Zeusor:

The lists you posted on this message board regarding current and former members of the so-called "Jesus Christians" have been deleted.

People may remain anonymous on this board and posting lists such as you have done will not be permitted.

Don't do it again.

Sometimes Zeusor is a bit over zealous- that's all. I think he realised his mistake, Rick- though I'm glad the postings have gone.
Everyone who is involved or has been involved with the JC's is a victim- or should we say " Survivor" in some way.
There are so many people who have had negative experiences. I'm just pleased that Dave's latest attempts to infiltrate the Quakers have been demolished.
Let's hope that the Freegans catch on pretty soon.
There was an article about Bob? - I think- and another person on the BBC website. Are they JC's too does anyone know?

Nice to see you posting Cait. My prayers and thoughts are with you- as I'm sure are everyone else's.

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private eyes
Whilst I don't agree with the ex members personal details being posted. I do find it interesting that Zeusor has been able to locate about 40 ex members. I believe others, have identified approximately 30 more. So it certaintly puts paid to David's claim that ex member figures are not as high as has been previously claimed on this site.

Hopefully, present members will begin to question why around 70 members left. Were they all bitter and lacking in discipline? Or did they see through the charade? If David found it so easy to purge himself of members who spent so many years working to keep him in the style to which he has grown accustomed. Who will be the next to go? What will he then say about them?

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hello
Sometimes Zeusor is a bit over zealous- that's all. I think he realised his mistake, Rick- though I'm glad the postings have gone.
Everyone who is involved or has been involved with the JC's is a victim- or should we say " Survivor" in some way.
There are so many people who have had negative experiences. I'm just pleased that Dave's latest attempts to infiltrate the Quakers have been demolished.
Let's hope that the Freegans catch on pretty soon.
There was an article about Bob? - I think- and another person on the BBC website. Are they JC's too does anyone know?

Nice to see you posting Cait. My prayers and thoughts are with you- as I'm sure are everyone else's.

That true, I am a tad overzealous at times :-) and I appreciate your understanding, hello. And thank you for the compliment earlier, when you said I am "cool". That is pretty cool, and you are the cool-est.

You know, when I post real aggressively and put out some info like that, it is not so much of a desire to "score points" with anybody or something like that as it is to basically let DM know that we are really on to him and to try and spread the data around as much as possible. When it comes to the issue of "outing" kids though, you are right. It was a mistake for me to have done that and it will not happen again. I should have edited the details of any minors out. I beg your collective pardon.

That being said: Silence equals complicity in my mind. Silence equals (potential) tragedy. I realize that more is going on "behind the scenes" than is discussed here, and futher I myself have spread this sort of data out a lot to medical authorities and various cult-ed and apologetics groups.

This man McKay is a total sicko and public enemy. It's hard to be too subtle in an effort to warn the public about such a monster. It's outrageous to me that he does what he does in people's lives and [i:9405a0a780]it's legal.[/i:9405a0a780] What he does and how he does it is socially destructive and he he seems to damage everybody that comes into his reach. Incredible that he has been up to it for so long, too. Years and years.

To Cait, Sheila, and all the rest: My thoughts and prayers are with you and your families. I hate what DM has done in your lives, and I am basically just a concerned citizen who met these people on the street like six years ago and found them to be so spooky that I have followed them for all this time. I simply hate what he does.

I [i:9405a0a780]do[/i:9405a0a780] mean well and [i:9405a0a780]have[/i:9405a0a780] been a little obsessed with this thing (exposing and stopping the JCs) all summer long. As long as I know that this s**t is going on, and can do anything to put an end to the McKay family madness, then I cannot in good conscience just sit idly by and not try and do something. Just like I knew that there was some pervert child molester in my neighborhood and I knew where he and his family lived lived; I'd let everybody in my neighborhood and extended community know where the guy was and implore them to steer clear. I'd broadcast it as far and wide as possible. To me, this situation is not much different.

Again it was a mistake for me not to have better edited certain details out of those documents and beg your collective pardon and forgiveness. Also, (again) a lot of it was stuff that you could have found or inferred by combing through the forums anyway. And I am not trying to "score points", am am trying to take down a sick maniac by whatever legal means necessary. In this circumstance, I compromised myself ethically in order to further put the squeeze on Fortress McKay. I decided not to stay silent as I had been for the last few weeks but instead to ramp it up a bit, temporarily anyway. My abundance of zeal led to a lapse in judgment in terms of the info I decided to publish but believe me, that ain't even half of what we know about you, McKay.

