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Blackhat
This is potent stuff. What a book! Legals will be a cost, of course, unless one of our posters is/knows a silk?

I agree that if it happens, it should be balanced, giving due recognition to all the good things faithful people have done. A kind of "4 Corners" approach.....with due emphasis on the sombre and painful results??

"Faith, Folly and Fallacy - Life inside the Jesus Christians"

Blackhat, call me naive, but legals? What's the legal problem? And what's a silk?

And, I like your catchy title!

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Jack Oskar Larm
Blackhat, call me naive, but legals? What's the legal problem? And what's a silk?

And, I like your catchy title!

If someone thinks you have defamed them, you'll need a QC (Silk).

Love the idea of a book! Some of you may be interested in checking out a blog called "the guru looked good" where an ex devotee offers writing courses and puts short stories on her blog written by various ex group members.
Cultmalleus, Apostate, your writings are emotionally wrenching and thought provoking.I admire your courage.

Zeuszor, you might find it helpful to look at the "Tm Free" blog. There are articles written by a counselor on that site who works with clients recovering after a cult experience.Two articles in particular are worth reading "Cult Recovery: The Razors edge" and "Rebalancing your life after leaving a cult" you might find both of them to have some helpful ideas.

Hope these may be of some use, Yasmin



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2008 04:16PM by yasmin.

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zeuszor
I have stared into the abyss, and have seen his evil, have looked into his eyes, meditated on what must make him tick, and have emulated his warped ways.

The emotion, the raw anger, overtook me temporarily and in that am no better than DM. It is true; he just played me right into his hands.

God forgive me; I am disgusted with myself.

That statement says more about me than it does about DM. I am ashamed to have said it.

It is just that I find it all so depressing and enraging. I want to cry and scream out. It's the worst thing I could imagine. The worst thing I could imagine.

This DM is the deepest evil that I can conceive of.

DM is, I have realized, using me as well; he's using me and my zeal in order to further manipulate naive young minds. I have allowed him to get into my head and control me, without even being in his physical presence.

He's manipulating me from a distance and I am not even an ex-member, just some guy who met them once and left with an indelible impression marked on his soul.

DM laughing riotously when I looked him in the eyes and called him my nemesis, that memory haunts me. So disturbing to witness the man up close.

What have I done?!

I have developed an unhealthy and unbalanced preoccupation with the matter and have got to get away from it for a little while.

It is just that I cannot get away from it in my mind: if I am praying, I am thinking about the Jesus Christians. If I am eating lunch, I am thinking about the Jesus Christians. If I am taking a shower, I am thinking about the Jesus Christians. When I wake up and when I go to bed, I am thinking about the Jesus Christians.

I pray for and about them constantly, and commit the matter into the hands of The Almighty.

DM, in the end, will get what is coming to him whether we act or not.

Zeus, this is the first point from Zimbardo's resisting influences:

1. Do not maintain an illusion of “personal invulnerability” – If it can happen to them, then it can happen to you too.

Welcome to a taste of what an ex member experiences. It should help you appreciate why some stay silent for years. Dave will try to use your own ideology and zeal to his own ends which then causes you feel guilty if you don't and guilty if you do.

Dave Mckay already has received what is coming to him. His own mother is estranged, his brother strongly disagree with him, his children, bar one want nothing to do with him. His grandchildren just about don't even know who he is. He is in the "outer darkness" he tries to put others in, and he did it all to himself. Practically everyone who has met him has strong criticisms to say regarding his actions and twisted teachings. He lives in a hellish existance of having to try and think of every angle so he can plot and scheme his way to get more attention for his cause. He despises those who follow him, abusing them verbally at every opportunity. He recently referred to Grace as just another "religious" person involved in a disagreement with Glenn. In Dave's world calling someone "religious" is the same as saying they are dead spiritually. He mocks Jose attempts to reason with him about how the fact that having a "FLAME" thread where he bans people to is unchristian.

Zeus, have a beer or two, or three. Watch a movie, read a sci fi book. Go fishing, Stop praying for them. Exercise letting them go from your thoughts. Buy a harley. It works for me.

