Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: September 25, 2007 01:04PM
Quote
I have seen Iraqis incapacitated with Ketamine as well, they'd be put in a "K-Hole". That's a fun one...it's not so bad to be incapacitated on K (that's what I heard, anyhow...
The PAs would give K to Iraqi prisoners/detainees when they'd get antsy as (what they called) a "chemical restraint". It'd do the job, all right. Put them out and keep them quiet good for a while. Good stuff, all right...
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: September 28, 2007 11:06PM
From the “The list you’ve all been waiting for (official RR grudges)”
May 18th 2007
(Narcissistic preamble…)
“And so it goes, throughout the whole list. You don't find anything someone can hold up and say, "This is why I left the group." And the reason is that they left the group because they lost an interest in growing spiritually, but they wanted to pretend that they left because they were victims of some unspeakable oppression (so they can tell themselves that they are heroes for having left). So what do they come up with when asked to compile a list? They say they left because I referred to myself as an "apostle", or because I said "manipulation" is technically another word for "management"... as though THAT is why they left! Ha!
No wonder it has taken so long to get them to post their grievances here... because the whole list becomes one huge joke!”
David McKay
David deliberately strives to undermine the criticisms made of him, by describing them as “grudges”..(..”criminal charges” and “crimes against humanity” would be of course more accurate) However, to address, in more detail, the remark, that….
You don’t find anything someone can hold up and say, “That is why I left the group”
While I certainly cannot speak for all of the Christian people who left the JC’s (unlike the formerly Christian people who sold out their faith to remain), I was perpetually a “scapegoat” in the last year or so in the JesusChristians, subject to the constant harassment of public humiliation and personal denigration (Grievance Meetings that were doctored to force “confessions” from me for daring to differ from David on one point after another, by tormenting me with manufactured faults…..)…Despite the fact that I continued to aspire to the what I thought were the “ideals” behind it all, in the middle of 1985 the perpetual pressure to “conform” by forever being degraded (I was frequently named as someone who could never “lead” because I “failed” to follow, and was publicly nominated by David as a “Megalomaniac” among other things. Others were warned of the dangers of associating with me and of thus risking acquiring my “rebellious, bitter” spirit) before the “entire world” (that we were permitted to know in any event), was a major reason incentive, for me to go.
Although I would now deny that David lives anywhere remotely near the ideals I once confused him with, at the time of my departure, the persistent psychological goading that I was forever “unworthy” was a major reason “why I left the group”…..
As David’s response (and here I refute the falsehoods he employs to “justify” his most common canards) to this will be to:
Deny responsibility for “group” disciplines, that he never “personally” initiated:
(The JesusChristians are a class based (“leaders” and “followers”) gerrymander, where individuals are “denied” access to information and support external to the organization, by persuading them that they are “threatening” their own faith, if they choose to fellowship with persons or ideas, external to Davids’ religious empire. Members are also instructed to deny that this is the case and to publicly describe themselves as an a egalitatian commune of committed people. The current members who write in support of David on his newspeak postings are the MINORITY, who have “bought” into the system)
Accuse me of “failing” in my Christian faith: (hence that is, assert, or imply, that I “deserved” the treatment I received):
(As evidence of Davids’ disingenuous prevarications in the wilfully false accusations that he uses in endeavours to mask his own wickedness, I note that there is not a SINGLE former member (who has spoken out publicly) that David has not slandered and that there are in fact NEVER satisfactory reasons for any individual, to disengage with the group. As David cannot provide examples of anyone, INDEPENDENT of him, who satisfies the “scriptural” chimera of his grotesque whimsy, his “philosophy” can thus be seen to be the self-serving cant that it is.
Claim that I have maliciously exaggerated the “injuries” I suffered:
David is necessarily, constantly at war with the truth, in order to defend the inventions he engages in. However as we may judge people by what they choose to “do unto others”…David own bombastic bluster in response to the charges and criticisms the Quakers (or many others) have made against him, would seem a reasonable “standard” by which I might estimate how serious the “injuries” I consider myself (and others) to have suffered from my time in the JesusChristians. By the offence he invents taking, at the questions directed at David, every former member of the JC’s is evidently more than justified in their charges of personal injury against David. David insincerely bellows “wolf” at every insinuation against him, while simultaneously covertly engaging in far, far more insidious behaviour himself.
