Regrettably it was not possible to have all the postings I wanted to contribute to The ABC forum “aired” as the forum closed after only a few days….hence my contribution must alternatively be made here….

Ash asked in one of his postings “What would Jesus have done” (and I, in reply)…..



“Oh Ash I just love these manner of games (The Cryptic Crossword just gives me a headache!)……you’re deliberately posing a rhetorical question as an amusing challenge to your readers aren’t you, where the obvious answer is not in fact the correct answer…

I mean the obvious answer (that you want to hear) is that Christ would have donated one of kidneys, half his liver, a thighful of bone marrow, most of his toenails, a gallon of sperm, etc etc….and thus to imply that only those who do so are “truly” following his example…not that we want to mention any names of course but which community of (self described) Christians churn out organs on demand….

But that’s not all is it Ash…there’s more to what Christ would have done…and you’re just begging your audience to guess….it’s so obvious really that it’s the last thing (that someone like you) might think of, but of course….

Missing half his viscera or not, Jesus would still have had the “balls” to boot David McKay figuratively and literally out of any association he might purport to have with Christian folk…with a big brown sandal planted squarely in the middle of the wrinkled and wizened old derriere in question….that’s of course, what Jesus would have done!

Oh that was fun Ash…I enjoyed that….but look here’s one for you (which should be easy really as I’ve already asked David this and thus he’ll have the numbers readily at hand)…How many times have your parents had members of the JesusChristians stay over at their place in the Blue Mountains, (including David and Cherry on their own?) How often have they, despite their misgivings helped out (say for example Nicks’ recent assistance with the editing of Survivors) with tasks that you’ve needed their assistance in, and for which David has never publicly acknowledged them whatsoever…in order to for David to “approve” the small amount of contact they have had with you over the years…(if you don’t’ care to PRECISELY outline all that they have done here and then give us all some details of how the JC’s have expressed their gratitude as it would simply “reflect poorly on David….perhaps you already really are just full of it, Ash aren’t you!)

Davids’s had his snout in the trough, snorting with delight for years, but now he’s squealing like the pig that he is, because your parents failed to come to the party on cue and be seen to publicly endorse (by misrepresenting their true feelings about the matter to Toronto General Hospital) your operation….


Yep great guy that Jesus….and I hope that perhaps you’ll have the guts to follow him one day Ash instead of prating on, on behalf of some selfish pig that Christ has specifically you instructed you not to cast your pearls before…..

(…and if you stay too much longer in that company you’ll soon enough have no further “pearls” to cast…..)

You could try Channel4.com. Channel 4 aired the documentary.

A theoretical for Ash....

David McKay uses "access" to you to extort your mother not to contribute to this site and to further emotionally blackmail Nick into discontinuing expressing his own opinions of complaint....(of course we are only speaking "theoretically" here....aren't we Ash!)


Irrespective of whether or not you consider their opinions "lies", (an utter irrelevancy) kindly tell us if David's behaviour is ethical......(ummm...so "Jesus" would have done similarly, say...)


(If it is, then can I then contact authorities in Australia and suggest that they access Davids travel records (available through his passport) and compare the expense of that with the income declarations, his wife makes in order that they be able to retain their entitlement to welfare housing provided by the Aust Govt.....that's just as "ethical" I'd think...)

(If it is not, but you remain contentedly within the JesusChristians, what a God-damned hypocrite you've become....)

Some people would say, Dave lives by faith.

Is this...Faith that his wife will continue to be paid a disability pension by the Australian government. Faith that he will continue to receive a carers pension. Faith that the government will provide him with subsidised accomodation. Faith that his followers will sell his publications to support his poor Hindu printer and faith that he will not come under undue scrutiny if he maintains his wife and his bank account at a level acceptable to Centrelink?

Dear Lotusthehandamiden (I did get the spelling right there didn’t I….that’s Lotusthehandmaiden not LotusDavid’shandmaiden, isn’t it?)

Dear Lotus,

I doubt there are many people who would want to defend the entire record of the established Church or of selected Governments, however it would help in your argument that;

“Dave is a great guy who has differencing opinions on doctrines.”

If you could avoid what appear to be gross simplifications, that seem to have the effect of only leaving you prey to whoever is able to cheaply gain your confidences by masquerading behind the issues….your presentation might then come across a little more forcefully…

No doubt the established Church has failed in many ways and secular Governments have not lived up to what they claim to represent…. AND….as bad as they are, David McKay in his small, initimable way is worse….

