Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: August 04, 2008 03:20AM

Mark, I usually wouldn't be so coarse here but here it is. F**k you, eat a bag of s**t and try and go make some friends. The Duncans are much better friends to me than you will ever be. You suck.

I've been watching this thread for over a year now, and it is, for the most part, the total obsession of one individual who literally goes from one cult to another, as has been verified to me by those who know him from one of the cults he (and they) used to be in. (My sources shall remain nameless, although, if the moderator wants proof, I will verify it to him and him alone.

You are just as bad as one of those stuffed-shirt, egghead apologetics types that you have so little respect for, Mark.

Yes, I have been around a lot of cults, some of which I have written of here, and some of which I have not. Here's a list:

Since November of '05 (when I got out of the Army), I have visited and/or lived among (look them up):

1) JPUSA (2 mos.) Feb/March '06
2) Trinity Foundation (5 mos.) March '06-August '-06
3) Westboro Baptist Church (visited in September '06) THE SCARIEST OF THE BUNCH BY FAR
4) IHOP/Kansas City (also visited in September '06)
5) Twelve Tribes (10 days in March '08)
6) ISKCON (the longest association and ongoing; I have known the devotees and chanted for 15 years)
7) ...and I have spent a helluva lot of time on the JCs.

That's it. I am not a "serial cultist." What is that, six? Seven if you count the Army? I was never a Moonie and have never even met a Moonie. Though I have met an ex-Moonie once. And BTW: it's called Trinity Foundation Incorporated, not Trinity Foundation International, so it shows what you know, the level of your expertise.

It seems like you are one of these angry, fanatical-type "Christians," the type of which I cannot stand. Your hanging up on and yelling at me when I called you from San Diego was extremely rude and hardly representative of somebody who calls himself a lover of God. You yelled, "Quit calling me or I'll go on Rick Ross and tell everybody where you are and who you're with!" at me.

Mark, it sounds like you are really going through a tough time with you mother and father and stepfather. Sure, the Duncans and I talk about you sometimes. Also, you must be feeling very alone and vulnerable because you don't have any significant relationships.

That's why you don't own a computer, right? You have to do all of this from the local library. You told me that this because of your pornography addiction and lack of self-control. So don't try to play Mr. Holier-Than-Thou with me.

I smoke grass, all of my friends know this, and every couple of years like to eat teonacatl or some other entheogen and thereby expand my perspective. Nobody's perfect and I never said that it is for everybody.

Mark, I have tried to help here because DM is a terrible human being and it's a matter of my conscience.

Yes, it's true, between early January and late march of this year I was living in a Hare Krsna asram in San Diego. Here is a picture of me dressed in sadhu clothes to prove it. I admit to being a Hare Krsna "fringie" devotee. I live about a block away from Kalachandji's, here in Dallas. I have never particularly hidden that from anybody. Satisfied, jerk?


If this (your little outburst here) is a display of Christian "love," Mark, then I'll never set foot in a church again, I guarantee you.

You are rude, self-righteous and arrogant, Mark, and exactly the kind of person that gives "Christians" and "Christianity" a bad name.

Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2008 03:45AM by zeuszor.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: August 04, 2008 03:41AM



Last month volunteers from the United States and from around Kenya
gathered together to work on building restoration projects organized
by Quakers from the U.S. The 20 volunteers split into two groups,
one working to restore staff quarters at Kaimosi Hospital and the
other working on restoring the Peace Centre at Lubao. Casey was put
in charge of organizing the work at Kaimosi and was assisted off and
on by Fran and Karl, as well as two volunteers from our volunteer
centre. The project lasted for four weeks. The group at Kaimosi
worked on thirty different houses, painting rooms, fixing rooves,
doors and bathrooms according to the needs of each house and the time
and resources available. The staff at the hospital were very
appreciative fo their efforts. During the weekends all the
volunteers got together for outings to the forest, Kisumu (including
a boat ride around Lake Victoria and some very nice fresh fried fish)
and Webuye falls.

We had contact with two other work camp groups, organised by a
different organisation. Some stayed to help with our projects when
their work camp was over. They planted a nice vegetable garden at
the back of the property.

We hosted a party for all the work campers which was a nice way of
bringing them together for them to share their experiences.

As a result of interacting with the work campers we discovered that
the organisation they were working for was actually a scam. It was
supposed to be an orphanage, when there was no orphanage. And claims
they were making about helping orphans in their own homes were
enormously exaggerated, if not outright lies. We felt a
responsibility to say something to expose the corruption, even though
we knew the organisation had some very influential backers. Making
enemies is sometimes the cost of speaking the truth.

We've been dealing with a few emergencies lately. The local hospital
has an understanding that they can ask us to help transport patients
to the district hospital who are too difficult for them to handle.
Fran took a woman with a breach birth to hospital to have a caesarian.
She was screaming in labour on the way, which was a bit freaky for
him. We heard later that the operation went okay and both mother and
child were okay. That same evening Robin took a man who had been
attacked with a panga to hospital. Whoever did it had obviously
wanted to kill him, but the guy was very fortunate that the cuts were
superficial. He'll have a lot of scars but he should be fine.