I submit that the fact David continually CHOOSES to equivocate the truth in his favour with the three examples of clearly dishonest reasoning that I have presented, supports the charges presented in these pages, that David himself, is in fact an avaricious fraud who deliberately preys on the ideals of others to entrap them in servitude into his own narrow prostitution of the gospel, from which he directly profits, both materially and in the demented pleasure he draws, simply and purely, from wielding power over the lives of others, by inflicting his will on them. That’s how low he is…..
May 18th 2007
(Narcissistic preamble…)
“And so it goes, throughout the whole list. You don't find anything someone can hold up and say, "This is why I left the group." And the reason is that they left the group because they lost an interest in growing spiritually, but they wanted to pretend that they left because they were victims of some unspeakable oppression (so they can tell themselves that they are heroes for having left). So what do they come up with when asked to compile a list? They say they left because I referred to myself as an "apostle", or because I said "manipulation" is technically another word for "management"... as though THAT is why they left! Ha!
No wonder it has taken so long to get them to post their grievances here... because the whole list becomes one huge joke!”
David McKay
David deliberately strives to undermine the criticisms made of him, by describing them as “grudges”..(..”criminal charges” and “crimes against humanity” would be of course more accurate) However, to address, in more detail, the remark, that….
You don’t find anything someone can hold up and say, “That is why I left the group”
While I certainly cannot speak for all of the Christian people who left the JC’s (unlike the formerly Christian people who sold out their faith to remain), I was perpetually a “scapegoat” in the last year or so in the JesusChristians, subject to the constant harassment of public humiliation and personal denigration (Grievance Meetings that were doctored to force “confessions” from me for daring to differ from David on one point after another, by tormenting me with manufactured faults…..)…Despite the fact that I continued to aspire to the what I thought were the “ideals” behind it all, in the middle of 1985 the perpetual pressure to “conform” by forever being degraded (I was frequently named as someone who could never “lead” because I “failed” to follow, and was publicly nominated by David as a “Megalomaniac” among other things. Others were warned of the dangers of associating with me and of thus risking acquiring my “rebellious, bitter” spirit) before the “entire world” (that we were permitted to know in any event), was a major reason incentive, for me to go.
Although I would now deny that David lives anywhere remotely near the ideals I once confused him with, at the time of my departure, the persistent psychological goading that I was forever “unworthy” was a major reason “why I left the group”…..
As David’s response (and here I refute the falsehoods he employs to “justify” his most common canards) to this will be to:
Deny responsibility for “group” disciplines, that he never “personally” initiated:
(The JesusChristians are a class based (“leaders” and “followers”) gerrymander, where individuals are “denied” access to information and support external to the organization, by persuading them that they are “threatening” their own faith, if they choose to fellowship with persons or ideas, external to Davids’ religious empire. Members are also instructed to deny that this is the case and to publicly describe themselves as an a egalitatian commune of committed people. The current members who write in support of David on his newspeak postings are the MINORITY, who have “bought” into the system)
Accuse me of “failing” in my Christian faith: (hence that is, assert, or imply, that I “deserved” the treatment I received):
(As evidence of Davids’ disingenuous prevarications in the wilfully false accusations that he uses in endeavours to mask his own wickedness, I note that there is not a SINGLE former member (who has spoken out publicly) that David has not slandered and that there are in fact NEVER satisfactory reasons for any individual, to disengage with the group. As David cannot provide examples of anyone, INDEPENDENT of him, who satisfies the “scriptural” chimera of his grotesque whimsy, his “philosophy” can thus be seen to be the self-serving cant that it is.
Claim that I have maliciously exaggerated the “injuries” I suffered:
David is necessarily, constantly at war with the truth, in order to defend the inventions he engages in. However as we may judge people by what they choose to “do unto others”…David own bombastic bluster in response to the charges and criticisms the Quakers (or many others) have made against him, would seem a reasonable “standard” by which I might estimate how serious the “injuries” I consider myself (and others) to have suffered from my time in the JesusChristians. By the offence he invents taking, at the questions directed at David, every former member of the JC’s is evidently more than justified in their charges of personal injury against David. David insincerely bellows “wolf” at every insinuation against him, while simultaneously covertly engaging in far, far more insidious behaviour himself.
