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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: matilda ()
Date: October 15, 2006 08:55AM


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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: matilda ()
Date: October 15, 2006 05:04PM

[www.anyindian.com]


McKay has published a series of Easy English books and markets them on the internet. Seems that one or two are co written with Kevin McKay.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: matilda ()
Date: October 15, 2006 05:38PM

[www.ccgm.org.au]


Have pasted the whole article for easier viewing here.



IN TROUBLE AGAIN[/size:3f04d421c2]



They first came to our attention during the 1981-82 Christmas season for the literature they were distributing to young people in Perth . We reported on them in June 1985. A group of young people, including a 12-year-old girl from India, walked across the Nullarbor, and were nicknamed the ‘Nullarbor Walkers’. We stated then: ‘We are concerned by the group’s current walk to prove God...if these walkers had been honest in their intentions they would have quietly crossed the Nullarbor without any prior publicity...it has become a publicity stunt to gain sympathy (plus money and provisions) and open the way to further youthful converts…Many Christians naïvely think concern about this little group is all “much ado about nothing” but there have been, and unfortunately probably will be some more, young people whose lives have been disturbed and negatively affected by this small cult. Families have also been disrupted and deeply hurt because of this cult. Small cults can be as damaging to individuals and families as large cults.’

Over the years, the group, led by David McKay, has accumulated a long list of publicity stunts from graffiti on Sydney subway walls to gluing money to pavements, grown men wearing giant nappies, to wearing robes and remaining silent in court. For McKay it seems that ‘publicity is the name of the game’ – all with the purpose of attracting young people to his community with its Biblically distorted teachings and practices.

They gained considerable publicity over their kidney donation activities during 2002-2004, and were even dubbed the ‘Kidney Cult’ by some of the media. Members of McKay’s group lied to medical authorities in order to make their organ donations to total strangers. When asked about the lies of group members to medical authorities, McKay acknowledged that it had happened, but said: ‘I feel that’s their business…Wouldn’t you lie to save someone’s life?’

In June 2000, the group persuaded 16-year old Bobby Kelly, in Romford, Essex, England, to join them and renounce everything. As a result of their persuasion the vulnerable teenager tried to take and give away all his possessions from his room at his grandmother’s home, where he had been staying. She wouldn’t let him do this and he went to stay with the group. Concerns ultimately led to claims of him being ‘kidnapped’ by the group and court orders for him to be produced. The group refused to ‘surrender’ Bobby to the authorities, leading to contempt of court charges. Before he was found, the confused teenager told the BBC in a brief interview: ‘I am very homesick. I miss my mum and my nan and my sister and a lot of other friends a lot, but it says in the Bible that you have to give everything up to work for God.’ He claimed members of the McKay group were the only ones who told the ‘full story’ of the Bible. The boy was eventually located, hiding with a couple of members at a campsite. He was made a ward of the court.

The story caused quite an outcry in Britain. The main ‘McKay missionary’ couple involved were Roland and Susan Gianstefani, originally from Melbourne. They have repeated their activities and troubles, but this time in Kenya, Africa.

In June 2005, Roland Gianstefani was arrested by Kenyan police and charged with the abduction of journalist Betty Waitherero Njoroge, and her seven-year-old son, Joshua. In July Susan Gianstefani was also arrested and charged with the abduction, but immediately released on bail, as was Roland. Betty Njoroge’s father, Fred Njoroge, a wealthy Kenyan, became concerned about changes in his daughter and the fact that she withdrew her son, Joshua, from school. Mother and son went to stay with group members, adding to family concerns and the ultimate abduction charges.

The extremes of McKay’s group led to extreme reactions on the part of relatives and time in prison for Roland Gianstefani, who, according to David McKay, contracted tuberculosis as a result of his imprisonment. The Gianstefanis had to surrender their Australian passports, which were then also cancelled by Australian consular officials. In September, the abduction charges over the disappearance of Betty Njoroge were dropped when she presented her affidavit at the court hearing, claiming she had joined the group voluntarily. Action was still pending late September over a Children’s Court case filed against the Australians by Betty Njoroge’s parents. In addition, the Gianstefanis have been seeking to sue the Kenyan Attorney General for compensation. It may take quite some time, yet, before the issues are resolved for McKay’s group in Kenya.

McKay and his extended family group have used, and been called, various names from: ‘The McKays’, ‘The McKay Family’, ‘Dave & Sharon and the church which is in our home’, ‘Nullarbor Walkers’, ‘Nullarbor Kids’, ‘Medowie Christian Volunteers’, ‘Voices in the Wilderness’, ‘Rappville Christians’, - just ‘Christians’ and over the past few years: ‘Jesus Christians’.

