Why do you consider chick.com to be distortive of the truth ?

Vatican ran crusades against Muslims, Protestants and is making people believe in sacraments.

Chick openly says it's wrong.

So - why ?

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Concerned Oz
The following link is to a Christian Fundamentalist evangelist from the USA who uses comic strips as his tool of conversion trade.
[www.chick.com]

This guy distorts the truth of the mainstream christian churches, especially Catholisism, with a vengence and vendeta. His version of Christianity and its history is "comical" :lol:

Would the group you are trying to research have used this material? - If so, it may give some insight into their beliefs. Hope it helps you narrow down things.
Oz

Dear Pauliztarza,

Thank you for your recent posting although I must have missed something earlier......May I ask who the "you" is that you are adressing in relation to the commments concerning the Chick publications....

I have personally read several of the Chick tracts during the period of my membership of the JesusChristians....(you tend to encounter other "professionals" in the same trade!!)....and tend to agree with "concerned oz", that they have a rather "blinkered" view of the world.....

They do though, at least "honestly" distort the truth though in that they openly discuss their (IMO slightly bizarre) take on the world, wheras David McKay lies outright......He sets out to ensnare the interests others with a denunciation of the "errors" in the mainstream churches and attempts to ride on the coat-tails of Biblical verse, while at one and the same time living out an even more blasphemous denial of Christ in his daily life, than that which he accuses others of.....

(Here I do not refer to the issues of "living by faith" or "not serving mammon", or other scriptures which David uses to attempts to cloak the wolf underneath...but rather "Blessed be the meek...the merciful....the pure in heart...the peacemakers", and the personal qualities that Christ outlined in the Sermon on the Mount.

David of course is none of these in the histrionic prison he has created where he pyschologically torments those who fail to pander to him adequately.....once he is able to render them vulnerable enough to being so treated, by virtue of being unable to imagine an alternative to him...please see the recent postings from Ash and Joe!!)


I generally find Chick too obviously "stupid" to be truly dangerous, whereas (IMO!) David's disguised venom is far more threatining to the spiritual health of those unwittingly exposed to it....

JESUS CHRISTIANS NEWSLETTER #92, SEPTEMBER, 2007


Freegans

As we go to press, Alf has finished his first two dates... with a
glamorous model, who arrived in a limousine to share a few hours with
him raiding bins and preparing a wonderful dinner (which she refused
to eat). There were a lot of protests from the glamour girl, but Alf
is working on overcoming her prejudices through love and patience.
All of this will go to air later this year in the U.K.

Bob and Paul appeared on the BBC 6pm news last month discussing
freeganism and living off the waste of society. To view the article
on the BBC website, which includes a lot of interesting feedback from
the public, click on the following link.

[news.bbc.co.uk]

Alf and Martin were also joined by Reinhard to give interviews with a
regional ITV news crew, the BBC, a British magazine and The Irish
Times.

There is a new article on our website which deals with the issues
that concern freegans. It is called "Freeganism and our Message".
Please check it out, by clicking below:

[cust.idl.net.au]



Quaker Tensions

There was a statewide meeting on Saturday, September 1, of Quakers in
New South Wales, where a motion from the Regional Meeting Ministry
and Oversight Committee was read out and incorporated into the
minutes of that meeting, stating that the teachings of the Jesus
Christians are completely incompatible with Quakerism, and calling
for the removal of all references to Quakers on our website. About
twenty people spoke against the Jesus Christians.

Dave and Cherry expressed their desire to co-operate but said that it
was simply not possible or reasonable to act on the motion as it was
written. It would mean never using the word Quaker, even in the
kindest possible way. They they asked for a more reasonable
compromise from the meeting with regard to what we are allowed to say
on our website.

In the end, Dave and Cherry agreed to remove the area of the forum
dealing with the reasons given by the committee for wanting to
dissociate themselves from the Jesus Christians, and to re-title and
re-word the section of articles now referred to as "The Quaker
Connection" in such a way as to make it clearer that the articles
appearing there are not officially endorsed by Quakers in Australia.


