Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: January 24, 2010 10:09AM
Dear Zeusor,
"Daves' Gate" is a possibllity I'd envisage, if David knew that he was close to literal death and that the "membership drive" was going badly enough that he feared his empire wouldn't continue after his death (...ultimately everone is "expendable" for the "greater cause" aren't they!)....and a major media stunt would his way of petulantly thumbing his nose at the ungrateful world who so spurned him.....
....while he has breath in his body and close to 20 "manservants" to cater to his every fetish (selling his literature and vicarously proclaiming his fame throughout the world...)...he won't want the situation to end at all any time soon...."persectution" is simply David cyring wolf in order to elicit sympathy for himself.....
Here are some recent postings....(it's amusing in this thread to watch the JC members take the "cue" from David so readily in relation to the direction of the conversation be that "banter" or "admonition" or "thoughtful insight" as it happens that he intimates.....)
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Re: Just a little more....... the road to backsliding... 24/01/2010 04:54
I would say that love of "mammon" IS related to excessive eating (and I say that as an excessive eater). I think this thread started from a conversation that Ross and I were having about why people backslide. We were talking about things like Kevin wanting power,
(Insert: I have never found Kevin to be someone "wanting power"...this despicable assertion is simply hypocritical "projection" from the self absorbed leader of a break way cult from the COGJ's)
or a married person wanting sex
Insert: Yes that is scriptural. David McKays fear of couples finding it within themselves to usurp him and his hatred of the presences of children, "stealing" time from devotion to him, is NOT. The JC ban on marriage marks them as a cult singled out, straight out of the bilbe!) 1st Tim 4:3
, or singles just wanting the freedom to make their own decisions.
Insert: David makes his "own decisions" (which are then duly endoresed by his "yes men", in order that he can lie to himself that he doesn't) but is threated by others who do so....this is a "catch all" critique from a third rate intellect.....
Ross could not see how the love of money was the root of such backsliding.
(Insert: After all these decades, David still finds it necessary to consisently "point out" your failures Ross....that's the unfortunate consequence of suffering from "battered wife" syndrome....every time you go back to the man abusing you, you just get beaten the worse!)
But I pointed out that at the root of it all was the feeling (even if it was not clear to the backslider at the time), that they would be able to do things that cost money (e.g. phone friends, give gifts, eat what they want, or even take over what they thought was their rightful inheritance in Kevin's case), and it was all quite subtly linked to money without much overt mention of it.
They each leave saying that they will continue to live by faith, etc. but it doesn't take long before they realise that the more money they make, the more freedom they have to indulge themselves, until soon it's buying Harley Davidsons and taking five-star trips around the world.
I'm not saying that we don't have to deal with such things while still within the community, but there is an accountability that keeps things in check, and that is what people instinctively want "freedom" from when they start backsliding.
Dave
JC Member
Re: Just a little more....... the road to backsliding... 24/01/2010 10:43
I think it is very clear that when people join a mainstream church there is very little accountability about the way people spend their money. It is regarded as a private matter which noone else and particularly the church should interfere with. Any group that does is labelled as a cult, and that is because it dares to challenge the ultimate in selfish individualism on which our society is based.
I have no doubt the reason most people will not join is because they want to keep full private control of their money supply. And once they realise that is what we teach against they don't want to know us.
Please note: although no board code and smiley buttons are shown, they are still usable.
Ross
JC Member
Re: Just a little more....... the road to backsliding... 24/01/2010 11:45
I think that the natural thinking of most people who hear that we share everything in common (and that we are all accountable for what we spend) is summed up in something a guy said to me in an email last week, i.e. "I assume that means that we give it all to you." I think he was quite startled to discover that NO ONE gives ANYTHING to me. I think that everyone giving to the leader (at least a little bit) is the norm in most organisations. Of course Cherry and I do have the elite status of being the only pensioners in the community, which makes us quite rich; but even that we have to give an account for each week.
Anyway, my point is that it may not just be that people don't want to be accountable themselves; some may be genuinely worried that it's all a scam.
Dave
Insert: IT"S A SCAM.....indeed eeveryone DOES give the money to the man with "controlling interests".
No-one is "free" to choose NOT to distribute Davids writings, or to disregard the quota of distribution expected of them or to ever request "compensation" for the hundreds of thousands of hours spend making David's nightmare a preactical reality. There are NO joint bank acounts, all major assets may be traced bakc to David (i.e the land in Kenya is in the name of his progeny or close relative), no audits are held. those who leave are unceremonioulsy deprived of everything and nothing is returned to them...
It is an "unconscionable contract" which David McKay perpetrates and for which he should be charged and jailed.
Where did the "rot" set in???
Well I guess in David's case it's a mix of love of "mammon" and love of "self".....while there may be no "women and yachts" (like Ron Hubbard!)....he is able to indulge himself in having HIS written work peddled throughout the world and can always look back on his small coterie of "devoted fans' when need be.....
Let me be clear! ...as I have persistently alleged, David Mckay is not simply a criminal.....he is in fact criminally insane!!
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2010 10:26AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.
