cultmalleus,

Nice to see you back. Trust life is treating you well.

Yes, very well indeed, so many good things in my life. Depressing to think what I would have missed out on if I was still a member. We have only one life, t'will soon be past, only what's done for love will last. Glad to be recovered from the delusions of the JC's.

Dear Cultmalleus,

BRILLIANT,....just brilliant! Absolutely loved the "Gospel" according to David....!!

Dear Mark,

If I lie and you believe me, well I'm only being "Honest" to "God" (according to the definitions of the Jesus Christians) aren't I, hence the Jesuschristians deliberately overstate membership in order to avoid having to explain the natural "attrition" (Vicki and her family or Hosea....Why would anyone want to leave the loving embrace of such "beautiful people" one might otherwise ask!)

I'd definitely put their membership far lower than 30 possibly in the vicinity of 20 with 5-6 people situated on average at any one time at their permanent locations of Guildford UK, inner Sydney and Kanna-whachama-call-it Gardens in Nairobi....as well as the road team in the US.

As David has been nowhere near as "successful" as other cults, to date he has remained "under the radar" of more serious investigation by the Authorities (a situation I would like to see change)...however I certainly agree with Private Eyes, that they remain "dangerous"....

Malcolm -

The reason I asked about the number of people in this cult is that I think it is absolutely ridiculous that 337 pages - that's THREE HUNDRED THIRTY SEVEN PAGES!!!! - have been spent discussing this extremely small cult which hardly anyone has heard of, and the majority of the posts are by someone (Zeusor) who is a "Serial Cultist"!!! He's been involved in one cult after another (JPUSA, Trinity Foundation International, Moonies and more) and even "hid" from the JC's in the Hare Krishnas in California a few months ago! Do you realize how absurd this whole thing is?!?!?

I've been watching this thread for over a year now, and it is, for the most part, the total obsession of one individual who literally goes from one cult to another, as has been verified to me by those who know him from one of the cults he (and they) used to be in. (My sources shall remain nameless, although, if the moderator wants proof, I will verify it to him and him alone.)

Zeuszor a.k.a. Brian Birmingham : For you own sake - GET A LIFE!!!

Give this topic a rest!

Restraining the gag reflex,

Mark Scheiderer

Who owns the Jesus Christians website?

Internet law is complicated, but the individiual to whom this site is registered could get themselves into very, very serious trouble, especially as this group is now engaging with another minor and a woman with a 3-year old child.

Does whoever owns this site realize they could actually end up in jail if anything happens to these kids?

I dunno, Mark. There are some who could say you're obsessed with the Handmaidens, another fairly small group that nobody much cares about. I don't understand why you are going after Zeuszor in this way. I'm sure Zeuszor has his own reasons for pouring so much energy into this, and unless you know what they are I don't think you are in a position to be so judgmental about this. Even if you think it would be appropriate to exhort him to lighten up about this, you should do so in a humble and loving spirit--and probably privately instead of in this forum.

Mark Scheiderer,

There are probably two seperate issues in your post. Firstly, Zeuszor and how he chooses to spend his time and secondly, whether there is a need for significant discussion on the Jesus Christians.

The first issue appears to be personal and I agree with Counselor 47 is probably best handled privately. I am not sure that telling someone who has been involved in several cult groups to, "get a life" is going to be seen as that helpful. Zeuszor, has been very open regarding his identity and his background and has confessed to being on a spiritual journey. He has chosen to look at various cults from the inside, rather than just reading about them or accepting what others say. He has particular concerns about the Jesus Christians cult.

People on the board don't agree one hundred percent with everything Zeuszor says and does and they generally let him know it. Zeuszor, is being encouraged to seek an appropriate balance between work, family, home life, etc. However, Zeuszor, efforts have brought a lot of information about the Jesus Christians out into the open, that wasn't previously in the public domain. This has been widely appreciated. Also, because people know who he is, he has developed some good sources. The time he has put into developing movie clips for You Tube, has exposed the pecularities of Jesus Christians to a wider audience.

In regards to the second issue. Rick Ross has made his site available to discuss cults and if those interested in a particular cult are able to fill 337 pages, well and good. The bottom line is that it is up to Rick to decide whether he wants to give the issue the space or not.

The size of the group does not diminish its influence, nor its effect on those who joined and have left, or their families. I suspect the reason the group has not been able to grow in the last two years and has in fact declined, is due to the public education that this board affords. Another site has also been developed, where the potential exists for ex members to discuss matters with current members and this is also proving useful in educating the public.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2008 02:13PM by private eyes.

