I attempted suicide because of this cult.

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Interesting. So this was a Hare Krishna group?

How deep did you get into the whole cult? IDd you get initiated, get a new name and really dive into the rituals/practices/scriptures and ideology/philosophy?

How long were you in it before you saw through the web of it all?

Was it related to ISKCON or some off-shoot or Gaudiya Math?

Thanks you for any info. I am sorry you attempted to kill yourself. I hope you were able to find more solid ground.

Best,
RFR

Thank You for your interest. Let me know your thoughts.

Langdon

[youtu.be]

I think you would find it pretty difficult to get legal representation when using words like "shakti" or "psychic" and "spiritual energy".

Here is what I see:

1. You were very much hopeful of becoming famous and well known in your cycling career. The yoga group bolstered that. Presuemably your career and fame did not take off as smoothly as you were led to believe.

2. You have a history of mental illness. This is actually the demographic of most spiritual cults. They thrive and exists because of people like you who have had trauma or simply are wired in a way that the mind is causing them anxietly. If you have been to therapy or done cognitive behavioural therapy, then you probably know that things like anxiety and depression are often times simply the way some folks are wired. Medications, regular therapy, journaling and yes, exercise and otherwise keeping to a simple lifestyle of eating well and sleeping well will help in most cases pretty dramatically.

3. Without you explaining exactly what took place: How and in what way your guru controlled your thoughts or behaviour, someone telling you that you will die or commit suicide because of not following some guru's orders is a royal ton of pure shit. So do explain what it was you experienced and felt in terms of so-called control on the part of your guru or senior members of the cult.

4. Hearing voices, seeing abberations in reality or sensing that you lack control over your own actions and thoughts is a medical issue. If that is happening to you or has, there are many reasons why that can be. Not succeeding in a career, loosing a loved one, problems in sexual relationships or intimate relationships or losing money or getting in sever debt all can contribute to a psychotic break and suicdal ideation and attempts.

I am sorry if anything I mentioned is off the mark, but your video and mood suggest all the above to some extent.

A lot of spiritual cults, be that devotional or some sort of enlightenment trap are simply a type of controlled obsession.

Think Beatle-mania or sports fanatics. Some people are just wired to get more of a kick out of those types of obsessive behaviours (which usually means that they need to balance and scale back those obsessions to feel less anxiety or find better ways to channel the emtions surrounding the obsession).

I have good friend for example who goes to his son's basketball games and literally shakes in anticipation, sometimes even cries but definitely gets obsessively excited and goes to every single game. You can say he's a great dad, and he is, but in the end it's a type of addiction that creates a frenzy in his mind. The end result is that while he may experience a type of "high" or heightened emotional state for a few minutes while at the games, he will often fall pretty hard emotionally when the game is lost or there is some perceived injustice.

There are people that are for whatever reason more emotional/sentimental/sensitive and they tend to get a type of "high" when they encounter and deal with those types of scenarios. We all have that one friend who can't get enough of some cheesy sentimental TV show while we can barely stand a few minutes of it. Most of us humans span the gamut. Those who tend towards such spiritual groups come from all walks of life.

There is nothing inherently powerful/energetic or any "shakti" present in a mantra, a certain worship of some particular god or adherence to some guru's rituals, rules and methods.

Calling things by Sanskrit names only serves to create an ambiguity surrounding the actual rational explanation for what is taking place in these cults.

And actuality, what's happening in these groups is really basic human psychology. Things like groupthink, tribalis, trauma bonding and so on are the general mechanisms at work and are well studied.

There's also ample enough evidence and proof that things like mantra chanting and any kind of repetitive ritualistic behaviors as well as things like getting a special initiated name and the general initiation ceremony and process as well as many other so-called yoga practices simply work because of basic science, not some complicated transcendental woo-woo.

The more we acknowledge these cult mechanisms, the more we disempower them. But the more we subscribe to their lingo, the more we are empowering them.

In many ways, it simply boils down to Linguistics and really taking a deep look at what's going on.

In the particular case that you're describing, you had people who were rooting for you. They were also taking advantage of your vulnerability. You say you suffered from anxiety and so on.

It is not uncommon for many people to join spiritual groups and religious organizations when they feel despondent and at wit's end and vulnerable.

Oftentimes these temporary setbacks and states of Mind are easily solved with cognitive behavioral therapy or other types of basic philosophical constructs that allow us to gain a certain level of mindfulness. But there is no need to stay in that type of state perpetually nor is it beneficial.

At a certain point, the "aura" and so-called shakti surrounding the whole thing wears off or starts to be used for abuse of purposes as you've seen.

Basically, there is always going to be someone in these religious organizations who takes advantage of those who are innocent, sincere are vulnerable. That's just simply human nature. There is always going to be a rotten apple somewhere.