"Daves' Gate" is a possibllity I'd envisage, if David knew that he was close to literal death and that the "membership drive" was going badly enough that he feared his empire wouldn't continue after his death (...ultimately everone is "expendable" for the "greater cause" aren't they!)....and a major media stunt would his way of petulantly thumbing his nose at the ungrateful world who so spurned him.....
....while he has breath in his body and close to 20 "manservants" to cater to his every fetish (selling his literature and vicarously proclaiming his fame throughout the world...)...he won't want the situation to end at all any time soon...."persectution" is simply David cyring wolf in order to elicit sympathy for himself.....
Here are some recent postings....(it's amusing in this thread to watch the JC members take the "cue" from David so readily in relation to the direction of the conversation be that "banter" or "admonition" or "thoughtful insight" as it happens that he intimates.....)
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Re: Just a little more....... the road to backsliding... 24/01/2010 04:54
I would say that love of "mammon" IS related to excessive eating (and I say that as an excessive eater). I think this thread started from a conversation that Ross and I were having about why people backslide. We were talking about things like Kevin wanting power,
(Insert: I have never found Kevin to be someone "wanting power"...this despicable assertion is simply hypocritical "projection" from the self absorbed leader of a break way cult from the COGJ's)
or a married person wanting sex
Insert: Yes that is scriptural. David McKays fear of couples finding it within themselves to usurp him and his hatred of the presences of children, "stealing" time from devotion to him, is NOT. The JC ban on marriage marks them as a cult singled out, straight out of the bilbe!) 1st Tim 4:3
, or singles just wanting the freedom to make their own decisions.
Insert: David makes his "own decisions" (which are then duly endoresed by his "yes men", in order that he can lie to himself that he doesn't) but is threated by others who do so....this is a "catch all" critique from a third rate intellect.....
Ross could not see how the love of money was the root of such backsliding.
(Insert: After all these decades, David still finds it necessary to consisently "point out" your failures Ross....that's the unfortunate consequence of suffering from "battered wife" syndrome....every time you go back to the man abusing you, you just get beaten the worse!)
But I pointed out that at the root of it all was the feeling (even if it was not clear to the backslider at the time), that they would be able to do things that cost money (e.g. phone friends, give gifts, eat what they want, or even take over what they thought was their rightful inheritance in Kevin's case), and it was all quite subtly linked to money without much overt mention of it.
They each leave saying that they will continue to live by faith, etc. but it doesn't take long before they realise that the more money they make, the more freedom they have to indulge themselves, until soon it's buying Harley Davidsons and taking five-star trips around the world.
I'm not saying that we don't have to deal with such things while still within the community, but there is an accountability that keeps things in check, and that is what people instinctively want "freedom" from when they start backsliding.
Dave
JC Member
Re: Just a little more....... the road to backsliding... 24/01/2010 10:43
I think it is very clear that when people join a mainstream church there is very little accountability about the way people spend their money. It is regarded as a private matter which noone else and particularly the church should interfere with. Any group that does is labelled as a cult, and that is because it dares to challenge the ultimate in selfish individualism on which our society is based.
I have no doubt the reason most people will not join is because they want to keep full private control of their money supply. And once they realise that is what we teach against they don't want to know us.
Please note: although no board code and smiley buttons are shown, they are still usable.
Ross
JC Member
Re: Just a little more....... the road to backsliding... 24/01/2010 11:45
I think that the natural thinking of most people who hear that we share everything in common (and that we are all accountable for what we spend) is summed up in something a guy said to me in an email last week, i.e. "I assume that means that we give it all to you." I think he was quite startled to discover that NO ONE gives ANYTHING to me. I think that everyone giving to the leader (at least a little bit) is the norm in most organisations. Of course Cherry and I do have the elite status of being the only pensioners in the community, which makes us quite rich; but even that we have to give an account for each week.
Anyway, my point is that it may not just be that people don't want to be accountable themselves; some may be genuinely worried that it's all a scam.
Dave
Insert: IT"S A SCAM.....indeed eeveryone DOES give the money to the man with "controlling interests".
No-one is "free" to choose NOT to distribute Davids writings, or to disregard the quota of distribution expected of them or to ever request "compensation" for the hundreds of thousands of hours spend making David's nightmare a preactical reality. There are NO joint bank acounts, all major assets may be traced bakc to David (i.e the land in Kenya is in the name of his progeny or close relative), no audits are held. those who leave are unceremonioulsy deprived of everything and nothing is returned to them...
It is an "unconscionable contract" which David McKay perpetrates and for which he should be charged and jailed.
Where did the "rot" set in???
Well I guess in David's case it's a mix of love of "mammon" and love of "self".....while there may be no "women and yachts" (like Ron Hubbard!)....he is able to indulge himself in having HIS written work peddled throughout the world and can always look back on his small coterie of "devoted fans' when need be.....
Let me be clear! ...as I have persistently alleged, David Mckay is not simply a criminal.....he is in fact criminally insane!!