It won't happen again. And I won't just give it up either. DM is too dangerous.

References to the Jesus Christians making "survival outreaches" is not some apocalyptic preparation for their demise Zueszor. It is simply them doing what they call a "faith" outreach where they live simply, by either accessing donations from those they sell tracts to, or food they glean from bins, and then attributing this to God's provison for them. Personally I think time exposing them would be better spent targetting destructive behavior than to provide them with justifications for their paranoia that they are doing something earth shattering by living simply in a forest somewhere. I know they would be laughing amongst themselves at the reaction they are generating from outsiders, over what is in fact nothing.

Their rhetoric about the "end" approaching is what would be expected from a fundamentalist group that believes Jesus is about to burst through the clouds to take them home. They believe they have to live through "tribulation" and in that context their "survival" outreaches follow certain logic. I have no concerns what so ever about these so called outreaches as they are little more than a short term exercise before they go back to selling books, and living where they normally live. Doing these outreaches supports their beleif that God is on their side and that evil people oppose them.

For the record I also oppose the public compilation and posting of names and details of any current or ex Jesus Christians. There is nothing that can be gained from doing so, and it seems to me to be just a way to promote yourself using the pain others have suffered. Ex members are NOT complicit in Dave McKays destructive actions if they choose to remain anonymous or silent. The amount of inaccuracies the list contained was embarrasing and at the same time supportive of Dave's lies and false accusations (I speak of you posting that Tony had stolen something). Personally I wish you would just shut up Zueszor, and am thankful that Rick has deleted your posts in this regard.

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For the record I also oppose the public compilation and posting of names and details of any current or ex Jesus Christians. There is nothing that can be gained from doing so, and it seems to me to be just a way to promote yourself using the pain others have suffered. Ex members are NOT complicit in Dave McKays destructive actions if they choose to remain anonymous or silent. The amount of inaccuracies the list contained was embarrasing and at the same time supportive of Dave's lies and false accusations (I speak of you posting that Tony had stolen something). Personally I wish you would just shut up Zueszor, and am thankful that Rick has deleted your posts in this regard.

First of all: sorry, I will not shut up; it ain't happenin'. Second, OK, as far as my using this to promote myself: how is that? I have deliberately chosen to NOT be anonymous this whole time, put my neck on the line, traveled the country and put hours into exposing this sick maniac and you tell me that I am only trying to promote myself and to shut up? F**k that.
That is bulls**t. Silence equals death. Say if I knew there was a guy running around town infecting ususpecting partners with HIV and I knew where he was, who his sexual partners had been and all that? Would I just sit still and think to myself, "well, it's none of my business". Hell no.
So why should I let him run around the world injecting his malignant influence everywhere he goes?

Your complacency and cynicism appall me, Apostate. You were so aggressive a year ago when you gave me that data that I later gace to the Long Beach PD, that newsletter that you got in which the trial was announced. What happened?

I am not a self promoter nor some kind of cult paparazzi, I am a guy with a computer who knows the ID and whereabouts of a sick destructive spiritual pervert of a man and a deep concern for the public welfare. Sorry, with respect, I will not shut up.


and hell, it was you that contacted me and kind of got me into this last year in the first place.

zeusor:

Please don't engage in personal attacks and start a flame war here.

Posting lists of group members and former group members will not be allowed.

Again, under no circumstances whatsoever will you be allowed to post any such lists on this board, i.e. adults, minors, ex-members, current members etc.

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zeusor:

Please don't engage in personal attacks and start a flame war here.

Posting lists of group members and former group members will not be allowed.

Again, under no circumstances whatsoever will you be allowed to post any such lists on this board, i.e. adults, minors, ex-members, current members etc.

By no means, RR. Please accept my apologies.

I didn't mean to attack the Apostate, and it is nothing personal, but he did piss me off.

OK, I get it. No list-posting again.

Someone who never made entry on the “list-that-isn’t” (Shades of “Alice in Wonderland”???) but who I think deserves to be nominated for honoury inclusion is “Dassi” who posts regularly on the “Krishnas in Hawaii” forum…..a VERY perceptive lass, who is able to see beyond the simple anger she would have experienced as she grew to realize how she had simply been “used” by yet another of the world’s self-seeking frauds but who has been able nevertheless, to reflect on the whole experiences with particularly discerning insight…..