I imagine you are familiar with Churchills(?) quotes that “Power corrupts…and that absolute power corrupts absolutely” and that “Democracy is a terrible system….the only think worse are the alternatives” in the light of the historical record that:

The Catholic Church took several centuries, the amassed power of millions of followers and the possession of the treasury of Europe, before it managed to produce the “inquistion” (in terms of numbers of deaths…..such wicked practises long predated the killing fields of Spain), whereas David McKay with a minsicule number of adherents, and far, far less temptation to fall prey to, has become as corrupt and pernicious as the established Church ever was, in only a few decades…I infer that he is the worse of the two evils…

Were David McKay to have an iota of the power, “privileged” to have fallen the way of some former Church leaders and (currently) some selected, secular powers, he would have certainly killed as many, or more, in the “name of God”, and taken whatever worldly goods he could have for his own purposes from the faithful, exactly as you shades of now in the organ-harvesting and public whippings he indulges in…..(…(other peoples’s) lives are of course “regrettably” expendable, in the interests of the wider “good” you see…)

(We observe that “ordinary” members of the JC’s live out of vans and scrounge for food from among refuse…while David and Cherry live in a home and enjoy cooked and regular meals from clean ingredients….Hmmm have you seen fit to discuss this somewhat worrying “worldy materialism” of his, with David yet Lotus??....most unbefitting I would have thought given what you have warned us of)

David McKay is PRECISELY as corrupt and self-seeking as the “Churches and Govt” you rail against, WITH the addition that he defrauds people like you, as that assists him perpetuate the swindle he is engaged in….

Hence as you remark I need to fight all that is wicked in the “Churches and the Govt” (the leaven of Herod and of the Pharisees as the scriptures describe we should beware of), and thus I’m speaking out wherever possible against the leaven of Herod and of the Pharisees that David McKay is utterly full of…..

David Mc Kay speaking about me on Wednesday 13 June 2007. Quote: "but I just don't like the idea of his puppets going through my rubbish".

Well David, now you know how others must feel about you encouraging people to go through their rubbish.

Is this just another example of you writing rubbish.

Dear Cinderella,

Your sister would have been pointedly made to feel “guilty” at her “failings” to not have been able to make the grade in the ‘Kingdom of Heaven”. She will be extremely disorientated and unsure if she is actually at fault herself. She will at the same time, probably be a little awkwardly embarrassed about her some of previous behaviour.

If she has retained any of the idealism with which she joined the JesusChristians I would recommend that you encourage her to “lose herself” in some of the pressing issues that continue to befall the world (I personally, became involved in one of the “Green” organizations myself for several years where I found the comradeship and unstinting and unselfish commitment to issues, very therapeutic). The loss of the "companionship" of the other JesusChristians (irrespective of the "costs of keeping that "companionship) makes other relationships seem shallow and superficial by comparison...hence her loneliness....(and she'll think(perhaps accurately) that you just "can't understand"...)

To have told me at that time I left the JesusChristians to simply “forget it” and “ learn to lose my dependency” would have simply told me that YOU didn’t have anything wider worth living for yourself (and couldn’t even conceive of such a thing) hence I’d just consider you someone that I couldn’t truly rely on or entrust with my own thoughts…..

Your sister (if she’s like me) needs something to fill the “vacuum” she’ll be experiencing emotionally and spiritually(possibly for several years to come)…..I’d recommend that you help her rediscover the ideals she has and find genuine people with whom she can share these and live them out….

I left (and returned!) to the JesusChristians before finally being able to leave for good as a result of not being able to overcome the “isolation” of being the “only person” in the world who believed what I did….take her need to express her faith seriously by helping her locate the company of some kind souls who can “reintroduce” her to a world she thought she had abandoned…(I wouldn’t recommend you suggest she try “therapy” of any nature as that’s simply telling her that whatever is deeply important to her, means nothing to you)…..I would reassure her, that you are supportive of whatever beliefs she may still hold, even if you do not choose to live them out as directly as she does.

She is welcome to contact me at malcolmwrest@yahoo.com if she’s is comfortable with that (although there are a number of ex-members here who could be just as helpful as me and who may be more “on hand” than someone situated in Korea….but whatever she's happy with...)

Good luck and God's blessings with this....

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private eyes
You could try Channel4.com. Channel 4 aired the documentary.

Has anybody here seen it?

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ashwyn

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rrmoderator
Rather than being Mr. McKay's sock puppet, wouldn't it be better to walk away from the group and prove that you can act independently?

Give yourself a break for a year.

That is, no contact or communication with any "Jesus Christian," including its notorious leader, for one year.

Do you think you can manage to do that?

The truth is, I don't really want to be YOUR sock puppet either.

I dont think thats what he meant. take time away from the group in general, read the bible for yourself

When I left the group I was involved in, for about the first three months, I didnt go to church, or talk to anyone of the christian faith.


I was lucky that I had a few good people that would answer my questions without propagating their agendas.

Time away from any group like the one you are involved in, is a good thing. If this is a good group of God, then your leaders will have no problem with you taking a holiday.

If there is not good leadership, then it will be a major problem for you to take a holiday, your leaders wont be at all happy with you taking a holiday

Cinderella: sometimes talking it over with someone knowledgable about groups can help: maybe your sister should talk to an exit counselor? There are exit counselors who will do telephone consults, and are very respectful of peoples feelings and religious beliefs.
May help her sort things out.Leaving a group can be hard ( and lonely)
I tend to prefer someone who is not pushing their own religious agenda, though maybe your sister would prefer a bible based counselor.
Good luck
Yasmin