I submit that the fact David continually CHOOSES to equivocate the truth in his favour with the three examples of clearly dishonest reasoning that I have presented, supports the charges presented in these pages, that David himself, is in fact an avaricious fraud who deliberately preys on the ideals of others to entrap them in servitude into his own narrow prostitution of the gospel, from which he directly profits, both materially and in the demented pleasure he draws, simply and purely, from wielding power over the lives of others, by inflicting his will on them. That’s how low he is…..
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: October 01, 2007 12:20AM
David’s intellectually spurious efforts to emasculate the criticism against him, by assuring all and sundry in page after page, that his accusers are nothing more than “faithless and ungrateful scoundrels, prompted only by the bitterness in their hearts” (etcetera etcetera, so on , ad naseum) do not seem to sit very comfortably to my mind with the postings on the Australian Quaker Forum by a one (sic) very pious little miss from Kenya who identifies herself as “Christine” from the Jesus Christians:
Hi. I'm new to this forum. My name is Christine and I currently live in Kenya, though I've had involvement with Australian Friends for quite a few years. I work with Friends here in Kenya, and am also a member of the Jesus Christians, and am the daughter of Dave and Cherry.
I guess I'm probably stating the obvious here, but thought it was worth making a comment that "labels" can be used in lots of different ways. Some labels are just simply a name that we give to something without any emotional attachment or intent one way or the other. But there are other labels which are purposely designed to give a negative picture of anything that is given that label. I think "pencil" and "cult" are good examples of those. Of course there are a lot of other labels that fall somewhere in that spectrum.
I once heard a Friend reverse the order in this common schoolyard saying:
"Sticks and stone may hurt my bones, but names will never hurt me!"
I don't recall the exact way it was rewritten, but the thought was that "names" or "labels" can often hurt more than sticks and stones. I feel that is quite true, though it doesn't mean I'll be throwing sticks and stones at anyone!
Christine Tuesday January 23rd
In a forum where she thinks no-one will be familiar with the YEARS of vile vitriol with which David Mckay has hatefully “named” and “labeled” others, sweet little Christine endeavours to impress with her noble observations about the injustice of prejudicially manipulated perceptions.
While fair Christine, no doubt was seeking to sublimely disassociate those in the JC’s with the hubris of the term“cult” (that forever appears to follow them for some reason or another) ; We nevertheless, thus have David McKay busy vituperatively maligning those whose testimonies he so needs desperately needs to “discount”, while at the same time moralizing miss Christine “deplores” the damage that the use of malicious “labeling” may cause…
As in her latest posting, we see that Christine observes that:
The internet is an interesting phenomenon. In many ways it offers greater free speech than the regular media, which is often controlled by big corporations with invested interests. So in that sense the internet is a wonderful source of information and seems limitless.
But one disadvantage with the internet is that because it is so free and easy, there is not much accountability for what people write and it's hard sometimes to determine what is factual and what is not. So while it's a source to be used and appreciated, it's also something to use discretion with.
Christine Tuesday September 25th
Hence, I feel sure that due to her “sincere” faith in God and wider “principles”, that Christine will shortly go on record publicly denouncing her father for engaging in the very practices she has so roundly condemned elsewhere…..
…because if she were NOT to do that….
…well, some less than kind people might assume that her much trumpeted “faith” and wider “integrity” to be an utter farce….
(…the broader lesson, perhaps being here, the dangers of the company one chooses to keep?....)
Hi. I'm new to this forum. My name is Christine and I currently live in Kenya, though I've had involvement with Australian Friends for quite a few years. I work with Friends here in Kenya, and am also a member of the Jesus Christians, and am the daughter of Dave and Cherry.
I guess I'm probably stating the obvious here, but thought it was worth making a comment that "labels" can be used in lots of different ways. Some labels are just simply a name that we give to something without any emotional attachment or intent one way or the other. But there are other labels which are purposely designed to give a negative picture of anything that is given that label. I think "pencil" and "cult" are good examples of those. Of course there are a lot of other labels that fall somewhere in that spectrum.
I once heard a Friend reverse the order in this common schoolyard saying:
"Sticks and stone may hurt my bones, but names will never hurt me!"
I don't recall the exact way it was rewritten, but the thought was that "names" or "labels" can often hurt more than sticks and stones. I feel that is quite true, though it doesn't mean I'll be throwing sticks and stones at anyone!
