Quote
Stoic
As far as "god will provide" and taking meals in open sewers, there is an apt Arabic proverb:

"Trust in God, but tie up your camel."

The gods are not greatly forgiving of wilful stupidity and tend not to bail out those who refuse to employ their god-given intellect in service of holding up their own end of the covenant.

Dave appears to have more faith in the Australian Government's ability to provide, in his own case, than in god's. Strange that he gives a different exhortation for his followers.

That's because in the Jesus Christians, everybody has to forsake all except for David and his consort.

It is written in the Book of Luke, Chapter 4:

9The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down from here.
10For it is written:
" 'He will command his angels concerning you
to guard you carefully;
11they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
12Jesus answered, "It says: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "
13When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2010 07:50PM by zeuszor.

Regarding Dave and Cherry living in Australian Government housing, my understanding was that they have not lived in it for quite some time. I believe they have been living in a bus. I thought that they had lost their Government Housing because of breaches of the terms, including using Public Housing for other purposes (Religious meetings and temporary accommodation for others). This information may be wrong, but it makes sense....

At the time Dave tried to make out that they had fled the premises because of fear of Zeuszor stalking them, but my information is that they were evicted....I cannot confirm that, but it is an interesting hypothesis...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2010 09:06PM by Blackhat.

Nice and appropriate biblical quote, Zeuszor. And I liked your arabic proverb, Stoic. Have you heard the sea faring version?
"Pray to God, but row towards the shore".

Also wanted to correct some possible misinformation from earlier. Thanks Blackhat for pointing out that Dave and Cherry are likely living in a camper van now, and may have been for some time. Still IMHO a better idea than hanging out in the cold without shelter or food, so hopefully Ross will continue to follow their sensible example.
And thanks to Kevin on the jcxjc site for additional information:

"Ross must be about 52 now, but has been anticipating getting older for some time"

He also adds in response to Malcolms' comment about someone catching hepatitis in India;

"I don't believe so.
Roland was reported as getting TB while in a Kenyan jail.Craig got typhoid at the sewer shit-in, but don't recall anyone getting hepatitis. I think we have all put ourselves in risky situations at one time or another."

He goes on to describe spending a night outside near Canberra, where he and Malcolm did not even have a sleeping bag, and the weather dropped to minus 7.

1 Corinthians 10

(Warnings From Israel’s History)

1For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert.

6Now these things occurred as examplesa to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry.”b 8We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9We should not test the Lord, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 10And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.

11These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. 12So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! 13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2010 05:16AM by zeuszor.

I have re-checked my information, and it seems Dave and Cherry's occupation of Public Housing came into question when it was reported that the premises were being used for religious meetings.

This, combined with other factors like a reunion in Kenya, contributed to them deciding to leave Public Housing.

Fancy them remaining in warm and cozy premises while Ross was shivering in a van! Maybe there was some peer pressure, and shame, involved in the decision by Dave and Cherry to live in a van too......

In fact, the way the weather is in Sydney and Melbourne right now, I'm glad of central heating and all the warmth that my Satanic dollars can buy on a night like this!

My heart also goes out to those desperate individuals who are sleeping rough tonight not by choice, and to the children with them.....

Thank you Blackhat and Yasmin (and Kevin) for those corrections....pardon me, for the misreported facts.

I was unaware that the Welfare Housing allocation had been discontinued for David and Cherry. The bus would likely be an "ordinary" existence for the both of them.....but certainly better than sleeping out.

Public Housing is primarily intended for those who have no, or very limited, means of support. I doubt that those with their very own international commercial operations (literature/CD sales) and an (unpaid) workforce of some 20 or more people, able to frequently jet about the globe, would quite meet the regulatory standards of admission, despite what some people might perversely claim about themselves....as obstinately and as repetitively as possible.

Now that I'm reminded of it, I believe that Yasmin (and Kevin) are quite accurate in that it was Typhoid that was contracted by the "sewerage dine-in" participants......(an exercise the point of which somehow escapes me....!)

....hmm..yes...the Canberra night was a little "miserable"....wouldn't want to be doing it again, at my age!...or Ross's age....!

...."liberated poverty" might be how McKay describes it....however I'm wondering if he continues to put his own health (and the health of others at some risk), whether or not he might be down the track, discreetly reported to an agency, possibly able to protect him from himself........none of the JC's appear much of a "healthy" sight these days!

I suppose though he's really only a "kidney sale" or two away, from assuring himself that it's all just "business as usual" again..!