Karl and Giddy have been doing a bit of work with the Friends Church
Peace Team. They helped distribute maize and other food items to
displaced people at three different locations. Giddy and Karl also
went to a "reconciliation celebration" at Sugoi, one of the areas
most affected by post-election violence (between Mount Elgon and
Eldoret). It's traditional when blood has been spilt between
communities, to slaughter cows and share the meal in order to be able
to live together in peace. So that was the event. There was still a
lot of tension in the air between Kikuyus and Nandis (a.k.a.
Kalenjins), but the event still went smoothly and it probably helped
a lot. The Friends Church Peace Team went to show their support,
though the event was organised by the local D.O..

Fran has been invited to preach at a couple of church and school
gatherings. One sermon was on revival (the theme of the gathering)
and the others have been on peace. The crowds enjoyed "Amani Kenya"
peace T-shirts. The high schools have a particular need for peace
teaching, as over 60 high schools in Kenya have had buildings burnt
down during the last couple months as a result of student rioting.
It seems the post-election violence has taught youth that violence is
a way to get what they want.

One day we came across a guy who the local people had tried to lynch
five minutes walk from where we live. It seemed the sub-chief had
managed to stop the lynching. The guy was lying on the ground but
otherwise didn't seem too badly injured. We took him to the hospital
along with the sub-chief, where we discovered the crowd had attempted
to burn him. They'd used kerosene and he had quite a few burns on
his leg, plus a burn on his shoulder. We were shocked to hear the
next day that the guy had died overnight from internal injuries. It
was pretty sad. The sub-chief was especially upset because he
believed the guy was innocent. The man lived in Nairobi and had come
to visit his family. Since he was not known (people thought he was
Kisii - from another tribe) they presumed he had something to do with
cattle thefts that have been going on. It was pretty dissapointing
to think it had happened in our area.

We considered doing an educational program to encourage people to
take suspects to the police, because they could mistakenly kill an
innocent man, as happened in this case. But we soon learned that the
family of the victim, who were very appreciative of our help, were
accusing the sub-chief of being behind the lynching. The situation
seemed a little too volatile for us to base an educational campaign
specifically on the case, but we may do something more general in

Now that the situation in the country appears to be stabilizing, we
are planning to start the reading program again, after the upcoming
school holidays. We have seven schools lined up for the program, all
of which have been eager for us to bring the reading system to their


It is now common knowledge that Dave underwent surgery for cancer
very early in the month. The surgery was successful, but there have
been some serious complications. Dave has taken the forced
retirement to be a sign that he should be more literally "retired"
from the community, largely as a way of giving others more chance to

The Australian team had a field day with hundreds of thousands of
young Catholic "pilgrims" in Sydney for World Youth Day. Thousands
of CDs with Jesus Christian music on them went out to the crowds.


The U.S. teams had a reunion in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where they
attended the U.S. Transplant Games. They participated in workshops
and discussions on living donors, and were interviewed by a couple of
journalists. One of our members came in fourth in the all-comers fun
run, but did not report his results, so that the information would
not be posted on the internet, as we are trying to make it harder for
our enemies to watch our every move.


The media frenzy over our involvement in freeganism continues, with
over a dozen media interviews during the month.


Two articles by Cherry ("Learning to Purr" and "Justice, The Cross
and the Return of Jesus") are on the "new articles" page. The link
for new articles is:


Debates continue to rage on the Jesus Christian forum, including
comments by Cherry on a shocking article in the latest issue of "The
Australian Friend";


Fierce controversy over Reinhard taking legal action against the
Johnsons for the serious assault that he suffered at their hands;


Bureaucratic frustrations for a friend trying to donate a kidney in
Australia (where Good Samaritan donations were legalised a few years
ago, but where only two such transplants appear to have taken place


And a great interview with Roland and Sue on the subject of


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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: August 04, 2008 04:15AM

Dear Zeusor,

Thank you for the newsletter....I find it amazing that the JesusChristians can describe the interview with Roland and Sue as "great" given the large number of following email responses that saw right through them.....(Foucaults observation that any lie can "create" its' own reality)....however I understand that from their perspective, publicity for themselves, in any shape or form, is the "goal" hence from the point of view of highjacking freeganism for the purposes of self-promotion, the article might be considered ..umm... "great" ....there could still be some individuals who will be ultimately taken in, and who they can then defraud to "forsake all" to the Jesuschristians (old men in their 60's...the gentleman in Ireland who Alf is obviously out to visit at the moment)....

Claiming that you "hate" money and work for love, while engaged in legal action to take as much money as they can from someone who dared to "cross" them.... promises of "eternal life" if only someone will just commit to them all their cash and resources... and so the scam goes on....

Hence, I guess thats a "great" interview for them in that light....

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: August 04, 2008 04:25AM

You are welcome. I am just so pissed off at Scheiderer right now that I could scream. That guy doesn't know me and the Duncans (from TFI) should not have told him anything about me or my business.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: blacksheep ()
Date: August 04, 2008 04:41AM


I can assure you that Mark probably represents a minority of those whom call themselves "christians". His attitude is typical of the fringe fundamentalist types I generally encounter, especially those of the KJV Only cult. Evangelicals, such as myself, are a little more open and try to judge actions not individuals. You, sir, have my utmost respect. You have done a great job of reporting the truth regarding these organizations. Bravo Zulu.


