Dear Zeuszor,

No, that certainly IS worth "recycling"....quite a clever observation on your part....that the "Billy Graham" in Davids' writings is simply a projection of Davids' own ego about himself....Daivd of course, vainly imagining himself to be a good "Billy Graham" to whom we should all be grateful.....I remember Davids mother mentioning something similar about him that she observed in his teenage years....and I can recall glimpses of the same sort of barely disguised messianic "self-belief" in Tallangatta (housed in a far more amenable individual in those days, hence you shrugged them off as mere personal foibles)...

....funny, how few people really live to be very different from the qualities they show in their childhood and teenage years!

The God of the Jesus Christians punishes and fails to forgive. DM constantly criticizes the faults, weak points and lacks of denominational churches. DM has a knack for identifying the inconsistencies and hypocrisies within the churches, but he also belittles them. DM puts words to what many people, especially young people, feel. There is still this 60’s and early 70’s-style rebellious streak that is still in him; he doesn’t want to cooperate with The System. He continually berates many Christians, even though a considerable number of them have over the years aided him in his work of forming and maintaining the JCs.

If a cult leader maintains control of a follower’s mind, then they can manipulate them. They don’t need to go after their money directly or steal from them. If the cult leader exerts and continues control over the followers mind, then he has access to everything that belongs to the follower.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. This is my opinion of DM. Every former member that I have read of expresses the same thought about DM and his lust for power and control. The early JCs began with some honorable intentions, but as DM garnered more and more power he became blinded. He is leading all the JCs into a ditch.

In making these statements I am not interested in seeking revenge nor am I trying to be cruel. I am trying to inform people so they can make a choice based on facts. We all know that the JCs will never change as long as DM is the sole uncontested leader. DM may write new teachings or they may live in new places or they may wear their hair different or wear different clothes but the basic theme will always be obedience to DM and his teachings. DM exercises sole unchallenged control over the JCs with no one to keep him in check. DM promotes the idea of checks and balances in his teachings, and that no one person should ever exert sole leadership of a religious movement or community, but his own lifestyle runs contrary to his teachings.

The JCs maintains its own criteria for judging fruit which states “Judge a tree by its fruit. If the fruit is rotten the tree is rotten.” They proclaim that the JCs are for everyone and that those who fail to respond will suffer physical and spiritual death. Community members believe that Jesus only grants protection to them. Young adults leave their parents to join with the JCs. The man and wife relationship is repeatedly tempered with, as well. Because people can’t implicitly obey David McKay some have attempted suicide. Some ex-members have reportedly committed suicide. Although the JCs outwardly promote personal relationships with non-members, these friendships are not allowed to develop or flourish. Many remain in the JCs 5 or 10 years, or for however long, and then get kicked out or they may decide to leave which reduces them to zero financially, spiritually and emotionally. What kind of shape are these folks reduced to after contact with the JCs? This is the visible fruit of the Jesus Christians.

The Jesus Christians should use their own criteria to judge themselves. If they did they would disband and everyone would leave today.

Sssh! Don't tell anyone! 19/09/2009 19:58
Keep it quiet, but it's getting up toward two weeks since Brian et al have said anything on the Rick site. For all I know things have been equally quiet on the Nick site. Maybe they've taken me seriously, about the best way to hurt us is to just drop their vendetta against us altogether.

Very interesting. (Oh, and I still do think that it is the wisest thing for them to do, i.e. to continue the silence.)

David McKay[www.jesus-teachings.com]


If David actually meant what he whined about he would of course NOT comment at all.....this is such a pitifully desperate attempt to yet again draw attention to himself ("provoking" a response by "goading" his critics to "retaliate" to his taunts)...what an infantile mind!

I note that even his own "adoring followers" who are betoken to him quickly tire of this childishness however and that the end of the thread has no bearing on David original topic.


Re:Sssh! Don't tell anyone! 08/10/2009 07:48
Rob wrote:
"You people had better make up your minds. Do you want to condemn us for being poor? or being rich?"

Excellent point, Rob! In the same breath that they want to condemn us for eating food rescued from rubbage bins and driving vehicles powered by waste vegetable oil, they also seek to condemn us as being filthy rich and overloaded with money! These people can't make up their minds, they're so loaded with hatred that they'll just latch on to any close and available excuse to damn what we stand for!

