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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: muppet ()
Date: October 27, 2006 04:08PM

Apostate

You wrote 'Dave once received a substantial loan from a Quaker woman that he only had to pay back if he was able. This may have gone towards that property. I am sure Dave, who is reading this, could tell us.'


What do you mean by a 'loan that does not have to be repaid' ? Do you mean a gift? Why did she bestow it? How substantial ?

Matilda

Thank you for posting so much information. Does the land in Kenya belongs to the Quakers?

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: October 27, 2006 06:06PM

Quote
muppet
Apostate

You wrote 'Dave once received a substantial loan from a Quaker woman that he only had to pay back if he was able. This may have gone towards that property. I am sure Dave, who is reading this, could tell us.'


What do you mean by a 'loan that does not have to be repaid' ? Do you mean a gift? Why did she bestow it? How substantial ?

Matilda

Thank you for posting so much information. Does the land in Kenya belongs to the Quakers?

I only know that it was substantial and given on a "pay it back when you can" basis. She gave it for the work they are doing in Kenya. This info was taken from one of the JC's newsletters.

Regarding the land [b:eb9c6917e5]they[/b:eb9c6917e5] own in Kenya. Here is an excerpt from a communities directory.

[directory.ic.org]

Area: 7.4 acres (3.0 hectares)
(We only own land in Kenya, which is being used as a permaculture experiment as well as accommodation for a team of volunteers who will undertake projects in the larger community, including an anti-litter campaign, and volunteer English teaching in 35 Quaker schools in the immediate vicinity.)... The land in Kenya is presently in the name of two of our longest term members there, [i:eb9c6917e5](ed. Robin and Christine Dunn)[/i:eb9c6917e5] but it may be signed over to a committee in 2009, when we hope to move on to start another such community.)

Number of Residences: 3
(We rent a one-bedroom flat in Sydney, [i:eb9c6917e5](ed Govt. housing trust flat for poor people)[/i:eb9c6917e5] and own land and buildings in Kenya (Takatifu Gardens). The land includes nine separate bedrooms, several outdoor toilets, and a two-room mud hut with an adjoining kitchen. We have a large hall which is being used as a restaurant for the general public as well as a meeting room for ourselves.)

Visitors Accepted
(Visitors are generally expected to participate in all group activities and to stay for a maximum of one week. The Quaker Community in Kenya (Takatifu Gardens) is an exception. Volunteers can stay on indefinitely, as long as they contribute to the work of the community and conform with other disciplines of the community.) [i:eb9c6917e5](ed. in this case that means submitting to being whipped for infractions)[/i:eb9c6917e5]

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: kath ()
Date: October 28, 2006 02:09AM

Do you think the Quakers really know what McKay does and believes? In the UK, the Quakers are quite a respectable organisation.

I find it hard to imagine them knowingly and willingly having much to do with this lot if they knew all the news reports etc.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: October 28, 2006 05:45AM

Quote
kath
Do you think the Quakers really know what McKay does and believes? In the UK, the Quakers are quite a respectable organisation.

I find it hard to imagine them knowingly and willingly having much to do with this lot if they knew all the news reports etc.

They may only know of the work he does with them in Africa. Dave is pretty good at putting on a good front so that he appears respectable to a more conservative organistaion. Judging by how he communicates on their forum he is pretty smooth and polite.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: muppet ()
Date: October 28, 2006 08:36AM

Quote
apostate
Quote
muppet
Apostate

You wrote 'Dave once received a substantial loan from a Quaker woman that he only had to pay back if he was able. This may have gone towards that property. I am sure Dave, who is reading this, could tell us.'


What do you mean by a 'loan that does not have to be repaid' ? Do you mean a gift? Why did she bestow it? How substantial ?

Matilda

Thank you for posting so much information. Does the land in Kenya belongs to the Quakers?

I only know that it was substantial and given on a "pay it back when you can" basis. She gave it for the work they are doing in Kenya. This info was taken from one of the JC's newsletters.

Regarding the land [b:77944a29e7]they[/b:77944a29e7] own in Kenya. Here is an excerpt from a communities directory.

[directory.ic.org]

Area: 7.4 acres (3.0 hectares)
(We only own land in Kenya, which is being used as a permaculture experiment as well as accommodation for a team of volunteers who will undertake projects in the larger community, including an anti-litter campaign, and volunteer English teaching in 35 Quaker schools in the immediate vicinity.)... The land in Kenya is presently in the name of two of our longest term members there, [i:77944a29e7](ed. Robin and Christine Dunn)[/i:77944a29e7] but it may be signed over to a committee in 2009, when we hope to move on to start another such community.)

Number of Residences: 3
(We rent a one-bedroom flat in Sydney, [i:77944a29e7](ed Govt. housing trust flat for poor people)[/i:77944a29e7] and own land and buildings in Kenya (Takatifu Gardens). The land includes nine separate bedrooms, several outdoor toilets, and a two-room mud hut with an adjoining kitchen. We have a large hall which is being used as a restaurant for the general public as well as a meeting room for ourselves.)

Visitors Accepted
(Visitors are generally expected to participate in all group activities and to stay for a maximum of one week. The Quaker Community in Kenya (Takatifu Gardens) is an exception. Volunteers can stay on indefinitely, as long as they contribute to the work of the community and conform with other disciplines of the community.) [i:77944a29e7](ed. in this case that means submitting to being whipped for infractions)[/i:77944a29e7]




Pleese post that newsletter.

