I was briefly reading on the Jesus Christian site when Red Yucca appeared and my first thought was that it was too much of a coincidence that this person popped up with that screen name at that particular time.

I read quite a bit of his postings and, spelling notwithstanding, I got the impression of an intelligent person unlikely to be impressed by Dave for very long, if at all.
I concluded that he was a clever plant, but given that Denise was so enraged by him, unlikely to be her.

It is doubtful that Dave McKay would be seriously cultivating a potential for recruitment via his public discussion forum.

He'd be much more low-key than that and would most likely try and cultivate prospects via email, preferring to avoid as much as possible the meddlesome interference of internet watchdogs and other critics.

It is my conclusion that redyucca is just as Stoic suggests, a clever plant or otherwise just some troll who is toying with them.

Here's something I found; maybe the Jesus Christians in Kenya could stage another proxy whipping to show their support for the victims of the Kenyan Albino-Eating Witch Doctor Cult:

[www.msnbc.msn.com]

I agree with you Oerlikon, that David likes to ply his trade "behind closed doors", however he may not have a choice about where redyucca chooses to make himself available....

I wonder what would have happened if The Tribulation had occurred during the $50,000 splurge on the cruise? Would Jesus have joined his only true faithful followers in the Hot Tub, in the bar, at the karaoke, drinking the last rider while the others looked on with awkward glances......?

Quote

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

brownt20 makes a hash of interpreting 1 Corinthians 10, where he says:

Quote

That's a great point that I was actually discussing with someone just the other day. If you go out on a faith outreach or into the wild to survive, EXPECTING to freeze or starve, then you'll probably find that it won't happen...considering your heart is in the right place and you're actively trying to follow God's will.

God may choose to let us be uncomfortable during these times but he won't give us more than we can take (1 Corinthians 10 )

[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Now that verse, as supplied on the Jesus Christian web site, says:

Quote

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

In other words, God will not give you more TEMPTATION than you can bear, not more HARDSHIP.

It is glib and trite, given what awful trials, illnesses and natural disasters some people are forced to either endure or succumb to in a painful way, to suggest that God will give the faithful a free ticket out of either freezing or starving.....

And given the way the Jesus Christians succumbed to the temptations of a sudden windfall of money, one can only think that they failed in withstanding the temptation such a situation presented them with.

No wonder they are now talking about austerity. I see guilt expressed between the lines of many posters after the hedonistic indulgence they all gave way to.....

Ross says:

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I need to face the fears of getting old and possibly sick as a result of sleeping rough. God knows what we can take of course, so we shouldn't worry about it.

[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Ross has been the work-horse of the failboat, and in many ways is the one being most abused. So now he has fears to face. He is too old to be a glamor leader, and too old to find himself in a position as leader. He has given it all to Dave McKay, and now he expresses fear about getting old and sick. Those fears are real, and I wonder what plans the Jesus Christians have in place for him when he is too old and/or sick to be the one doing all the hard work of driving convoys, living in a bus in a parking lot, and living on refuse?

Of course, the young recruits can't picture themselves as being old and sick and dependent, but I suggest that they should look to the provision for Ross as an example of how the Jesus Christian model works if The Tribulation doesn't come as soon as expected.....

Maybe that $50,000 could have been better spent on setting up something to look after Ross, and any other people who remain with Dave McKay into old age....

Or maybe they can be just thrown out into "The System" to be looked after, that system which they have so decried? What a sham!!!

Which System? The Kenyan one? Maybe Ross can be sent to Kenya in his dotage to be looked after by the Kenyan Government? Or are they depending as with Dave and Cherry, that he can revert to an Australian Government old age pension, and live off that?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2010 07:39PM by Blackhat.

Dear Blackhat,

It's quite imaginable that Ross will simply, prematurely kill himself, working, without a cent in return, for David. "Battered Wife Syndrome" doesn't lend itself to many happy endings.....and Ross will also find himself largely forgotten in a very short space of time.....

........consigned to the ignominy of being remembered(if at all) for all the things he "didn't do well enough"!

It's telling to witness how quickly the JC's turn their backs on their former "brothers" and "sisters"....

Robin and Roland were childhood friends who joined the cult at much the same point in 1981. Rob is now having to "rationalize" away to himself, why Roland didn't have "what it takes"....here I quote him second hand from the perspicuous observations of Sisi, [jcs.xjcs.org]

(Sisi's entire posting being well worth the read.......)

I think it is hard for parents who raise their kids in any community. It takes more discipline than if you were living on your own, because you may not be able to be involved in everything that is happening, and it is hard for kids to keep quiet when there is a meeting or something. Because people are living in close quarters, you have to make sure that your kids are not disturbing people or getting into their stuff. These are good things to learn, but they do add pressure on the parents, when their kids play up.
There are always a lot of opinions when it comes to kids, which the parents have to sift through and come up with what seems right, and I imagine that can be hard at times. There is also a constant tug of war between the parent's, kid's and community's needs.
There is always going to be someone who thinks you are too soft or too hard on your kids and they will be there to tell you that you should have done it another way, when something goes wrong too. There is no easy answer.