The meeting has said that an inspection will be made of our web site
over the next two months, and they will want a report on whether or
not the alterations meet with their satisfaction. At the same time,
however, they have asked that an official statement be made on all
Quaker web sites in Australia to echo their own, which is that the
teachings of the Jesus Christians are incompatible with the core
values of Quakerism.

Obviously, we do not agree with this, and it remains to be seen what
their next step will be if they succeed in getting the support of
other Friends in such a claim. It seems quite obvious, if that is to
be their official position, that Dave and Cherry will eventually be
asked to choose sides and either leave the Jesus Christians or leave
the Quakers. We do look forward to more specifics about what it is
that they feel is incompatible about the two groups, and we pray that
they will not restrict us from making that list known, as they have
done with their first attempt to say what it is that they
specifically dislike about us.

We have further reports that representatives from the Australian
Yearly Meeting used the FWCC (Friends World Consultative Conference)
Trienniel in Ireland as an opportunity to speak negatively of Jesus
Christians to representatives from Kenya. This too was disappointing.


We were finally able to obtain a copy of the material being
circulated from the Friends Meeting House in Sydney, which includes a
sensationalist tabloid article from London about Jesus Christians
donating kidneys, a letter from Dave's son, Kevin, which denounces
Dave, and an article about narcisistic psychopaths, obviously
intended to be a description of Dave. It is, indeed, a shame that
the meeting has supported this kind of material being circulated
about ourselves at the same time that it is doing what it can to gag
the Jesus Christians from saying anything in response.

Sadly, we feel that these actions are going to be more hurtful to the
good reputation of the Society than anything that we have done.



Kidney Donations

Another one of our members was rejected last week from donating a
kidney in the U.K. simply because he is a Jesus Christian. We have a
growing number of Jesus Christians who are becoming disillusioned
with going through the long, tedious procedure of testing for kidney
donations only to have the executives of various hospitals tell them
at the end of it all that they are not suitable because they belong
to a religious group that actively promotes live organ donations.

But not everything we have to report is bad news. Please read on...



PROJECTS IN KENYA

There has been a welcome influx of international and local volunteers
to help with the work in Kenya. This rush of volunteers came just in
time for the August school holidays, during which we were planning a
number of new projects.

We are grateful for the input of international and local volunteers
who continue coming to the centre to participate in various projects.
We have been greatly encouraged by the positive feedback many of them
have given about the centre and about the meaningful experiences they
have shared with us. At this stage, it looks like the project in
Kenya is quickly achieving a good reputation just through word of
mouth.

Rob and Chris also arrived back in Kenya at the beginning of the
month, having spent some time in Australia and India. As a result of
the increase in personnel, up to 20 full-time volunteers were able to
work together on a variety of projects over the past month, including
computer classes, basic English tutorials, painting of a community
mural, and an Alternatives to Violence workshop.


Computer Classes

The computer classes were a great success with up to 50 teenage
orphans participating. They had attended computer classes in
December, and were now able to practice what they had learned as well
as developing their skills in typing, word processing and using the
internet.


Easy English Tutorials

The basic English tutorials were also successful, seeing up to 100
children participating each day. The tutorials use the Easy English
flashcards to teach some of the schools' struggling students the most
basic and commonly used words in English, through pictures. The kids
loved the combination of learning and play, and were eager for us to
continue teaching them. There were dramatic improvements in their
level of English even just from this short period of intensive
training.


Community Mural

Last month we had organized a drawing competition at five schools
with thousands of entries to choose from. In the end we chose 50 of
the most original pictures and awarded prizes in the form of art
supplies. The pictures were on the themes of five Quaker testimonies:
Integrity, Simplicity, Equality, Community, and Peace.

