From where I sit, Tony, *I* am the messenger. And we give an account to the Quakers because they support us, which is better than what you did when we supported you.

There is a pattern to Dave's behavior, he doesn't like to answer questions and attempts to control/manipulate discussion.

Dave reminds me of Rael the leader of the Raelians. One publicity stunt after another.

See [www.culteducation.com]

First it's kidney transplants and now it's a mock trial and public flogging.

Very dramatic. Anything to get Dave attention and provide him with a platform.

The group should be called "Dave Christians."

Christians doing anything to feed Dave's needs and ego.

Sad that some Quakers are involved.

Rick, there is a pattern to your behaviour too. (Come to think of it, you could probably find patterns in almost anyone's behaviour.) But your pattern is to see evil in everyone and everything that does not conform to that muck-raking pattern. Sad.

Quote
Dave McKay
From where I sit, Tony, *I* am the messenger. And we give an account to the Quakers because they support us, which is better than what you did when we supported you.

Tell me Dave, do you think the Quakers only provide an account of their expenditure to fellow Quakers, or only to those that support them? Some how I think not. They have nothing to be ashamed of with regard to their source of income. Their transparency removes all doubt as to the motives of the organisation.

Is "support" for you the criteria you demand before there is transparency in your group?

I am sure ENRON would have liked the internal revenue board to be supporting of them before being forced to disclose their expenditure. I guess support in the sense you speak of could translate into a silent complicity between the one doing the investigating and the one being investigated.

I would think if one wanted to be transparent there would be a link to a pdf download of your budget or something like that on your Jesus Christian website. That is what most religious organisations do. Unfortunately it is like pulling hens teeth with you. Why is that?

We now know that the Jesus Christians own a 7 acre property in Kenya, containing a restaurant for the public to eat at. What sort of daily income do you make with that business venture?

You make an income from the sale of Easy English Books, bought from cheap printers.

You own a 4WD, not a cheap vehicle by anyones standards.

You receive financial support from the Quakers towards loaning refugees money for airfares. Where are these refugees now? How many received this loan? Under what conditions is it to be repaid?

You live in a housing trust flat designed for those of low income in Australia.

Cherry receives a disability pension, and you a carers pension.

Your members all spend 6 days a week distributing tracts and books for a "donation" of which you generate a fair bit of income, given the exchange rates in the different countries. The UK is particularly profitable for your group as 1 pound there easily converts to near of 3 aus dollars.

Some [i:ecda59a961]conservative[/i:ecda59a961] maths would indicate that if, lets say, 25 members received $50 /day X 6 days/week, your coffers would increase by $7,500.00 per week. Remember I am dealing with a conservative estimate here, and I have not included the Easy English books or restaurant.

If your members are allowed to spend $6.00/day on food that would be an expenditure of $900.00, leaving $6,600.00. Not a bad income don't you think? Your and Cherry's pensions would be an extra $370.00/week. Rent in your housing trust flat is of course subsidized because you are a "low income" household, as you do not declare any of this income. tsk, tsk.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

You are smart enough to have the 7 acre property in Kenya in someone elses name, though knowing the nature of your control in the community that really matters little.

Hi Tony,

I have to differ with your maths regarding how rich I must be. But more than that, I have to disagree with your honesty. After all, you have been a member of the Jesus Christians for many years, and you know pretty much how things worked. No one was rich then and no one is rich now. If we were a business (or even a registered charity), we would be entitled to claim many thousands of dollars for travel expenses, accommodation when on the road, meals, office staff, phones, stationery, etc. And that's on top of the cost of shipping and storage as well as printing expenses for the books. Ultimately, however, when people (e.g. the authorities) want to establish that there is some kind of financial hanky-panky going on, they just check the suspects assets and living expenses, where there will usually be unexplained expenditure. There is nothing of that sort with regard to the Jesus Christians. So if we are making the incredible amounts of money that you have suggested (Was that $6,000 a week?) we must be doing a very good job of hiding it.

There have been a few minor changes since you lefrt, but mostly changes that have increased my accountability and that have ensured greater equality. But increased accountability does not mean having to ask you permission every time I want to buy a loaf of bread. You are not prepared to give me access to your day to day living expenses, and I'm not prepared to do the same for you or anyone else who has no legal right to that information.

