Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Dogmother ()
Date: March 13, 2008 10:06PM

Dave's quote-of-the-day....

"Cherry often comments on what an exciting and full life we have lived. She told me the other day (Just got to show off this one!) that what attracted her to me in her high school days is that I wasn't boring! Yeah, I guess THAT'S true! Ha!"

Dave, you are not boring and we are sure your life has been very full. However, may I suggest that at the end we are not judged on excitement but on how well we have loved and are loved by others.

Still, I give it to you, you are exciting and cause much excitement.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2008 10:08PM by Dogmother.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: March 13, 2008 11:01PM

How nice of Cherry to diplomatically disguise her dissatisfaction towards David (a necessary "survival" skill in the JC's of course)....I'm "sure" being disowned by three out of the four of her own children and her remaining daughter Christine committing herself to never having any children, not to mention the delight of being whipped in an attempt to cajole the Johnsons into "funding" the JC's is just the sort of "exciting" life, that in her youth, she always avowed to have with David....

...Is the use of the past tense here (is that a direct quote, Dogmother?) "exciting and full life that we HAVE lived" of those cruel rejoinders to falsely raise my hopes?

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Dogmother ()
Date: March 14, 2008 12:09AM

Yes, Malcolm, that's a direct quote.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: March 14, 2008 06:17AM

From David:

It is amazing how many of these bitter ex-members were actually pretty direction-less when they joined us.


It used to be “pretty hopeless before they joined us,” but it looks as if somebody changed it to “direction-less.”

Yes, Dogmother, DM is the cause of a lot of excitement (in a sense), but he trains his people to think that life outside the JCs is BORING and he'd have them remember their previous lives as generally bad. This is one of the ways in which he traps them.

The link to the (Dogmother's) above quote is here:


What I find really sad are Joe's comments, posted right after DM's. Joe writes:

Yeah, I was pretty boring before I met the JCs.

To which Alan replies:

LOL. Somehow, I doubt that, Joe.

Then Joe comes back with (italics added by myself):

No it's actually true, Alan, and I think my previously boring life was a bi-product of the "respectable" conditions that I was brought up in. Respectability, lukewarmness, and BORING all go hand in hand; and it is only after I met the JCs, forsook all that I had, and started living a bit more "radical" that my life really got exciting. Everything before that was pretty much a drag (although I had accomplished a few things that people might THINK weren't necessarily boring).

Joe is showing us that he has rewritten his biography against the template of DM's indoctrination. He is remembering his life before he was lured in as “lukewarm” and "BORING.”

This is a very telling post from Joe, is it not? What can I say? I am so sad for him. Joe, I hope that you are happy and safe. You ought to call your parents. May God bless you.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2008 06:21AM by zeuszor.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Dogmother ()
Date: March 14, 2008 07:18AM

Yes, Zeuszor, the kind of constant "excitement" Dave is talking about has a very detrimental effect on the body and soul.

Getting back to kidney donations, here is a piece someome on the LDF posted in reply to "our" Dave reasoning that lies are good. I am putting this up for discussion. I tend to agree with the writer.

"Dave, you wrote:
"We have seen legislation changed in both Australia and England as a direct result of the publicity generated by our group. We were, for example, strongly criticised when we announced that two of our members had to lie about how long they had known someone in order to donate to them in Australia, and it was only a few weeks later that the laws were changed in our state to allow anonymous donations for the first time!"

Am I getting this right: Two of your members lied to the hospital during the evaluation process for a kidney donation, received publicity because of it, and as a result - in a few weeks- *laws* in your State were changed to allow anonymous donations?

I can't make the jump in that logic, but that aside, I don't think that any publicity is good publicity as far as altruistic organ donations is concerned. I think one side effect of the lies will be that the honest altruistic donors that follow will have a more difficult time with the evaluations as a result. It may enforce the unfortunate suspicion that some of the transplant centres have of altruistic donors."

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Dogmother ()
Date: March 14, 2008 07:28AM

Two of Dave's members "had to lie!"

Who told them to lie? Who is behind all those JC donations?

Does anyone know how Ezra is feeling?

There is a very disturbing today's post by Al on the JC site about drinking stuff.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: March 14, 2008 07:09PM

Malcolm wrote:
"How nice of Cherry to diplomatically disguise her dissatisfaction towards David ... I'm "sure" being disowned by three out of the four of her own children... is just the sort of "exciting" life, that in her youth, she always avowed to have with David...."

I don't think Cherry's children have disowned her, Malcolm. My understanding is that she is restricted in contacting them and when one of her children raised the matter on the JC forum it resulted in her claiming it was her own decision to cease communications. The children who have been ex-communicated have simply accepted her decision. Its on the JC forum record (Kev's Gripes) that Kevin was open to rescheduling a visit that Dave had canceled, but then he was banned. Dave and Cherry's estrangement has always been a matter of their choosing.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Blackhat ()
Date: March 14, 2008 07:54PM


Are you saying it is the parent(s) that have renounced or disowned the children? Oh My!! Please clarify/extrapolate......