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2010 10:26AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: January 25, 2010 08:36PM
The question has been recently postulated over exactly what David might mean by this latest posting;
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Re: Just a little more....... the road to backsliding... 25/01/2010 06:35
"I do agree that about the only way we can understand others if to observe oursleves, and so there is always going to be a hint of projection. Probably the best protection against projection is just a willingness to rationally examine the evidence. For example, I don't think that all of our critics are projecting in an extreme area (greed, lust for power, sex fantasies, etc), like they have a serious problem in one area of their lives, and so they are being somehwt rational with one exception....they often see evil everywhere!( And maybe that says something about them too! Ha)"
It follows an earlier and longer rant where David sought to sought fit to claim that whoever among us makes a criticism of McKay whatsoever, only does so because we ourselves are guilty of that very act.
(i.e The usual cultic practice of trying to sow self-doubt in it's critics with circular (il)logic questioning their "right" to engage in criticism of the leadership and practices of the cult)
Is there any futher meaning to be duly gleaned from his subsequent posting then....?
David's latest posting is really equally as clear, as far as I see it. It is an unequivocal subliminal message, "shouted" at top of his subconsious voice, to the world at large. David is simply informing us that he is utterly demented. He cannot see out of the confines of his own self-absorbed lunacy, hence he can produce volumes of self referencing inane nonsense and yet, consider it "logical" to himself.
As noted in one of the "quotes" which feature on the JC homepage, "Any person fighting against their own conscience is risking serious mental damage"....I couldn't have put it better myself!
After decades crucifying his own conscience, the poor man is now just pleading for help without knowing it.....as David has though put himself in a position where nobody is able to help him, he will simply die in due course, as an angry, lonely and crazed old man.
I have thus put some thought to a suitable obituary (which may serve as a waring to others who elect to live thier lives as he has) to be placed on his tombstone (scultpted in the shape of a piscine as I've mentioned in previous pages for obvious reasons!), in the dramatic oratory to which David so aspires......
(...Ahem)
"Nothing in his life became him like the leaving it; he died as one that had been studied in his death to throw away the dearest thing he owed, as 't were a careless trifle". - ( Quote Act I, Sc. IV Macbeth).
(....and with some suitably wistful "muzak" emanating from the darkly broodingly, fallen angel to one side....
[www.youtube.com] )
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Re: Just a little more....... the road to backsliding... 25/01/2010 06:35
"I do agree that about the only way we can understand others if to observe oursleves, and so there is always going to be a hint of projection. Probably the best protection against projection is just a willingness to rationally examine the evidence. For example, I don't think that all of our critics are projecting in an extreme area (greed, lust for power, sex fantasies, etc), like they have a serious problem in one area of their lives, and so they are being somehwt rational with one exception....they often see evil everywhere!( And maybe that says something about them too! Ha)"
It follows an earlier and longer rant where David sought to sought fit to claim that whoever among us makes a criticism of McKay whatsoever, only does so because we ourselves are guilty of that very act.
(i.e The usual cultic practice of trying to sow self-doubt in it's critics with circular (il)logic questioning their "right" to engage in criticism of the leadership and practices of the cult)
Is there any futher meaning to be duly gleaned from his subsequent posting then....?
David's latest posting is really equally as clear, as far as I see it. It is an unequivocal subliminal message, "shouted" at top of his subconsious voice, to the world at large. David is simply informing us that he is utterly demented. He cannot see out of the confines of his own self-absorbed lunacy, hence he can produce volumes of self referencing inane nonsense and yet, consider it "logical" to himself.
As noted in one of the "quotes" which feature on the JC homepage, "Any person fighting against their own conscience is risking serious mental damage"....I couldn't have put it better myself!
After decades crucifying his own conscience, the poor man is now just pleading for help without knowing it.....as David has though put himself in a position where nobody is able to help him, he will simply die in due course, as an angry, lonely and crazed old man.
I have thus put some thought to a suitable obituary (which may serve as a waring to others who elect to live thier lives as he has) to be placed on his tombstone (scultpted in the shape of a piscine as I've mentioned in previous pages for obvious reasons!), in the dramatic oratory to which David so aspires......
(...Ahem)
"Nothing in his life became him like the leaving it; he died as one that had been studied in his death to throw away the dearest thing he owed, as 't were a careless trifle". - ( Quote Act I, Sc. IV Macbeth).
(....and with some suitably wistful "muzak" emanating from the darkly broodingly, fallen angel to one side....
[www.youtube.com] )
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: January 27, 2010 02:43AM
PUBLIC WARNING
Those who may be tempted to "chat with a JC" on the JesusChristian homepage should NOT assume that the contents of any discussion they may have , are in any way personal or private, despite what they might have been led to believe. The continued abuse of such discussion though does make one wonder how close we might be to one of these days, laying charges against Apostle McKay.
I believe that David McKay has actually officially registered thee name of his religious empire under the Australian Corporations Act, with a NSW address. As he and Cherry remain Australian citizens, this would of course make them subject to the laws of the State of New Wales in Australia. The computing (keyboard) input into the JesusChristian website can of course be easily traced back to the computer that David himself employs.
Looking once again at the NSW Crimes Act (1900), while I have long thought in general the fraud McKay perpetrates should make him subject to Subdivision 10 s.178BA (Obtaining money by deception) and Subdivision 11 s.178BB (Obtaining money by false statements) and Subdivision 13 s.179 False pretences.....i.e. the "forsake all" requirements whereby one secures "life-long" membership into the JesusChristians and subsequent eternal salvation...with no contractural protection, shareholder privledges, voting rights (by secret ballot), independant audit of the books or (legally enforceable) joint ownership of the goods and chattels of the JesusChristians.
