I'm sure members join the JC's thinking it's all about serving God, loving others, living by faith, in a democratic community, after being disillusioned with the mainstream system; also for many it's about having a nice tidy response to a percieved oncoming apocalypse. Members often join in a period of emotional vulnerability. Initially it can be exciting to live together
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The interesting thing about whipping and corporal punishment in general is that it causes FEAR as the major emotion. Dave believes we should move away from jails and towards whipping instead. In other words, we should move away from contemplation and rehabilitation and move towards fear. The System has had more Christian influence in getting away from fear and reaction and towards rehabilitati
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

just finished reading that thread too, golly, Dave has so so much egg on his face. I know who Apostate is, and he certainly isn't Tony. Such a reminder of how Dave always makes assumptions and then backs them up with bluff. Such a liar who twists the truth to make himself look good and paints others (like the concerned mother) in the worst possible light and insinuates motivations that
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

thanks zeusor from me too for that declaration; one of the peculiar complexes of Dave is that he seeks the appearance of persecution to validate his beliefs and to cement the unity of the group. This is a major reason for courting sensationalism. (Perhaps they should be renamed christian Sensationalists!) As you have seen, he is quick to imagine impending physical persecution. Unfortunate
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

hmmmm, concerning stuff QuoteBut a better example is paedophilia. Kids are not FORCED to have sex, and yet society says it is wrong. I know, I know, they are not adults. But you see, we each have our restrictions that we think makes it wrong or doesn't make it wrong. And so what we decided to experiment with is just trying to follow the rules as we honestly and humbly think God wrote
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Tucker, one truth is that MOST people who join the JC's eventually leave. The most caring, kind, loving and idealistic ones are the ones that leave. They just get sick of being manipulated and start to see that they could be better people and happier outside the group. I'm glad you've been able to read between the lines and see the truth. I'm glad you can see how they misc
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Once you understand that Dave really is not interested in truth, you see how easy it is for him to present different persona's to different people. He can be quite friendly and reasonable and tolerant of pagans and other people while other times "blasting" others with identical ideas, especially if they threaten group unity. I think this is what makes jinny surprised about our re
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteWe hardly understand OURSELVES just what the trial was aiming to achieve (although we've written a fair bit about it on the "cross" link on our home page), but we're starting to feel kind of good that this is apparently going to be the issue that galvanises and unites our enemies, whether they be raving fundamentalists, atheists, left-wing theologians, mental patients, pr
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

no i'm not with dave, have you read all of my posts? i have relied on the report from Daves own website and have no reason to doubt the general facts. The pictures of reinhard in hospital are pretty clear. i believe the right way to deal with assault is through the legal system not through corporal punishment or substitution. whether a cult is involved or not is immaterial. all should
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

matilda, from what I understand, Reinhard (a JC friend of Joe's) was seriously assaulted by at least one member of his family to the point where he could have died. I agree that the individual(s) responsible should be charged with assault. I understand Joe's family must be frustrated, but serious assault is a terrible thing that cannot be justified. It only drives Joe further away a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Dave, you do not judge me anymore. You don't even know who I am. You could have done so much more good than you have. What will your legacy be? Broken families.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

hopefully this link will let you see the video, quite comprehensive really, and more than a little disturbing, especially when Joe's tearful Dad gets told by zombie Joe, "You mean nothing to me." You may want to watch it twice, the first time it stutters as it loads up into memory, and note there is a dumb ad on some prop 87 before you get to the actual footage. Otherwise d
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

This has been posted on the RR forum before, but it really is an amazing little film that certainly has relevance to us JC survivors. I was pointed to it by a friend.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Glenn, Others have said similar things but just to put in my 2 cents worth; I don't know any ex member who is wallowing in self pity. We are all getting on with our lives, most with young families, and we are all so glad about the decision we took to leave the group. We moved on, enjoying our lives and freedom more and more as we broke free psychologically from Dave and the JC way of t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

matilda go to www.welikejesus.com go to "questions about our teachings and beliefs" go to "question that plagues me"
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

