I wonder if John Elway’s contract bonuses for Peyton Manning have provisions for “a non-dual tie?” Just like the coin flip that didn’t flip, it’s unchartered territory.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

I remember back when the message/This Week titled “The Line is Drawn” came out. The young militant loyalists jumped all over it. As you say kBOY, “The idea of hierarchy is just another iteration of duality, where everything is compared, contrasted, evaluated and judged. It then gives rise to levels, degrees and distinctions.” My family began to hate going to church at that time. As you sa
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

changedagain wrote: “What is the hierarchical chain of command, anyway? I was never allowed access to the new organizational chart. My guess: God the Father, Jesus, Holy Spirit, John, Marilyn, Gary, Rick, Silas, Charlie Day... ------------------- Some scholars have suggested the idea of rank comes to us from ancient ancestral observation: The Sun = God the Father
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

I lived in the basement of the Honolulu Church when it was on Young Street on weekends in the early 1970’s. Bill Arnold senior was married to Mary Arnold (Stevens) – JRS’s sister. There were two sons and a daughter. Billy Joe, Rick and Ruth. If I remember correctly, Billy Joe had just graduated from high school and talked a lot about going into some sort of marine/ocean science field. He see
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

The following are names that I thought were part of the Apostolic Company: Fred Bickhart, Bill Arnold, R.D. Cronquist, Vere Thomas, Howard Klein, JRS, Bill Mabey, Harold Williams and perhaps Mel Bailey. Anyway, most are dead and although I loved several of them dearly I find no need to replace these icons from my youth. All that “Authority BS” went to the grave with them and it is actually q
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Related to qualifications for apostles are the qualifications for church membership. If God doesn’t appear to you personally and coerce you into joining a church, then DON’T DO IT.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

The Living Word Fellowship Blog dated January 17, 2016 says there’s a third anointing that will bring revival and fulfillment. Okay. In the meantime, keep paying your tithes, submit and give adulation to the hierarchy. Same old, same old since 1969 when I first went to the church in Salt Lake City.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

It’s the Kingdom of God on wheels! Who would have ever guessed?
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Previously ------ “3.5 billion letter sequence in the human genome.” -------------------- Instead of guilt/blaming mankind for supposedly screwing up in the “Garden of Eden” as do some apostles, why not have the Great Architect tweak one or two letters somewhere in the 3.5 billion sequence and rectify the problem? Avoid the whole nightmare altogether in the name of efficiency.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

“The great hoax foisted by religion has been the infallibility of its doctrines.” “The literal is the enemy of the real.”. It’s crazy to think we’re bound to the Bible as a book of rules, requirements and categories of thought that must be conformed to in order to please the Creator. The Old Testament was most likely redacted by Ezra and the New Testament is a select group of writings ap
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Thank You kBOY. kBOY. There is a book titled “The Gospel of Love” by Michael V Bright. Any connection? The reviews remind me of Joseph Campbell’s, “The Masks of God” series as well as “Who Wrote the Bible” by Richard Elliott Friedman and the theories of an ancient perennial philosophy (love God & your neighbor) surfacing from time to time in human consciousness throughout the religions
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

lily rose. There was a Susie Loebeck (?) from LA who spent some time in Salt Lake City. Is this the same person as Susie (nee Hoctor) Pugh? Thank You.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Two distinct theologies. Put in those terms the delineation is like sunshine from heaven separating the way of thorns from that of lilies, the way of independence and free life from that of being fleeced and subjugated. I suppose I can remove myself from the Hargrave/Miller/Court/Edvalson backed Salt Lake City black list version of shunned, rebellious, blind, contaminating, subversive souls s
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Referencing my three or four personal encounters with John Miller all in Salt Lake City, I wish for the following: To hear him say, “And do not call anyone on earth your father, for One is your father, He who is in heaven,” rather than the over emphasized hierarchical supporting, “You don’t have many fathers” verse which he seemed to cling to. To hear that would be almost shocking and quite the
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Karl Marx -- “Religion is the opium of the people.” ---------------- BFD. It’s good. It’s free. And now that we’re out from under TLWF hammer, it’s better than ever. Get it, got it, good. Merry Christmas to all.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