The bottom line is to know exactly what's going on. In other words, it's great to be able to enjoy various different Eastern religious practices and philosophies from a sort of traditions if it helps you and becomes a way that you can build up and fortify yourself in the world. At the same time, these things can quickly become the very mechanisms for causing us Stress and Anxiety and unneeded suffering. I have seen it time and again in my own life and the life of others who subscribe to such spiritual Traditions as a go-to cure-all for their problems in life.

People often use these types of groups as a type of psychological security blanket to not actively deal with and taco Real psychological issues that they may be suffering from and are deeply rooted way Beyond The Power of any Mantra or gurus words. These are personal challenges that our best work done with qualified therapists and people who actually study the way the mind works and how the brain and neurons function and the modern world we live in.

Oftentimes, the recipe that these spiritual groups offer is based on a naive and hopeful ideology and idealism that really doesn't have much depth. It may sound like it at face value, but the more you deconstruct it you see that the mechanics at work are actually very simple, which makes sense because they were developed during a time where people were pretty simple.

My parting words would be that unless you show very specific, tangible evidence and proof or wrongdoing on the part of the cult, you will have a hard time getting any legal entity to get involved. If you have a letter, text, recorded call that shows that they threatened you if you did not give them money or cooperate with their dynamics or in some way psychologically trapped you and isolated you (ex-communication, social rejecting by the group, shaming, insults, embarrassment), this will be helpful in building a case. Otherwise, no matter how unfair and shitty it feels to you, there is little to nothing that can be done from a legal standpoint.

My personal feeling is that these groups all need to have waivers and disclaimers that state: If you have any prior diagnoses of mental illness or if you are expecting this group to make you happier or find some meaning or purpose to life, then this is not for you.

Even the best of these cults can at most give you soom tools to try out and work with. For some it is mantras, inspirational chanting or scriptural ideology that has some insight into the mind and human condition etc. But that is all. As soon as you start to feel that the group is asking you to give money, preach for them, proselytize, bring recruits/followers, get initiated, practice odd rituals or justify the words fo the guru or scriptures or their actions that feel off to you, you just leave wit as little fan fare as possible.

To be clear, I do believe that such groups do have a dramatic influence in the lives of their adherents. Absolutely. But I firmly believe and can show that it always boils down to scientifically verifiable mechanisms. The stuff that does not, is more than likely a result of personal mental illness. Things like epilepsy, schizophrenia, nervous system disorders, drugs, brain disorders etc have been responsible for 99.9% of all so-called spiritual revelations and experiences. This does not make god any less real or unreal. That is a subjective opinion that does not change the basic dynamics of the physical world and it's limitations. There is nothing transcendental breaking the laws of nature in this world. So when something appears to be doing so, it is important to question what is actually happening.

Good luck and glad you ran away from this numbnuts group of charlatans. Sooner r later they will be exposed.

Best,
RFR

langlorimer1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank You for your interest. Let me know your
> thoughts.
>
> Langdon
>
> [youtu.be]

No "Hare Krishna" group would be chanting "Om Namah Shivaya." To do so would be in violation of the second of the The Ten Offenses to the Holy Name. Anybody who'd been very involved in a bona fide Hare Krishna group would know that.

Now, I am not calling you a liar, and I am not invalidating your experiences nor your sufferings, langlorimer1. I am merely trying to clarify things here, in order to minimize confusion and for the sake of accuracy.

They may have been chanting the maha-mantra and they may have been worshipping Krishna, but these would not make them a "Hare Krishna" group. There are impersonalist forms of Krishna worship too, you know.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> 2. You have a history of mental illness. This is
> actually the demographic of most spiritual cults.
> They thrive and exists because of people like you
> who have had trauma or simply are wired in a way
> that the mind is causing them anxietly.

That's not true. It's not true that most people who get involved with spiritual and religious cults do so as a means of dealing with, or compensating for some mental illness.

That's true for some people who join certain groups, but as a generality it's not the case. You are insinuating that "crazy people" (my words, not yours) get involved with religious cults and not only is that untrue, it's an offensive proposition. It's offensive because it's based on a stereotype, specifically the stereotype which says that it's "those people" who join cults, since "It could never happen to me. I'm too smart and too psychologically stable to fall for that."

The truth is, that just about anybody could fall prey to some group or charismatic predatory personality, given the right set of circumstances and the degree of isolation imposed upon them. Sometimes, people are predisposed o cult involvement because of how they were raised (the social milieu from which they came) and sometimes people have simply been tricked. Mental illness and emotional instability are only one set of predisposing factors.

Whirlwind,
Fair point. I do feel people get involved in such more extreme groups because they are feeling that their life is lacking or that they are going through a rough patch. I do feel that many who get into more heavy cults can often have a background of mental illness. Crazy is the wrong word in as much as we tend not to look at mental illness as being crazy nowadays. All it means is that the mind is perturbed and unable to see rationally and find balance. In severe cases where there is an organic issue with the brain or nervous system, there is actually ample research and evidence supporting schizophrenics and epileptics having a fanatical religious bent.

Having an existential interest in so called spirituality or spiritual concepts of theistic or philosophical ideas is not a result of mental illness, but often to adhere or come to a so called religious path and develop a type of over-the-top fervor (fanaticism) is symbolic of some mental distrubance. In my observation.