(...in addition to whatever he can make for the "cause" out of Trevor's lifesavings...!)

I find this observation from Kimono saddening....

The snorkelling was also fantastic. I could have snorkelled all day. That was definitely the best experience.

[www.jesuschristians.com]

Saddening, because Kimono is not even aware of how "impoverished" her life is (such that even her perspective on things is diminished)......

I hold a diving qualifcation and have snorkelled on numerous occassions....one day it is likely, I too, will snorkel on Aust. Great Barrier Reef..... Kimono though will likely be lucky if in the future, she is even able to collect a few sea-shells on the beach!

I agree with Kimone that snorkelling is fantastic.

..but what for what many people is a readily accessible experience, she thinks is something extraordinarily special,

due to the fact she has had so little access to the fullness of "life," in her years of servitude to McKay....


She writes that she considers herself "enriched"...

while what she says to me,

is that she is really, really "impoverished"....

JESUS CHRISTIANS NEWSLETTER, #127, SEPTEMBER, 2010

What a month for news!

After more than a year of preparation, the week-long luxury cruise for ourselves and 22 relatives took place, preceded by a scenic and historic bus trip up the coast of New South Wales for our members from overseas, and followed by an an even more historic decision to make significant moves toward living completely without money.

Scenic New South Wales

On the trip from Sydney to Brisbane, members of the community stopped at several beaches, and visited the hippy village of Nimbin, the koala reserve in Newcastle, and the tiny village of Rappville, where the community first hit the headlines a quarter of a century ago. A trip to the local pub revealed that a mural by ex-member Kevin McKay is still on display there today.

The Luxury Cruise

Using a commuter bus, we were able to meet overseas arrivals at the airport, take them to hotels, and then get them all to the docks in time for the departure of the P&O luxury liner, Pacific Dawn, on August 7. It was a full-on week of indulgence with all you can eat meals three times a day, great shows in the International Lounge, swimming pools and a spa, exercise room, and everything from karaoke to trivia quizzes going on non-stop throughout the day.

At our first port of call, most of us went on a two-hour boat ride out to the Great Barrier Reef, where we were able to get up close and personal with the many colourful fish swimming amongst the coral. Besides snorkelling, there were rides on a semi-submersible and a glass bottomed boat, which sailed over places where the coral was no more than three feet below the surface of the water. Back on the ship, most of our guests participated in such things as a singalong, crossword puzzle quiz, and a lively discussion about our beliefs. The cruise directors made a closed bar available to us each morning for this purpose.

Joggers were startled early one morning when we conducted heats of our weekly two-mile phantom run on the jogging track at the very top of the ship. Some passengers joined in and others just cheered the runners on. We have more detailed reports on the cruise on our web site, including comments from those who attended. You can read it all here:

[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Living Without Money

Prior to the cruise we had held discussions about future plans for the community, and it was decided that we will take steps over the next few years to separate ourselves more fully from the economic system, including doing away with debit cards (We already function without credit cards.) and phasing out passports rather than take ones with a microchip imbedded in them. Our ultimate goal is to live without money at all, in preparation for the coming "mark of the beast", which we feel is an implantable microchip, to be used for all buying and selling at some time in the future.

We are just now putting the final touches to a video entitled "The Tyrant Within", which deals specifically with the Mark of the Beast. We hope to have it up on our web site shortly, and out on the streets by the end of the year. The video will include about half a dozen relevant music videos as well.

Survival Outreaches and Free Work

Teams of Jesus Christians varying in size from two to five, have been experimenting with longer faith outreaches, with some exciting results. Faith outreaches are ones where we forsake our vehicles, and take no money with us. We also do not distribute literature for donations. Each team makes their own rules on top of that, but some of the rules have included not asking for food, not going to homeless shelters, not raiding bins, and refusing any offers of money. Instead, our efforts have been focused on finding ways to reach out to others. These have included making signs offering "free hugs", offering to do free work for people, distributing DVDs for free, and having Bible studies with interested contacts. Some of the free work projects undertaken included holding a tutorial on website design, cleaning homes and basements, and moving furniture. Accommodation has ranged from sleeping under the stars to staying in a squat, private homes, student quarters at a university, a church, and sleeping on the floor of a launderette. Food has not been plentiful, but it has come from some interesting sources, and has been enough to keep us going. On two separate occasions, journalists heard about what we were doing, with one journalist interviewing Simon and Alf, and another interviewing Alan and Barry. In the interviews we were able to expound more about our lifestyle and why we live the way we do.