TheSarge wrote in part: ----- “I was immediately shunned and the 30+ years of relationships, standing shoulder to shoulder in the trenches, and all the years of service were wiped out as though I didn't exist. In just a snap of their fingers.” & “My walk with God has not suffered. But I will never join another church. I was fine without one for a lot of life, and I'm fine wi
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

corboy wrote in part: “Sleeping Where I Fall by Peter Coyote. (Humbly confesses how he egregiously betrayed his mother's trust. Tells how con artists attached themselves to hippie groups and ran guilt trips. Anyone who owned something was made to feel like a criminal in relation to someone (usually the con artist) who had nothing.” [] ------------------- I know that spirit. Now t
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Welcome to the forum TheSarge. Thanks for the information about Bowman. I was surprised at your post because when reading it old memories came crashing through of when Bowman first came to Salt Lake City. He became Salt Lake City’s young people’s hero who was going to destroy the last vestiges of old order religion still lurking in Salt Lake City. I liked Bowman, but I think I made an i
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

kBOY wrote in part: "On a worldwide scale over the last 2000 years, Christianity has much to be embarrassed about, including the almost complete genocide and subjugation of indigenous populations on multiple continents. This is a track record I am THANKFUL to be no longer associated with. I realize this particular forum deals with the damaging effects of TLW, but the apple does not fall
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

kBOY posted in part on November 15, 2015 05:41PM: “Separate out the idea that LOVE needs to be attached to any specific ‘theology’ or group. It requires none. Jesus simply taught LOVE, and walked in it. He promoted no religion, ritual, organization, or group. He made endless attempts to instill this simple attitude in his disciples, who, being trapped in the mindset of Judaism, tried to make i
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

JezTheBelle Wow. Put together very well. And looking at ‘it’ from a distance, it’s no shimmering light (Hotel California that is) but it’s the Twilight Zone. There are current rumors that NetFlix may resurrect the “Lost in Space” series. I think we may have been lost in space ourselves. I went to a class reunion for my high school last week, everybody always catches up on each classma
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

There was a person named Dan in the Salt Lake City church who told me, “If a stranger was to break into my house and start raping my wife, I’m not going to do anything about it because we’re under the commandment to love our enemies.” I was stumped. Then out of the blue came this: “Sure as hell not much of a shepherd, letting wolves devour those under your protection.” Thank you ---- New
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Not to cross out, belittle or besmirch ----- but to discuss further: Being obligated to love and forgive “evil” seems like a suspension of intelligence. Wouldn’t Satan and the cults love to impose this upon the world? It’s a little more palatable to believe the point of love and forgiveness is to get out of the way; i.e. “neutral position////not entrusted.” Then Father God and the angels
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

kBOY: Your post on November 08, 2015 10:13PM is fantastic. I pasted the whole post into my list of freedom verses and statements. [[ whose ‘misdeeds’ were discounted as having no effect on his father/son relationship ]] Wow. Put that way, ninety-five percent of most preaching is a waste since it normally focuses on the congregant’s/believer’s performance and way of life. The cults a
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

kBOY wrote in part: “One must remember the culture of fear upon which this fellowship was based. Holy Jim Canyon was the pivotal moment that set the tone from the beginning. We were instructed to believe in a god that would “kill us for our withdrawal”. I saw, within the last two years, this sentiment being repeated amongst some of the faithful (by those into their 50’s & 60’s) as a clario
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Again, thank you to both the Moderator and changedagain. The Christian Zero Tolerance Policy requiring forgiveness, prayer, no bitterness, no devastation, moving on, carrying it all on your own shoulders and keeping your mouth shut if it’s offensive, outdated, immaterial or whatever is in itself a burden. Blowing with the wind coupled with a prudent, non-liable freedom of speech is providing
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

pbxguy wrote: “I intend to read the posts from time to time. It's like being back in touch with old friends!!! ----------------------- Same for me too. Now to boost all your egos. I so much more enjoy your conversations than hearing President Monson/official dictates by the Mormon Church on nearly every channel and news report here in the land of Zion. Somehow, even when on Yahoo
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Thank you, Moderator.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

kBOY wrote in part: “The JRS-days did not see the ‘oneness=agreement’ dynamic with such a rigid outlook, especially in light of so many outlying churches being pastored by those who had started the church themselves, but the G&M era solidified that thinking lockstep: ‘oneness=agreement’. Disagreement on any level was viewed as a ‘pure atmosphere’ pollutant that was exorcised quickly, with ma
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

kBoy: I extremely appreciate your reference to the “Kingdom of God Within.” The older some of us get, the less motivation there is to go to three or four church services a week. But even more important is the fact that there is no reason under the sun to get jacked around by anything external when one of the greatest concepts ever presented to each individual was for God to live in their own s
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families