Christine Tuesday January 23rd
In a forum where she thinks no-one will be familiar with the YEARS of vile vitriol with which David Mckay has hatefully “named” and “labeled” others, sweet little Christine endeavours to impress with her noble observations about the injustice of prejudicially manipulated perceptions.
While fair Christine, no doubt was seeking to sublimely disassociate those in the JC’s with the hubris of the term“cult” (that forever appears to follow them for some reason or another) ; We nevertheless, thus have David McKay busy vituperatively maligning those whose testimonies he so needs desperately needs to “discount”, while at the same time moralizing miss Christine “deplores” the damage that the use of malicious “labeling” may cause…
As in her latest posting, we see that Christine observes that:
The internet is an interesting phenomenon. In many ways it offers greater free speech than the regular media, which is often controlled by big corporations with invested interests. So in that sense the internet is a wonderful source of information and seems limitless.
But one disadvantage with the internet is that because it is so free and easy, there is not much accountability for what people write and it's hard sometimes to determine what is factual and what is not. So while it's a source to be used and appreciated, it's also something to use discretion with.
Christine Tuesday September 25th
Hence, I feel sure that due to her “sincere” faith in God and wider “principles”, that Christine will shortly go on record publicly denouncing her father for engaging in the very practices she has so roundly condemned elsewhere…..
…because if she were NOT to do that….
…well, some less than kind people might assume that her much trumpeted “faith” and wider “integrity” to be an utter farce….
(…the broader lesson, perhaps being here, the dangers of the company one chooses to keep?....)
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: October 01, 2007 10:24PM
Dear Ross,
My sincerest condolences in relation to the recent death of your father. I hope that you had opportunity to personally meet up beforehand. A sincere gentleman, I thought. (I met with him once en route to Tallangatta, while we were both returning together from an outreach in Melbourne).
May God receive his soul.
My sincerest condolences in relation to the recent death of your father. I hope that you had opportunity to personally meet up beforehand. A sincere gentleman, I thought. (I met with him once en route to Tallangatta, while we were both returning together from an outreach in Melbourne).
May God receive his soul.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
cait
()
Date: October 02, 2007 08:03PM
Dear Ross,
Nick and I also want to offer our love and support to you on the death of your father. While we have no acquaintance with your family, you are of them - they have made you who you are, and we remain grateful to you for your support of Ashwyn in recent years.
Our prayers are with you and your family now.
God be with you,
Kate
Nick and I also want to offer our love and support to you on the death of your father. While we have no acquaintance with your family, you are of them - they have made you who you are, and we remain grateful to you for your support of Ashwyn in recent years.
Our prayers are with you and your family now.
God be with you,
Kate
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: October 03, 2007 04:13AM
JESUS CHRISTIANS NEWSLETTER #93, OCTOBER, 2007
CD'S GOING LIKE HOTCAKES
The Australian team distributed all of the first 10,000 "Survivor"
CDs in just a matter of weeks, and now has taken delivery of a second
run of 20,000 more CDs, which is not even expected to last them until
Christmas. They say that the German version of "Survivors" which
also appears on the CD, is especially popular amongst German tourists
in Sydney.
KENYA VOLUNTEERS
We have started having more regular meetings with the board that
oversees our work in Kenya, in the hope of getting more local Quakers
inspired about helping with the work. Most volunteers participating
in the work so far are non-Quakers (and a large percentage have been
coming from overseas), so we hope to adjust the balance through more
promotion within local Friends Churches.
THE READING PROGRAM
After a short retreat for much needed inreach during the school
holidays, the volunteers in Kenya have resumed the reading program in
ten local schools. A few schools have reached their first target,
which is to get ten percent of their students through the entire
program. Each school that has achieved that goal has been awarded
with a lunch party for the teachers and staff. They have until the
end of the year to make that goal. In the new year we will be
selecting ten new schools to help out.
There have been a number of requests from Catholic Schools in the
area for us to take the reading program to them as well, and the
board approved us doing this, which we are hopeful will promote much
goodwill between the two churches, which are the main two
denominations in Western Kenya.
