Truth Wins, I have written about the spiritual addiction component in these groups many times. I am aware of the "bliss" affect the average person seeks or even experiences for some time. It may even be a lifetime for that matter. But rarely. Eventually what it transforms into is a hardened ego related to the time investment. It is basically hard if not impossible to admit that we ha
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Absurd inquiries? Once you're in such a cult that is the only type of inquiry that exists. Blind following is taking the advice of such a verse to begin with and accepting so-called vedic texts as an authority to begin with. There is little in the way of explaining in this cult and more blind following than any religion I've encountered. There is nothing that qualifies a &q
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The overarching issue is that it's an insane philosophy that asks of its followers to pretend to be a Manjari. And if not that, it asks that you simply keep doing some repetitive activity like chanting, serving some guru or reading some texts in some abstract hope that "all will be revealed". All what will be revealed? What has been revealed to the average devotee after 40 years of
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Beware the mad man who tries to convince those around him that his ideas hold water. Beware the mad man that tries to normalize his views or vilify all other views as lesser than his own. Beware the madman that seeks, demands or positions himself in the line of worship, praise and adoration. Beware the mad man who claims to be be the sole keeper of wisdom. Beware the mad man who leaves behind him
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The bigger these cults get the less culty they feel to unwitting seekers. In many ways they dilute philosophically to a comfortable point where it's just another simple religion that believes in a savior, heaven and hell and salvation.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yes, I agree butler's cruel style was imitated by his followers. Children's feelings were often dismissed as "false ego", self pity, or naive verse were quoted like "from lust comes anger, from anger comes bewilderment etc... Basically insulting people as lusty low creatures. Kids who were chanting japa daily, reading scripture and performing all manner of services. Bu
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The bag on the head happened. I personally witnessed many devotees being openly humiliated at beach gatherings and letters from butler instructed to be read in front of all the devotees demeaning and insulting or excommunication. This was done regularly to the point where many were petrified they would be next. What does anyone stand to gain in making up the paper bag incident? Butler looks plent
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Gralow's account was closed likely due to her needing a break from Twitter or that she violated some rules on there. Lord knows she and the rest of the world needs a fucking break from Twitter. Tulsi Gabbard sure does, She spends half of the time on there spreading misinformation and divisive dribble. Luckily most of the comments on those posts are filled with people who see right through he
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Fohr, Thank you for your support and echo of some of my observations and thoughts over the years. I am happy some connect with my views, but yes, we all must forge our own ideas in the fire of our honesty and rigor in understanding what all this is about.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

One of many Gabbard statements she parrots based on what Butler feeds her to say. Yet once again, shes/he's wrong. Butler used to have his followers fly to the mainland and feign a sickness to get medications for him and vaishnava dasi. That's some low manipulation, I mean pure devotional service. Butler lectures as well as Bhaktivednatas are full of half truths, science sound
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Not sure if any of you have ever read this book: The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes Really a great theory about consciousness. It's obviously just a theory but a bunch of it makes more sense than Butler ever will in a million years. Butler built his guru-ship on nothing more than psedo-science and mumbo-jumbo ideas mixed with mythology. He
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Truth Wins, Who do you feel is attacking you on this forum? There are perspectives and opinions, but that is to be expected. Experiences diverge. Your testimony is as useful as it offers a clear insight into what happened to you and why you felt it was damaging. That is all. As long as that is clearly stated, no matter how many people disagree or find it "out there" it has lit
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

To me SIF was a gateway drug to the other krishna groups, which, while going more in depth philosophically, often created an even more toxic web to get out of. Again this is my personal perspective. I'm here to discuss how and what made me feel that way, but I also may have outgrown my qualms with just butler. I am trying to show it all starts with Butlers flavor of the month and often snowb
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