...the current unconscionable conduct on the part of the Jesus Christians does bring some other statutes to mind.
Clearly the JesusChristians are "Inducing persons to enter into certain arrangements by misleading statements" (Subdivision 14 s.185A) with the intent then of commiting a "Blackmail Offence" (Division 2, Part 4B s.249K) with "Menaces" (s.249) of "Criminal Defamation (Division 2, s.529) through "False and Misleading information" that amount to "False Accusations" (Division 2, s.314).....the fundamental principle of law being of course that,
307B False or misleading information
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if:
(a) the person gives information to another person, and
(b) the person does so knowing that the information:
(i) is false or misleading, or
(ii) omits any matter or thing without which the information is misleading,
(partial extract........[www.austlii.edu.au] )
The "omission" of contextural material....being a favourite method of deceit for David!
We would seem to be so close to a possible conviction.....to my reading of the law, the JesusChristians currently would only just be technically "within" the law (morally they have been outside it for decades) as many of the above statutes apply to obligations relevant to the operation of statutory authorities of to the larceny of tangible property or the printed written word and other restrictions in their application......
I request that those who are slandered by McKay reprinting (without permission!) extracts of "private conversations" with him please retain the details of these. Possibly more stringent laws do exist for the commerical activities of business enterprises.....a category under which I believe that a man with enough money to throw about engaging Scientology lawyers to harangue the parents of those he has entrapped, deserves to fall under.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2010 02:54AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.
Those who may be tempted to "chat with a JC" on the JesusChristian homepage should NOT assume that the contents of any discussion they may have , are in any way personal or private, despite what they might have been led to believe. The continued abuse of such discussion though does make one wonder how close we might be to one of these days, laying charges against Apostle McKay.
I believe that David McKay has actually officially registered thee name of his religious empire under the Australian Corporations Act, with a NSW address. As he and Cherry remain Australian citizens, this would of course make them subject to the laws of the State of New Wales in Australia. The computing (keyboard) input into the JesusChristian website can of course be easily traced back to the computer that David himself employs.
Looking once again at the NSW Crimes Act (1900), while I have long thought in general the fraud McKay perpetrates should make him subject to Subdivision 10 s.178BA (Obtaining money by deception) and Subdivision 11 s.178BB (Obtaining money by false statements) and Subdivision 13 s.179 False pretences.....i.e. the "forsake all" requirements whereby one secures "life-long" membership into the JesusChristians and subsequent eternal salvation...with no contractural protection, shareholder privledges, voting rights (by secret ballot), independant audit of the books or (legally enforceable) joint ownership of the goods and chattels of the JesusChristians.
...the current unconscionable conduct on the part of the Jesus Christians does bring some other statutes to mind.
Clearly the JesusChristians are "Inducing persons to enter into certain arrangements by misleading statements" (Subdivision 14 s.185A) with the intent then of commiting a "Blackmail Offence" (Division 2, Part 4B s.249K) with "Menaces" (s.249) of "Criminal Defamation (Division 2, s.529) through "False and Misleading information" that amount to "False Accusations" (Division 2, s.314).....the fundamental principle of law being of course that,
307B False or misleading information
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if:
(a) the person gives information to another person, and
(b) the person does so knowing that the information:
(i) is false or misleading, or
(ii) omits any matter or thing without which the information is misleading,
(partial extract........[www.austlii.edu.au] )
The "omission" of contextural material....being a favourite method of deceit for David!
We would seem to be so close to a possible conviction.....to my reading of the law, the JesusChristians currently would only just be technically "within" the law (morally they have been outside it for decades) as many of the above statutes apply to obligations relevant to the operation of statutory authorities of to the larceny of tangible property or the printed written word and other restrictions in their application......
I request that those who are slandered by McKay reprinting (without permission!) extracts of "private conversations" with him please retain the details of these. Possibly more stringent laws do exist for the commerical activities of business enterprises.....a category under which I believe that a man with enough money to throw about engaging Scientology lawyers to harangue the parents of those he has entrapped, deserves to fall under.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2010 02:54AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: February 01, 2010 07:26PM
Funny how they never sent me January's newsletter. Anyway, here is February's:
JESUS CHRISTIANS NEWSLETTER, FEBRUARY, 2010.
EXPERIMENTS
All around the world we have been experimenting with ways to get more books out, even if it means getting less in donations. Fran and Kim had an exciting marathon of sorts in Eldoret (home of some of the best marathon runners in the world), when they distributed 700 books, using the "vortex" method, where they do a lot of shouting, and use the crowd to draw a bigger crowd.
In California there were some interesting experiments with distributing on the busy city trains, and giving out sets of three books to students on campus at several universities. On one train, Jayme ran into one of the thugs "hired" by Joe's family to pose as his friends for the Fox News report. The guy started shouting to everyone on the train that Jayme was from a "brainwashing cult", so Jayme quietly asked about the murder attempt on Reinhard, and kept asking until "Lamar" backed away. Fortunately, the crowd on the train were more willing to accept Jayme's account of things than Lamar's.