Joe


I condemn you Joe for being patently dishonest! I damn you for standing for the practice of "Malicious Misreprestantion" "Commericial Fraud", "Libel" and "Extortion".

You work in a business(Worship David Inc) that sells itself as a religion.

You provide no insurance, remuneration, guarantees of employment or adequate conditions for those WORKING for David Mckay in violation of the provisions of all relevant Labour Law regimes across the Common Law countries (England, US and Aust, etc). The fact that you claim to voluntarily submit to these privations, (in the service of your "God"...i.e McKay) is irrelevant to the operation of criminal and administrative law.

There are no audits of your accounts in order to avoid taxation and duty and to forestall any commercial responsibility to the "mutual partners" in your business.

You illegally refuse to reimburse departing "partners" of your business with their share of the (substantial) goods and chattels that you possess, and over which they have a rightful claim.

David makes vast amounts of money (then spent advertising "himself".....the fact that he may not own a yacht or Swiss bank account does nothing to absolve him...I'm not simply saying that he is a "criminal", I'm asserting that he is "criminally insane"...)

You do not "share all things common" as the scriptures command(Acts 2:44-5)....there are no "joint accounts"....anything significant is in David's name of those of his "appointed leaders".

I condemn you for duplicitously attempting to appear to follow scripture when you in fact blatantly contravene it.

Yeah, I heard from someone before that fanatics are the only sincere people in the world, or something to that effect. Again, I'm not sure that I would assert that opinion statment as FACT, but, like Dave, I would say that there does seem to be a fair bit of truth to it.

Certainly one of the things that most attracted me to the Jesus Christians initially was the fact that they were so "fanatical" about obedience to the teachings of Jesus. And we are also very big on sincerity as a community. So I can see one immediate example connection already.

Joe [www.jesus-teachings.com]


David McKay does NOT obey the teachings of Christ....

...he generates money (spent on self advertising) through the poverty of those trapped in the treadmill of his self-worship.

Are you so stupid Joe, that you can't see the reverse psychology being employed here

(...our critics "love money" but we know don't because David tells us we don't,

once we hand over everything we own and everything we earn to him or his appointed leaders)

There are no "signatures" or "contract" for you Joe only the deceptive assurances of a smiling charlatan,

in sweet disguise, taking you for a ride, and otherwise giving you the "finger"....[www.youtube.com]



So what exactly do you think of Grace's work in the Catholic workers these days, Joe?

(an organization that doesn't question the need for "workers" and that seeks to champion their rights in the "system")

Behind Graces' back, you snidely consider yourself a cut above her now Joe? ...

....from the young man who spends every working day of his life SELLING JC literature to raise money to line McKays' pockets.....

....what a (fanatically insincere) hypocrite!!!

Jesus Christians Newsletter #117, November 2009

THE UNITED STATES

Tensions in the U.S. continue to dominate the news, although there are hopes that things will mellow a bit with Joe out of the country.
At Reinhard and Jeremy's restraining order hearing against Jared, Sheila turned up (hardly a surprise) but she had a team from Fox News in tow as well. The same team had done the controversial report on the mock trial in Long Beach back in 2006. You can see the original transcript of that and some comments from us here:

[cust.idl.net.au]

When they found that Joe was not there, Fox News disappeared. But they surfaced again later with a request for Dave to "respond" to claims that "younger members" think he is "God". Dave is seeking counsel from anyone posting on our forum about what to say to Fox in response to such a ridiculous claim. You can read that thread here:

[www.jesus-teachings.com]

At the hearing, the judge seemed to be under Sheila's spell too, as he refused to even look at the video of the vicious attack by Jared and John against Reinhard, saying that he had read what Sheila gave him prior to coming to court, and his mind was already made up that we are a dangerous cult, and that there was no need for Reinhard to be protected from Jared.

You can see what the judge refused to look at here:

[www.youtube.com]

The corruption that comes into play as soon as the "cult" card is played is astonishing, especially when you see how it can even bias trained judges, who are supposed to be experts at overlooking sensationalism in order to rationally examine the evidence. The judge gave Sheila detailed information on how she could have Joe declared insane and get him committed to a mental institution as one way to force him away from the rest of the community! This adds a whole new
dimension to the risks involved in Joe having any contact with Sheila.

