Well, for the purpose of this discussion, Butler, in his followers minds, could have easily died years ago. If you look at it from a Vaishnava stand point, you had gurus like Puri Maharaj preaching till he was 100+. Many others preach well into their 80s and 90s. Butler has holed himself up in a beachfront villa years ago. That's as dead as it gets for having a personal connection with your
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

This article claims Butler is deceased: If so, this is his amazing legacy. An article on the dangers of hinduttva, featuring a picture of Trump/Modhi, and some choice words from butler's many colorful lectures as well as direct ties to his political pawn, Tusli "Republicrat" Gab-Bard. Holy cow. God does indeed have a sick sense of humor.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Geez, I thought I'd seen it all. Arranged marriages 2.0. Most butler devotee marriages, if they don't end in divorce, are pretty much all within the cult. Tulsi's lasted about a year before she was on to the next one. Citing "the heavy cost of war" as a major issue for things not working out (Wonder if the Pandavas left their wife due to the heavy cost of war?). Yo
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Once one is deep into this cult there are many aspects that are dehumanizing. One of the main things in my experience is actually deeply rooted in the bhajan and general forced mood of humility found in a lot of prayers of the guru's. It is not uncommon to read such texts and see a level of self deprivation that borders on pathological. References to oneself being lower than a work i
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

No one knows nobody no how. Never did never will.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Corboy, Yes, that is the paradox of the relationship with Butler and many other gurus. A sense of fear, oppression, and yet a scriptural backing that dictates unquestionable allegiance, faith and surrender. In many cases at great odds with what any sane person would tolerate. at least for folks on-site and those engaged in direct projects for him. Like the example, DeWatcher gave of poor de
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Must have been around 1996-1998. Several families including the Fergusons (Mahabhagavata Das) and many others were affected. During this time Butler became vocally belligerent and sent many letters and calls through his secretary chastising and reprimanding devotees for essentially wanting to stay spiritually inspired. This has been extensively covered on this forum and similar events.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Padme, There are aspects of what we grew up with (in your case I assume you were born into it, hence heard things and practiced things that had a lasting impact on your psyche and how you relate to the world) that are not doing you any favors. These are a few: 1. You were raised form birth being told that Siddhaswarupanada was your one and only link to god. 2. You were that any number of
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The concept of the moiety, becoming whole only in conjunction with the object of love/affection/desire/focus/meditation and any number of variants on the theme are not new, but rather as old as day. Early myths recognized the paradox of life, the yin and yang structure of macro and micro, of space, time, of being and non-being, of light and darkness, love vs. lust etc. These concepts and varying
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Exactly: For information on risks and side effects, read the SOI package insert, but it is better to ask your doctor or pharmacist.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I hear you DaWatcher. Yes, ayurveda and any number of arts and sciences associated loosely with the Veda and finding its origin in ancient India are absolutely worthy of scientific consideration and review. There is no doubt useful knowledge that results in thousands of years of development. That being said, I am mostly interested in how the cults use this type of stuff as a tie-in to the larger
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Anyone wanna go to a ayurveda course?: Quote: Ayurveda originated in India and is still widely used there. In a list of longevity by country, India ranked 125th. That suggests that the “science of life” hasn’t done a very good job of keeping people alive. But if the Indians see it differently and want to rely on “ancient wisdom” instead of on modern science-based medicine, it’s their
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

For people already struggling with mental health issues or who have a history of trauma, such cults can be even more damaging, Which is really sad considering that it is such people who are most vulnerable and attracted to such groups. Inevitably they build their entire identity and life around the cult only to, naturally, have to face their shortcomings full head when they eventually arise, soon
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I ate mushrooms from cow poop and experienced a shift in consciousness. Temporary. More mind-blowing than any chanting or lectures. will I do it again? Of course not. These things are not functional experiences, at least not for everyone. Same with Krishna consciousness. Harinam Chintamani is a fictional story. We can all write fictional stories about the shifting of consciousness and ambiguou
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The only reason any recent pictures have surfaced of butler is because of the excessive critique on this forum highlighting that in over 20 years no new lecture or image of Butler was featured in any of the websites. Not until last year did the official SIF website feature a recent picture of him. I sent you the DM link to the kitchen list from hell. That a Sanyasi/guru apologizes is simply
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I have the full Butler kitchen rules if anyone ever wants it. It might have also been uploaded to the Kailua Cult FB page. It\’s not 300 pages. It\’s long, but not 300 pages. Lol. The Butler Kitchen Rules Samhita. The boat accident was a cover-up and a tragic accident that was never dealt with properly by SIF. They gave the family like $500 via thier go-fund me page. Fucking ridiculous and dis
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