Ross and Barry opted for longer hours during the ever-popular City of Sydney Festivals during the month, as well as doing some train distributing. Near the end of the month they shifted their outreach to Melbourne, so Ross could visit his mother there. Melbourne is the centre of attention in Australia at the moment, with the Australian Open Tennis Championships being fought out there, a la Serena Williams and Roger Federer.
Simon joined the U.K. team from Kenya, helping them to distribute books and DVDs there, where the team has been experimenting with dist'g on trains and on intersections where vehicles bank up at traffic lights. Simon has been fitting in well with the cold weather, despite being used to Kenyan conditions.
FLOODS IN L.A.
It has made international news that the sunshine state is turning into the tropics with unprecedented heavy rains in California, causing Governor Arnold Schwarzeneggar to declare a state of emergency in several areas. For two weeks this hampered distributing efforts because the city is not designed for cover from heavy rain.
The city of Long Beach experienced floods of three feet or more, which can be seen on this short youtube video:
[www.youtube.com]
WEB SITE DEVELOPMENTS
Our web site crashed early in the months, but Fran and Rob have it up and running again. Fran is busily putting together a file of controversial media coverage (including a near book-length report from Joe on his experiences.). Hopefully all of that will be available to view by next month.
WHIPPING STARS INTERVIEWED
On a trip to Nairobi, Fran met up with and did a taped video interview with Nicholas and Debra. Nicholas was the volunteer who was whipped for stealing more than three years ago, and Debra was the person who did the whipping. Both talked positively about the experience. Nicholas said that it had helped to reform his life. He expressed thanks to Fran for offering to take the punishment on his behalf, even though Nicholas ended up choosing to take the punishment himself. Debra is now working at a hospital clinic.
MUSIC CAREER FOR GD
Fran, Rob, and Joe also met up with GD while in Nairobi. GD is now actively pursuing a career in music. People may remember him from his work on "When Love Becomes our Philosophy", which Fran wrote for him last year. GD has been rooming with Casey in Nairobi. Casey consistently gets out 800 books a week on the crowded city buses, as well as running a hospital visitation program there.
SHOOTING CLOSE CALL
Another highlight of the trip to Nairobi was when shooting broke out near where Fran, Rob, and Joe were standing in a crowded area of town. Police were shooting "over the heads" of Muslim protesters, in an effort to disperse the crowd, but still, somehow, two people died as a result of police bullets.
KENYA LEADERSHIP HANDOVER
Fran and Kim handed over leadership of the Kenya team to Joe and Alf near the start of the month. This is in preparation for the couple's departure, after four years of service in Kenya. They will be greatly missed when they leave, both by the local team, and by the local people.
INTERNATIONAL VOLUNTEERS:
School is back in session, and volunteers this month have included a woman from Sovakia, a couple from Australia, and some freegans from Finland. Excellent progress is being made by the school in their reading, no doubt largely due to the flashcard program. Several of the volunteers have expressed surprise at how quickly the pupils are learning.
A Canadian walking through the village was told about our centre, and so he popped in and stayed for a week, providing some enthusiastic and cheerful support while there.
NEW SONG:
Joe and Fran produced a new rap song called "Don't Take The Mark!", which can be accessed via our music page through our website, or by going directly to:
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
OLD FRIENDS
Paul and Ulrike have reconnected with some long-term friends in the Los Angeles area, including an elderly Quaker couple and a friend who has been video documenting the JCs for many years.
DENTAL NEEDS
The long-term effects of all the sweets that we have rescued from bins over the years have resulted in quite a few cavities for our U.S. team. So they have kept been fortunate to discover a very cheap dental service with friendly staff who have been kept busy restoring their teeth back to better days.
NEW ARTICLES:
"You're Never Gonna Believe This!" Read it and see if it's true:
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
FORUM THREADS:
"Just a Little More... the Road to Backsliding" started by Ross.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Comparisons between Baal-worship and Catholicism, started by Joy.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Solar Power Considerations, started by Reinhard.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Baseball star forsake a pro career for God, started by Joe.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Visiting the Needy, started by Eto'o
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Apophis Meteor Coming our Way, started by Adstaragain
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Not Much Privacy on Facebook, started by Dave
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Who Wants the Truth? started by Ali
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
JESUS CHRISTIANS NEWSLETTER, FEBRUARY, 2010.
EXPERIMENTS
All around the world we have been experimenting with ways to get more books out, even if it means getting less in donations. Fran and Kim had an exciting marathon of sorts in Eldoret (home of some of the best marathon runners in the world), when they distributed 700 books, using the "vortex" method, where they do a lot of shouting, and use the crowd to draw a bigger crowd.
In California there were some interesting experiments with distributing on the busy city trains, and giving out sets of three books to students on campus at several universities. On one train, Jayme ran into one of the thugs "hired" by Joe's family to pose as his friends for the Fox News report. The guy started shouting to everyone on the train that Jayme was from a "brainwashing cult", so Jayme quietly asked about the murder attempt on Reinhard, and kept asking until "Lamar" backed away. Fortunately, the crowd on the train were more willing to accept Jayme's account of things than Lamar's.