Boni and Andrew, two friends of ours,continue to distribute over
2000 Easy English booksper weekto schools that are not in our area.
BASKETBALL
Joe recently arrived back from the U.S., and we have been finalising
the basketball court at a local school, whereJoe plans to teach the
sport to school children. With another holiday break coming up, we
are considering a special basketball camp as one option for holiday
activities.
A SUCCESSFUL FAITH OUTREACH
Casey, Giddy and Karl went out on a faith outreach to a neighbouring
village for a few days with outstanding success. They had a
wonderful time and learned a lot of good lessons about living by
faith and not relying on visible means of support. On the first day
of their outreach, they were sitting on the side of the road waiting
on God when two women approached them and said that they had seen one
of them in Nairobi (hundreds of miles south of there) and recognised
them. They invited the trio to come and stay with their family for
the duration of their outreach, and now one of the women is assisting
as a volunteer in the community center in Shinyalu.
Volunteers from overseas continue to come through, with a young woman
from South Korea arriving even as we have been typing this newsletter.
CASEY THE PREACHER!
Towards the end of the month, we were invited to preach at a church
in the local forest. Casey delivered a message on Amos8:11, which
says:
"The time is coming when I will send famine on the land. People
will be hungry, but not for bread; they will be thirsty, but not for
water. They will hunger and thirst for a message from the Lord" (TEV)
.
The sermon was received very well despite a brief interruption due to
heavy rains that deafened everyone under the corrugated iron sheet
roof. In appreciation for the message, we were bestowed with many
gifts in the form of food. We received bananas, plantains, sugar
cane, paw paw, avocados and other fruits.
PHANTOM RUNS
Joe won the ten-week phantom race competition this month, posting
some great times throughout the competition. Harro, a local Kenyan
volunteer, came in a close second, missing first place by only a few
points. Harro's best time this month was 10:51 for two miles, which
is phenomenal considering the altitude and conditions of the track we
run on in Kenya. Now that Joe is back in the thin air of Kenya, he
is going to find it much harder to maintain his reputation in the
next round of the competition.
SOME BAD NEWS...
We were saddened by the death of Ross' father, who has been suffering
from cancer for some time now. Ross was able to visit with him just
a few hours before he died, and is presently making funeral
arrangements along with other members of the family.
AUSTRALIAN QUAKERS
Trouble continues to brew amongst Friends, despite our efforts
(reported last month) to be co-operative with them. We took down all
reference to the secret list of grievances that they sent to us (and
our responses) from our web site. However, when reference was made
to this on the Quaker website, Dave was notified privately by the
acting regional meeting (state) clerk that he should not post there
either.
So, at the same time that a request has gone out for the Quaker web
site to be used to publicly dissociate the Society from the Jesus
Christians, they are trying to block the public from hearing the
official list of reasons that were given to us for doing this. We
believe that the list of complaints against us is, in itself,
incompatible with Quaker faith and practice. Obviously we would like
to be able to RESPOND to that list too, but I'm sure most Friends
would be shocked to hear the actual grounds that have been given for
stating categorically that much of what we believe is incompatible
with Quaker faith and practice!
In the meantime, a private investigator, spending a week in Sydney to
dig up dirt on ourselves, was accommodated at Friends House while he
went about his work. Part of his duties took him to an anti-cult
seminar in company with Kate Croft, Ash's mother, who is committed to
stopping Ash from donating a kidney anywhere in the world. This
private investigator (who also happens to be a Quaker) has intimated
that he has sent "thick dossiers" full of juicy dirt about ourselves
to Interpol, the FBI, immigration authorities in several countries,
the media, hospitals, yadda, yadda, yadda.
AND NOW THE GOOD NEWS...
The more people do to fight us, the more they actually end up
promoting us!
In the United Kingdom, it seems that whatever has been said, even by
our enemies, to the media about us being a controversial group, it is
resulting in the media taking even more interest in what we are doing
there. Plans are now underway for Jesus Christians to appear on TWO
MORE reality TV shows besides the dating one that Alf appeared on.
Oh, by the way, be prepared for some humorous surprises about the
woman they chose as Alf's date when that show is broadcast!
CD'S GOING LIKE HOTCAKES
The Australian team distributed all of the first 10,000 "Survivor"
CDs in just a matter of weeks, and now has taken delivery of a second
run of 20,000 more CDs, which is not even expected to last them until
Christmas. They say that the German version of "Survivors" which
also appears on the CD, is especially popular amongst German tourists
in Sydney.