In less mystical news: Just leaving this here. So-called "Vedic culture" at work: Same Fanatic saying this: And then we have conspiracy nutjob Tulsi Gabbard concerned that the word "women" is somehow vanishing from our daily vocabulary based on an article that actually mentions the words women", as well as "her", "she", "daughter
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thank you Truth Wins. First of all, I want to get out of the way that I am in no way negating anyones mystical experiences, for whatever they are worth and have contributed to your life. The problem with mysticism and the so-called mystical experience is that everyone can claim to have one. This is problematic for a few reasons: 1. No one else can truly relate or testify to your exper
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Frozen Nick91 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Always this hatred on impersonalist. They don't > know their 'enemies' well enough. Most so called > impersonalist do not even call them like that and > they don't discourage people in worshipping at all > -on the example of Shankaracharya and Ramakrishna, > this has been sh
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Whirlwind, I have sent you a message. I am not sure I am able to offer much advice. These are my own ways of extricating from this group while still maintaining a desire to validate that one can have a progressive life outside the confines of this cult. But I am happy to discuss things in private if you feel it is helpful. I can't promise much more than I am openly stating here. These are my
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Whirlwind—Right, it's definitely a great up-sell. For the average narcissistic hipster, this is honey to their ears. Controlling god... oh the possibilities. Wonder if anyone up there could put in a word and make god stop world hunger and suffering in general. But this notion of God being controlled by the love of his devotees is not some modern-day idea. It's actually a foundational
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Well, regardless what Butler's group gave you the impression about, this is the goal of this group. They feel all other rasas are subpar to this relationship with the blue god and it's a focal Prayojana of the teachings. So much so that in his Krishna Samhita writings, Bhaktivinode describes any lesser aim as "ass-like". The rasa of conjugal affection is described as "
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Whirlwind! No, I do not think that Bhaktivedanta or his guru or Bhaktivinode or any of these people were bad. I think they were genuinely desirous of helping people and firmly believed what they believed in. Nonetheless, and this is just my personal realization, I feel that they were largely a product of their time, culture, social-political climate, nationalistic and driven by that age-old desir
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yes, there are many groups out there that have a more authentic flavor and approach to Gaudiya Vaishnavism than SIF. Just be aware, they are still cults. they fundamentally believe the same essential ideas. It's the general teachings and ideas that tend to be the trap and lock followers into unnatural patterns of thinking and relating to themselves and the world around them. In general, thes
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I'm happy I made some sense to you, Whirlwind. It's a charade and there are more meaningful things to do with one's time on this planet. Does that mean one has to abandon a spiritual life or trying to search for deeper meaning and purpose? Of course not, if anything, it frees you up to pursue things that are more authentic to your personal realizations and experiences—not something
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

DaWatcher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote: > ------------------------------------------------------- > >  When you're talking about the Lord in the > heart, > > DaWatcher, are you referring to the 4 armed > blue > > God who is speculated as somehow sitting in the > > heart organ? > > P
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Interesting quotes about being "fat" from the swami: https://vaniquotes.org/wiki/Bhaktisiddhanta_Sarasvati_severely_criticized_his_fat_disciples Ironically, Bhaktivinode was morbidly obese the majority of his life as a Vaishnava. There is a story where Bhalktisiddhanta criticized Bipin Bihari (teacher of Bhaltivinode) for putting his feet on Bhaktivinodes head. He claimed that his fa
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

 When you're talking about the Lord in the heart, DaWatcher, are you referring to the 4 armed blue God who is speculated as somehow sitting in the heart organ? Next to the spirit soul? And when you refer to the scriptures as a method of verification of people's "purity", what specific scriptures are you referring to? Undoubtedly as with all scriptures, you will eventually find
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

?!
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Frozen Nick, Its laziness, blind faith, etc etc. Everyone wants a quick fix/answer/solution—spirituality is largely a farse undertaken by people addicted to cheap and quick fixes to their problems. Unfortunately, while it may work for a little bit when it's fresh and new, like most things in life it loses it's appeal and eventually the devotee finds themselves still needing to deal with
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"