Ross and Barry opted for longer hours during the ever-popular City of Sydney Festivals during the month, as well as doing some train distributing. Near the end of the month they shifted their outreach to Melbourne, so Ross could visit his mother there. Melbourne is the centre of attention in Australia at the moment, with the Australian Open Tennis Championships being fought out there, a la Serena Williams and Roger Federer.
Simon joined the U.K. team from Kenya, helping them to distribute books and DVDs there, where the team has been experimenting with dist'g on trains and on intersections where vehicles bank up at traffic lights. Simon has been fitting in well with the cold weather, despite being used to Kenyan conditions.
FLOODS IN L.A.
It has made international news that the sunshine state is turning into the tropics with unprecedented heavy rains in California, causing Governor Arnold Schwarzeneggar to declare a state of emergency in several areas. For two weeks this hampered distributing efforts because the city is not designed for cover from heavy rain.
The city of Long Beach experienced floods of three feet or more, which can be seen on this short youtube video:
[www.youtube.com]
WEB SITE DEVELOPMENTS
Our web site crashed early in the months, but Fran and Rob have it up and running again. Fran is busily putting together a file of controversial media coverage (including a near book-length report from Joe on his experiences.). Hopefully all of that will be available to view by next month.
WHIPPING STARS INTERVIEWED
On a trip to Nairobi, Fran met up with and did a taped video interview with Nicholas and Debra. Nicholas was the volunteer who was whipped for stealing more than three years ago, and Debra was the person who did the whipping. Both talked positively about the experience. Nicholas said that it had helped to reform his life. He expressed thanks to Fran for offering to take the punishment on his behalf, even though Nicholas ended up choosing to take the punishment himself. Debra is now working at a hospital clinic.
MUSIC CAREER FOR GD
Fran, Rob, and Joe also met up with GD while in Nairobi. GD is now actively pursuing a career in music. People may remember him from his work on "When Love Becomes our Philosophy", which Fran wrote for him last year. GD has been rooming with Casey in Nairobi. Casey consistently gets out 800 books a week on the crowded city buses, as well as running a hospital visitation program there.
SHOOTING CLOSE CALL
Another highlight of the trip to Nairobi was when shooting broke out near where Fran, Rob, and Joe were standing in a crowded area of town. Police were shooting "over the heads" of Muslim protesters, in an effort to disperse the crowd, but still, somehow, two people died as a result of police bullets.
KENYA LEADERSHIP HANDOVER
Fran and Kim handed over leadership of the Kenya team to Joe and Alf near the start of the month. This is in preparation for the couple's departure, after four years of service in Kenya. They will be greatly missed when they leave, both by the local team, and by the local people.
INTERNATIONAL VOLUNTEERS:
School is back in session, and volunteers this month have included a woman from Sovakia, a couple from Australia, and some freegans from Finland. Excellent progress is being made by the school in their reading, no doubt largely due to the flashcard program. Several of the volunteers have expressed surprise at how quickly the pupils are learning.
A Canadian walking through the village was told about our centre, and so he popped in and stayed for a week, providing some enthusiastic and cheerful support while there.
NEW SONG:
Joe and Fran produced a new rap song called "Don't Take The Mark!", which can be accessed via our music page through our website, or by going directly to:
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
OLD FRIENDS
Paul and Ulrike have reconnected with some long-term friends in the Los Angeles area, including an elderly Quaker couple and a friend who has been video documenting the JCs for many years.
DENTAL NEEDS
The long-term effects of all the sweets that we have rescued from bins over the years have resulted in quite a few cavities for our U.S. team. So they have kept been fortunate to discover a very cheap dental service with friendly staff who have been kept busy restoring their teeth back to better days.
NEW ARTICLES:
"You're Never Gonna Believe This!" Read it and see if it's true:
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
FORUM THREADS:
"Just a Little More... the Road to Backsliding" started by Ross.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Comparisons between Baal-worship and Catholicism, started by Joy.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Solar Power Considerations, started by Reinhard.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Baseball star forsake a pro career for God, started by Joe.
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Visiting the Needy, started by Eto'o
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Apophis Meteor Coming our Way, started by Adstaragain
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Not Much Privacy on Facebook, started by Dave
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Who Wants the Truth? started by Ali
[www.jesus-teachings.com]
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: February 01, 2010 10:23PM
Dear Zeusor,
Thank you for the details of the latest newsletter.
"Verity Evangaline" recently commented that she senses that many of the other members of the JesusChristians are secretly, privately quite embarrassed by the inane postings David increasingly makes now....and hence try to "lead" the conversation off in different directions (as they are too cowardly to challenge him outright!) as much as they might dare....do you get that feeling too?
Thank you for the details of the latest newsletter.
"Verity Evangaline" recently commented that she senses that many of the other members of the JesusChristians are secretly, privately quite embarrassed by the inane postings David increasingly makes now....and hence try to "lead" the conversation off in different directions (as they are too cowardly to challenge him outright!) as much as they might dare....do you get that feeling too?
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: February 02, 2010 06:23AM
Quote
Malcolm Wesley WREST
Dear Zeusor,
Thank you for the details of the latest newsletter.