Mr. Mark Scheiderer,

Please let me state plainly that I agree with Private Eyes in this matter. It was by accident that I almost got sucked in this group that calls themselves "christians", though it now seems that they are not (Jesus would certainly not prosecute his detractors). I can not honestly say whether or not I would have been sucked in if this forum had not been here and I was actually critical of this forum at first. Personally, I think that Zeusor is moving forward, just in a way that may not fit your conceptualization of what it means to move forward (or as you put it "get a life"). I have also moved forward, just in a different direction. I don't post to either this or the other forum very much anymore. Also, for reasons I can't explain, I can no longer post in the JC forum and most days I can not even get onto the website. Currently I am working to organize a sunday night bible study group as an out reach of the Lutheran church of which I am a member of (this also is part of why I do not post here very often as of late).

Talamasca,

I think the name of the site owner is somewhere on this thread. Last I knew, her user name on the forum was "Lisa Simpson" and you may recall that my aruing with her about creation vs. evolution was probably the beginning of my disenfranchisement with the JCs (I still want to know what Lisa thinks is the uncaused cause that created the universe for the very existance of the universe is a violation of the laws of physics as I understand it), especially if it can be proven she is an American citizen. I suspect that this ridiculous courts case against the Johnsons could potentially produce the negative affect of the American members of the JCs being investigated by the federal government.




Any rate, take care. I am still watching. However, I am not planning on post much anymore as I continue to move forward. Thanks to those here for helping wake me up. Especially Brian and Malcolm. If you guys are ever in my neck of the woods, let get together for some coffee.

Counselor47, Blacksheep, Private Eyes-

I see your points but here's a few more of my own:

Zeuszor has stated elsewhere that he thinks about the JC's morning,noon and night ( or words to that exact effect.) I do NOT do that with regards to the cult I used to be in or with JPUSA, the other cult that I expose on various sites on the net. Z's complete obsession with this cult is cult-like itself. Without his obsessive posting on this topic, it would have died out a long time ago. How on earth is that healthy? This "cause" of his has become his "god". Perhaps he's still ingesting magic mushrooms for inspiration. Give me a break! If Pete Evans or someone else from TFI was on these boards exposing cults would any of you remain silent? Who ever heard of "hiding" in one cult to avoid another? Don't you get it? It makes no sense. He needs to get a job. ( And quit whining to people behind the scenes.)

Gwen Shaw/End Time Handmaidens is a small, obscure cult, however, with Suzanne Hinn being a member and with dozens of popular Charismatic/Pentecostal leaders being influenced by Shaw's writings, it is NOT an insignificant cult. Rather, behind the scenes if you will, it is a corrupting influence that has seeped into the Church. Shaw is a member of C.Peter Wagner's National Council of Prophetic Elders, joined the Toronto Blessing bandwagon early on and is all gung ho for Todd Bentley's idiotic "revival". In other words, she's a heretic linked up with other heretical movers and shakers. Can the same be said about McKay?

Again, 337 pages of postings on the JC's and McKay has created an ocean of comments with a few chunks of succinct facts thrown in. How is anyone who has never heard of this topic supposed to gain anything from 337 pages of postings? It would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Is there any other topic that has more pages than this one? Step back and look at the big picture here. This is nuts!

Mark Scheiderer

Quote
Mark Scheiderer
Zeuszor has stated elsewhere that he thinks about the JC's morning,noon and night ( or words to that exact effect.) I do NOT do that with regards to the cult I used to be in or with JPUSA, the other cult that I expose on various sites on the net. Z's complete obsession with this cult is cult-like itself. Without his obsessive posting on this topic, it would have died out a long time ago. How on earth is that healthy? This "cause" of his has become his "god". Perhaps he's still ingesting magic mushrooms for inspiration. Give me a break! If Pete Evans or someone else from TFI was on these boards exposing cults would any of you remain silent? Who ever heard of "hiding" in one cult to avoid another? Don't you get it? It makes no sense. He needs to get a job. ( And quit whining to people behind the scenes.

Part of what I object to is you attacking Zeuszor on a thread that is supposed to be about the Jesus Christians. By doing so, you have aligned yourself with the cultists. If you think Zeuszor is out of balance or behaving in an unhealthy way, you should have found another venue to tell him so.

Quote
Mark Scheiderer
Again, 337 pages of postings on the JC's and McKay has created an ocean of comments with a few chunks of succinct facts thrown in. How is anyone who has never heard of this topic supposed to gain anything from 337 pages of postings? It would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Is there any other topic that has more pages than this one? Step back and look at the big picture here. This is nuts!

True, someone who has never heard of this topic is not likely to spend the time to wade through 337 pages. I don't think the discussion boards are intended for newbies to any topic. Once they get beyond about 3 pages I doubt that anyone is going to read them except for people who already have an interest in the topic. The point of a discussion thread is not to inform the curious--there are better avenues for that. A discussion thread is just that: a discussion. It can go on as long as the interested parties have something to discuss.

You might have a point about Zeuszor, Mark. My point is that this is not the right place to make that point.