This is a clipping from one of her recent postings (on p.135)…..


“We were in the cult at different times and witnessed different things, but all left for the same reasons. We all found Chris Butler to be a narcissistic fraud and not a true spiritual master.

Yes, the group can give you a purpose in life, a sense of belonging and acceptance, a new culture, a feeling of complete self righteousness and clarity about everything in life. It is all very seductive for a person suffering from loneliness, in need of attention, and who feels disenfranchised from family and friends. There is camaraderie and good music. But it’s not all genuine. It is not an authentic way to live. It stifles creativity, ambition, philanthropy, financial security, and encourages prejudices not held prior to the cult. You have to measure the harm it does to the individual and their families. Do you really imagine that old Siddha is going to open an old age home for the 70 somethings when they can no longer serve!?

After we left the cult, we all went our different ways. We don’t all agree about our spiritual lives or politics, but we have found common ground and friendship in our past experiences. We don’t agree on the power of mind control or who is ultimately responsible. We don’t agree on how to fight cults or even if fighting or reforming is possible. We don’t even agree about how dangerous the cult is or is not. But we all agree that it is a cult and we are all happy to have left. We all agree that our lives improved the more we distanced ourselves from the sect. We all agree to caution everyone who comes in contact with Chris, SoI, and associates.”


Replace the words “Chris Butler” and "old Siddha" with the entry “David McKay” and the term “SoI” with the abbreviation “JC”…..and I’d be hard pressed to put something better to paper myself.

I may have quoted parts of this previously, but for further edifictation, presented here again....



“For the longest time
I really believed we were all so cool
and beyond all that fanatical and cult stuff.
We were the real deal.
We had the real enlightened dude.

I finding a book on cults in someone's library
when I was in my cult.
I scoffed, but took a look.
I don't remember the author.
I do remember getting really disturbed
because it was hitting the nail on the head
and disturbing my peace,
my enlightenment,
my self righteousness,
my programming.
If true, my guru's an idiot
and I am one too.
I put the book back angrily
and avoided the subject for years.
I could not accept until much later
what a complete self-serving dog
my guru was.”

Dassi Eighth of May 2007

(Does that sound like someone else we all know…???)


I recommend the occasional diversion to one of our “competitors” in order to have a look though her postings. Even if ostensibly there is no connection with David McKay, the underlying truths behind the “issues” ring through with all the clarity of pealing cathedral bells!!


…but yes, aren’t all these demeaning compilations of names and addresses ultimately just disrespectful…….lets not usurp Gods’ jurisdiction here,…..for I note that David (and Chris Butler?) is already directly “listed” in scripture itself, by Christ himself ……..


Mark 13:21-23 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain


21And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

That's really profound Malcolm.

The last few days have really got me thinking about just how silly the Jesus Christians and some of their associates really are.

Correct me if I am wrong. But it appears the Jesus Christians are basically saying the end of the world is nigh, that they are the only ones that have got it right and they are the only ones (one of the only ones?) that are following Jesus teachings.

Then you go over and look at their site and all they seem worried and preoccupied about is responding to what we write. Expressing concern over who we are and what information we may or may not have on them, etc.

It’s hilarious that one person posts something and they assume that is the sum total of the research done on them. It must be their cultic thinking. They forget that the Rick Ross site is not a membership site where everybody agrees with everything everyone says and does. People on this site are also free to act independently and basically collect and share whatever information they want with each other. Some contributors may have more information than others, but may chose to use it more wisely.

We may not always agree with the actions of others, but it’s a democracy and moderators are in place if people cross the line and the system seems to work.

It’s funny though, that there are all these references to trolling for muck, smear campaigns, etc on the Jesus Christians site. Yet all we’ve seen published (so far), is information they themselves have published via various mediums such as the internet and in press articles they have participated in.

What muck is there to find, that Dave is so worried will be exposed, that sees him almost daily writing about on the internet?

He’s obviously worried about harmful information coming out about them. Yet promotes threads like dysfunctional families, where member’s family problems are publicly aired.

Crikey, if they are the world’s best Christians, what have they got to hide? It’s really got me curious. Shouldn’t all their fruits already be on display for the whole world to see?