The winners then came to our volunteer centre to paint a mural with
some of their pictures on them. The children loved painting with us
and were enthusiastic about the end result of their work. Several
local people also expressed their joy at seeing the colourful mural,
which faces the main street of a very busy village market.


AVP Workshop

Toward the end of the month we hosted an Alternatives to Violence
Project (AVP) workshop. A combination of volunteers, church leaders,
teachers and other members of the wider community participated in the
workshop, which lasted three days. The workshop encouraged
participants to consider the causes of violence and conflict, and to
explore ways of transforming negative situations into positive ones.
Those of us who participated were inspired to consider alternate ways
of reacting to situations; and we are keen to host more workshops in
future.


"Survivors" in CD format

The Australian team produced 10,000 copies of a CD version of
Survivors this month, with Cherry telling the story over top of a
sound track which includes music and sound effects. The CD also
includes a wide selection of our rap, folk, and rock music, and other
foreign language reading material.

We were amazed at how quickly the public responded to these CDs. In
the first week, distributors were getting out as many as 250 copies
each in a single day. This is great news for teams which have found
it hard to carry thousands of books around with them when visiting
remote locations. A thousand CDs can be carried comfortably in a
single suitcase, and so the Australian team is already talking about
outreaches to such places as Cairns, Perth, and Darwin.

Now teams in the UK and the US are looking into doing much bigger
print-runs, to meet the expected demand in those areas of the world
too.

Dear Zeusor,

(Hi! How are you?)Thanks for the latest propaganda broadsheet from the merry Bolshevik and his assorted apparatchiks. Not that we would want to poke fun in any way, but I do note a rather discordant tone in the some of the latest postings from Comrade Joe.

Correct me if am mistaken here Zeusor, but it appears that some mindless minor peon (Fran??) has failed to inform all the revolutionary worker cells of the latest edict….that the Glorious Leader of the Revolution and Life President of the Politburo may shortly need to reinvent history (…ummm…yet again!)

(STOP PRESS: David was never deceived by those ignoble Quakers and their miserable querulous quibbling…he ONLY joined out of sheer sympathy for them, in the hope that somehow he might be able to do something for them……For no other reason than the goodness in his soul, he superficially played along with their petty attempts at Christianity in order to somehow be better able to minister to them…..Poor David!....he tried and tried…it near broke his heart, but in the end….their Godlessness put an effort to his ministrations. Amen!)

From what I see in Comrade Joe, he is in grave danger of promoting petit-bourgeois contradictions (pandering to the ideals of the revolution, while simultaneously supporting (a soon to be announced) revisionist organization) that clearly run counter to noble principles of the Revolutionary movement.

I recommend further emphatic indoctrination over the course of six months labor in a communal re-education facility.


In Joes’ words….


Sheila has written to me, trying to educate me on what really happened amongst the quakers hundreds of years ago.


Hi Sheila. It is great that you have taken so much time to research this. But I wonder if you have examined your own spirit and motive in doing so. It's easy for anyone to become racist and religiously bigoted, to the point where we only see the worst in anyone who is of a different skin colour, or who has a different religion. You have taken the time to tell me what you think is wrong with Islam and with Hinduism, and now you are criticising one of the most respected Christian denominations in the world. Why? Is it because you feel that everyone else MUST be proven wrong, in order for you and your own religion to be considered right? There just seem to be so many more serious problems happening right now in our relationship, that might deserve your time and attention more than this one.


Yes, Quakers were involved in slavery for some time, before they condemned the practice uniformally. However, I think it is incorrect to say that their reason for doing so was because they no longer felt it profitable in their area. You should understand that INDIVIDUAL Quakers (such as John Woolman, for example) took outspoken stands against slavery LONG before Quakers as a whole organization outlawed the practice. But, like within any society, radical changes often have to occur over a PERIOD of time, instead of just immediately. I think that you'd be hard-pressed to find an organization that stopped the practice of slavery in America as fast as the Quakers did. 1758 was still more than a hundred years before the Civil War, so if it was unprofitable for Quakers in 1758, why was it still profitable for everyone else a hundred years later?