"Verity Evangaline" recently commented that she senses that many of the other members of the JesusChristians are secretly, privately quite embarrassed by the inane postings David increasingly makes now....and hence try to "lead" the conversation off in different directions (as they are too cowardly to challenge him outright!) as much as they might dare....do you get that feeling too?
You're welcome, Mal.
Really, I really do not have an opinion to offer with respect to this matter, as I NEVER read welikejesus anymore and only know about who is saying what by reading this and the "free discussion" forum/support group.
To get everybody up-to-date: I am a full-time student of social psychology and am attending a fine university. Last semester I earned all As. I have a full and satisfying social life and a nice lady friend; therefore, I really have better things to do than worry about what some crazy old fart like David McKay has been doing for attention lately.
As a student of such things I feel comfortable writing that everything about DM's behaviors conforms precisely to the diagnostic criteria described by the DSM-IV-R, as consistent with 666.00: Evil Person Disorder (NOS).
Attention from others, whether is is for positive or negative reasons, is the crack cocaine of people like David McKay. The most important thing to him is to feel important, and powerful. Look up "narcissist" in the dictionary and you'll see DM's picture. Simply ignore him, and you'll have cut of his supply of crack, rendering him powerless and impotent. Make him feel unimportant and you may as well have disintegrated him. He's no real threat to anybody anymore; he's had his legs cut out from under him in these last few years and now what we have is this warped, frustrated, cowardly old man with a Mac who is sinking deeper and deeper into his dementia. He is a mere fossil.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: February 02, 2010 04:34PM
Dear Zeusor,
I congratulate you on your excellent results. Well done! If you ever have the time, I'd love to discuss the actual contents of your course in more detail with you....a fascinating subject.
You may well be right about David....
....this forum possibly only serving as a "death watch" for him now.....
....however while I think of if, despite the frightening "uncertainities" of suddenly being absolutely isolated, this little video does, I think, capture the joyous abandon of the moment you finally become independant once again, of strait-laced McKay, grumpily informing you at every opportunity of how "inadeqate" everyone is, and how "undeserving" we are of him...the sweet, cool breath of fresh air I physically drew, when I at last walked out, free of the stultifying "lifestyle" that had been suffocating me, accomodating David's every expectation.....
While I have remained somewhat more orthodox in my sexual orientation, this musical interlude DOES really capture what it's like to slowly realize that despite Davids' icy disapproval, you are somehow "different" and will never be able to "conform" to the oppression of a life lived under McKay....as "rich" you may once have thought it to have been....
...believe me, this is what the celebration of walking out on the man and his mean and nasty little world, feels like!
[www.youtube.com]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2010 04:49PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.
I congratulate you on your excellent results. Well done! If you ever have the time, I'd love to discuss the actual contents of your course in more detail with you....a fascinating subject.
You may well be right about David....
....this forum possibly only serving as a "death watch" for him now.....
....however while I think of if, despite the frightening "uncertainities" of suddenly being absolutely isolated, this little video does, I think, capture the joyous abandon of the moment you finally become independant once again, of strait-laced McKay, grumpily informing you at every opportunity of how "inadeqate" everyone is, and how "undeserving" we are of him...the sweet, cool breath of fresh air I physically drew, when I at last walked out, free of the stultifying "lifestyle" that had been suffocating me, accomodating David's every expectation.....
While I have remained somewhat more orthodox in my sexual orientation, this musical interlude DOES really capture what it's like to slowly realize that despite Davids' icy disapproval, you are somehow "different" and will never be able to "conform" to the oppression of a life lived under McKay....as "rich" you may once have thought it to have been....
...believe me, this is what the celebration of walking out on the man and his mean and nasty little world, feels like!
[www.youtube.com]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2010 04:49PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: February 03, 2010 08:50AM
I congratulate you on your excellent results. Well done! If you ever have the time, I'd love to discuss the actual contents of your course in more detail with you....a fascinating subject.
Thank you, thank you. Last semester I took a course in Personality Theory, as well as a course called Research Methods in Social Psychology. Also I took a sociology course called Race, Class, and Gender, and a lit seminar. This semester I'm in (no kidding) Abnormal Psychology, and as well I'm in the formal Social Psych course. Social Psych frankly is a big review for me, as so far everything we are doing pertains to Asch-Milgram-Zimbardo and the implications of these experiments towards an understanding of social psych; the person/situation debate and all that. It's all Cults 101 stuff. I'm taking these courses under some of the foremost experts in the field of social psych in our country; they are full professors, published expert witnesses, and not grad students.
And for the record: I have not "turned against" the other forum. My only recommendation to them was to change the header to not read "free discussion" anymore. Because it's not a free discussion. Don't call it what it's not. To call what is happening there a "free discussion" is a misnomer. The threads are very deliberately orchestrated to flow in certain directions, and so in a sense what is going on there is not a real "discussion" at all. That's all I mean.
That forum is more of a closed, members-only support group, a private hospital of sorts; this one is more like a barroom. You can be sure that if you write anything unpleasant or downright nasty over there, you'll be censured quickly, pressure will be put on you revise your post if somebody finds it objectionable, and you may even have your posts removed altogether (censored) by the admin. That happened to me lots of times.