We all know the garden variety devotee that goes to sunday feast, holds a job and chants and reads and has a balanced life style. Then there is those that are sitting around talking about the deities having conversations with them or feeling super "blissed out" when seeing some swami or whatever. That to me borders of psychosis and delusional ideation/thinking.

But yes, it is harsh to suggest that only mentally ill people get involved with cults. Cults often abound in conspiracy theories as well and many people who have mental illness will tend to that type of stuff.

I'm suggesting it is when we are suffering mentally that we are susceptible to joining certain so called spiritual groups. But by no means is it a prerequisite.

Anyone can fall into the trap of such groups. I don't feel it has to do with some hidden shakti or superpower. It's all based on mechanisms of psychological control. And the guru does not have to be evil or have alterior motives to hurt people. Sometimes the dynamics in the cult, the scriptural beliefs and rituals can act as vehicles for changing the way a practitioner observes reality, the external world and what they consider good and evil and proper behaviour.

Many people thrive just fine in cults/religious groups with no real downside or no mental illness.

langlorimer1: Here are two things I have learned in my studies of cults, and in my own recovery from my involvement in one. Please forgive me in advance if I am being overly blunt in my expression. I don't mean any of this in a bad way.

First: a lot of times, when somebody leaves a cult they develop this belief that they'd been in The Evilest Group in the World.

Second (related to the first): A lot of times, this same person develops this belief that they are The Most Traumatized Person Ever, and that nobody can possibly understand and relate to what they just survived.

Neither proposition is true, and both are cognitive distortions. The bottom line is that you were not in The Evilest Group Ever, you are not The Most Traumatized Man Alive, and other people can and do understand, and can relate to, your experiences more than you may believe right now.

Again: I am not trying to invalidate you or your experiences at all. I am trying to let you know that you are not alone, and that your experience is not entirely unique. I've been in your shoes in my own way, and I am pretty sure that RUN_FOREST_RUN has too.

So welcome to the forum. If I can be of some service to you, then please call on me. You are not alone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2022 10:23AM by The Whirlwind.

Yes I have been. Obviously anger, anxiety and depression as well as much frustration depending on how far down the rabbit hole of the cult you were can and does arise.

Psychological and psychiatric therapy works. For me, it has definitely been additionally therapedic 2 deconstruct the cold I was in and figure out what it was about the overall dynamics that kept me in it for so long, attracted my mother, and how such groups function and what parts of the assorted Dynamics ar related to trauma bonding, victimization, control and power plays etc. Basically, trying to see how none of it is some kind of a mystical and transcendental phenomenon, but something that even the most thinking and progressively minded person can fall victim to.

A big part of it is also trying to see what parts of my time in such a group had some kind of Merit or benefit. Maybe there was something that I was able to extract that had value and change the otherwise angry this position I had initially into one of gratitude. But that part is less important to me personally. I've been able to find many other more rational methods to achieve greater peace and Harmony in my life than I ever experienced in the cult that I was in.

I personally never thought I was the most traumatized person in the world nor that the coat that I was in was the most evil group in the world. But I can Echo the emotion I was feeling a general sense of Injustice and being Hoodwinked. I do feel that some groups, especially ones that have a large following or get involved in politics and other mainstream activities, can have deeper ramifications as they are essentially morohig into a religion. Which is not necessarily bad but we have plenty of those, lol.

A side observation: in my journey I suffered from very bad anxiety and depression. Mostly debilitating anxiety for years. The tendency was to always turn to the cult ideology to cope. It's what I knew. But in turn I found my anxiety eventually increased. It was a cycle. I found it imperative to divorce my thinking and processing of the world through tge lense of the Cults rhetoric. And when I did that, the anxiety vanished.

The cult was like an addiction. It lifted me then dropped me hard and low.

But everyone's different.

langlorimer1: here's another thing I've learned along my journey and in my recovery.

If you've seen one cult, then you've pretty much seen 'em all. The details are different from group to group, of course; some are theistic groups, and some are non-theistic groups. Some are pseudo-therapeutic groups, some are political groups, some are "educational" groups, and some are religious/spiritual groups. What is a constant from group to group (what they all have in common) are the social-psychological dynamics which distinguish a benign, or healthy group from a destructive cult.

Of course, in spiritual/religious groups the psychological dynamics are accelerated to the Nth degree, since we're dealing with things involving this life and the next (as in, a belief in an eternal Hell, being reincarnated in some negative situation, or what have you).

So guess what? You were not a part of "A Cult Like No Other." You were part of a cult that's pretty much just like all the others! You are not alone, and you are not The Most Traumatized Man Alive! Others can relate to what you have been through, and what you are going through now!

Look: I've been real, real close to killing myself too. Trust me: I know how it is.

Please tell me, langlorimer1: when did you exit from the group you came here to talk about? When did you leave it?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2022 04:15AM by The Whirlwind.