I think it is particularly unfair of you to suggest that Quakers were raping their slaves and producing white offspring to the point where, in 1758, they were whipping their own children. Do you have some source for that claim? Because I had understood that, even prior to 1758, the Quakers had much higher standards with regard to the treatment of their slaves. I hope that you can see that your overall message here reveals some bitterness that you have, about the slave past in general, and towards the white race in particular. While I am not going to justify the white race as a whole for whatever deeds individual Whites may have done during the time of slavery, neither am I going to condemn "the children" based upon the deeds of "their fathers". It seems like this tendency to tar a whole race with the same brush is what makes racism so evil.


August 30th


Do you mind sharing a little bit more about how it is that you have discovered more of the truth about the Quakers than any website on the internet might be able to teach me? I hope you can see that you are saying (as well as implying) some nasty things about the Quakers (e.g. that they used to rape their slaves, and that John Woolman had some dirty little secrets that contradicted what he said against slavery), and yet the only "authority" you are giving to me as a reference is something that your mother told you. (I kind of think Mary {Sheila's mother} didn't say ANYTHING about the Quakers to you, but that it is just something you are adding to it now because you know that I have been listening to some of the positive things that the Quakers have to say. Do you think I am right?)


August 31st




….do I discern some double-mindedness here??? As the scripture clearly states:

“Ye cannot serve two masters…..No-one can love God and serve David Mckay…”

I also see that Comrade Joe sees fit to "communicate" with his mother from the pyschological security of a forum ("Dysfunctional Families") that from it's very title, sets out to belittle those who try to remain in touch with their families....

(Hmmm.... in similar vein shouldn't we then offer David like opportunity....that is create an appropriately titled forum, on a website of our choosing (...eg..."A parade of charade from the lost and depraved"....?) where he is exclusively permitted to post ,and from where he may be cursorily invited while yet still being "corralled"....)

I know that David needs to perpetually humiliate the parents of those who have mistakenly put their trust in him temporarily because he is personally aware how quickly he could lose his following were they to be given opportunity to communicate privately with their family....hence the ongoing efforts to denigrate the families of current members that through such calumny David may better "isolate" members from any genuine external contact .....but were you always so cowardly, Joe?

Does David (or one of his appointed leaders) "approve" of your postings before they go to print? (....assuming he just doesn't just write them himself and then cavalierly sign off with your name.....as there's obviously nothing you could do to prevent that if he chose to do so,)....


It was my understanding that a confidentiality clause bound both parties (i.e Rheinhardt and your parents)....if you, at David's behest, continue to pester you mother at every opportunity over what she "owes" David, whenever she tries to communicate with you, and persist in discussing the matter in detail publicly....doesn't that mean that any payments that may currently be being made to Rheinhardt, can be legally discontinued??

Why don't you just keep taking about it and talking about it Joe,....on and on, over and over....and lets find out!!


I'm glad to see though that you have retained your familiarity with the Bible and in particular Mark Chap. 5, Joe....you may not be possessed, as you say, in any way similar to the man tormented with the unclean spirit who possessed him in that passage of scripture.....as laughable as that suggestion may be, from those who you formerly associated with in Church, you must understand that it's no end confusing for others, ....when you choose to keep the company of a great herd of swine, who obviously are....

Hi Zeusor,
nice to see you back. I hope you had a good rest. I always enjoy reading the JC's newsletter- it really is good for a laugh! Im so pleased the Quakers have seen through David McKay.
As always I enjoy reading Malcolms posts too. Thanks Malcolm- your wit and clarity often have myself and several others rolling with laughter! :lol:
....Just wondering about the Freeganism references. When I looked at the Irish newspaper article, there was no mention about the fact that the two people being interviewed were JC's.
If this is going to be Dave's new method of getting publicity- now that the kidney's and Quakers situations seem to be falling through- is there something we can do about it? I feel that certain groups should be made aware that these people are a cult. There are lots of other people involved in Freeganism that are wholly reputable- without giving David or his group publicity.