What is that about vistors staying ' a maximum of one week' ? You stayed longer than that Apostate !

Someone asked about working conditions way back. Long hours distributing and selling books leads to a strong cash flow into the group.
Perhaps that assisted in the land purchase.

Thanks Apostate.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: October 28, 2006 08:48AM

Quote
muppet
Quote
apostate
Quote
muppet
Apostate

You wrote 'Dave once received a substantial loan from a Quaker woman that he only had to pay back if he was able. This may have gone towards that property. I am sure Dave, who is reading this, could tell us.'


What do you mean by a 'loan that does not have to be repaid' ? Do you mean a gift? Why did she bestow it? How substantial ?

Matilda

Thank you for posting so much information. Does the land in Kenya belongs to the Quakers?

I only know that it was substantial and given on a "pay it back when you can" basis. She gave it for the work they are doing in Kenya. This info was taken from one of the JC's newsletters.

Regarding the land [b:a0a7a78cd1]they[/b:a0a7a78cd1] own in Kenya. Here is an excerpt from a communities directory.

[directory.ic.org]

Area: 7.4 acres (3.0 hectares)
(We only own land in Kenya, which is being used as a permaculture experiment as well as accommodation for a team of volunteers who will undertake projects in the larger community, including an anti-litter campaign, and volunteer English teaching in 35 Quaker schools in the immediate vicinity.)... The land in Kenya is presently in the name of two of our longest term members there, [i:a0a7a78cd1](ed. Robin and Christine Dunn)[/i:a0a7a78cd1] but it may be signed over to a committee in 2009, when we hope to move on to start another such community.)

Number of Residences: 3
(We rent a one-bedroom flat in Sydney, [i:a0a7a78cd1](ed Govt. housing trust flat for poor people)[/i:a0a7a78cd1] and own land and buildings in Kenya (Takatifu Gardens). The land includes nine separate bedrooms, several outdoor toilets, and a two-room mud hut with an adjoining kitchen. We have a large hall which is being used as a restaurant for the general public as well as a meeting room for ourselves.)

Visitors Accepted
(Visitors are generally expected to participate in all group activities and to stay for a maximum of one week. The Quaker Community in Kenya (Takatifu Gardens) is an exception. Volunteers can stay on indefinitely, as long as they contribute to the work of the community and conform with other disciplines of the community.) [i:a0a7a78cd1](ed. in this case that means submitting to being whipped for infractions)[/i:a0a7a78cd1]




Pleese post that newsletter.

What is that about vistors staying ' a maximum of one week' ? You stayed longer than that Apostate !

Someone asked about working conditions way back. Long hours distributing and selling books leads to a strong cash flow into the group.
Perhaps that assisted in the land purchase.

Thanks Apostate.

I no longer have that Newsletter.

The visitor probably refers to the one week trial period they do for potentials. Yes, I stayed longer than that.

I am sure they generated the funds from somewhere. Inheritance, insurance claims, distributing. he has used a variety of sources in the past

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: muppet ()
Date: October 28, 2006 08:55AM

Can you remember when it was issued and we will request it from Dave.

What more can you say on insurance claims?


I know there have been a few large inheritances.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: October 28, 2006 09:27AM

Quote
muppet
Can you remember when it was issued and we will request it from Dave.

What more can you say on insurance claims?


I know there have been a few large inheritances.

It would have been within the last two years. I am sure he would be able to identify it if he wanted to share the information it contained.

RE: insurance claims, one of his members in the past received a payout for an injury. It became a courtcase with his mother trying to block him giving it to the JC's.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: Dave McKay ()
Date: October 28, 2006 10:52AM

You guys have got to be sillier than I thought if you think I am going to go out of my way to provide information for your witch hunt.

But I would suggest that Tony (Apostate) give a bit of information on his own financial relationship with the Jesus Christians. I think he is the only member of the community (along with his wife) ever to be offered a salary (because they said they wanted to help out a needy village in India). But when Tony and his wife were found having a vacation at a resort with the money given to them, we stopped payment.

This is the background of Tony's bitterness against the community.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: October 28, 2006 03:06PM

Quote
Dave McKay
Quote

You guys have got to be sillier than I thought if you think I am going to go out of my way to provide information for your witch hunt.

Dave, your claims that financial accountability to outsiders is a "witch hunt" provides a wealth of information about how you run things in your group. Thank you very much.


Quote

But I would suggest that Tony (Apostate) give a bit of information on his own financial relationship with the Jesus Christians. I think he is the only member of the community (along with his wife) ever to be offered a salary (because they said they wanted to help out a needy village in India). But when Tony and his wife were found having a vacation at a resort with the money given to them, we stopped payment.

This is the background of Tony's bitterness against the community.

Attempting to shoot the messenger is a typical tactic of those who do not like exposure. You obviously have something to hide to employ such tactics and to not be up front with your financial records, as any religious organisation needs to be in order to be seen to be above board and operating transparently. What is it that you fear when questions about finances are asked that you have to label them a "witch hunt"? Do the Quakers require an account of the expenditure of the money they give you? If they do, are they engaged in a witch hunt too?

These are really quite simple questions Dave. Your reaction to them is what causes people to see your ducking and weaving as being something other than open transparency.

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