Finally, even if we were to take your calculations seriously, and we were to divide $6,000 a week between 30 members, that gives an average income of $200 a week before any expenses. Can you now tell me how much you get a week, and where you get it from?

Maybe it's time to stop being such a hypocrite and find something better to do with your time.

Quote
Dave McKay

Finally, even if we were to take your calculations seriously, and we were to divide $6,000 a week between 30 members, that gives an average income of $200 a week before any expenses.

Considering I suggested a conservative 25 member figure at a rate of $50/day, your suggested 30 member number at the same rate bumps that end figure up to $300.00/week per person on a conservative $50.00/day rate. Expenses are minimal considering the restrictions on how much members can spend on food on a daily basis.

But taking your $200.00/week income from tract sales, does that $200/week that you and Cherry earn each week reduce your welfare payments? My understanding of Australian welfare payments is that you can earn $125/week before your pensions are impacted. Do you notify the welfare agency of this $200.00/week extra income as they do have a legal right to such information? Or does that fall under the "Honest to whom" teaching?

Hypocrisy is an interesting choice of words Dave. Maybe it is time you started seeing your own hypocrisy in this matter.

Tell ya what to do, Tony. Take all your paperwork and theories on down to Centrelink, and give them your theory about how Cherry and I are making money that we haven't claimed, and see what they say! I'm sure they'll be impressed!

Interesting.

Does this mean that McKay in part lives on the dole?

So you are saying that welfare payments from the "World" (government welfare) is in part how McKay lives rather than working at a regular salaried job or providing labor for hire?

And apparently McKay also subsists through taking in some money donated by Quakers.

Does "Jesus Christians" have the Australian equivalent of nonprofit tax-exempt status as a "charity"?

Extract from JC Newsletter .


'The media has shown some interest in our connections with freeganism,
and Dave and Cherry are being featured in a short film being produced
for the Film and Television School in Sydney. A student newspaper
editor will also be visiting with Dave and Cherry this weekend with an
interest in writing about our style of education through literature.

Dave and Cherry left for Australia after a very full three months of
speaking engagements, teaching Grace, and lots of valuable counsel.
In particular, they have reminded us to keep the vision of what we are
really trying to achieve i.e. to build a community of people who are
living by faith in God, and not just another church structure.

Toward that end, our small army of volunteers and disciples has
continued to grow. We have one new disciple, Rosy, and a lot of new
volunteers. Rosy had been in touch with us for about 9 months.
She is quiet but dedicated and a welcome addition to the team.
There are now about 17 members of the team,
with most of those people being accommodated in our two room mud hut.
The conditions are cosy (to say the least) but spirits and unity are high
and everyone is enjoying the camaraderie of living and working
in close fellowship with so many other young people.'

January Jesus Christian Newsletter 2006[/size:3d6148a5d0]

'Distribution figures for a music CD and an audio version of
"Survivors" in MP3 format are starting to pick up in the Sydney area
as well.

Robin and Christine have been busy laying out new material for our
printer in India. We should have a Swahili translation of
'Survivors' in print within the next month or two, as well as
thousands of sets of huge Easy English flashcards for use in primary
schools in Kenya. Robin has illustrated a third Easy Reader ("God
Has Hands") to go with the first two ("Ten Men in a Tin" and "Bad
Animals"). These should also be available for distribution in Kenya
within the next couple of months.

We have been trying to bridge some of the gaps between Betty and her
parents, with some increasing dialogue as a result. In an effort to
make peace with her parents, we admitted Josh to a private school.
However, her parents are continuing to sue for custody of Josh.
Betty has had several court appearances over that matter.
She is now representing herself in court and is doing a very good job of it.

Debra, who joined the Nairobi team in the middle of last year and
left a few months later has now re-joined. She originally joined
after being severely beaten by her father when he found out she had
an interest in working with us. After leaving us, she lived as a
virtual prisoner of her father for some time, until he gave her
enough freedom to allow a return to fellowship with ourselves. Debra
seems much stronger spiritually from this experience. She has had
contact with some relatives who have apologised for betraying her to
her father as well as for going to the media about her joining us
when the problem arose with Betty's parents last year.'