I am not going to give this up, and I never claimed to represent anybody other than myself.

My specific purpose in my previous post was to demonstrate to this Tofferer person that all of his personal info is out there on the web for anybody to read, and he put it there himself, so therefore he has no right to complain when people read it. Sometimes I do what I do and say what I say for satirical purposes, and am quite deliberately provocative. Sometimes I go overboard, also. However, I do not feel that I crossed any boundaries in my previous post.

Tofferer's the one that put his private business out there, not me. I Googled his name and read all about the guy. It's not stalking. All I am trying to say to him is that if he does not want his business being read about and discussed, then he should not publish it on the Internet for everybody to read.

Private Yahoo! groups and such are for private support for specific groups, etc. This is a public forum. I am free to express myself as I wish within the rules as determined by RR.

My business here is and always has been to educate and warn the general public about this particular group, which I find to be especially volatile and dangerous.

I do not understand, I really don't, how somebody could NOT see that the JCs are an aberrant, overly controlling, authoritarian and abusive Christian sect AKA a "cult." How could Tofferer not get it?

At least he has no intention of joining them. He does not even seem to care about what DM has done to these kids and their families. "This is not my problem." He'll say. Doesn't he see the bigger picture? The only thing that I can figure is that either he's not very bright or else his arrogance and feelings of superiority are being appealed to.

He seems maddeningly naive and I find it so frustrating!

OK, you are right and I give up: no more satirical postings from me about peripheral non-JCs like Tofferer.

Unless somebody posts something truly nasty and vicious (like for instance Al calling somebody a "dyke") then they are off limits as far as I am concerned. They are not the ones I should be worried about, DM and his cronies are.

Like I said earlier, all I want is a truce.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2008 08:41AM by zeuszor.

Probably I have gone too far in my criticism of Tofferer. I am sure that you are a nice guy to meet in person. Please accept my apologies for what you may have perceived as a personal attack against you.

Your perception of the JCs in general and the nature of DM in particular seems awfully naive to me, and I find it very frustrating that you are seemingly so gullible. But It's your life.

We have warned you about what you are involved in. You too, Kirstie.

Never will I write to or about you again. Non-JCs are off-limits, unless it's some extraordinary circumstance. Such is my policy from now on.

Good night.

David McKay maliciously targets his enemies with the fabrications of "blanket" accusations (as the details of any matter would serve to easily discredit him) in the hope that his vilification will obscure the issues being legitimately raised...


Many of us have been in the situation previously where we have defended David, believing at the time that but so doing we were "defending the gospel of Christ"....hence we no longer tend to believe the "testimony" of those now in the JesusChristians (who have no independant livelyhood of their own, no unmonitored (!) communication with anyone external to the JesusChristians with a "critical" perspective of the group and who are hence completely vulnerable to being manipulated in the worst sense...!)


While I agree with you Dogmother that non-JC's are not the focus of this forum, those who choose to stand on tiptoes, at the outskirts of the ring, looking on in amusement, and who then from some safe distance, laugh along with David, at the misery he causes others (....e.g. the fiend, persuading Joe or Casey say that their parents can't love them, other than in the "selfish" fashion that "systemites" are only capable of, while dear old David, of course, loves them "altruistically" due to his better "obediance" to God....)

...those who do so IMO, deserve to suffer the occasional "collateral" damage!!

....but look I'll set myself up here....I'll go the trouble of making myself an utter target for ridicule....I will nominate a member of the JC's that I believe is secretly less than happy with Davids Kingdom of Satan....and Davids eager supporters can then verify that that in fact is not the case!!

David McKay deceptively (but transparently) castigates his critics and the idiots that lap this shallow facade up, will no doubt be able to point at this current "contented" JesusChristian, thoroughly happy with their "lot" in life as evidence that we who post on this site deliberately overstate our case.....(i.e. the self corroborating testimony of the hundred or so former members and their direct families paling into insignificance with the "endorsements" of the current two dozen lives trapped within the JC's....

....all I humbly ask is that Tofferer, (simple) Simon et al....is that they PLEASE produce a current winning endorsement of David from Vicki....thats' all! Nothing more difficult than that!! Prove to the world how wrong I am.......(....or otherwise prove to the world how cretin like your David worship actually is!!)

You can show me up before the world with some words of "appreciation" for the JC's from Vicki......nothing more difficult than that....come on! LET'S HEAR IT! Vicki's own words!!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2008 12:35PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

Malcolm, there seems to be something I am not understanding here. Please PM and explain.

Dave wrote on his cat thread....

"Now apparently Liesel is a vegetarian, so it's a little more understandable with her, but the others, who would not bat an eyelash at eating a chicken are really hypocritical trying to take the high moral ground on my even contemplating killing a chicken and eating it. But back to the more gentle stuff (since I definitely do not eat cats!)... "

Dave, it's befriending a young chicken before killing it that's so telling and chilling about how you operate.

I am gad to hear that you don't eat cats. Why not? They are all sentient beings. You may feel a lot better if you went on a vegetarian diet.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2008 10:53PM by Dogmother.

Tofferer, don't listen to the Cult Awareness Network (CAN). It has been corrupted by a cult. Not Dave, but a very powerful organization.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2008 10:54PM by Dogmother.

Maybe I am just some idiot, but I am over here trying to arrange a face to face meeting with a US Team again. I doubt they'll agree but figure that it's worth trying for. All in the interest of friendlier relations with them, I wanted to extend myself in that direction again.

[welikejesus.com]

OK, I never expected them to agree to it anyway. But it was worth a try. Whatever, no harm done.

Dave tossing a hissy fit [welikejesus.com]
Okay, Lisa, you got me. I am ignorant of science. In fact, I'm so ignorant I don't even understand what you have said about these salamanders. I asked a question about why we have not found jillions of missing links, and you tell me that there is some kind of a salamander in California that (hang on, I gotta check to see how you put it...)

here it is:
Quote Lisa:
It has an original variant, intermediate variants, and an end variant that cannot interbreed with the original type of salamander.


It doesn't even sound like it relates to what I was talking about, but then, I'm ignorant of science, so how would I know?

I have been enjoying and am impressed with the conversation Lisa has started on the JC forum about evolution. Lisa has inadvertantly exposed Dave's inability to apply rational thought to a relatively straight forward discussion. Instead he throws a temper tantrum about how hard it all is, inferring that is easier to go by "faith". The thing is when he does that he is not actually promoting faith, but willful ignorance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2008 01:04PM by apostate.

New article:

[www.washingtontimes.com]

I hadn't heard that DM formed the JCs because of the movie Godspell? That's new to me. Anybody else know about that?

Has anybody ever read the article, "Jesus Christians: Is It a Cult?" from the Cultic Studies Review? A reference to it is posted here:

[www.icsahome.com]

It was dumb of me to try and arrange to meet with a US Team while I am still out here on the West Coast. I never expected them to agree to it anyway. Oh well. It was worth a try. No harm done.

It's never a waste of effort to use reason. You never know who may be watching or listening, right?