Quotezeebrook... Whilst some disdain the idea of an authority in a local church, one has to face the facts that there are those who rule in a local church, those who take responsibility for it to which other members submit. "The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching." (1 Timothy 5:17). So an elder is
Forum: Destructive Churches

Quotezeebrook... Yes Thieme did state believers are to be under a pastor-teacher whether in person or via tapes, but also books. I do not agree with that statement but do believe that believes should be in a church fellowship (cf Hebrews 10:25). However just because Thieme said you should be does not make it so. The believer who does not sit under a pastor-teacher still can learn from the Wor
Forum: Destructive Churches

Quotezeebrook Back to the issue you still have not cited any evidence that Thieme and Thiemeites believe that a human being activates the Holy Spirit. Apart from your preconceived inferences and verbose statements. On the contrary Thieme does say, "The believer understands Bible doctrine (“the things of God”) on a non-meritorious base through the ministry of the Spirit…What causes the huma
Forum: Destructive Churches

To the Forum: Here's another quote in appendix A of Thieme's booklet doctrine of divine essence QuoteThieme We adjust to G-ds infinite, immutable, ceaselessly active authority by adjusting to the right pastorteacher's authority." Notice here Thieme falsely equates his authority with the authority of G-d. CULT. Thieme did not have the sophistication of intelligence to d
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Quotezeebrook Your statement about my supposed “use of flowery academic terms” is laughable. No flowery terms used by me, just straight from the Greek text to you, or from any text book accessible to most believers whom are interested in studying the scriptures. So move on from pejorative remarks (oops, is that a flowery academic term or just English). Oh you want to laugh? Your academic pr
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Quotezeebrook.... That other gifted people did not speak at Berachah could be better answered by others who attended far longer than I did.… Again no snowjob. Again that's what your trying to passoff here. No other people were allowed to speak except Buddy Dano who was Thieme's clone backup speaker. PERIOD. Truthtesty
Forum: Destructive Churches

QuotezeebrookNice snow job. No where have you backed up your statement that Thieme or Thiemeites say that the "Holy Spirit is activated by any human being". Even the quote from “Super Grace Life”, for which you do not provide the reference (its page 63) does not support your statement. Again no Thiemeite I know has stated that. Your further statement “Don't let zeebrook
Forum: Destructive Churches

To the Forum: Quotezeebrook...“the more excellent way” 1 Corinthians 12:31 does not exclude the first part of the verse where Paul calls for believers to “seek the greater gifts” (ta charismata ta meizona). Yes there is a more excellent way but it is not to the exclusion of exercising the gifts noted by Paul. It does indicate that love/charity is more excellent way (higher priority) to be
Forum: Destructive Churches

To the Forum: It's real simple. It's real easy. The proof is right there in the Thieme quote provided. Thieme, Super Grace booklet, under the section "THE ISSUE OF THE SUPER-GRACE LIFE": QuoteThieme "You cannot learn doctrine apart from the one who has the gift of pastor-teacher and therefore the authority. Thieme's cult quote is false. The Holy Spirit c
Forum: Destructive Churches

To the Forum: To zeebrook: To simply this so you can understand answer the questions "What is the Holy Spirit doing when the christian doesn't submit to the Thieme's authority? Is the Holy Spirit capable or not capable (activated or not activated ) of teaching the christian? Is the christian capable or not capable of learning G-d's Word?" The proof is right ther
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To the Forum: John 16:23 "Verily verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Direct prayer to G-d in this dispensation is directly to the Father, in the name of the son and in the power of the Holy Spirit. That is direct access to G-d for any christian at any moment through Jesus by the power of the Spirit. Note that is without a pas
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To the Forum: 1 Cor.12: 29-31: "29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way." "...a more excellent way..." Not I, but Christ Truthtesty
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To the Forum: QuotezeebrookNo Thiemeite I have ever met has ever said that there is only one spiritual gift. Yet another straw man argument set up. No Thiemeite I have ever met relegated other spiritual gifts as non-essential or non-existent. Straw man argument yet again. ...The berating of those who did not come to "class" indicating that alone they could not study the scriptu
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To the Forum: If I am going to be accused of dishonesty, then I first need to know that I was being dishonest. Which I wasn't. Note "probably" not "definitely" and "refer to spiritual gifts". And, if one were to say that Thieme was pastor in the sense of being a shepard in having a personal relationship and knowing people in the congregation and counseling th
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To the Forum: Quotezeebrookthe writer of Hebrews 13:17 did not use peitharcheo because to do so would introduce a redundancy. The writer astutely utilises peitho (present passive imperatitve) as a call to be convinced by "your leaders" (articular present middle participle), literally "the ones leading, guiding" you (plural of the personal pronoun). If the writer had use
Forum: Destructive Churches