KENYA VOLUNTEERS
We have started having more regular meetings with the board that
oversees our work in Kenya, in the hope of getting more local Quakers
inspired about helping with the work. Most volunteers participating
in the work so far are non-Quakers (and a large percentage have been
coming from overseas), so we hope to adjust the balance through more
promotion within local Friends Churches.
THE READING PROGRAM
After a short retreat for much needed inreach during the school
holidays, the volunteers in Kenya have resumed the reading program in
ten local schools. A few schools have reached their first target,
which is to get ten percent of their students through the entire
program. Each school that has achieved that goal has been awarded
with a lunch party for the teachers and staff. They have until the
end of the year to make that goal. In the new year we will be
selecting ten new schools to help out.
There have been a number of requests from Catholic Schools in the
area for us to take the reading program to them as well, and the
board approved us doing this, which we are hopeful will promote much
goodwill between the two churches, which are the main two
denominations in Western Kenya.
Boni and Andrew, two friends of ours,continue to distribute over
2000 Easy English booksper weekto schools that are not in our area.
BASKETBALL
Joe recently arrived back from the U.S., and we have been finalising
the basketball court at a local school, whereJoe plans to teach the
sport to school children. With another holiday break coming up, we
are considering a special basketball camp as one option for holiday
activities.
A SUCCESSFUL FAITH OUTREACH
Casey, Giddy and Karl went out on a faith outreach to a neighbouring
village for a few days with outstanding success. They had a
wonderful time and learned a lot of good lessons about living by
faith and not relying on visible means of support. On the first day
of their outreach, they were sitting on the side of the road waiting
on God when two women approached them and said that they had seen one
of them in Nairobi (hundreds of miles south of there) and recognised
them. They invited the trio to come and stay with their family for
the duration of their outreach, and now one of the women is assisting
as a volunteer in the community center in Shinyalu.
Volunteers from overseas continue to come through, with a young woman
from South Korea arriving even as we have been typing this newsletter.
CASEY THE PREACHER!
Towards the end of the month, we were invited to preach at a church
in the local forest. Casey delivered a message on Amos8:11, which
says:
"The time is coming when I will send famine on the land. People
will be hungry, but not for bread; they will be thirsty, but not for
water. They will hunger and thirst for a message from the Lord" (TEV)
.
The sermon was received very well despite a brief interruption due to
heavy rains that deafened everyone under the corrugated iron sheet
roof. In appreciation for the message, we were bestowed with many
gifts in the form of food. We received bananas, plantains, sugar
cane, paw paw, avocados and other fruits.
PHANTOM RUNS
Joe won the ten-week phantom race competition this month, posting
some great times throughout the competition. Harro, a local Kenyan
volunteer, came in a close second, missing first place by only a few
points. Harro's best time this month was 10:51 for two miles, which
is phenomenal considering the altitude and conditions of the track we
run on in Kenya. Now that Joe is back in the thin air of Kenya, he
is going to find it much harder to maintain his reputation in the
next round of the competition.
SOME BAD NEWS...
We were saddened by the death of Ross' father, who has been suffering
from cancer for some time now. Ross was able to visit with him just
a few hours before he died, and is presently making funeral
arrangements along with other members of the family.
AUSTRALIAN QUAKERS
Trouble continues to brew amongst Friends, despite our efforts
(reported last month) to be co-operative with them. We took down all
reference to the secret list of grievances that they sent to us (and
our responses) from our web site. However, when reference was made
to this on the Quaker website, Dave was notified privately by the
acting regional meeting (state) clerk that he should not post there
either.
So, at the same time that a request has gone out for the Quaker web
site to be used to publicly dissociate the Society from the Jesus
Christians, they are trying to block the public from hearing the
official list of reasons that were given to us for doing this. We
believe that the list of complaints against us is, in itself,
incompatible with Quaker faith and practice. Obviously we would like
to be able to RESPOND to that list too, but I'm sure most Friends
would be shocked to hear the actual grounds that have been given for
stating categorically that much of what we believe is incompatible
with Quaker faith and practice!