Just for the record, I am not "Exodus" on the JC forum. Why would I give up a perfectly good avatar like hot stuff, especially after doing so many of those quizzes.

You can guarantee that Dave will seek to drag us before the courts if we print the book. One of his followers may end up taking a whipping as a result.

A little later on I will share some positive feelings and fun times I experienced while in the Jesus Christians. It is good to have a mind free enough to do so.

I think it's important to get some perspective. I certainly don't dwell on my time in the JC's. It was a significant part of my life, and it is important to reflect and learn. It is important to alert those who might be decieved by the JC relating. They are full time commited "relaters", always trying to get new "sheep". I have a responsibility to be part of defending against that, and also to share as a means of healing myself.

However, there are far worse things in the world. There are far worse cults. I was comforted by the fact they got Joe out of Kenya, there is some sense of responsibility and common sense. Not to detract from the bad things, especially the mental manipulation and the elevation of ideology above love and compassion and relationships, but I see no evidence of a "Heavens Gate" or a Jonestown.

I recognise that in the global scheme of things, in the scope of history, they do not compare with so many other evils. They do not compare with child soldiers being forced to chop off limbs of other children and throw them, still alive, into a toilet hole. My little traumas and battles over self esteem are insignificant compared with the millions of children crying for their dead parents or the millions of parents crying over dead children, from war, disease and starvation.

The biggest evil of the JC's is that some of the most idealistic young people in our country are being diverted from amazing work, perhaps dealing with these much larger evils in a really significant way, to waste the best part of their lives trying to please Dave's changeable whims and selling books. The work they do in a humanitarian sense is unfortunately contaminated by trying to "preach the gospel" (a very judgemental and black and white "gospel") and is dissipated by having a completely arbitrary Dave-o-centric way of doing things. They shun learning from others and being a part of other groups who know how to do things better, and never keep faithfully working to create something sustainable over years.

There are some much better options:

Sunrise Childrens Association
village volunteers
World Youth International
4th World Movement
Christian communities servants to Asia's urban poor

plus there are so much more;
Secular, Christian, Radical christian, but none of them cults.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2008 06:26PM by cultmalleus.

Zeuszor:

Try to keep things in perspective.

Dave McKay controls a very small group.

There are much larger groups called "cults" doing much more damage to many more people, such as Scientology, Rev. Moon's Unification Church, polygamist sects and groups that routinely cause deaths due to medical neglect such as Charles Meade Ministries and the General Assembly Church of the First Born. Not to mention the Jehovah's Witnesses that die every year over the issue of blood transfusions.

Dealing with destructive cults can be exhausting and very frustrating at times.

There seems to be a new group popping up almost daily and there are literally thousands of Dave McKays running around making various claims about themselves and their group's supposed importance.

At times it seems there should be a cult leader convention, where they all might meet and finally decide which one is the "real deal," the most authentic means of understanding God or whatever higher power they claim to represent.

Of course since each leader is so ego-driven, they could never come to such an agreement.

And remember, the "cult" business is big business.

Maharishi controls a global financial empire of between $5 and $9 billion dollars.

Rev. Moon not only owns a large chunk of the American fishing fleet and sushi business, but also media outlets such as Associated Press and the Washington Times. Moon's fortune is estimated at about $4 billion dollars. And a former employee of Rev. Moon now is in charge of the UN World Food Program.

Scientology has been on a property buying binge lately, paying millions, often in cash, for building after building. They own most of downtown Clearwater and good bit of Hollywood real estate. And Will Smith seems to have become Scientology's most recent celebrity supporter.

Again, putting Dave McKay within this context doesn't make him any better, but demonstrates he is relatively smaller as a "cult" problem.

Of course this in no way diminishes the horrible damage McKay has done and continues to wreck upon individual members and families.

It just makes you realize what a little man Dave McKay really is and what a failure his life has proven to be, even as a "cult" leader.

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Blackhat
If someone thinks you have defamed them, you'll need a QC (Silk).