One time the admin even put a filter of some kind in the forum so that the word "troll" could not appear in any of the text. That's right, at one point the word "troll" was banned from XJCs. A banned word. What's the difference between that and what happens at welikejesus? What's the difference between that behavior and the behavior of any other closed group/cult? My answer: there's no difference at all!
Here you can pretty much write what you want and RR is not going to delete your posts if he thinks what you have to say, or the manner in which you choose to express yourself, is unpleasant. What we have here is more of a truly "free discussion" than what they're doing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2010 09:09AM by zeuszor.
Thank you, thank you. Last semester I took a course in Personality Theory, as well as a course called Research Methods in Social Psychology. Also I took a sociology course called Race, Class, and Gender, and a lit seminar. This semester I'm in (no kidding) Abnormal Psychology, and as well I'm in the formal Social Psych course. Social Psych frankly is a big review for me, as so far everything we are doing pertains to Asch-Milgram-Zimbardo and the implications of these experiments towards an understanding of social psych; the person/situation debate and all that. It's all Cults 101 stuff. I'm taking these courses under some of the foremost experts in the field of social psych in our country; they are full professors, published expert witnesses, and not grad students.
And for the record: I have not "turned against" the other forum. My only recommendation to them was to change the header to not read "free discussion" anymore. Because it's not a free discussion. Don't call it what it's not. To call what is happening there a "free discussion" is a misnomer. The threads are very deliberately orchestrated to flow in certain directions, and so in a sense what is going on there is not a real "discussion" at all. That's all I mean.
That forum is more of a closed, members-only support group, a private hospital of sorts; this one is more like a barroom. You can be sure that if you write anything unpleasant or downright nasty over there, you'll be censured quickly, pressure will be put on you revise your post if somebody finds it objectionable, and you may even have your posts removed altogether (censored) by the admin. That happened to me lots of times.
One time the admin even put a filter of some kind in the forum so that the word "troll" could not appear in any of the text. That's right, at one point the word "troll" was banned from XJCs. A banned word. What's the difference between that and what happens at welikejesus? What's the difference between that behavior and the behavior of any other closed group/cult? My answer: there's no difference at all!
Here you can pretty much write what you want and RR is not going to delete your posts if he thinks what you have to say, or the manner in which you choose to express yourself, is unpleasant. What we have here is more of a truly "free discussion" than what they're doing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2010 09:09AM by zeuszor.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: February 04, 2010 08:15AM
Somebody over there wrote this recently, and I hope that that person is reading this now.
Thanks to Davejc, the group will never number above 20 and I will put my money on THAT!
My contention is that David does not, nor did he ever, want the group to ever get very big; the JCs are a very small group by his design. Larger groups are harder to control, and DM is all about control. He knows what he is doing, is not a stupid man, and is quite cagey.
DM derives pleasure from manipulating people, period. If he figures he can take someone down the garden path by exploiting some ambiguity of language, then he will. But if that doesn't work, he has no problem with out and out deceit. It doesn't matter to him, the only point is to get a reaction. His behavior is similar to that of serial murders, who, once in custody, pretend to wish to divulge information about unsolved crimes, but really don't want anything but attention. He loves to make folks dance. He isn't concerned with his own credibility, just with exerting control over other people, whether it's by enraging them, or deceiving them, or as he must do in his work exploiting people's misery, feigning empathy. The only goal for him is to get a response that he feels he controlled. It's all about control and nothing about dialogue with DM.
Thanks to Davejc, the group will never number above 20 and I will put my money on THAT!
My contention is that David does not, nor did he ever, want the group to ever get very big; the JCs are a very small group by his design. Larger groups are harder to control, and DM is all about control. He knows what he is doing, is not a stupid man, and is quite cagey.
DM derives pleasure from manipulating people, period. If he figures he can take someone down the garden path by exploiting some ambiguity of language, then he will. But if that doesn't work, he has no problem with out and out deceit. It doesn't matter to him, the only point is to get a reaction. His behavior is similar to that of serial murders, who, once in custody, pretend to wish to divulge information about unsolved crimes, but really don't want anything but attention. He loves to make folks dance. He isn't concerned with his own credibility, just with exerting control over other people, whether it's by enraging them, or deceiving them, or as he must do in his work exploiting people's misery, feigning empathy. The only goal for him is to get a response that he feels he controlled. It's all about control and nothing about dialogue with DM.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: February 05, 2010 12:01AM
Yes...Zeusor, unfortunately I would think you largely right....
.....and I suspect that the observation made elsewhere is accurate, too...
David appears to have really lost sight of what an self-absorbed, acerbic donkey he has made himself become though,
as he seems to have lost any awareness of how transparently his vituperative cynicism of any view of the world,
other than his own, in relation to the slightest thing....tells everyone external to his empire,
all that they'd ever need to know about him....
[www.youtube.com]
.....and I suspect that the observation made elsewhere is accurate, too...
David appears to have really lost sight of what an self-absorbed, acerbic donkey he has made himself become though,
as he seems to have lost any awareness of how transparently his vituperative cynicism of any view of the world,
other than his own, in relation to the slightest thing....tells everyone external to his empire,
all that they'd ever need to know about him....
[www.youtube.com]
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