I would agree that the JC's are very unlikely to go as far as a mass suicide or anything like that. It is more the appeal of "thrilling stunts" that are a bit dangerous, of being "radical", they are sort of like the "Jackass" of the religious/cult world. jackass When young members get older, when they get tired of playing games, the wise ones realise it i
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

That's great, Malcolm, How to Leave by Faith
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

don't hassle Grace too much because of one word. Teenage rebellion is often an important part of growing up. My impression is that Grace is still quite young. Cynicism about the "establishment" is an important part of learning to think independantly and in creating reform to change unjust things. Jack Chick has promoted a bizarre theology full of fear and hatred.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Here is an example of how the promise the JC's had was corrupted. A very funny parody of one of their tracts. Someone else posted a link to it before but I was concerned that it has not been widely seen. This parody would not have worked if the JC's had not fallen so far from where they were when the comic was first written. http://bp2.blogger.com/_3vQ872z8QJQ/RoDzEj0ShfI/AAAAAAA
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteTo those people who joined the JC's and left disgruntled it's hard to imagine that you spent so much time in a bad environment. I left with the feeling of a great weight being lifted off my shoulders. I was not "disgruntled", I was disappointed with the group and Dave's leadership. There were good things we did and good times we had but it became incr
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

been away from this stuff for a while great to see the quakers finally getting some backbone took them SO long so many deceptions in Dave's defense of himself how does he really expect that a group with an absolute leader, that believes in violence as punishment for wrongdoers, that believes husbands should rule over wives, that exerts detailed control over followers, could ever possibly
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotethey just make us stick closer together, because we all know that they'll devour any one of us if they can get away with it. Here we see the psychological technique of Dave making his own thoughts apply to everyone as a basic assumption. How does he think we could possibly "devour" any of them? We will and do welcome any sign of independant thinking from JC's, whi
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteDid you know Churches now own Car Parks, Rental Buildings, Pizza Places, Restaurants, Laundrettes, shares in casino's, BIG share portfolio's etc.... I mean wake up and smell the roses.... IF Jesus came back today, which there is just no chance, he would throw up.... Did you know that Dave's JC's now own LAND in Africa?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

yes, it is easy to discern dave's spirit if any jc's are still reading this consider understanding rather than judgement consider softer on others and harder on self consider gentleness rather than harshness try and see it from the other person's perspective consider love rather than law
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quote... and the guttersnipes who promote that approach like Nick and Kate. Another example of Dave's bullying From the online dictionary: gut·ter·snipe (gtr-snp) n. 1. A street urchin. 2. A person of the lowest class How does Ash feel about Dave calling his mum this? Of course it is a "test" of Ash's "pride" and his ability to "forsake
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotepicard2bridge And, I know three Jesus Christians, including Ash, the subject of the documentary. None are close friends, per se, but I would count them as friends. When I first met these people I knew I had little in common with their brand of Christianity, and I wanted to be able to discount them as loony cultists, but it wasn't that easy. They were all really down to earth, friend
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Ever thought how the JC's would rule the world, which after all is their belief and aim? The believe that after the Tribulation, they will all ride flying horses and smite and slaughter millions of people with Jesus. Then they will rule over the survivors from their magical city that comes down from space. Let's pretend for a moment that their dream/nightmare came true. You can
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I must confess to my fellow Rickettes that lately I have been tempted to return to the only group that's fully following Jesus under his anointed apostle, David J McKay. I so miss selling leaflets and books to strangers in car parks who swear at you as you try and disturb their shopping. I miss the technique of putting it into their hands and making them feel they owe me money for it. I
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Matilda, Those articles are chilling and very relevant. Dave is not quite as expert as Hendy-Freegard but the techniques and responses have many similarities. It shows how emotionally vulnerable people can be manipulated no matter how intelligent they are.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Craig I agree it is a wonderful thing to give up possessions for love. It is wonderful to hope and pray for the redemption of ourselves and others. It is wonderful to work for God and Love full time, in faith, but in freedom. We went to work with Dave for Love and God and we thought we had to give up our freedom to do so. I think Friends have a much better idea of the spirit than many
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quakerboy I can understand your feelings about the JC's and Dave Mckay. All of us ex-members thought like you did. In fact, we thought so highly of them that we sold all our possessions, forsaking all and joined them full-time. We have all, at one stage, thought even more highly of them than you do, because we joined them, working hard day and night with them for many years and many of u
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