I agree with you, if deception is enlightenment, then the interview is great. I did find it rather suspicious that the JC's now feel a need to keep thier activities secret, including not posting something on the internet about how somebody placed in a sporting event. Why would they want to "make it harder for our enemies to watch our every move" unless they were doing something that is possibly illegal? Every religious organization I am aware of has its critics and detractors. Every religious organization is always being scrutinized by somebody. Such being the case, these organizations generally try to be as open as possible, so as to avoid scandal or criticism (though sometimes things do fail or backfire). Hence, why the secrecy? I can understand secrecy in a church that is in the process of calling a new pastor, as there can be a tendency for people to want to influence the call committee with regards to whom may be called. However, even the call committee eventually has to reveal whom it intends to call as the pastor. However, I don't see such a consideration here. What I see is a possible activity either being planned or in progress that could border on being illegal (I've checked and learned that most states make "dumpster diving" illegal for safety reasons, though I suspect there is something else).

Note: I know that I have stated I don't intend to post very often and this is true. I will post however when something in particular catches my attention. In time, that may change to not posting at all, save for the occassional private message. However, I will continue to monitor this cult and thier activities if just so I can be aware of such things should the need arise to help counsel somebody who has been involved in such an organization.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Mark Scheiderer ()
Date: August 04, 2008 04:43AM


When has Z. ever listened to anybody in "private"?

I believe his post above speaks for itself ( as does the photo.)

Anton Hein's credibility as a cult expert is shot because of him being a convicted child molestor ( as RR documents on this site.)

Ole Anthony/TFI's credibility as a cult expert(s) is shot because he is a cult leader and TFI is a cult.

As far as me siding with the JC/McKay supporters, I couldn't disagree more. In fact, all I'm doing is pointing out the existence of yet another person of dubious character/behaviour within the ranks of the counter-cult community, who is no better than the cult leaders he attempts to expose. Perhaps that's the reason Ole/TFI never replied here on the thread about TFI.

I see you and Wendy as very credible, BUT, any association with Z will prove to be a liability if he maintains his current "serial cultist" behaviour.


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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Mark Scheiderer ()
Date: August 04, 2008 04:48AM


One other thing: I just read Z's post at the top of this page. Since the post was re-edited 6 times, I see no need to comment on any of it. Re-editing is a trait of Z's which renders any dialogue futile.

Methinks the pot and mushrooms are taking their toll on him.


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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: counselor47 ()
Date: August 04, 2008 05:12AM


You owe Zeuszor an apology. This whole thing began with an unprovoked attack by you upon him.

Also, even if you disagree with something Zeuszor is doing I consider it to be HIGHLY inappropriate that you have dragged Wendy and me into this. I have apologized to Zeuszor for ever mentioning him to you. If I talk to you anymore I will have to be extremely circumspect about what I say, since it now appears that you cannot be trusted.

Also, I agree with Zeuszor that it is not fair to call him a serial cultist. As he is aware, I have had my concerns about his involvement with ISKCON, but I do not think it is correct to say he is a serial cultist.

Do me a favor, Mark. Before you pop off with another self-justifying response on this board, why don't you take a little time to think and pray about this. If you are honest with yourself I think you will see that you do not have anything here to take a stand about. You are very much in the wrong here.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: counselor47 ()
Date: August 04, 2008 05:31AM

Mark Scheiderer
As far as me siding with the JC/McKay supporters, I couldn't disagree more. In fact, all I'm doing is pointing out the existence of yet another person of dubious character/behaviour within the ranks of the counter-cult community, who is no better than the cult leaders he attempts to expose.

And, one more thing: It is over the top to say that someone you happen to have a disagreement with is no better than the cult leaders. Most of these cult leaders are sociopaths. I know Zeuszor quite well, and I can say that he is not a sociopath--far from it. He is a nice guy who loves and wants to follow Jesus. He is not perfect, but neither am I. Neither are you, Mark.

I would like to call for a cease fire about this, especially on this forum. We can figure out some other place to resolve these differences, and leave this thread to be what it is supposed to be, which is a discussion about the Jesus Christians.

Wendy and I consider both Mark and Brian to be friends, and we would like to see this worked out in a way that does not bring further dishonor to the Body of Christ.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: August 04, 2008 05:41AM

Mark, you have hurt me very deeply by writing such things.

Thank you, Doug, and a "thank you" to the rest of you who know me and have had my back.

If you carefully watch the footage of myself in the "Cult Leader Humiliates Himself" segment, you'll see that I am wearing kunti-mala around my neck, and on my right wrist is a copper bracelet with an inscription written on it. In fact, I was wearing the same mala on the show as in the above photo of myself. I am wearing that mala and bracelet right now as I type this. Of course you could not read the bracelet from seeing the segment, but if you could, you'd have seen that it reads "Om Namah Shivaya" in Sanskrit.

It reminds me of something about "The Good Hindu." I know several of them, myself.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2008 06:10AM by zeuszor.

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