, I think the inhouse moderators do a very good job. There are fair guidelines we all follow or we must suffer the wrath of having to rethink our positions. And these guidelines, I believe, allow for a wide variety of debate and discussion.
A note to those who would tighten the thumbscrews even further - where is your sense of compassion. Hey, I personally don't believe in an absolute truth that can be communicated between 'damaged' individuals, and, including myself, we are all fragmented (whatever that might mean).
However, weighing the evidence before me, McKay is damaged beyond repair. Sorry. That's just my skewed perception based on much reading and personal experience.
To everyone else, keep up the good work! :)
A note to those who would tighten the thumbscrews even further - where is your sense of compassion. Hey, I personally don't believe in an absolute truth that can be communicated between 'damaged' individuals, and, including myself, we are all fragmented (whatever that might mean).
However, weighing the evidence before me, McKay is damaged beyond repair. Sorry. That's just my skewed perception based on much reading and personal experience.
To everyone else, keep up the good work! :)
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