Skydiving Plans

Ross, Fran, Simon, and Bob had planned a skydiving outing in lieu of the snorkelling trip that others took on the cruise, but bad weather forced them to cancel. However, Fran's mother has offered to jump with him at a later date. Just shows the kind of adventurous families that our members come from!

Weightlifting

Meanwhile, over in Kenya, Karl has found his own way to create new challenges, by pouring cement into metal drums to make a set of weights for a weight-lifting program that is proving popular with the local male population.

Visit from Giddy

Giddy came by and stayed for five days at Takatifu Gardens. It was good to reconnect with him after some time away. We are hopeful that there will be more contact with him in future.

Numbers down

Kenyan volunteer numbers were down this month, due to it being harvest time, when younger Kenyans help their families with the work on the shambas. However, just before harvest (during the school holiday period) we had a good week or two of inreach, including numerous Bible studies and some work on memorising Bible verse cards.

Rescuing Babies

Local custom requires that 'taboo' babies born to close relatives be killed as punishment for the liasion. In one such case, the baby's parents called on us to rescue the baby by taking it to an orphanage, which we were able to do with very little delay for paperwork.

A German/Kenyan couple who have also worked with us as volunteers, rescued a 16-month-old orphan boy from his neglectful grandmother. He weighed only 5kg, looked like a 6-month-old baby, and was suffering from rickets (soft bones) caused by not getting milk in his diet.

Hospital Visits

While visiting a friend who had been admitted to the local hospital, we chatted with a few other patients in the same ward. This has now grown into regular visits. When we first went it seemed like everyone was out to get what they could from us, but now there is a much more friendly community-like atmosphere when we visit.

Growing Chokoes

We continue to give out sprouting chokoes to older primary students. We finished one school and have expanded to another. Students seem to really appreciate them, as the chokoes reproduce prolifically once planted.

New Articles

There are three new articles on the website. One by Joe, entitled "Tribulation Vision", has been reflected in the move toward less dependence on money.

[www.jesus-teachings.com]

The other two articles are by Dave. One, an inspirational, is called "Thine is the Power". It reminds us that we need help from God even to have faith.

[www.jesus-teachings.com]

A specific type of depression is covered in "Laziness and Depression", where one is not aware that they are depressed, although their inactivity may be affecting others.

Forum Threads

As usual there are a lot of new topics, although some threads have strayed away from the original topic. Here are a few:

Comments on the latest whipping trial (in support of Falun Dafa), posted by Dave.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

How to Play Werewolf, posted by Fran.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Curiosity about such things as Roland and Sue leaving the community, posted by Ian.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Dating the Enemy (on the media link), posted by Alf (which has veered into discussion of how we judge other people).
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Top Chefs go Bin-raiding (on the media section), posted by Jackie.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Hate site attempt to exploit Roland and Sue leaving, posted by Craig posing as someone else.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Some Good Quotes, posted by CrossReach, which switched to talk about what people would be willing to do for ten million dollars.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Compliments to JCs, posted by Pagan Respector.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Balance between spiritual and physical activities, posted by Ulrike (which has drifted off into discussions of the benefits of the cruise and of running).
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Worship the Creator, not Creation, posted by Trevor (which has drifted off into talk of healthy foods).
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Accepting Godly Counsel, posted by Peter (which has drifted into discussions about whether we need scriptures to back up things that we teach).
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

How to Handle Money Wisely, posted by Peter.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

How to Tell if You're One of the Two Witnesses, posted by Catherine.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

End-time Prophecy, posted by Joy.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Homosexuality and Other Abominations, posted by Dave (which has veered into discussion over whether the Bible is the Word of God).
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Jesus 101, posted by Peter, which deals with how much theology, etc. one needs to know to be a Christian.
[jesus-teachings.com]

Is Forsaking All a Once Only Experience? posted by CrossReach (Irish Dave).
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Making Excuses for Disobeying Jesus, posted by Peter.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Exploitation of workers in Africa, posted by Pagan Respector.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Dear Zeusor,

Thank you for the link....as David has gone to such pains to present the sea voyage as just so much time spent "ever so merrily",

...would I be right in supposing that after a combined SEVENTY years of faithful service, Roland, Sue and Daniel were denied a place?

I cannot see their names mentioned at any point....they were in Aust. weren't they, and could easily have been included in the "festivities"...


...but that spiteful old goat McKay vengefully trying to rub in their noses the consequences of "crossing him".

and reminding us all once more that anyone of the "cheery" JC folk on board, could be tossed aside, on the slightest whim of McKays' displeasure....