I think that Rols and Sue may be a bit relieved that they don't have to deal with that aspect of community life anymore.

It can also be a bit of an extra stress on people the community, living with other people's kids, especially when you do not have much control over the kid's behavior.

Ideally we should have enough unity to get through any of these kinds of problems, but they are can be challenging and sometimes we don't have it together enough to get through them.


There is no "tug of war" when the "community's need" are not driven by the self absorbed megalomania of a fourth rate demagogue, whose cult doesn't have "time" to waste on mere children....when they could be out "selling" him....

....The fact that the JC's cannot "incorporate" families with children, tells the world at large a great deal, about them.

Rob of course, is not even asking the right questions of himself here, but in order to accommodate "McKay think" has to "explain away" the departure of the Gianstefanis' by subtle reference to their failure to make the "necessary sacrifices.....

Robin will intone exactly the same nature of inane benediction should others choose to "abandon the calling".....

I note with amusement Joe telling us all how increasingly "stupid" he is becoming under McKays' tutelage.....

Joe works without any recompense, 24/7 selling membership in McKay's empire....not a soul in the JC's will shed a tear for him, when (like Roland, Sue, Daniel, Hosea, Grace, or Vicki and her children....to name only a few more recent departures) he chooses to leave.....or the "choice" is made for him.

Joe has not researched the background or the history of the fink he "worships" (here I employ Davids' definition that who you give your time to, you "worship".....and purposely remains ignorant!!

[www.jesuschristians.com]

As a community, we have had some recent talks about moving away from money, as we move closer to the Tribulation. We see people like Suelo (who has been living moneyless for a decade now) and Mark Boyle (who has done much the same in the UK for about 2 years now) as spiritual giants when it comes to testifying with their lives the fact that you don’t need money to survive. And, while we do still use money as a group at this stage to make us more efficient in getting the message out, we see ourselves soon doing without money altogether as a form of currency to buy or sell with. We see ourselves soon becoming a ‘zero-currency community’.

David's eldest daughter, Sheri and her husband Boyd, unceremoniously dumped Mckay decades ago....and have remained true to the "virtuous life of poverty" ever since, far, far longer, and more successfully than the nobodies (Suelo and Boyle) that are quoted as examples....Sheri and her husband are "airbrushed out of history" in order to prevent those in servitude in McKay having their eyes potentially opened to the murky history of the fraud.....

Suelo and Boyle are quoted because they do not threaten David's "house of cards".....

Joe KNOWS nothing.....

....and his UTTER IGNORANCE of the facts behind McKay

....(being precisely why he is in the cult)....

...make it a "tribulation" to read this pretense of "Godly counsel"

even if it is a matter of which (for a very brief period in his life)......

....he is very stupidly "proud"........

In my opinion,it is deeply worrying to hear Ross ( apparently in his 60's?) talking of perhaps going out into the cold without food, and possibly having health problems because of it.
This kind of experience obviously favors the young and healthy.
I'm assuming that Dave McKay ( who has in the past on this thread been mentioned as living in an apartment with his wife, not in a bus, ) is not going to personally take part in the outreach of sleeping outdoors in the cold without shelter or food. If he ( in my opinion sensibly) is not going to undertake this himself,then one hopes that other older members will also be encouraged to make the same choice.
With regard to the theory that God will of course provide, one has to wonder whether a kindly God is really best worshipped by having an old man go out into the cold without food to see if he survives.
Certainly in ancient times , that was a practice of some cultures, but not generally ones who considered themselves to be Christians.

Faith is a wonderful thing, but I watched people in my group who had deep faith, often get badly hurt because they relied on a miracle to support them doing basically foolish things. I hope that if Ross does end up in the cold without food, that God can help guide him to warmth and people who would show a little more care for his welfare.

I am deeply hoping that in fact this is all just idle speculation and that I have misunderstood what is being suggested.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2010 07:45AM by yasmin.

Roland was one (among several) of the JC's who picked up hepatitus, when they staged the stunt in India, eating off a table, deliberately placed in the middle of an open sewer, wasn't he..... while I'd support in principle the idea that "God will provide", I personally wouldn't want to "force" God's hands, by deliberately placing myself in circumstances of hardship....

....the JC forum is a public space from which to loudly assert one's committment to the "cause" (for the purposes of winning kudos from McKay...which serves as "hard currency" in the JC's)....and Joe may be talking through his hat here....

...although it seems to me,

...that David and Cherry might then like to donate the comfortable little home that they have provided for them by the Australian Govt. (whom they have rorted many a year) for Ross' use, while they bravely "lead the troops into battle" by sleeping out, rough in litnessing outreaches....after all, as David constantly reminds us, he has the "faith" that his many critics lack......

As far as "god will provide" and taking meals in open sewers, there is an apt Arabic proverb:

"Trust in God, but tie up your camel."

The gods are not greatly forgiving of wilful stupidity and tend not to bail out those who refuse to employ their god-given intellect in service of holding up their own end of the covenant.

Dave appears to have more faith in the Australian Government's ability to provide, in his own case, than in god's. Strange that he gives a different exhortation for his followers.