There's some interesting posts on the JC's own forum. Notice the pattern here with Fred's thread where it get's too difficult even for all the JC's together to properly deal with him, so they resort to a childish insult and stop responding. They start out by demanding responses then ignore him when they don't like the responses. They can't handle too much tru
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteThank you for those positive comments, Cultmalleus. Please do try to stay positive in whatever you do. Your welcome. I do. I would hope you might allow your wife to have unconditional contact with her children. That would be a positive step. We can choose to end generational abuse, with our own children.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Don't worry muppet, im still here, been reading the posts; really good to welcome Gladitzover, Snuggles, Freeofdm and others; A lot of us still have "flashbacks" to our time in the group; god it takes a long time to deprogram. It's hard because most of us were and still are very idealistic and this was exploited by Dave for his own ends, with enough stuff that actually was i
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

ooooh, they'll be reading this, now they'll think they're being persecuted; so OF COURSE they must be holy, holy, holy. And so ultra righteous! Wow, they must be truly sold out Jesus disciples now! Praise be! The more headlines come, the more their treasures in heaven! Oooh yes, there'll be a FLOCK of new disciples now, so inspired by public whippings of the elderly!
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I wonder how Dave would go with the headline "Crazy Kidney Cult Whips Arthritic Pensioner" Anyone care to enter a competition for the most way out headline for these crazy kidney cultists? Rules: must be clean, must be true. btw, have downloaded all the "stong meat" articles, thanks apostate
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I wonder how righteous they are feeling now. What's next?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quote Expert view Dr. Robert Jay Lifton -- author, psychiatrist and professor at the City University of New York -- testified during the Patricia Hearst bank-robbery trial as an expert on ''coercive persuasion.'' This is his ''model of thought reform'': Environment control: Communication with those outside the group is limited. Time with the JC
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteFran wrote: I read the article you gave the link for. It had arguments for and against corporal punishment. I don't understand what your point is. Besides you are missing the fact that we are talking about people actually choosing corporal punishment as opposed to incarceration. I presented an article that presented both sides of the argument, but the EVIDENCE is overwhelmingly aga
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

hey zeuszor I understand what you've gone through, it takes time to get rid of the baggage of being in a cult. You should be proud of your courage for being a seeker after truth and to be able to join groups and do things that most people would find so scary, and then to have the courage to leave them too. I am also engaging in counselling (you have to find the right counsellour) who has r
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

zeusor, I can tell you one of the secret teachings is called "Honest to Whom" which is basically a justification for lying to "systemites" who, really, boils down to anyone who is not in their group. Indeed, it is one of the JC's most fundamental teachings that you must learn to lie to protect and defend the group. They start from the idea that Bible smugglers into Comm
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"Are the people posting here trying to say that it would have been more Christian to have turned him over to the police? Are they saying that they would not turn anyone over to the police if they robbed from them? I think not. " I would have thought that a true Christian may ask for restitution of the stolen goods and an apology. In a country where extreme punishments are standard
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

quite right muppet, reposted here to keep it together from the "Jesus Christians" (sic) website "Our decision to return to the whip as a form of punishment is actually based on a desire to shorten the period of punishment at the same time that we sharpen the message about punishment. Whips have been used in just about every culture, as a form of punishment, because they i
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Wasting your life Fran working for Dave is sad. Doesnt it make you frustrated that you want to go out and serve the underpriviledged and downtrodden yet so much of your life is wasted on Dave's sensationalism and attempts to gain media attention? You could achieve so much more for Love and God and Humanity outside of the group. This sensationalism is not "preaching the Gospel".
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

from the "Jesus Christians" (sic) website "Our decision to return to the whip as a form of punishment is actually based on a desire to shorten the period of punishment at the same time that we sharpen the message about punishment. Whips have been used in just about every culture, as a form of punishment, because they inflict a lot of pain without causing much more than supe
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"