Contents of this site is Copyright 1999 - 2006 CCG Ministries - W.A. van Leen, Director.
All comments & Information requests here: Technical Difficulties ONLY directed here:
Australian Date Format DD/MM/YYYY Used Throughout]





There are a number of very powerful books/ articles about other groups published by family members and exposing the problems. 'In the shadow of the Moons' for example.
Have the McKay children who left the group published anything about the group or are they aware of the terrible suffering it has generated for others ?

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: matilda ()
Date: October 15, 2006 06:45PM

[www.exfamily.org]

[b:5c214c8f27] Here are some reposts from the exfamily board where DM explains that he began as a Family member and shepherd in Australia. MxKay and his wife are both from the US. He does not explain how he came to be in Australia and whether he joined in the US and was part of the great exodus from the US around the time of the RNR or whether he emigrated to Australia first and then got recruited to the COG there [/b:5c214c8f27]


Responses to article:
Jesus Christians - Offshoot of the COG?
by WC

post your response
I just stumbled back onto this website, and I was surprised to notice that I did NOT acknowledge that we had a member who had previously belonged to the ICOC,when I posted in January. She had only joined last year, but she is still with us, and I must apologise for overlooking it.
And yes, I am the member who was once associated with the Family. My wife was never a member, and I spent only a couple of weeks away from her and [u:5c214c8f27]living with the Family more than a quarter of a century ago, before I decided to take advantage of a rule that said one could become a "shepherd" by setting off on their own and getting another disciple or two. I returned to my family, enlisted my children as members, and then proceeded to receive postings from the Family (COGs then) as a shepherd. [/u:5c214c8f27]It always frustrated the Family that they did not have me conveniently under their thumb, and eventually Cherry agreed to leave the church scene if I would leave the Family, and the two of us set off on our own, along with our own children. Thus the Jesus Christians were born.
The similarities between us and the Family are many; but almost none of them relate to sexual matters. We appreciate the idea of more open and frank discussion of issues which deeply concern young people, but our community on the whole tends to be regarded as opposite to the extreme, because we do not believe in divorce, remarriage, homosexuality, adultery, or even kissing and cuddling between engaged couples.
Dave McKay <fold@idl.net.au>
Newcastle, NSW Australia - Nov 29, 2003





One of your members is an ex member of the church of Christ, according to your web site. i doubt anyone is suggesting that you are a breakaway group from ICC. However your literature and teachings suggest you are still heavily influenced by early Berg teachings. What was your name in the children of God?
hannah
- Nov 8, 2003




Dave,,,I have met you and you told me then that you had been a member of the CoG! While it may be true that only one of your members has been involved it's pretty significant don't you think that that member just happens to be the leader of the group. As an offshoot group maybe not but your thinking and operations is definitely influenced by the COG
Abel Mechanic
- Jul 28, 2003


The posts above are from the exfamily.org board and cast light on Dave's membershio of the Family.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: snuggles ()
Date: October 16, 2006 01:12AM

This just makes me so sad that people can't /won't see whats right in front of their noses. If it walks like a duck , quacks like a duck then it probably is a duck.

For a start this Dave cult leader dude was in the COG/TF where he was a leader (Does anyone remember/know what his cult alias was ? )

His arrival in Aus conicides nicely with the RNR which occured within TF.
He has nothing really original to say, just learnt everything from Berg.

Every cult leader wants to replace the new recruits own blood family and despice any contact with family, friends or reality, replacing in the new cult victim a view that is dependant on the leaders fantasies, whims and interpretations with no room to doubt, ask questions etc...

Both Dave and Berg demand shunning i.e limited or no contact and communication with society, yet leech of it at every turn. Believing this nieve generosity, that is consistant in all mankind, is answer to prayer.


Both send money to WS World Services , (although it's not clear if Dave copied Berg and has his own WS or is giving to WS of the COG/TF)

More simularities still,

the fact that Berg beat his new recruits with rods.

They both follow the same timeline and senario of the end of the world being iminent. (carrot on a string technique)

Both see themself as brides of Christ, in TF both sexes from 14 upwords have to imagine themselves as receptacles of jesus' sperm and talk dirty to him.
Dave Mcay says they have to wear rings in a mock up marraige to the Lord.

All cult leaders want complete adoration, they suffer from narrcisism and cultivate egocentic, insecure and manipulative personalities. It's no wonder cults as a group mirror the leader in all these traits.

I was raised in a cult , and know many survivors from many of them. Some find it very embarrasing to speak out and not everyone has the courage, strenght, support, time etc.. But many have and indeed we owe a great deal to them.

But I do wonder if Daves kids will turn around and expose their father as has happened in the moonies and the COG/TF.

The tragedy of Ricky Davitito wanting to kill his mum (Queen Maria aka Karen Zerby) , but settling on a former abusive nanny, shows how the human spirit cannot take systematic abuse forever. Unfortunatly when you play with peoples minds and emotions it can really bite you on the butt. Some cult victims never recover and those deaths and suicides are the responsibility of the cults.