dawwa, have you see the thread right next/near this one, "Australian cult, anyone recognise this?" It is full of stuff from the many ex members like myself all about Mckay's group. There are many more ex members than members now, and Christine is the only child left who still obeys Dave and is still in the cult.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"This Winter Help Work is also in the deepest sense a Christian work. When I see, as I so often do, poorly clad girls collecting with such infinite patience in order to care for those who are suffering from the cold while they themselves are shivering with cold, then I have the feeling that they are all apostles of a Christianity-- and in truth of a Christianity which can say with greater ri
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

apostate, that was truly great. On another note, It strikes me that one major difference between current JC members and many ex JC's is the attitude to "the System". Basically many of us found the JC's are not a viable alternative to the system. In fact the JC's are a more oppressive and totalitarian system than the general Western democratic pluralistic economi
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

wow, on amazon you can buy a second hand copy for 43 cents! must be huge demand for them.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Dave endlessly makes mythology to make followers believe they are doing wonderful things. The truth is that Dave thinks he's a great writer, but he thinks the publishers of the world and the editors of newspapers fail to recognise his "brilliance". Out of frustration, and seeing how succesful the COG's were at making vulnerable youth into servants, he made his cult and g
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteHe has very cleverly coaxed the others into admitting that even if I were taken totally out of the picture, they would still continue to attack the rest of you because of what we BELIEVE. The group would simply fall apart without Dave anyway. I suppose what you believe is influenced by what you do and when you choose to do different things your beliefs change. I never had much drive to
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Is dave going senile or what???? Now he thinks the whole world reads his forums! And still he persists with the LIE that he "discerned" Apostate was Tony. From their forum: Quote But virtually the whole world knows that Apostate started out as Tony and that he handed it over to Craig about the start of February, at which point Craig started practically boasting that it was him,
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteAnd at the moment I am working with the Jesus Christians to do just that. Why can't you accept that? Why does it always have to be this "anyone but the Jesus Christians" attitude. It doesn't impress me at all. I accept that. I know you are trying to follow God. Thank you for that song quote. It does seem somewhat familiar! "The system" can be any grou
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Glad, what you said reminds me of how even my wife and I felt inhibited from freely sharing our thoughts about leaving even though we both were thinking about it a lot before we did! Fran, your last response makes me sense this discussion is getting to you. Imagine studying to gain skills to help others, then really work at it, with a properly run organisation, you'd be fulfilling Matthe
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thanks for sharing, Fran. I say I am following God much better being outside the group, you say following God means staying in the group. You will never publicly air your disagreements with Dave. You probably don't air them at all, to avoid long painful grievances. I believe the "autonomous communities" thing is not true, just a facade to make people think you are free.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

That was a great summation Boyd, whoops, I meant Tony, whoops, I meant Attila, whoops, I meant Craig, whoops, I meant Apostate secretly masquerading as Kevin or maybe he's really Dave using another IP??? I would be happier myself if every member of the JC's, Dave included, (as long as his posts were limited to 250-500 words a day!) could continue to post here. It's good to have
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The word "bitter" has been bandied around ad nauseum, almost as if us ex JC's were labelled "communist" in the McCarthy era. We are "bitter", but JC's are "concerned". It's convenient "ingroup-outgroup" labelling to deflect valid criticisms. It comes from a theology that says "once you have tasted the waters of salvation an
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteI think it is important to note that all I did in the phone call, was calmly and patiently ask for Dave to be present at a meeting about this website and other concerns wrote Ashwyn How many ex members have memories of Dave interfering with family relationships? How many ex members have memories of being "shepherded" and not allowed to visit family and friends except with a &q
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Pride. The concept of pride is taught as one of the first fundamentals to a new JC member. Taking from a humility tradition in Christianity and other religions, the idea is that we need to break our pride to become a new man/woman. This is an excellent spiritual exercise if it is within a deeply personal relationship with God, completely freely chosen. However, within the context of the gro
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"