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: March 14, 2008 08:20PM

Yes..I see you point Apostate.....pardon me for some careless wording there...I meant to note (as you have already observed with your remark about her "restricted" relationships) that Cherry was "expected" to discontinue contact in a (sorry) show of solidarity with the fiend who makes a living out of poisoning the relationships others enjoy.....(where those friendships then threaten to "distract" individuals from the centrality of DJM in their lives)....

Sherry was courageously philosophical about it, when I last spoke to her....stating to me that her mother, "chooses" to be in (resigned?) submission..... and hence implying that she didn't deserve a great deal of sympathy......learning to hate, (in the greater service of Satan) all the previous family and friends that you once had in order to be free enough to devote yourself to a lifetime hocking the third rate literature that David produces in order that he can then entrap others in the lifestyle in which you too are ensnared.....

Hmm...well....thats not just excruciatingly mediocre, is it!!....I mean....why that's excitingly mediocre, isn't it!!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2008 08:22PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: March 15, 2008 05:20AM

Hi Blackhat,

To clarify/extrapolate...

Dave expelled his youngest son in India just before Christmas in 1994, because he insisted on the right to make his own policy on what sweets his children could and couldn't eat. He was given just 15 minutes to pack his bags and leave with his three children (one less than a year old). Dave withheld their tickets and passport, and as he escorted him out of the slum compound fell to the ground pretending that his son had pushed him. Dave's son and family survived for several days on the charity of an Indian volunteer and negotiated the return of passports and tickets, arriving in Sydney on Christmas day with not enough money to get a taxi from the airport and with no place to go. Saint Vincent De Paul helped them out of that crisis. In 1995 Dave offered them to stay as rent paying guests in their house at Baulkham Hills where efforts were made to discourage him from applying to do Medicine and to suggest his wife should leave him.

A strained relationship continued until about 18 months ago when I brought up an issue on their forum in relation to Dave's teaching on Honest to Whom. Dave, in retaliation emailed and phoned his son threatening to name him to police to protect himself unless he could get me to withdraw the accusation. He (not knowing anything about my identity or the forum) has asked his father not to speak to him again, so technically, that son has ended the relationship with his father, although it has been clearly a matter of self defence in the face of Dave's total disregard for that relationship.

The eldest son, as has been covered previously, became the target of a witch hunt when Dave felt frustrated by his tendency to trouble shoot Dave's proposals to the group, asked the entire community to sort him out while he went overseas to promote the Easy English series which Kevin illustrated. After four months of interrogative emails, I asked as team leader, for some space to allow him to participate with the rest of the team, and I was seen as contaminated by his influence. Dave's paranoia grew and believing that we were planing a coup, he returned to Australia and tried to enlist his eldest daughter and husband in taking most of the community away so there would be no witnesses when he expelled us both. That plan came to light before the witnesses had been dispersed and Dave refusing to give account for the secret meetings in the night, declared he would never be accountable to us again and those who didn't like it could leave, which resulted in the entire Australian base leaving on Easter Sunday 1998. Roland who served the role of bouncer threatened to punch his face in and tried to physically obstruct Kevin from re-entering the house at one stage. Dave repeated his fall to the ground trick.

Dave printed and the community distributed thousands of copies of a fictitious account of the excommunication, called The Split which made slanderous accusations against his son.

Dave had told Kevin he would lose his artistic talent outside of the community, but when his son sent the cover art work for the Liberator 2 as a peace offering, it was returned with a note saying "You are not worthy to give us anything" and the artwork used anyway.

Strained intermittent visits continued until late 2005 when after the birth of their daughter Kevin called his mother to invite his parents around for Christmas. Dave was not there and Cherry told him that Dave did not want her talking to him without him present. Kevin questioned whether this should preclude her from speaking to her grandchildren and she sent a letter soon after saying she did not appreciate the attempt to "manipulate" her.

The matter was raised on the JC forum. Cherry denied being restricted at all by Dave's demands, and claimed it was her decision to cease communications, and said that while her children are in contact with people who oppose them she cannot communicate with them. Kevin declared his door open whenever Dave wanted to reschedule a visit he had cancelled. Soon after, while opposing the witch hunt that was being stirred up against someone Dave was falsely claiming to be me, Kevin was banned from the JC forum.

Dave's eldest daughter, as already stated, was asked in 1998 to participate in a plot to remove those who might oppose Dave expelling his son and me. She fled the room in distress, and with her husband made an independent decision to leave the JC's. She and her family continue to live by faith, and continued to send family newsletters and birthday greetings until Dave instructed every JC (including those who have never met her) to write hateful letter asking her to cease communicating with the community. While attending a Quaker conference in Brisbane, and (ironically) chairing a workshop on reconciling differences, he wrote a letter to her saying they would not be visiting because he has decided they are "enemies posing as friends". This claim was made on the basis that he assumed they write to me. The irony is that I have received more communication from Dave than them and much that Sheri has written to me involved issues of difference.

Then on the Australian Story, Dave in an extended interview denounced his children for leaving him to live "the easy life", a life of "self indulgence", with nothing said of their achievements on their own in the world despite his negative predictions.

Dave can play the martyr talking about how he and Cherry will be satisfied that they lived an "exciting" life if they end up dying of neglect on the street, but he is only describing what he has done to his own relationship with his children.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2008 05:21AM by apostate.

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