In the meantime, a private investigator, spending a week in Sydney to
dig up dirt on ourselves, was accommodated at Friends House while he
went about his work. Part of his duties took him to an anti-cult
seminar in company with Kate Croft, Ash's mother, who is committed to
stopping Ash from donating a kidney anywhere in the world. This
private investigator (who also happens to be a Quaker) has intimated
that he has sent "thick dossiers" full of juicy dirt about ourselves
to Interpol, the FBI, immigration authorities in several countries,
the media, hospitals, yadda, yadda, yadda.
AND NOW THE GOOD NEWS...
The more people do to fight us, the more they actually end up
promoting us!
In the United Kingdom, it seems that whatever has been said, even by
our enemies, to the media about us being a controversial group, it is
resulting in the media taking even more interest in what we are doing
there. Plans are now underway for Jesus Christians to appear on TWO
MORE reality TV shows besides the dating one that Alf appeared on.
Oh, by the way, be prepared for some humorous surprises about the
woman they chose as Alf's date when that show is broadcast!
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: October 03, 2007 04:25AM
Quote
In the United Kingdom, it seems that whatever has been said, even by
our enemies, to the media about us being a controversial group, it is
resulting in the media taking even more interest in what we are doing
there. Plans are now underway for Jesus Christians to appear on TWO
MORE reality TV shows besides the dating one that Alf appeared on.
Oh, by the way, be prepared for some humorous surprises about the
woman they chose as Alf's date when that show is broadcast!
Reality TV shows, huh? How low can it get? Disgusting.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: October 03, 2007 05:22AM
From [i:b56af7d24b]The Sydney Morning-Herald[/i:b56af7d24b] December 28, 1983. Emphasis added by myself.
[b:b56af7d24b]“Christianity is all about publicity,”[/b:b56af7d24b] says [b:b56af7d24b]David McKay[/b:b56af7d24b], a 39-year-old full-time Christian.
Yesterday morning, a newspaper photographer took pictures while Mr. McKay was arrested for writing religious graffiti in the Devonshire Street tunnel.
A State Rail Authority security patrol arrested Mr. McKay while he was finishing an 18X2 meter mural.
The mural depicts an urban street and has Bible messages, including a sign worn on the T-Shirt of a painted figure which says “Religion Killed Jesus.”
Mr. McKay was arrested as he signed the mural in protesting police laying charges against his 18-year old son [b:b56af7d24b]Kevin[/b:b56af7d24b], and another group member, [b:b56af7d24b]Mr. Robin Dunn, 18.[/b:b56af7d24b] They were held in a police cell for 36 hours from December 17, after scrubbing existing graffiti-much of it obscene-in readiness for the mural.
Later yesterday Mr. McKay was released on police bail and is due to appear in the Central Court of Petty Sessions on January 10.
Yesterday morning Redfern Police also apprehended another member of the Paddington-based group, 22-year-old [b:b56af7d24b]Ross Parry[/b:b56af7d24b]. They put him in Silverwater Jail to serve 10 days for not paying a fine following an earlier arrest.
He had been gluing 124 $1 notes to the pavement at Martin Place with his Christian colleagues.
The group’s other triumph, 10 big black slogans in thought-provoking style such as, “The birds don’t starve-what are you afraid of?” were painted last month on the tunnel walls.
[b:b56af7d24b] “I got tired of writing the news, so I started to make it,” said Mr. McKay, formerly a Broken Hill journalist.
He is the leader of a dozen professional Christians who have been doing free deeds as a practical sign of their beliefs as the journeyed from Rappville, near Casino, several months ago.
Asked what he thought of young members of his group gaining criminal records as a result of their religious jobs, Mr. McKay says: “Jesus was killed for his work.”
“Christianity has always been illegal because it is supporting another government which teaches life is more important than the law,” he said.[/b:b56af7d24b]
The law now says Mr. McKay must pay a fine of up to $400 or spend up to six months in jail for writing a message on the subway wall.
The police have previously charged Mr. McKay in Mildura with wearing a sign without council permission and for burning paper currency to show men should “Trust God, not money.”
The group members say they will not pay their fines. “We’ve done nothing immoral,” says Mr. McKay.
Mr. McKay, a thin, bespectacled man with a thick beard, does not like to pin a name on his group, or call it a separate religion. “We are just Christians dedicated to practical work,” he said.
Mr. Patrick McCarthy, a member of the SRA patrol which arrested Mr. McKay, was sympathetic and described Mr. McKay as “a nice bloke.”