What is "The air of life raised under the cover of the skull."? The gaudiya path and vaishnava ideology in general is useless blabbering to me. When I hear even a bit of it or sense it in the room my mind screams and my expression sours. Auto response after years of studying them, thier bullshit ideas and practices. There are maybe 10 valuable verses to me in a scripture like git
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Wow what a trppy, horrific story. These guys used intimidating tactics on an already fragile and potentially volatile demographic. Unreal. I know a bunch has been written on AA and organizations that deal with vulnerable minds and how people cam crap and eventually relapse or have psychotic breaks. AA has an abilsmal success rate with addicts and I feel a lot of it is because some of them bec
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thats right. A very observable trait in many gurus and followers. Interesting insight corboy. corboy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "If a person sees themselves as an imperfect, low, > unworthy slave, there is nothing to ever complain > about if life kicks you in the ass repeatedly. Low > expectations, fewer disappointments." &
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I think it's fair to say that we all will likely have to agree to disagree that magic is real. Sadly, but everyone got their thing. The rhetoric of slavery to god/gods devotees runs very deep in the cult. The idea that we will take birth as a fly in stool if the lord wishes is obviously meant as a sign of humility. Acknowledging that god can kick you and you will come back like a dog to h
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I agree. More humbleness, ambiguity and wonder. Both monistic and dualistic schools of western and eastern thought are very well documented, researched and covered in both scholarly texts and within the traditions themselves. As far as differences in how those schools play out in a small group or cult setting, it is not really relevant. Monistic schools, while idealizing monism, obviously
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The History of Politics in Gaudiya Vaishnava Cults and the Road to Tulsi Gabbard. This article is purely to establish political influence within the narrow confines of the Gaudiya Vaishnava sect, of which butler is a member. This basic post was originally touched upon by the Whirlwind a few days back but was deleted for assorted reasons. It is my hope that this will contextualize the ori
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Martians speak Latvian but we're not making a cult out of it.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

There is no errors in this process as there is no right way to practice it. No success is assured but yet success and promise of success is there at every step. All other systems, like law, mathematics, biology etc admit to rational limitations in the process. I.e. realism, humilty. The gaudiya process just equals blame with the practioner never admitting the process is flawed, which any rational
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yes I agree. Obviously, anger, anxiety and depression as well as much frustration, depending on how far down the rabbit hole of the cult you were, can and does arise. Psychological and psychiatric therapy works. For me, it has definitely been additionally therapeutic to deconstruct the cult I was in and figure out what it was about the overall dynamics that kept me in it for so long, attracted
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yes I have been. Obviously anger, anxiety and depression as well as much frustration depending on how far down the rabbit hole of the cult you were can and does arise. Psychological and psychiatric therapy works. For me, it has definitely been additionally therapedic 2 deconstruct the cold I was in and figure out what it was about the overall dynamics that kept me in it for so long, attracted
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Whirlwind, Fair point. I do feel people get involved in such more extreme groups because they are feeling that their life is lacking or that they are going through a rough patch. I do feel that many who get into more heavy cults can often have a background of mental illness. Crazy is the wrong word in as much as we tend not to look at mental illness as being crazy nowadays. All it means is that
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Sorry, what is MLM? I actually do not really comprehend your last post. What does Butler needing a legion of personal servants and 14 page list of rules extorting his followers for money have to do with selling? The hare krishna cults like SIF have no recourse other than to appeal to the mundane selling tactics used by any number of other successful "eastern" yoga groups. No one w
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I think you would find it pretty difficult to get legal representation when using words like "shakti" or "psychic" and "spiritual energy". Here is what I see: 1. You were very much hopeful of becoming famous and well known in your cycling career. The yoga group bolstered that. Presuemably your career and fame did not take off as smoothly as you were led to bel
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

It wasn't hashish to my knowledge. It was marijuana. As far as the source the information comes from, it is a reliable source who was themselves involved in the whole affair. But the information that Patrick bowler was giving Drug Money The Fund Butler, his lifestyle and projects was well-known in the cult even to us boys when we were young and obviously to many of butlers close servants.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Interesting. So this was a Hare Krishna group? How deep did you get into the whole cult? IDd you get initiated, get a new name and really dive into the rituals/practices/scriptures and ideology/philosophy? How long were you in it before you saw through the web of it all? Was it related to ISKCON or some off-shoot or Gaudiya Math? Thanks you for any info. I am sorry you attempted to ki
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Culthuiset wrote: - what was the issue of women leaders in these sangas? Were they mothers (matriarchy), single women (ex-lesbians?) Or were the leaders only men (patriarchy)? Married? They had children? After SIF much of my interaction was with one householder guru and the rest were all sanyasis. Misogyny is built into the Krishna religion by virtue of many quotes by its founders demoniz
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Culthusiast Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote: > ------------------------------------------------------- > > My story mirrors Ian's. I started in butler's > > cult, his gurukula, moved through 4 to 5 others > > gaudiya groups including ISKCON. > > > It takes a lot of faith in the Vedas or the
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"