It's important to recognise that you have created an enviroment of harm and hurt people , people who you are suposed to love. It's important to say sorry and really mean it and make the steps to amend the situation and your relationship.

Actions speak louder than words , this has never been more clear than what we see with cults. (who change language and meaning, using simplified concepts etc..)

By their fruits ye shalll know them?????

Well the fruits of COG/ TF have been a generation of abused children who are struggleing to break the cycle and need help recovering from the experince and the many, far reaching conseqenses.

Daves fruits (30 members) are a tiny following who he practically, some would say had to 'kidnap'/dishonest recruiting , brainwash, blackmail and keep isolated.

Can you believe 17 of the 30 have given up their kidneys 'voluntarily' since joining the group. Smells like coercion to me. What next?

A sucsess story he is not , an idiot is what he appears to be.

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: October 18, 2006 06:52AM

Quote
snuggles

Quote

the fact that Berg beat his new recruits with rods.

This is interesting. I did not know that. Dave really is just a "wannabe".


Quote

All cult leaders want complete adoration, they suffer from narrcisism and cultivate egocentic, insecure and manipulative personalities. It's no wonder cults as a group mirror the leader in all these traits.

It is true that Dave always finds a way to turn any issue into being about him. I was just over at his site reading the outcome of the "trial". He managed to turn it into how difficlut it is for leaders.

Quote

But I do wonder if Daves kids will turn around and expose their father as has happened in the moonies and the COG/TF.

Dave would do what he could to destroy their lives further before he let that happen. He would use blackmail that if he goes down, so would they.

Quote

Some cult victims never recover and those deaths and suicides are the responsibility of the cults.

Dave chose to ignore the emotional turmoil one of his sons was going through even though others were telling him how distraught this child was. Dave did not care because obedience to his dictates were more important. He is a cold hard ruthless man when he is crossed or is disobeyed. Those who have experienced this side of him know it only to well

Quote

Can you believe 17 of the 30 have given up their kidneys 'voluntarily' since joining the group. Smells like coercion to me. What next?

Dave likes to quote medical ethics boards as evidence that they are all OK with it. I wonder though if these boards are aware of the closeness of the members living arrangements and the dynamics involved and the peer pressure, as well as the use of Bible verses to back the decision. I would not be surprised if the JC's are simply "doctor shopping" with each doctor giving their ethical opinion in isolation unaware of the percentages involved. It is very telling that new members soon give up a kidney, whereas they would not have done so before hand. The ethics of the situation changes once the whole picture is seen.

Quote

A sucsess story he is not , an idiot is what he appears to be.

He prides himself in his stupidity, i.e. "God has chosen the foolish..."

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: matilda ()
Date: October 20, 2006 03:34AM


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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: October 20, 2006 04:30AM

Thanks for that Matilda. He is good with his wording. i.e. "I was approached" by one of the young male members. Dave is good at covering his backside. I wonder if that member just got through reading Dave's previous sermons about "he who has two should give to those who have none" in relation to kidney donations after looking around at the other 17 members who had their kidney taken off them by biblical manipulation.

The JC community is like Dave's fruit garden, he gets to pick the fruit and give it away, as a results he glories in the credit derived from the sacrifice of others. I find it quite sickening and parasitic.

Here he is offering the freshly picked kidney.

[www.caringbridge.org]

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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: matilda ()
Date: October 20, 2006 04:54AM


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Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: matilda ()
Date: October 22, 2006 10:26PM

Dave McKay
unregistered user
17-Aug-06, 07:12 AM (EST)

7. "RE: a spiritual calling??"
In response to message #5

A spiritual calling? That can mean so many different things to different people. I come from a group (Jesus Christians) which has received some bad press because so many of us (more than half) have donated kidneys to virtual strangers. I know of one member who actually had a calling NOT to donate. Another (and I'll say a bit more about that later) had quite a dramatic 'miracle' that led him to donate. However, most of the people in our community who have donated, more or less did so on the basis of Christian PRINCIPLES, and THEN had some kind of powerful religious experience AFTER either making the decision or going through the surgery. We see it more like the Good Samaritan. He saw a need and then did what he could, after which Jesus said that he had what it took to become part of the 'kingdom of heaven'.



Dave McKay
unregistered user
24-Jul-06, 04:25 AM (EDT)

[www.livingdonorsonline.org]

24. "RE: Sore testicle?"
In response to message #23

Yes, it does seem like the doctors are either uninformed or hiding something. I questioned my surgeon afterwards and he said he had never heard of it. It may be too personal a question to ask, but I would like to know how many of the people writing on this thread had had a vasectomy previously. My son (a surgeon, about to start specialising in vascular surgery) immediately knew that the vessels cut to remove a left kidney also lead to the testicles, and that vasectomies also cut out some of the blood supply to the testicles. He is convinced there is a link between the two and this type of complication.

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