“But you have to draw the line somewhere, even though his mural is probably an improvement,” he said.
[b:b56af7d24b] But if he did it the right way he wouldn’t get the publicity, I suppose,” Mr. McCarthy said.[/b:b56af7d24b]
[b:b56af7d24b]“Christianity is all about publicity,”[/b:b56af7d24b] says [b:b56af7d24b]David McKay[/b:b56af7d24b], a 39-year-old full-time Christian.
Yesterday morning, a newspaper photographer took pictures while Mr. McKay was arrested for writing religious graffiti in the Devonshire Street tunnel.
A State Rail Authority security patrol arrested Mr. McKay while he was finishing an 18X2 meter mural.
The mural depicts an urban street and has Bible messages, including a sign worn on the T-Shirt of a painted figure which says “Religion Killed Jesus.”
Mr. McKay was arrested as he signed the mural in protesting police laying charges against his 18-year old son [b:b56af7d24b]Kevin[/b:b56af7d24b], and another group member, [b:b56af7d24b]Mr. Robin Dunn, 18.[/b:b56af7d24b] They were held in a police cell for 36 hours from December 17, after scrubbing existing graffiti-much of it obscene-in readiness for the mural.
Later yesterday Mr. McKay was released on police bail and is due to appear in the Central Court of Petty Sessions on January 10.
Yesterday morning Redfern Police also apprehended another member of the Paddington-based group, 22-year-old [b:b56af7d24b]Ross Parry[/b:b56af7d24b]. They put him in Silverwater Jail to serve 10 days for not paying a fine following an earlier arrest.
He had been gluing 124 $1 notes to the pavement at Martin Place with his Christian colleagues.
The group’s other triumph, 10 big black slogans in thought-provoking style such as, “The birds don’t starve-what are you afraid of?” were painted last month on the tunnel walls.
[b:b56af7d24b] “I got tired of writing the news, so I started to make it,” said Mr. McKay, formerly a Broken Hill journalist.
He is the leader of a dozen professional Christians who have been doing free deeds as a practical sign of their beliefs as the journeyed from Rappville, near Casino, several months ago.
Asked what he thought of young members of his group gaining criminal records as a result of their religious jobs, Mr. McKay says: “Jesus was killed for his work.”
“Christianity has always been illegal because it is supporting another government which teaches life is more important than the law,” he said.[/b:b56af7d24b]
The law now says Mr. McKay must pay a fine of up to $400 or spend up to six months in jail for writing a message on the subway wall.
The police have previously charged Mr. McKay in Mildura with wearing a sign without council permission and for burning paper currency to show men should “Trust God, not money.”
The group members say they will not pay their fines. “We’ve done nothing immoral,” says Mr. McKay.
Mr. McKay, a thin, bespectacled man with a thick beard, does not like to pin a name on his group, or call it a separate religion. “We are just Christians dedicated to practical work,” he said.
Mr. Patrick McCarthy, a member of the SRA patrol which arrested Mr. McKay, was sympathetic and described Mr. McKay as “a nice bloke.”
“But you have to draw the line somewhere, even though his mural is probably an improvement,” he said.
[b:b56af7d24b] But if he did it the right way he wouldn’t get the publicity, I suppose,” Mr. McCarthy said.[/b:b56af7d24b]
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: October 03, 2007 05:27AM
Same old stuff, different decade. This thing is 24 years old, and here's ol' DM, getting into legal trouble, stirring up controversy, talking of martyrdom, seeking attention like a bratty kid, and generally making a nuisance of himself. 1983. And he sure does love to use that line about not writing about the news but instead making it, huh? It's pretty played out, if you ask me. He uses that on in like every interview he does.
I wish I had a scanner working right now...I'd scan and post these pictures. In one of them DM is wearing a sandwich board. Hilarious! Maybe I'll look into scanning it and will transcribe and post more as I have time. Bye now.
I wish I had a scanner working right now...I'd scan and post these pictures. In one of them DM is wearing a sandwich board. Hilarious! Maybe I'll look into scanning it and will transcribe and post more as I have time. Bye now.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: October 03, 2007 06:09AM
[img:27b90877bb]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa223/zeuszor/syd8.jpg[/img:27b90877bb]
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