Quotezeebrook One is required by Hebrews 13:17 to listen to the leaders, be convinced by them and respond by submitting. This of course comes about as one searches the scriptures and confirms the leader's teaching is correct. Here is a more excellent way. All christians are to submit one unto another as the Holy Spirit dictates the lead of a group of christians by the gifts of the Holy Sp
Forum: Destructive Churches

To the Forum: No strawman, just the facts. Quotezeebrook No one believes that the Holy Spirit is activated by any human being. To make such a statement is to try and use a straw man argument i.e. make it and knock it down. My point being that to corrupt the scriptures by pretend translations to justify a point is what Thieme is often charged with. People who post here should not do the s
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To the Forum: In Hebrews 13:17 What is significant about peitho (peithesthe) is that it is not peitharcheo "to obey one in authority" What is also significant about peitho (peithesthe) is that it is not in the active voice. Peitho is in the passive or middle voice(determined by context). If peitho were in the active voice then the writer would be commanding the readers to activel
Forum: Destructive Churches

To the Forum: In summary, here are few previous links confronting the false authority/submission concept of elders (pastors and teachers etc...), used by those (past and present) who have and will endanger(ed) christians. Truthtesty
Forum: Destructive Churches

To the Forum: There is no need to submit to the corrupt authority of any christian to "activate" the Holy Spirit in either case: one, to let a person "hear" the gospel for the first time, or two, for the christian to "hear" teachings of Holy Spirit. A translation of Hebrews 13:17 more consistent with other scriptures: Be persuaded by those guiding you, and be
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To the Forum: Hebrews 10: 1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3But in those sacrifices the
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To the Forum: A few things here that thiemites have probably not heard before about John 20:17, but were taught by Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer(Thieme's teacher). There were 2 ascensions. Jesus completes the sacrifice by his ascension after Resurrection. The first day of Resurrection was a busy day. Here are a few excerpts from Dr. Chafer's Systematic Theology: vol 4 p. 393 XVII. T
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To the Forum: Also note John 20:17 "17Jesus saith to her, `Be not touching me, for I have not yet ascended unto my Father; and be going on to my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and to your God.'" I submit that the Blood of Jesus(synecdoche) was Resurrected in every sense known and unknown including physically before acsensio
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To the Forum: I also submit that Jesus in His physical Body with literal Blood (and the synecdoche Blood as life after death) was the "first fruits" of the defeating of death(penalty of sin) in the Resurrection. Truthtesty
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To the Forum: Also,the final penalty of sin (death) is destroyed after the 2nd judgement. Which has not occured yet. So "continuing process" of the "Blood of Jesus" as death is not defeated yet. I Cr. 25-26: 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. Truthtesty
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To the Forum: No where does Paul say in I Cr. 15 that: Quotezeebrook... Christ is not raised meaning that there was no payment for sin on the cross, ... Paul's hypothetical concept in I Cr. 15 is not whether or not Jesus died for sins on the Cross, but whether or not resurrection is a reality or not. Note even though Paul is being hypothetical because Jesus died, buried and resurre
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Quotezeebrook The point being that unbelievers submit to the authority of an evangelist e.g Paul or John, to hear the gospel then they must search the scriptures to check the message (as did the Bereans acts 17:11) from which they by faith then believe in Christ for salvation. One would therefore consider that a believer in a fellowship must do the same. Submit to the authority of a Pastor (b
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To the Forum: I posted this in Janurary 2011 and zeebrook has never had a response to it. QuoteTruthtestyTo the Forum: What do the Pauline epistles say in I Corinthians 15:17?: 13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God
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To RecoveringChristian: Thanks for sharing exactly the true effects of Thieme and his goon thiemites. The cult of Thieme is completed when parents act as Thieme's lieutenants at home (or even when an individual is so coerced falsely to attack themself in Thieme's perversion of submission to Thieme's false authority). The false cult doctrine of "Right Pastor" is whe
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Quotehermeneuticawell what just exactly are you 'expecting'? I can tell you what you should expect out of a pastor faithful to the LOrd. And I can certainly tell you what happens when he isn't, namely the spiritual mess that Christendom currently suffers and the loss of freedoms we have experienced. Quite simply, a faithful pastor studies and teaches daily, as in any professio
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