Nevertheless, Joe made one final attempt to meet with his parents over dinner at a restaurant before flying out of the country, only to be rejected once again by Sheila and Jared. Sheila said she regarded the predominantly White suburb where Joe asked to meet as "hostile" and said she would only meet him at a police station, court house, or a restaurant in close proximity to the sheriff's office. All indications were that she intended to get the sheriff to use such a meeting to issue
papers to have Joe committed. Each time we think that Sheila has sunk as low as she can get, she goes one notch lower!

There was a short visit from Dave and Cherry, who squeezed in an evening with Grace and Eric, some time with Jesse's parents, and a visit to the Long Beach Quakers in their two-day stopover on the way to the U.K.

The L.A. team attended another freegan movie potluck hosted by Grace and Eric, featuring the film "Homelessness Is Not A Crime". The producer, Ernest Savage, was there and provided some stimulating conversation before he presented the film. The homeless in L.A. consistently have their belongings confiscated and destroyed as part of the county police efforts to "keep the streets clean". Our guys were able to empathize with Ernest's frustration about the lack of concern for the poor here in the US, while they were also able to share with him a broader perspective of poverty from a global perspective, making mention of their eye-opening experiences in Kenya earlier this year, which gave them a new understanding of what it means to be really poor.

Bin-raiding yielded several shopping cart loads of yogurt, meat, salads, and more from some of the usual haunts, and some new ones around the LA area.

While visiting a friend in Orange County, our team was surprised to hear that she actually sat next to Tim LaHaye, co-author of the famed "Left Behind" series (which helped to inspire "Survivors", because it made Dave so angry to read what "Left Behind" was saying) at a recent church event. At that meeting (according to our friend) LaHaye took offense that she did not give him the kind of "praise" that he felt he deserved. It's a shame that such perceived "prophets" are really just
con-men, only interested in prostituting the gospel for selfish reasons. This woman said she was sick of seeing so many souls being led astray by the diabolical prosperity gospel, which is so much a part of the entire "Left Behind" series.


AUSTRALIA

Ross and Baz had the privilege of hearing a song about themselves, composed and sung by one of their long-term contacts, whom they visited this month. They visited several towns west of Sydney, over the Blue Mountains: Katoomba, Lithgow, Bathurst, Cowra, and Orange. They shared in a birthday party in Katoomba, and helped with building a dam and fencing for an afternoon on the property of a music teacher in Cowra who is hoping to develop his land as a health retreat. The friendly atmosphere in the country towns was refreshing, as were the 50 chocolate bars, 100 packets of dried apricots, and 10kg of rice that they found in some of their better bin raiding hauls for the month.

IRELAND

Paul and Ulrike are still enjoying their stint in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. They continue to find new suburbs and universities in Dublin, and have taken to distributing with an umbrella in one hand because of the rain, something they learned from Ross many years ago when he visited rainy Scotland.


UNITED KINGDOM

Alan and Alf found a mountain of food while being filmed when making a student freegan documentary. A store manager came out and exclaimed on camera that they were stealing food, even when it was pointed out that it was being thrown away. It made for some great footage and probably embarrassed the manager more than it did Alan and Alf!

They also attended the screening of a documentary made by an old friend of Alf's. Called 'The Volunteer', it featured the friend's efforts to re-vamp a medical centre in Nairobi's Kibera slum on a shoe-string budget, showing that even independent individuals can make a significant difference in the world.

Rols, Sue and Dann enjoyed a half-term break from school by surfing in Cornwall.

Dave and Cherry got the royal treatment in London, with a very nice hotel for the night (at just 30 pounds, believe it or not) and everything from flowers and chocolates to drinks and hot meals, all derived from bin-raiding. And the fellowship? That was priceless too!


KENYA

There were still enough chocolates when Dave and Cherry arrived back in Kenya to provide some indulgences for our Kenya sweet tooths. As usual, there are plenty of jobs to keep everyone busy, including a new paint job for the compound.

An influx of volunteers from Germany (two sisters), the UK, Netherlands, and South Africa is turning into a big help with the reading program, which has been dramatically altered for an experimental period of five weeks. The emphasis is on training teachers as much as students. Dave brought huge A2-sized colour laminated pages from the Easy Readers, which are big enough to teach the entire class with. They are proving very popular. Bob is in charge of the Easy English program.