Does anyone have details of the TV Dating show with which Alf from the JC's is involved? Name of show? Production company making it? TV Network broadcasting it? The reason i ask is that it may be possible to get the segment dropped, if the JC's are using it ( however subtly) to generate publicity and aid recruitment. Broadcasters ( and the UK's Broadcasting regulator OFCOM) are wary of this sort of thing. It's the same with the JC's attempts to position cult members as experts on freeganism. Journalists runninig stories on freeganism should be wary that interviewees aren't cult members using the current media hype on this for their own purposes.

Quote
hello
If this is going to be Dave's new method of getting publicity- now that the kidney's and Quakers situations seem to be falling through- is there something we can do about it? I feel that certain groups should be made aware that these people are a cult. There are lots of other people involved in Freeganism that are wholly reputable- without giving David or his group publicity.

I think we will find that freeganism has been the third arrow in the jcs quiver for several years now, and is not so much new, as being the last remaining promise of legitimacy for his teaching.
Any group serious about freeganism should know that in essence Dave's fold practice it : 1. to bring in the publicity, and 2. to help save funds. Their own beliefs come in a poor third. It if really mattered to them, they'd leave his group and devote themselves to not compromising that message and lifestyle.

Quote

If this is going to be Dave's new method of getting publicity- now that the kidney's and Quakers situations seem to be falling through- is there something we can do about it? I feel that certain groups should be made aware that these people are a cult. There are lots of other people involved in Freeganism that are wholly reputable- without giving David or his group publicity.

No problem. All of the relevant contact info is here:

[freegan.info]

Quote

Dear Zeusor,

(Hi! How are you?)Thanks for the latest propaganda broadsheet from the merry Bolshevik and his assorted apparatchiks. Not that we would want to poke fun in any way, but I do note a rather discordant tone in the some of the latest postings from Comrade Joe.

Quote

Hi Zeusor,
nice to see you back. I hope you had a good rest. I always enjoy reading the JC's newsletter- it really is good for a laugh! Im so pleased the Quakers have seen through David McKay.

Thank you; it is good to be back. I was on a kind of sabbatical in a local ashram for a couple of weeks and started school last week as well. After they screwed me in Houston, I decided to take a break from this for a while.

Upon reflection, I have to say that I am gravely concerned about the potential for overt violence from DM and his people. That is to say, violence inwards (against themselves) or outwards (towards their "enemies"). It's (obviously) a very delicate situation, and it's my opinion that DM is becoming more dangerous. He is preparing to use his cult as human shields. Besides, I am sure that somebody else already has contacted the Federal authorities. I am afraid that too much "heat" could make them go deeper underground and cut off any potential dialog. On the other hand, a Federal investigation could potentially yield a lot of evidence against DM and could land him in big-time international legal trouble, therefore putting the group's activities in check, at least in the USA.

I just don't want him to think that the heat is getting to hot and get really crazy. He is beginning to talk of Waco (Branch Davidians) and confrontation.

Quote

"...It seems that the RR hate-mongers are having the same effect on us that they had on the people in Waco... they just make us stick closer together, because we all know that they'll devour any one of us if they can get away with it."

He removed this post from their site shortly after posting it. He posted it on the 20th of June.


And now they are doing "survival outreaches" in the woods. Have you seen this?

[welikejesus.com]

If pushed too far, DM is liable to really lose it and things will turn tragic.
We have to be REALLY careful now.

I have, in conversation with a "cult expert" who shall remain unnamed, heard said expert refer to DM and his group as "small potatoes" and a group barely worth paying attention to. I say screw that. Heaven's Gate, the Branch Davidians, and Luc Jouret were "small potatoes" too, until people dies.

I am telling you, I have a real real bad feeling about this.