But the purpose of the book would be biographical in nature. It wouldn't be an outright attack on McKay. There have been many precedents where people have written about their experiences within other groups or relationships. It would be a first hand account from the author/s' perspective. For instance, do you think I would have to consult legal advice if I wrote the honest story of my brutal childhood? It would certainly make my own father look very bad, which he certainly was. And that is verifiable fact!

I'm not saying your wrong, but it seems awfully restricting for an individual who wishes to write and publish his/her own experiences. I'm not suggesting that people make up stuff, but if they do, then that would be fiction.

I have experience with publishing my memoir which has been on the market--doing well--for over two years. (Nothing to do with Dave and cults.)

In a memoir you have to stick to the truth and try not to sensationalize and embellish which is a temptation.

If you guys go that route, remember what happened to James Fry and his "A Million little Pieces."

Where Dave is concerned, however, truth is stranger than fiction.

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apostate

Zeus, this is the first point from Zimbardo's resisting influences:

1. Do not maintain an illusion of “personal invulnerability” – If it can happen to them, then it can happen to you too.

Welcome to a taste of what an ex member experiences. It should help you appreciate why some stay silent for years. Dave will try to use your own ideology and zeal to his own ends which then causes you feel guilty if you don't and guilty if you do.

Dave Mckay already has received what is coming to him. His own mother is estranged, his brother strongly disagree with him, his children, bar one want nothing to do with him. His grandchildren just about don't even know who he is. He is in the "outer darkness" he tries to put others in, and he did it all to himself. Practically everyone who has met him has strong criticisms to say regarding his actions and twisted teachings. He lives in a hellish existance of having to try and think of every angle so he can plot and scheme his way to get more attention for his cause. He despises those who follow him, abusing them verbally at every opportunity. He recently referred to Grace as just another "religious" person involved in a disagreement with Glenn. In Dave's world calling someone "religious" is the same as saying they are dead spiritually. He mocks Jose attempts to reason with him about how the fact that having a "FLAME" thread where he bans people to is unchristian.

Zeus, have a beer or two, or three. Watch a movie, read a sci fi book. Go fishing, Stop praying for them. Exercise letting them go from your thoughts. Buy a harley. It works for me.
[/quote]

So you advise me to quit praying for the situation and go get drunk. This, from the man who once wrote, in reference to the Holy Bible:


I reckon the Harry Potter series is better.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Yeah, right. That's real constructive advice.

Man, I believe in Almighty God and that's that. I firmly believe that God is in control of all things. I love Jesus and consider this this I am involved in part of my "reasonable service."

I am not telling you what to believe or what to think, and I am sorry that you got burned by DM so bad that you now are an atheist, but I am not interested in that approach. I am not interested in being an atheist.

I love you, but that's not me.

Quit praying for them and go have a few beers?

Man, I haven't had a dnink in about three weeks. When I was in the thick of this thing over last summer I was getting drunk frequently and having the occasional toke (or two, or three!)

But I have had enough self-medication. I was on my way to becoming a full-fledged alcoholic. It drove me to drinkin', thinking about Demoniac David.

Nowadays I pray and meditate for at least three hours a day. Peace and quiet.

Like George Costanza's dad said on that episode of Seinfeld: "Serenity now! SERENITY NOW!"

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2008 05:13AM by zeuszor.

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Dogmother
I have experience with publishing my memoir which has been on the market--doing well--for over two years. (Nothing to do with Dave and cults.)

In a memoir you have to stick to the truth and try not to sensationalize and embellish which is a temptation.

If you guys go that route, remember what happened to James Fry and his "A Million little Pieces."

Where Dave is concerned, however, truth is stranger than fiction.

What's your memoir called? No doubt it's available through Amazon.

When I read Fry's book, it totally blew me away. Being a literary type myself, I really appreciated what he was doing with his style and grammar. But when he called it a memoir and it was revealed to be anything but, it certainly was disappointing. And he deserved the controversy (and any legal ramifications that followed). No doubt it sold even more copies after that, though.

Yes, truth is far stranger than fiction. Let's keep it that way!