Evenings are often taken up with games, including everyone's (new) favorite, "Werewolf" which is similar to the old "Mafia" game. One of the volunteers from the UK (another David) organised a trivia quiz night, and our Dave has invented a new version of sudoku which uses letters instead of numbers.

Volunteers have been keen about repairing badly battered reading books, which they then take to town and sell for 20ksh (40 cents) per set of five books. In one afternoon they sold more than 200 sets.

Karl had an operation to remove a non-cancerous growth on his jaw. He was in hospital for a week, as the surgery proved to be more complicated than expected. He is back home now and doing fine. Simon stayed with Karl during his hospital stay, and used free time to continue with artwork for six new Easy Readers that are in the pipeline.

Unfortunately we have had another outbreak of typhoid, but thankfully not as intense as the previous round. We have not been able to identify the source this time, but to be safe, everyone has taken antibiotics to eliminate it. One of our volunteers also developed malaria during his second week here. After a few days of medication he was fit enough to make a 12km jog to town with no ill effects!

Our shipment of Easy English books arrived this month, including The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, and The Invisible Man. Fran and a couple of our volunteers helped unload the shipment and organise it in a warehouse.

Simon and Fran had a fantastic day distributing in Eldoret this month, when they got out almost six hundred books in just under three hours! That must be some
kind of community record!

A school in Australia sponsored the construction of a block of toilets, and a water pump for a local school, so Dave and Fran attended a ceremony on behalf of the Australian school, to present a plaque to be embedded in the cement work. Dave and Kim visited the same school another day to present gifts of pens, pencils and other prizes to the whole school. These too were gifts from the Australian school. After each visit we were loaded down with sugar cane, fruit and vegetables, and
treated to dance performances from some of the students.

Kim was appointed official administrative leader of the team here towards the end of the month. Please pray for her to keep inspired, and on the ball!

From the latest JC newsletter, in reference to Tim LaHaye...

"It's a shame that such perceived "prophets" are really just con-men, only interested in prostituting the gospel for selfish reasons."

Incredible. This, coming from the self-appointed "Divine Authority." What blindness! What arrogance! What painful irony! What hypocrisy!

Matthew 7:15-20

15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Like I've always said, what is the fruit of David's ministry? Answer: he has none; all he has to show for himself is a lot of thorns.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2009 04:52AM by zeuszor.

Dear Zeusor,

Aboslutely! It is the height of hypocrisy for David a con-man who himself prostitutes the gospel for selfish reasons, to make such a superficial observation about someone else altogether. I am reminded of a passage in one of Steven Hassans' works where he points out that cults blindly hate each other (Satan has a divided Kingdom that will ultimately fall...)while largely perpetrating the very same deceptions....

Its astounding (to those who haven't lived under his thumb) to try to imagine how someone could be so stupid to think that he take everyone for a ride by making whatever grossly untrue claims about himself and the world external to him, that he vainly dreams up in an order to steal the "limelight" and yet somehow imagine that the consequences of this dishonesty won't eventually catch up with him.... [www.youtube.com]

FYI: a follow-up report to the original November '06 trial/whipping piece is to be broadcast tomorrow night at ten PM on Fox 11 (Los Angeles). It will only be broadcast locally to the LA area, but likely will be online as well. Will provide a link when I can.

Thank you Zesuor! I will anticipate looking through it....

David's perspective is of course that any "publicity" is "good publicity" (he would attempt to twist any criticism of him into "evidence" of the "persecution" he falsely claims that he suffers....and anything "positive" he would alternatively hypocritically describe as "accurate"....the logic of the criminally insane!)

[www.myfoxla.com]

God has at this time and in this corner of the world, anointed me as his apostle. As long as I am doing my job right, he is not going to anoint someone else to rebel against me. If I get away from God, then I will lose my anointing and God will give authority to someone else to take my place. But beware! Just because you get a chance to start a rebellion, doesn't mean that you have authority nor that I have lost mine; and if I catch you rebelling, I will wield the rod of correction in obedience to God, since it is really God that you are rebelling against when you do that.

David McKay, 1998

[www.jesuschristians.net]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2009 09:12PM by zeuszor.